The Current State of the US Auto Market

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  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    But for models 2007 on up, the reviews I see on reliability are pretty good.

    They're newer. :shades:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,011
    I've yet to even put a battery in my Cobalt...five years and four months old and 62K miles

    Sorry, made a goof here. 68K miles.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 5,115
    Batteries must be lasting longer in some vehicles. We had to replace the battery in the Vibe last fall and I was astonished to find out it was the original battery. Car is a 2004!
    '24 Kia Sportage PHEV
    '24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,011
    That is outstanding battery life!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    if you keep your factory/whatever battery 5 (4?!) years or more, be prepared for 100% battery failure at some random time, probably overnight.

    odds are good that the failure will be in your own driveway or garage, not in some bad neighborhood at the side of a highway at 3 in the morning.
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 5,115
    Oh, yes, it was complete failure, all right! Fortunately not far from home and mechanic. Definitely not recommended.
    '24 Kia Sportage PHEV
    '24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    if you keep your factory/whatever battery 5 (4?!) years or more, be prepared for 100% battery failure at some random time, probably overnight.

    That's been my experience regardless of make. I replaced the battery in my Suburban and my Expedition right around the 4 year mark. Both completely failed in the summer with no warning (or at least I never noticed the warnings). Also, the original battery in my 01 Nissan Pathfinder died a 3 1/2 years.

    If I keep the Expedition long enough, I think I'll just replace the current battery around the four year mark regardless. $100 battery isn't worth risking a no start condition in the middle of no where.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    My wife's 1994 Suburban ate batteries every 2 years. At around 50K the alternator failed as well. That's the truck that had head gasket fail at 60K also.

    Oh well, what are you gonna do? Live and learn. :)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    My record for a replacement battery is eight years but my cars are older. Seems like newer cars have more electronics that are always on and the gizmos seem less tolerant of marginal batteries.
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 5,115
    That might be why the Vibe's lasted so long. It's a pretty simple car. Nothing fancy on it.
    '24 Kia Sportage PHEV
    '24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Climate has a lot to do with it, also engine design, if say the battery shares a room with a turbo engine. I'd guess that batteries on diesel cars and trucks don't generally last as long either.

    I think automakers will have to go with 24V or 48V systems pretty soon. Also the sheer WEIGHT of the wiring is getting to be an issue.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    It was an '07 low mileage used Mini bought just a couple months ago by a co-worker's MIL. It was 6 yrs old but barely over 40 k miles.

    My Sister just bought a '07 Miata with 31k miles on it. Folding hardtop with auto trans and run flat tires. Nice. She paid $15,800 otd.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,011
    The battery in a Cobalt is under the trunk floor. I've often heard that heat kills more batteries than cold, so that's probably a smart place for it. One of several little pleasant surprises in that cheap little car...along with a hood that holds itself open without a prop rod and a trunk lid without gooseneck hinges that cut into trunk space.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I've often heard that heat kills more batteries than cold...

    That would be consistent as here in CA I very reliably have batteries fail between 3 and 4 years old - multiple makes, US and foreign, and factory new and aftermarket.

    It's gotten to the point where at the first hint of a battery problem, I replace it.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I got 7.5 years out of the battery in my Passat. It's mounted in the cowl under the windshield.

    I've found that unplugging the charging cords for my GPS and phone are important as well. The power ports in the Passat are hot all time and those chargers are pulling just enough to hurt the battery.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    GM is doing rather poorly in this regard except for Chevy. GMC and Buick are close to the bottom of the industry. No surprise, afaic.

    Improvements in brand loyalty were dominated by the import brands. Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Acura and Nissan all achieved loyalty improvements with the launch of all new products (Altima, Accord, ILX, GS, ES, etc.) in late 2011 through the middle of 2012. Furthermore, the improvements from these brands were also slightly inflated when compared to 2011 due to lack of inventory during that time.

    The majority of domestic brands displayed a decrease in owner loyalty when compared to 2011. Chrysler Group is having greater success in conquest of owners from competitive brands rather than in the retention of their existing customers (there is also high migration between inner manufacturer brands, e.g., Chrysler, Dodge). General Motors is seeing heavy losses of its brand owners to Hyundai, Volkswagen and Subaru.

    Even though Ford saw its brand loyalty rate decrease by 1 percentage point vs. 2011; it still continues to be the industry leader at 61.3%. Mercedes-Benz leads the industry from the luxury brand standpoint with loyalty of 58.6%.

