If you're talking the 2014 Impala, my nearest dealer is not discounting them. They're a 'best price on the windshield' dealer, and last I looked, their best price was the sticker price.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Also, how many miles do Police take the cars up to before getting rid of them? they don't need much durability if they get rid of them quickly (100 or 150K miles?)
I'm sure it varies by jurisdiction, but I think the CHP normally got rid of their cars after three years, but then they would be picked up by local jurisdictions, and stay in service as county or city police cars. Or taxis.
I had an '89 Gran Fury that had been a police car, for the city of Richmond, Virginia. It was a sheriff's car, mainly used for going to court, serving summonses, etc. I bought it from a dealer that specialized in refurbished police cars in August of 1998, and I think they had gotten it earlier that year. Richmond retired it when the #8 cam lobe wore off. It only had about 73,500 miles on it.
I would guess that, at the most, a police car would stay in service for about 10 years. Police cars tend to spend a lot of time idling, which isn't good for cars in general. Actually, I wonder if the average service life of a police cars is shorter nowadays? Even though cars in general are more reliable, they're more expensive to fix when they do break. And cops tend to jump curbs, hit things, etc, and a lot of newer cars just can't take that abuse like an old Caprice or Crown Vic could. I do see a lot of Impalas around, though, so I guess they must hold up. In my county, I still see an occasional 2005 or earlier model, even.
I'm sure it varies by jurisdiction, but I think the CHP normally got rid of their cars after three years, but then they would be picked up by local jurisdictions, and stay in service as county or city police cars. Or taxis.
My town keeps cruisers for about 4 years. Then they get passed down to animal control, inspectional services, rec dept, et al where they run them until they die. I've seen some really old Crown Vics around town.
And cops tend to jump curbs, hit things, etc, and a lot of newer cars just can't take that abuse like an old Caprice or Crown Vic could.
I love this perception of how police cars are treated. The reality is that very few police cars jump curbs and bomb down sidewalks. The vast majority of police cars spend their time driving around suburban streets or cruising on the highway. It might hit a curb if the driver turns into a parking lot too tightly. Yes they were designed to handle those situations but in reality, hardly ever do.
I'd think the biggest wear issue might be constant idling, which might not be a big deal. They do seem prone to jackrabbit starts, too. But in my neighborhood anywaym you won't hop too many curbs or drive off-road when pestering teenagers and turning a blind eye to phone users/crosswalk crowders/sketchy wealth flying around in minor supercars.
I've seen the local cops get a bit rough on their cars around here from time to time. Yeah, they're not barreling down sidewalks and doing stunts like what you'd see on the A-Team, but I have seen them hop a curb on occasion. Not an everyday thing though. The main thing I see them do is gun it from a dead stop as soon as the light turns green, whether they need to or not. Or, stomp on it to run a red light.
I'd imagine that long-term idling is probably one of the roughest things on them, though. Out here in the suburbs, the roads aren't *too* bad, but I imagine that in DC for example, where the roads are crap and miles are often put on 500 feet at a time from one light to the next, I imagine those are some rough miles.
I'd think a patrol car from a rural area or suburbs would have an easier life than one in a big city. I live in a small town and the local PD vehicles are still driving Crown Vics that are a few years old and look pristine.
I know a guy who's a city cop in a town of 80k or so and a few years ago they decided not to provide dedicated patrol cars. The officers now share the pool of cars. He doesn't like the new policy, he claims not having a dedicated car means some officers don't take as good of care of them and he'll occasionally get stuck with one that's obviously been beat.
I think people have a misconception (no doubt from the movies) of what the consequences are of making a car go "airborne"--especially 4 wheels totally off the ground.
Basically it destroys the suspension when it lands. You couldn't possibly do this more than 2-3 times in real life.
Oh, but I've seen the General Lee do it hundreds of times on the Dukes of Hazzard! :P
I saw a movie called "Road Trip" many years ago where these kids tried jumping a creek with an older Ford Taurus with predictable results. The suspension was absolutely totalled when the car landed on the other bank!
The Impala is still the best selling large car in the USA, fleet or retail.
