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The Current State of the US Auto Market

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,439
    I am in the same boat. If I can finally get my son (just graduated) off on his own with a real job, that is one car gone. And next fall my daughter will be in College, so I inherit the car she uses back, meaning it will again be 2 drivers (me and the wife) with 2 cars on hand.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,900
    We have four cars, and zero payments (thankfully). Three Chevys and a Chrysler, 2011, 2009, and two 2008's. Mileage from 34K through 71K. The Chrysler is 4 1/2 hours away. Two Chevys are in our garage and one is out in the turnaround.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    edited October 2013
    In February, the Federal Highway Administration showed the number of vehicle miles traveled peaked in the U.S. in 2004, and has declined for eight years.

    The roads are nutty enough in this nation and more young drivers is not the answer to anything. Vehicle cost + vehicle insurance + horribly expensive ghastly and you have exactly what's happening in America. Wages aren't going up - they're hard to even stay with the status quo.

    Having said and agreed with all that, I would hate ta lose my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS racecar...I...I mean Japanese compact sedan. Rock On! :P I don't want no motorcycle and I don't need no bicycle...gotta drive my little red rocker!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,681
    >Then around the second half of the Nineties they came out with a smaller version that also had an Olds companion.

    That's what I couldn't figure out from your term: which was the version you meant.

    I liked the rounded version you're talking about. Many are on the road around here and desirable on used lots. The square off version that appeared to be slightly larger than Civic and have the sharp taillights almost never show up on lots. The owners keep them. I would like to buy one of those with low mileage.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I guess those Auburns, Cords, Pierce-Arrows, Marmons, and Duesenbergs were just piled on the ash heap of history too.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,900
    "I guess those Auburns, Cords, Pierce-Arrows, Marmons, and Duesenbergs were just piled on the ash heap of history too."

    LOL!

    I learn so much from the absolute opinions on this board. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited October 2013
    Toyota latest to defer payments for furloughed workers.

    Toyota's announcement follows similar plans from Hyundai (HYMTF) and Nissan (NSANF). Hyundai said it would allow federal employees delay payments for the duration of their furloughs, while Nissan -- like Toyota -- allowed furloughed federal workers a three-month deferral.

    http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/15/autos/toyota-shutdown-payment-deferral/index.htm- - l
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    At least the foreign nameplate companies are being good to their US workers.

    Wouldn't it be great if the Federal Government was being good, too?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,900
    How is this being good to the automakers' workers?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • jpp75jpp75 Member Posts: 1,535
    Andre, love your knowledge of cars and their respective eras. GM has come a long way, the Impala is now a class leader according to the press.

    We'll see if retail sales follow the love. Unfortunately they built the right car for the wrong segment. The midsize market is the place to be, not the large car segment. Too bad they couldn't do the same with the Malibu, sales continue to lag in spite of recent improvements.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,900
    edited October 2013
    I don't believe there are any sales data yet for '14 Malibus. I saw my first one, after keeping an eye out for one, only maybe three weeks ago. The two dealers nearest me still had a bunch of '13 Malibus in inventory though.

    I honestly can't see, unless there are big deals to be had, how the '14 will sell much better than the '13, though. I didn't see a visual increase in the rear seat legroom, and the grille design is different but not any more handsome I don't think.

    You heard it here.

    I genuinely couldn't care less that it's not a big seller, if I were looking to buy in that class. I buy on looks, price, dealer, my past experience, warranty, domestic parts content, probably close to that order.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think the current gen Malibu is a classic case of Ivy League MBA over marketing analysis. They made it smaller to enhance the new (at the time) upcoming Impala. Market segmentation overkill! No common sense.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Sorry, I meant "customers".
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I heard it from you first but you know I already knew! Agree completely with your assessment. GM needed to "Blow it Out' the Water" but it's still mediocre.

    Who is responsible for this? Unacceptable!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,900
    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/11/2014-chevrolet-malibu-first-drive-review/

    Handsome I think; built in the U.S. as are the engine and trans.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Camry beats it, i'm afraid! AND built in the USA!

    "Once again,Cars.com has come to the counter-intuitive conclusion that the Toyota Camry is the most American of all cars -- more U.S. sourced parts, U.S. production and U.S. sales."