    The final brand loyalty rankings for 2012 are listed below
    :

    image
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    '96 Riv has battery under back seat. New in April 2004 battery put in at 88k miles on the day I bought it by seller is still good at 196k miles. 9.3 years, 110k miles. Outdoor car. Car no longer has a/c, though.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    The 2014 Malibu's are priced better than the '10 that I bought. a bigger DI engine and alloy wheels are included now for an only $800 higher MSRP. I bet the $4000 rebate I got is never coming back, though. The new car has a significantly upgraded interior, a larger trunk, more interior room, more attractive tail lights, and a Camaro inspired front hood.

    There were NO 2014 Impalas on the lot.

    The Cruze was $3200 less than a Malibu, and the Sonic was $1500 less than the Cruze. With 39 mpg possible out of the Malibu, a Malibu LS was only $1000 more than a loaded Sonic.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,011
    edited August 2013
    I didn't know the '14 Malibus were 'out' there yet. Interesting.

    In regards to circlew's post, the real surprise to me, based on the ownership panaceas I frequently read here, is how Mazda, Audi, and some high-priced Japanese brands did poorly as far as keeping customers loyal.

    I cannot tell from the chart, what precisely the criteria was. Is this people who bought a new 2012 vehicle who traded in the same brand?

    I believe Ford is still benefitting from the "I hate the bailouts" crowd.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited August 2013
    In regards to circlew's post, the real surprise to me, based on the ownership panaceas I frequently read here, is how Mazda, Audi, and some high-priced Japanese brands did poorly as far as keeping customers loyal.

    Those are the brands that have improved over 2011! :shades:

    Let us review 2012 from a brand loyalty perspective and see which brands achieved the greatest improvements versus 2011.

    image

    As anyone can see, GM is on the DECLINE...all divisions.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,011
    edited August 2013
    They obviously still have a lot of improvement to go, to not be able to come close to matching GM's lowest-priced division.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,724
    >My record for a replacement battery is eight years but my cars are older

    Was that a sealed battery? Or one to which you can add water. If the open type, did you use distilled water? I found that's a big help to the life of the plates.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I wonder, circlew, how would that graph look if we removed the Ford F-150 from the survey?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,604
    edited August 2013
    The battery in my fintail is about 6.5 years old now, seems to be fine - and this car only has a generator. There's not much to drain it when parked, of course. My E55 was 11 years and 4 months old when I sold it, I am sure it still had the original battery (I bought it at about 4 years old, never changed it, no record of it changed before me) - but it was a lower miles always garaged car.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,011
    edited August 2013
    I wonder, circlew, how would that graph look if we removed the Ford F-150 from the survey?

    His credibility is strained when the current makes he owns, Kia and Mazda, are below Chevrolet, yet he doesn't mention that at all. In fact, Mazda is below every single GM division. Yet...no comment other than how poorly GM is doing. Something in the water there in joizey I guess.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    They obviously still have a lot of improvement to go, to not be able to come close to matching GM's lowest-priced division.

    I would guess that it's not all apples to apples. For instance, a brand that has a wider variety of vehicles may have better loyalty simply because there's more of a choice. If I had a sedan and now I want an SUV or a truck, you'd expect Ford or Chevy to do better than VW or Mazda, for example.

    Second, I'd guess that the more premium brands have a harder time because for some buyers, they are buying their aspirational vehicle "one time" and then for their other vehicles they may not spend as much.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,724
    >His credibility is strained when the current makes he owns, Kia and Mazda, are below Chevrolet, yet he doesn't mention that at all.

    I had to go back to find what you're talking about. I have my filter set to skip those posts.

    I think most people have the picture by now.

    And I'm working on getting pictures of a Studebaker garage to post.

    The battery in my Cobalt seemed to crank fine when temp were cold and it was home. Hasn't seemed to give any of the typical symptoms of a weakening battery. Maybe I should have Walmart check it while it's home from getting an education.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    If you remove F-150, we should also remove Siverado and Savana. Once you take trucks from any compo, GM and F really garner weak loyalty.

    I wonder why?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Mazda and Kia did not have the market share to loose. Mazda is a splinter compared to GM as a tree. Have you taken a look at Optima sales vs. the Malibu? Besides, the data is posted. I see where all of the cards fall.