Circle, I've seen you post positive GM news multiple times. I wonder when we will see for certain other posters post positive foreign nameplate news? All in the name of that "balance" everybody seems to want...
"Circle, I've seen you post positive GM news multiple times. I wonder when we will see for certain other posters post positive foreign nameplate news? All in the name of that "balance" everybody seems to want..."
I think people have a misconception (no doubt from the movies) of what the consequences are of making a car go "airborne"--especially 4 wheels totally off the ground.
I did it once, in my '68 Dart, at a local railroad crossing that's raised up pretty high. I was somewhat lucky in that the only damage (that I noticed, at least) was that the motor mount on the passenger side, which was already marginal because of oil leaking on it, pretty much smashed flat. The engine sagged to the right, and that allowed the suspension to scrape against the exhaust on that side, and eventually it pulled it loose so it fell down and jammed up my steering.
I was lucky that the car landed fairly flat, rather than nosediving.
A few years before that, a friend of a friend jumped that same crossing. First in a 1972 Olds Ninety-Eight, supposedly with no consequences. But then he did it with an early 80's Cavalier that nosedived, and supposedly it totaled it.
Back when I delivered pizzas, one of the drivers had a new '98 or so S-10 pickup and I went out riding with him one night when it was slow. In the bed, which I know is a no-no. Well, he hit that same crossing, and I don't know if the wheels actually left the ground, but it was pretty scary!
Ah, the stupid things we did in our youth!
As for that pic I posted, it was from Smokey and the Bandit, Part II. Supposedly that particular jump, which involved a 1974 Dodge Monaco, holds a record for the furthest jump made by a car powered by its own engine (I don't know if that means "bone stock" or not, though). It went 163 feet, and the driver was injured, receiving a compressed vertebra from a hard landing.
Kind of a shame that they wasted a major jump like that, and the stunt driver got injured, for what was ultimately a minor scene lost in a sea of car crashes. In fact, when CBS ran "Smokey and the Bandit II", that was one of the scenes cut out. Only reason I know that is because I taped it on the VCR and watched it a million times, so when I finally saw it, uncut, on DVD, the extra scenes really stuck out.
Oh, please. You have never heard me utter a single negative word about an import on here...only defense when people criticize my personal decisions and post opinions as hard fact...or leave completely related information out of a statement (like posting recalls for only one make when a larger one occurred on the same day for a competitor).
But you know that.
Gentlemen, ask yourself this question, and please answer honestly:
The 2014 Corolla got a marginal rating in a recent crash test and it is on Edmunds' top stories today. No one has posted it here. If it were a Chevy or Ford, ask yourselves: Would circlew have posted it here? I believe the answer is obvious.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Those are two very practical reasons for considering a LaCrosse, for certain. I do like the Impala better, but honestly I don't know if I'd like it in the thousands of dollars better.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Why didn't you post it? Here is the competition. Toyota scores equal with Chevy and Kia across the board.
"The highest scorers were the Honda Civic Sedan, followed closely by the Civic Coupe. These were also the only two to earn overall scores of "Good." The Dodge Dart, Ford Focus, Hyundai Elantra and Scion tC all earned acceptable scores overall, which was still enough to qualify them for the TSP+ rating. The bottom half of the test included the Chevrolet Sonic, Volkswagen Beetle, Chevrolet Cruze, Nissan Sentra, Kia Soul and Kia Forte."
And I didn't post it even though Chevy was at the bottom. They raised the bar on the measures by adding small o/l crash test so I'm sure the manufacturers will respond in kind.
"While both cars share GM’s Epsilon II architecture, the Buick LaCrosse debuted in 2010, giving the engineers more time to fine tune the platform for the 2014 Impala. The LaCrosse will likely be getting a refresh inside and out to make it more worthy of its slight premium over the Chevy."
I've had two of our three Chevys into my dealer for oil changes today. They have a Cruze Turbo Diesel in the showroom. Attractive wheels I haven't seen before, IMHO, but $27K for a Cruze seems like a lot to me. Engine made in Germany; trans in Japan; final assembly Lordstown, OH; N.A. parts content 50%. Those are discouraging things to me.