    1 Toyota Camry, Georgetown, Ky., and Lafayette, Ind.
    2 Ford F-150, Dearborn, Mich., and Claycomo, Mo.
    3 Honda Accord, Marysville, Ohio
    4 Toyota Sienna, Princeton, Ind.
    5 Honda Pilot, Lincoln, Ala.
    6 Chevrolet Traverse, Lansing, Mich.
    7 Toyota Tundra, San Antonio
    8 Jeep Liberty, Toledo, Ohio
    9 GMC Acadia, Lansing
    10 Buick Enclave, Lansing
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Not bad except for the BMW-Bangle rear end.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,900
    edited October 2013
    Are the Camry's engine and trans built in the U.S.? I have no idea; maybe they are, but those facts aren't included in the North American Parts Content percentage. It's still, overall, a Japanese company to me, when I remember how Toyota's N.A. head looked like a deer in the headlights and deferred almost everything to Mr. Toyoda during Washington's questioning of how they handled recalls. I also remember how production was almost totally hamstrung during the tsunami.

    You'll note (if you open the link) that the reviewer actually said positive things about the '14 in relation to the Camry:

    "The Malibu pulls off the whole Camry formula better than Toyota itself can right now."

    Just sayin'.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,681
    As I read the book Arrogance and Accords (AA), I was struck by the attitude by the Tokyo management, both about the corruption that's acceptable in Japan being used by managers here and about their attitude after the company was exposed. Made me think of toyota when the runaway acceleration problems were exposed.

    Remember the people in Japan coming out with gauze masks over their faces to talk to the germ-laden US media folks?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    edited October 2013
    Camry's engine and transmission are made in Kentucky and West Virginia.

    Production totally hamstrung? Well, if even ONE part is made in Japan, and if you cannot get that part, then you can't build that car then, even if all the other parts are made in the USA. Many other makes, even the so-called "American" ones, were affected by the tsunami.

    Just reportin' facts.

    I hope ALL the car makers do well, not just Toyota, not just general motors. !! .
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited October 2013
    I also remember them announcing that many American cars imported into Japan had to be repainted because the quality was so bad and "unacceptable" to the Japanese buyer. I found that hard to believe at the time, given some of the paintwork I saw on Japanese cars coming over here.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,900
    Mcdawgg, if you're old enough, you'll remember the tire strike in the late '70's which kept most domestic iron from being built with spare tires. The cars were shipped without it. Dealers provided the part later.

    One part, unless it's a critical part, one wouldn't think would keep cars from shipping.

    There were some 'domestic' slowdowns, but absolutely nothing like the Japanese manufacturers, even those who largely assemble here.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Are the Camry's engine and trans built in the U.S.? I have no idea; maybe they are, but those facts aren't included in the North American Parts Content percentage. It's still, overall, a Japanese company to me, when I remember how Toyota's N.A. head looked like a deer in the headlights and deferred almost everything to Mr. Toyoda during Washington's questioning of how they handled recalls.

    This is a great example of how I believe many of us want the same successes for the US, but see how to go about it differently.

    Given your quote above, what I see is that the management (senior) of the company is Japanese, but almost all the workers, all the parts content that is domestic, plus the dealers, advertisers, etc. - all Americans in both cases. So the biggest difference boils down to the senior management. And that's not a lot of people in either case (probably more for GM since I suspect they are more top-heavy than Toyota).

    While Toyota was horrendous regarding recalls, the GM management proclaimed how well things were going, right until they fell over a cliff. This was the management that begged Congress for money, and Wagoner retired with mega $$million packages for his incompetency. It was Lutz who thought hybrids were a joke and instead gave us Solstice, Sky, and three kinds of hybrids while touting the E85 fuel capabilities. (How many out there are using this fuel at all?)

    I don't really want to reward the senior management of GM (at least the past senior management) any more than I want to reward the senior management of Toyota. But I DO want the market to be more efficient - better products sell better. That, in the end, give the consumers the best products of all.

    So you're being patriotic by buying from a locally made, US company set of products. And I would be patriotic by promoting (actually I don't want any Toyota, anyway) a locally made set of BEST products, and not rewarding ANY senior management of ANY company that is doing a crappy job.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Production totally hamstrung? Well, if even ONE part is made in Japan, and if you cannot get that part, then you can't build that car then, even if all the other parts are made in the USA.