    Kia is doing just fine. I do not regret not having the owner experience of a Cobalt, let alone any GM car/truck since 1977 which I owned.

    Like I said previously, not having failures on the 3 non-domestics I own now is more than a breath of fresh air. Was I loyal to GM all those years back? Frightening!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,011
    If you remove F-150, we should also remove Siverado and Savana. Once you take trucks from any compo, GM and F really garner weak loyalty.

    If that is the case, why is Chevrolet above GMC in the ranking?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,011
    edited August 2013
    Kia is doing just fine. I do not regret not having the owner experience of a Cobalt, let alone any GM car/truck since 1977 which I owned.

    I also remember you flatly stating what a POS a Cobalt was...before we got you to grudgingly admit you'd never even sat in one, yet alone driven one.

    I can tell you, you will not be able to find me or imidazo or dave8697 making a flat statement like that about a Kia or Mazda on an Edmunds forum...particularly in initiating conversation.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Because looking at the sales data...

    Sliverado YTD 2013 - 284,666
    Savana - 9,610

    ...more customers mean higher loyalty as long as sales remain high. GM does very well in that category. :)
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited August 2013
    I also remember you flatly stating what a POS a Cobalt was...before we got you to grudgingly admit you'd never even sat in one, yet alone driven one.

    Only mho on the Cobalt...don't take it so personally. Is that why you always write like your underwear is in a bunch? I retract my statement and apologize!

    BTW, I drove a G6...isn't that the same thing? Not impressed with any part of the experience.

    Additionally, I am truly happy that you love your car and wish you many more years of satisfaction. GM is very lucky it has you as a loyal customer.

    Besides, now that the Cobalt is history, the Cruze is so much better. I still would not buy one, though.

    Now the Impala....that's a different story. You see, the competition drew a line in the sand which the Impala has stepped over. The Cruze merely stepped up to the line in it's class, afaic.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666

    DETROIT (TheStreet) -- In July, for the first time since March 2010, Toyota (TM) led Ford (F) in U.S. auto sales, one more sign that Ford can't make vehicles fast enough.

    Ford has inventory shortages of the Fusion and the Escape, top sellers in the midsize sedan and utility segments, and plans to resolve them with production increases this fall. Until then, the automaker is losing an uncounted number of sales because it doesn't have enough product.

    In July, when U.S. light-vehicle sales rose 14%, Fusion sales fell 12% to 20,522 units and sales of Escape, the best-selling utility vehicle this year, rose just 3.6% to 22,343. During the month, Toyota -- with light-vehicle sales in July of 193,394 -- beat out Ford light-vehicle sales of 193,080.

    Ford's Fusion supply is down to 30 days, about half the industry average, while the Escape supply is around 40 days. In the fall, Ford will boost Fusion production after adding 1,400 workers at its Flat Rock, Mich., plant. As for Escape, "we're making all we can in Louisville right now," said Ford analyst Erich Merkle. Ford will also increase production of the Explorer, another hot vehicle, at its Chicago plant.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Really? I never had a GM tranny fail. Ford, on the other hand...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,011
    Sliverado YTD 2013 - 284,666
    Savana - 9,610


    Uh...you're comparing sales of a Chevy pickup to a GMC full-size van.

    If only trucks are making loyal customers for GM, the chart does not substantiate that. Chevy trucks and GMC trucks are nearly identical, yet Chevy's repeat business (including cars, unlike GMC) is higher than GMC's.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,724
    edited August 2013
    > flat statement like that about a Kia or Mazda on an Edmunds forum...particularly in initiating conversation.

    I sat in an Optima by Kia, I think it's called. It was spartan in the finish of the interior. And all black. It was like sitting an F-16 cockpit, down deep and in. Couldn't see anything behind. I did get to close the door to close the salesman out, and that was a blessing--irritating guy. Overpriced on the model I sat in with a glassy roof and turbo, IIRC. All black.

    If it's jiggly like the cars.com commented about the Sonata, I definitely don't want it. I could have an Accord for that.

    But with that meth user face and the missing teeth look on the grill, that's not a car I could walk up to and have it turn me on to think about driving it. Fusion was better by a little but still had the cockpit philosophy and you couldn't see the tail rudder if you had to for parking.

    Optima had some of the boy-racer look of the Sonata left in the style since it's the same basic car. The Forte seemed to fit the bill a little better, but the hatchback that was nice was priced to sell to the 1%ers compared to other cars. Oh, I did sit in the Forte and I've driven our friend's Forte in Murphreesboro, TN.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    If that is the case, why is Chevrolet above GMC in the ranking?