And the '14 Malibu (the one they have), as I posted when I had my other Cobalt in for a fob program at the Chevy dealer four miles down the road and looked at one--I'm not seeing an increase in rear legroom when looking at one next to a '13. The grille design is different, but probably not an improvement IMHO. I don't think the changes will see sales increase; on the other hand, if price is right and with their good warranty, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. I still like our '11 better--both for looks and rear-seat space, although the new Malibu is better for interior materials I think.
I thumbed through the Motor Trend they had in the waiting room. I was reading their long-term test of a BMW 5-series. At 30K it needed new rotors and the writer wasn't ecstatic that the dealer gave them a Malibu rental car as a loaner.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
The 2014 Corolla got a marginal rating in a recent crash test and it is on Edmunds' top stories today. No one has posted it here. If it were a Chevy or Ford, ask yourselves: Would circlew have posted it here? I believe the answer is obvious.
There have been many stories about good imports, also. Would certain posters every consider posting any of those positive stories? CircleW does about GM as well as the imports. Balance, you know.
"If you feel what you see here is balance, well, there's really nothing else that can be said."
Like that's ever going to really happen!
Anyway, looks like GM's work will be noticed this year for their products nor NACOTY awards..
GM’s engineering and design operations are delivering a steady flow of strong vehicles now that the automaker has narrowed its focus to four brands and tapped its resources around the world.
Toyota is returning to stride after the credit crisis, an earthquake and floods delayed and disrupted its new model plan.
Anybody who thought Hyundai and Kia couldn’t maintain their flow of new models is going to be sorely disappointed.
Toyota is the most valuable auto brand, survey shows Hyundai breaks into top 50
GM did not make the top ten of brand value.. Why? Could it be the black marks from it's recent failures? I ask because I really don't know.
Top 10 automotive brands and their worth ($1 bn)
1. Toyota 35.3 2. Mercedes 31.9 3. BMW 31.8 4. Honda 18.4 5. VW 11.1 6. Ford 9.1 7. Hyundai 9.0 8. Audi 7.7 9. Porsche 6.4 10. Nissan 6.2
What's the criteria?
The survey, in its 14th year, measures brands based on financial performance, advertising exposure, consistency, customer understanding, clarity and relevance.
GM did not make the top ten of brand value.. Why? Could it be the black marks from it's recent failures? I ask because I really don't know.
Because GM isn't a brand - it's a corporate name. We all know Moet, Louis Vuitton, Fendi and Tag Heuer but few of us know LVMH the corporate owner.
Also note that all of the brands listed are marketing globally. Chevy came in at #89. Not too bad for a brand that's been marketed globally for only 2-3 years.
And it seems like the rest of us see a lot of stuff not related to The State of the US Auto Market.
Well, I guess the topic isn't "balance in the auto market"...
It's great that sales are ramping up. Good that it goes up slowly rather than another crash and burn. With some luck in the economy, it can stay this way for a while.
In terms of domestic versus foreign, it would be interesting to see a graph of domestic nameplates and their US content trends, and then foreign nameplates and their US content trends. I suspect we'd see the domestic nameplates going more non-domestic content over time, and the foreign nameplates going the opposite.
Seems to me that when you look at actual numbers of people employed by automakers and related, you have the following:
Corporate management Designers Parts manufacturing Assembly Transportation Marketing and Advertising Dealerships
If you look at that list, the quantity of people in the "Corporate Management" category would be very small. So talking domestic vs. foreign is really kind of silly. Most of the rest of those roles happen in this country regardless of the nameplate. In fact, many foreign nameplates design their US-based cars here, too. And I know at least some of the domestic nameplates have designs that originated overseas.
OK. Exactly right. They aren't marketing as a brand. The Top players are.
Passive aggressive much??
GM as a whole is one of the top 3 car makers in the world. None of their brands have been sold worldwide like the other brands in the list. Chevrolet is now on the list at #89 - not bad for a 3 year old global brand.
I believe you can buy Chevies all through the Americas, including central and South America, and I think it's been that way for a long time (please correct me if I'm wrong).
The other worldwide makes all seem to make vehicles under their make-name. You'd think the third largest maker would find a way to leverage their size from an advertising/branding perspective.