    IMHO that entire argument is a red herring. Ford could't produce certain black cars for the same reasons because the paint was sourced in Japan which was affected.

    To pretend that any globalized car maker couldn't be affected by some localized disaster is just silly.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,900
    Not being able to produce "certain black cars" is a loooonnnnngggg way from what the Japanese manufacturers faced with the tsunami.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Shipping without a spare is one thing. But let's face it, the reality is if you are missing one of MOST parts (I'd say most would be 93%), the car can't be sold. I think I recall some electronic parts were sourced in Japan, and that's one of the reasons they had to stop production. I'd not be happy missing a spare, even for a week, as to me, that is a safety hazard. I check my spare once a month, BTW. My point stands - you are missing ONE part, chances are, the car cannot roll off the line, or it would not make financial sense to ship it without a non-critical part (say, a radio) and then install it later. But I'd guess at least 93% of the parts are critical, so you can't miss ONE of those!! I'm done with this. TMC profits affect me & LOTS of USA citizens, as I am a stock holder. Yes, that's Toyota stock. I also own some Ford, and general motors.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Not being able to produce "certain black cars" is a loooonnnnngggg way from what the Japanese manufacturers faced with the tsunami.

    Perhaps you missed the point of the rest of my posting.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,900
    The hard fact is that the Japanese manufacturers' production was significantly more affected by the tsunami than the domestic manufacturers. No amount of wishin' and hopin' changes that fact.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Don't get me wrong, the '14 'Bu is a good car. Just not the best in class. You know GM can do it if it wanted to. That's the chronic issue with GM...only do so much and then B.S. the rest.

    In a world of excellent choices, the Malibu won't steal many sales from the leaders until GM really gets it. The Impala is right there with the best.

    Why not the Malibu?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    "No amount of wishin' and hopin' changes that fact."

    Same with the fact that the Camry is the most American car.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited October 2013
    This is called leading.

    image

    Consumer Reports magazine, the non-profit that for years has criticized GM vehicles compared with their Japanese rivals, named the redesigned 2014 Chevrolet Impala as the best sedan in the U.S. — better than Mercedes-Benz's, BMW's or Lexus' offerings. It also named the redone 2014 Chevrolet Silverado as top pickup.

    And GM rose markedly in J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study this year, one of the industry's most closely watched quality barometers.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,900
    edited October 2013
    Well, highest percentage of NA parts is a good thing for sure. I'll take it as fact that the engine and trans are built in the U.S.; I couldn't find this online anywhere but I suppose a quick look at a window sticker of a new one would confirm. I know that the company did not have its start in the U.S., is not headquartered here now, is managed and engineering done in Japan, and the Japanese culture of the company is embraced (Samurai sword given to local dealer on his anniversary). That's all fine, and today's Toyota is better to me than the old Toyota, since they build here, but to call it as American as the Detroit makers is not being completely intellectually honest IMHO. The tsunami didn't shut the Detroit makers down.

    I last drove a 2010 Camry. It was a rental with 15K miles. It made front-end noises that would indicate a control arm bushing was shot, and the Traction Control light stayed on. I hadn't had any other rental in that time period that did anything at all like that. Just sayin'.

    But I won't post here how ridiculous you are for your purchase decisions, and I would expect the same from other regulars here.

    Personally, I won't buy a D3 product that's not built in the U.S. I have owned one that was built in Canada, nearly 30 years ago. I ordered the car and expected it'd be built in Oklahoma like most I saw on lots were.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Remember, the American Tsunami called C-11 was completely American made. No foreign content.

    I buy the best products for my needs...wherever it is made.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,900
    Well, we have a different philosophy on things outside of just automobiles, but of course that is OK.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    'We don't want to do things that way'
    "Right after the IPO General Motors was immediately profitable, and I could see the attitude and the urgency in the room just go away," he said. "As soon as we were making money, that changed. It was like, 'Oh no. We don't want to do things that way. We have a way of doing things at General Motors,' and it quickly reversed."

    Mr. Ewanick said he harbors no resentments about how his time at General Motors ended. He acknowledged the difficulty of changing the culture at a place such as GM.

    He said GM's efforts to make Chevrolet and Cadillac into truly global brands will go a long way in GM's continuing renaissance.