    Good question. Any theories on why "Professional Grade" doesn't seem to engender much loyalty?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 17,011
    edited August 2013
    To utilize your own example, GMC does one product..trucks. Chevrolet does several series of automobiles in addition to trucks. That is why circlew's argument is invalid.

    As with "Standard of the World", I could care less about an advertising company's slogan. It's superficial stuff.

    To circlew: A G6 is a Malibu underneath, not a Cobalt...although I would say not a single piece of sheetmetal or interior trim would interchange between a G6 and a Malibu.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Opps! I mean the Sierra.
    2013 YTD sales = 104,215

    Exactly. GMC does not sell cars and probably some customers defect to Siverado as well.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    To circlew: A G6 is a Malibu underneath, not a Cobalt...although I would say not a single piece of sheetmetal or interior trim would interchange between a G6 and a Malibu.

    OK, thanks. Regarding why GMC might not garner more loyalt than Chevy is probably because they only make trucks. Most of the trucks and SUV's are pretty close clones so that probably hurts also.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    "In July, for the first time since March 2010, Toyota (TM) led Ford (F) in U.S. auto sales, one more sign that Ford can't make vehicles fast enough.

    Ford has inventory shortages of the Fusion and the Escape, top sellers in the midsize sedan and utility segments, and plans to resolve them with production increases this fall. Until then, the automaker is losing an uncounted number of sales because it doesn't have enough product.

    Ford's Fusion supply is down to 30 days, about half the industry average, while the Escape supply is around 40 days."


    Am I missing something? If you have 40 days supply of something, how are you "losing sales" because you have no product?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited August 2013
    Am I missing something? If you have 40 days supply of something, how are you "losing sales" because you have no product?

    Because not all of that product is on dealer lots. Most of it is somewhere between the factory and the dealer. In North America, most buyers don't want to wait for the car to come in. They want it right now, not in 2 weeks. If it's not available right now, they'll go buy an Accord, Camry, Malibu...

    The other is it that if something were to happen to the Fusion or Escape plants, they have less than a 4-5 week supply. Having an 8 week supply (closer to norms) makes production planners and sales managers more comfortable.

    Also, ask your colleague Jessica Caldwell, Edmunds' analyst that was quoted here:

    Why Low Inventory is Bad for Ford

    Edmunds.com analyst Jessica Caldwell said sales growth for popular vehicles like Fusion and Escape depends on "conquests," taking buyers from other brands. "It will hurt (Ford) if they don't have inventory out there (because) new buyers will stick to what they're used to..."
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,995
    I noticed Audi keeps low inventory now too. I think in an effort to keep prices high and supply low. Your lucky if there is one S4 in a lot.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Audi probably has more than 45-60 days of inventory as their supply chain requires boats.

    The S4 is a low volume product in comparison the the A4 so I'm not surprised that a dealer would only have one. My local dealer has 4 S4's compared to 77 total new 2014's of which 22 are A4's.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Was that a sealed battery? Or one to which you can add water. If the open type, did you use distilled water?

    No, yes, yes. :-)

    It was a Wally World one and one of those that you'd flip a top and expose three holes at a time. I check levels maybe once a year and top 'em up. The posts on the Subaru tend to need cleaning more often than the van.
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    I can say I never had a GM transmission fail, but everything else did....radio, A/C, hoses, wheel bearings, etc. Electrical gremlins that would make Poltergeist wince...... but I can say that when the car actually worked the transmission moved it.
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    That's because your Vibe is actually a Toyota Matrix.
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    I got a 2014 Impala as a rental last week in Detroit. It was better than the car it replaced, but it wasn't anything special. It was quiet and somewhat comfortable but the suspension was very soft and the oversteer was very prominent. Visibility was horrible, the high trunk lid and massive B pillars obscured all cars around me. I did average 31 mpg on all highway driving. The new Impala is definitely an improvement, but like the Malibu it's adequate and certainly not competitive.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited August 2013
    Well if you're right, that rather contradicts the "product loyalty" survey we just saw a few posts back.

    How can you have #1 product loyalty but your buyer not being able to wait 10 tens and so bails out and buy a Toyota?

    Or do we measure product loyalty these days in "gerbil-attention-span" increments? :P
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