Chevrolet is now their global brand. Holden and Vauxhall will continue to be sold in their home countries only and Opel will continue to be a semi worldwide brand. Chevrolet is already sold in the markets the former three are in but there is little overlap in product.
the good thing about BMW is that at 30Kor even 49,999 miles they will cover your brakes and rotors I believe. The only thing they don't cover as far as I know from bumper to bumper is the tires.
Does anyone know if they cover wipers?
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Mobil 1's quart bottles of motor oil come with measuring lines on the bottle with a translucent vertical center line from top to bottom on the side and comes with measurement lines in tenth increments.
So I can know if I have .1, .2, .3, and on an on left in my quart bottle.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Comments
I'm sure it varies by jurisdiction, but I think the CHP normally got rid of their cars after three years, but then they would be picked up by local jurisdictions, and stay in service as county or city police cars. Or taxis.
I had an '89 Gran Fury that had been a police car, for the city of Richmond, Virginia. It was a sheriff's car, mainly used for going to court, serving summonses, etc. I bought it from a dealer that specialized in refurbished police cars in August of 1998, and I think they had gotten it earlier that year. Richmond retired it when the #8 cam lobe wore off. It only had about 73,500 miles on it.
I would guess that, at the most, a police car would stay in service for about 10 years. Police cars tend to spend a lot of time idling, which isn't good for cars in general. Actually, I wonder if the average service life of a police cars is shorter nowadays? Even though cars in general are more reliable, they're more expensive to fix when they do break. And cops tend to jump curbs, hit things, etc, and a lot of newer cars just can't take that abuse like an old Caprice or Crown Vic could. I do see a lot of Impalas around, though, so I guess they must hold up. In my county, I still see an occasional 2005 or earlier model, even.
YTD Sales 2013
Impala - 121,033
Charger - 73,342
Taurus - 63,621
Avalon - 53,795
300 - 44,186
LaCross -38,845
Maxima - 36,196
Genesis - 25,117
Azera - 9,105
Cadenza - 5,758
My town keeps cruisers for about 4 years. Then they get passed down to animal control, inspectional services, rec dept, et al where they run them until they die. I've seen some really old Crown Vics around town.
And cops tend to jump curbs, hit things, etc, and a lot of newer cars just can't take that abuse like an old Caprice or Crown Vic could.
I love this perception of how police cars are treated. The reality is that very few police cars jump curbs and bomb down sidewalks. The vast majority of police cars spend their time driving around suburban streets or cruising on the highway. It might hit a curb if the driver turns into a parking lot too tightly. Yes they were designed to handle those situations but in reality, hardly ever do.
I've seen the local cops get a bit rough on their cars around here from time to time. Yeah, they're not barreling down sidewalks and doing stunts like what you'd see on the A-Team, but I have seen them hop a curb on occasion. Not an everyday thing though. The main thing I see them do is gun it from a dead stop as soon as the light turns green, whether they need to or not. Or, stomp on it to run a red light.
I'd imagine that long-term idling is probably one of the roughest things on them, though. Out here in the suburbs, the roads aren't *too* bad, but I imagine that in DC for example, where the roads are crap and miles are often put on 500 feet at a time from one light to the next, I imagine those are some rough miles.
I'd think a patrol car from a rural area or suburbs would have an easier life than one in a big city. I live in a small town and the local PD vehicles are still driving Crown Vics that are a few years old and look pristine.
I know a guy who's a city cop in a town of 80k or so and a few years ago they decided not to provide dedicated patrol cars. The officers now share the pool of cars. He doesn't like the new policy, he claims not having a dedicated car means some officers don't take as good of care of them and he'll occasionally get stuck with one that's obviously been beat.
Probably not a huge deal other than for the miles on the odometer there would be an excessively high hour count on the engine.
Basically it destroys the suspension when it lands. You couldn't possibly do this more than 2-3 times in real life.
I saw a movie called "Road Trip" many years ago where these kids tried jumping a creek with an older Ford Taurus with predictable results. The suspension was absolutely totalled when the car landed on the other bank!
I wonder if the movies will ever get rid of all that tire squeal in the sound tracks. Nah....
Circle, I've seen you post positive GM news multiple times. I wonder when we will see for certain other posters post positive foreign nameplate news? All in the name of that "balance" everybody seems to want...