    "It's an amazing organization. It's a labyrinth of departments so I think it's difficult," he said. "I think they'll get there. I just think everybody's realizing that it'll take a lot longer to get there than they anticipated because it's so big."

    Remeber when I wrote that Toyota has GM disease?

    Here is the link to the Ewanick story.

    Joel Ewanick Breaks Silence on Departure From General Motors
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,900
    Ewanick was fired. A fired employee talking negatively about his former employer is not exactly a shocking thing.

    I do know this--I thought their ads under him were the suckiest in years.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,681
    The transmissions appear to come from Aisin-Sekei, a company based in Kariya, Aichi, Japan, in which Wiki says toyota has part ownership, of course.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    "It's an amazing organization. It's a labyrinth of departments so I think it's difficult," he said. "I think they'll get there. I just think everybody's realizing that it'll take a lot longer to get there than they anticipated because it's so big."

    No shock just fact. Balance, of course.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    2014 Malibu is nicely styled. Tasteful. Especially in the rear areas.

    Chevrolet has done a fine job in styling in recent years. Cruze. Now, Impala and Malibu.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    >>>>>>As I read the book Arrogance and Accords (AA), I was struck by the attitude by the Tokyo management, both about the corruption that's acceptable in Japan being used by managers here and about their attitude after the company was exposed>>>>>>

    Many Americans were struck by the arrogance and attitude of our U.S. Government when they bailed out GM and gave unfair advantage to the Unions while giving bondholders a haircut. Could we call that corruption?
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    IIRC, AW is also the largest transmission supplier in the world and supplies to everyone from Ford to Porsche, including some of GM's own models...
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,681
    >U.S. Government when they bailed out GM and gave unfair advantage to the Unions while giving bondholders a haircut.

    Yup. Sounds like the US government is just trying to keep up with the way foreign cars are treated in their countries of origin. :)

    Lots of subsidies and aid in the past in those foreign countries? I am not sure. I'm just asking.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited October 2013
    http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2013/10/17/gm-boosts-prices-as-pickup-truck-battl- e-rages/#

    GM raises truck prices so they can discount them more to increase sales...
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    "IMHO that entire argument is a red herring. Ford could't produce certain black cars for the same reasons because the paint was sourced in Japan which was affected.

    To pretend that any globalized car maker couldn't be affected by some localized disaster is just silly."

    I agree.

    Imagine what might have been if, say, a huge earthquake had hit China in the appropriate manufacturing region, or if the tsunami had over-run parts of South Korea.

    Anecdotal experiences hardly reveal the true reality behind the incidents they are used to justify.

    Being lucky in the past has no bearing whatsoever on being lucky in the future. Ask anyone who has spent much time in Vegas...
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Consumer Reports magazine, the non-profit that for years has criticized GM vehicles compared with their Japanese rivals, named the redesigned 2014 Chevrolet Impala as the best sedan in the U.S. — better than Mercedes-Benz's, BMW's or Lexus' offerings. It also named the redone 2014 Chevrolet Silverado as top pickup.

    That's the CR that has an agenda, you know. They're obviously anti-US cars except when their opinions agree with those of some posters. ;)
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    IIRC, AW is also the largest transmission supplier in the world and supplies to everyone from Ford to Porsche, including some of GM's own models...

    Just think, if something happened to that factory, all those companies would not be able to produce certain models of vehicles...
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Yup. Sounds like the US government is just trying to keep up with the way foreign cars are treated in their countries of origin.

    So what I'm hearing is that foreign corruption= bad; US corruption=ok.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,900
    Well, yes, of course.

    My point originally was that for all the non-stop talk about how the Japanese manufacturers are every bit as American as the Detroit guys, the tsunami absolutely, positively put a bigger hurt on them than any domestic manufacturer--even for their models built here.

    That's all I meant--no more, no less.

    I believe imidazo's view is the mirror image of your post--that you guys think foreign corruption in the auto industry is OK, but in your own country--terrible!!!!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,900
    As usual, tlong, I believe you are fully aware that their rating on the Impala is the first time in decades....decades...that they've come to a conclusion like that.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Until 2014, in what year was the Impala model last hailed as best in class and similar excellent reviews by CR and other magazines? Decades ago?
This discussion has been closed.