Please don't hold your breath!
Don't worry, I'm not!
I did it once, in my '68 Dart, at a local railroad crossing that's raised up pretty high. I was somewhat lucky in that the only damage (that I noticed, at least) was that the motor mount on the passenger side, which was already marginal because of oil leaking on it, pretty much smashed flat. The engine sagged to the right, and that allowed the suspension to scrape against the exhaust on that side, and eventually it pulled it loose so it fell down and jammed up my steering.
I was lucky that the car landed fairly flat, rather than nosediving.
A few years before that, a friend of a friend jumped that same crossing. First in a 1972 Olds Ninety-Eight, supposedly with no consequences. But then he did it with an early 80's Cavalier that nosedived, and supposedly it totaled it.
Back when I delivered pizzas, one of the drivers had a new '98 or so S-10 pickup and I went out riding with him one night when it was slow. In the bed, which I know is a no-no. Well, he hit that same crossing, and I don't know if the wheels actually left the ground, but it was pretty scary!
Ah, the stupid things we did in our youth!
As for that pic I posted, it was from Smokey and the Bandit, Part II. Supposedly that particular jump, which involved a 1974 Dodge Monaco, holds a record for the furthest jump made by a car powered by its own engine (I don't know if that means "bone stock" or not, though). It went 163 feet, and the driver was injured, receiving a compressed vertebra from a hard landing.
Kind of a shame that they wasted a major jump like that, and the stunt driver got injured, for what was ultimately a minor scene lost in a sea of car crashes. In fact, when CBS ran "Smokey and the Bandit II", that was one of the scenes cut out. Only reason I know that is because I taped it on the VCR and watched it a million times, so when I finally saw it, uncut, on DVD, the extra scenes really stuck out.
But you know that.
Gentlemen, ask yourself this question, and please answer honestly:
The 2014 Corolla got a marginal rating in a recent crash test and it is on Edmunds' top stories today. No one has posted it here. If it were a Chevy or Ford, ask yourselves: Would circlew have posted it here? I believe the answer is obvious.
"The highest scorers were the Honda Civic Sedan, followed closely by the Civic Coupe. These were also the only two to earn overall scores of "Good." The Dodge Dart, Ford Focus, Hyundai Elantra and Scion tC all earned acceptable scores overall, which was still enough to qualify them for the TSP+ rating. The bottom half of the test included the Chevrolet Sonic, Volkswagen Beetle, Chevrolet Cruze, Nissan Sentra, Kia Soul and Kia Forte."
And I didn't post it even though Chevy was at the bottom. They raised the bar on the measures by adding small o/l crash test so I'm sure the manufacturers will respond in kind.
Go Honda!
"While both cars share GM’s Epsilon II architecture, the Buick LaCrosse debuted in 2010, giving the engineers more time to fine tune the platform for the 2014 Impala. The LaCrosse will likely be getting a refresh inside and out to make it more worthy of its slight premium over the Chevy."
And the '14 Malibu (the one they have), as I posted when I had my other Cobalt in for a fob program at the Chevy dealer four miles down the road and looked at one--I'm not seeing an increase in rear legroom when looking at one next to a '13. The grille design is different, but probably not an improvement IMHO. I don't think the changes will see sales increase; on the other hand, if price is right and with their good warranty, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. I still like our '11 better--both for looks and rear-seat space, although the new Malibu is better for interior materials I think.
I thumbed through the Motor Trend they had in the waiting room. I was reading their long-term test of a BMW 5-series. At 30K it needed new rotors and the writer wasn't ecstatic that the dealer gave them a Malibu rental car as a loaner.
There have been many stories about good imports, also. Would certain posters every consider posting any of those positive stories? CircleW does about GM as well as the imports. Balance, you know.
Like that's ever going to really happen!
Anyway, looks like GM's work will be noticed this year for their products nor NACOTY awards..
GM’s engineering and design operations are delivering a steady flow of strong vehicles now that the automaker has narrowed its focus to four brands and tapped its resources around the world.
Toyota is returning to stride after the credit crisis, an earthquake and floods delayed and disrupted its new model plan.
Anybody who thought Hyundai and Kia couldn’t maintain their flow of new models is going to be sorely disappointed.
http://www.freep.com/article/20131006/COL14/310060075/north-american-car-truck-o- f-the-year
Hyundai breaks into top 50
GM did not make the top ten of brand value.. Why? Could it be the black marks from it's recent failures? I ask because I really don't know.
Top 10 automotive brands and their worth ($1 bn)
1. Toyota 35.3
2. Mercedes 31.9
3. BMW 31.8
4. Honda 18.4
5. VW 11.1
6. Ford 9.1
7. Hyundai 9.0
8. Audi 7.7
9. Porsche 6.4
10. Nissan 6.2
What's the criteria?
The survey, in its 14th year, measures brands based on financial performance, advertising exposure, consistency, customer understanding, clarity and relevance.
http://europe.autonews.com/article/20131004/ANE/310069999/toyota-is-the-most-val- - - uable-auto-brand-survey-shows?CFID=885201&CFTOKEN=86856084#axzz2geEUFvCV
Because GM isn't a brand - it's a corporate name. We all know Moet, Louis Vuitton, Fendi and Tag Heuer but few of us know LVMH the corporate owner.
Also note that all of the brands listed are marketing globally. Chevy came in at #89. Not too bad for a brand that's been marketed globally for only 2-3 years.
No, I definitely see a lot of imbalance.
I'd post a pithy link right now but I got nothing but the usual daily recall list.
Well, I guess the topic isn't "balance in the auto market"...
It's great that sales are ramping up. Good that it goes up slowly rather than another crash and burn. With some luck in the economy, it can stay this way for a while.
In terms of domestic versus foreign, it would be interesting to see a graph of domestic nameplates and their US content trends, and then foreign nameplates and their US content trends. I suspect we'd see the domestic nameplates going more non-domestic content over time, and the foreign nameplates going the opposite.
Seems to me that when you look at actual numbers of people employed by automakers and related, you have the following:
Corporate management
Designers
Parts manufacturing
Assembly
Transportation
Marketing and Advertising
Dealerships
If you look at that list, the quantity of people in the "Corporate Management" category would be very small. So talking domestic vs. foreign is really kind of silly. Most of the rest of those roles happen in this country regardless of the nameplate. In fact, many foreign nameplates design their US-based cars here, too. And I know at least some of the domestic nameplates have designs that originated overseas.
Interesting that the automotive industry leaders are brands that are also corporate names. Hmmm.......
Well it would be a little hard to market GM as the brand name...since they don't sell any cars under the GM name.
You don't see Daimler or Fuji Heavy Industries on there either.
Exactly! Would you want to market GM as a brand name considering everything about the companies history? I'm asking because I really don't know!
They aren't marketing it as a brand so i don't understand:
Would you want to market GM as a brand name considering everything about the companies history?
Unless of course you're just trying to get a rise out of me which ain't gonna work.
No rise intended.
Passive aggressive much??
GM as a whole is one of the top 3 car makers in the world. None of their brands have been sold worldwide like the other brands in the list. Chevrolet is now on the list at #89 - not bad for a 3 year old global brand.
IMHO, it will be top 25 within 2 years.
Uh, GMC?
Although that is US only, AFAIK.
I believe you can buy Chevies all through the Americas, including central and South America, and I think it's been that way for a long time (please correct me if I'm wrong).
The other worldwide makes all seem to make vehicles under their make-name. You'd think the third largest maker would find a way to leverage their size from an advertising/branding perspective.
I ask because I really don't know.
And Circle will probably be happy to hear that Hyundai is right behind VW and ahead of Ford on the global market.
http://247wallst.com/special-report/2013/09/13/the-worlds-largest-automakers/3/
Wow! I didn't realize HyunKia was so far up the list!
Amazing how far they have come...
Does anyone know if they cover wipers?
And the oil changes are a ridiculous 12 month/15k mile period. I think it's something like 10 quarts of synthetic...
My new F150 with the 5.0 V8 takes 7.7 quarts. 7.7quarts? Seriously?? How in the h*ll do you measure that, anyway?
So I can know if I have .1, .2, .3, and on an on left in my quart bottle.