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Comments
On another forum, somebody had recorded the engine clicking noise in mp3 format. Sounded pretty ugly.
Meade
u are getting paranoid.
Regulation says that All the cars manufacturers have to have a speedo that shows more speed than actual. This is to allow for plus sizing. BMW has as much as +5mph on standard cars.
So don't worry about speedo errors after changing tires.
We're talking around 1 percent in your case.
Meade
Wanna go for 3 in a row?
I'm a slacker...
it's only be actual or +5%.
viz. u can show the real speed or more, NEVER less.
refer: march 2002 Car&Driver
Meade, think of a poll question!
I do find CR particularly useful for products that I don't know much about and don't want to spend a lot of time learning about. For example, I needed a new rolling carryon and I just bought the one CR liked best, and it's great. For products I know better, I find they often give useful information but I don't always agree with how it's used. For instance, with TVs they rate audio quality and that impacts the overall rating, but I couldn't give a lick about audio quality because I have a home theater setup and I'm not going to be using the TV's audio anyway.
I like their car issue, even if I don't always agree with every point and despite the errors, it's useful. I have the current dilemma that my mother-in-law wants a new car because she hates her Cavalier (what a surprise), but for reasons I don't' really understand she's comitted to GM. CR recommends virtually no GM products, which seems about right to me, and maybe I can use that to convince her to look elsewhere...
Sunbyrne: Yeah, CR is useful for appliances and such that one might not be very familiar with...sometimes gives you an idea of what features to look for, etc. Although as you pointed out, they sometimes fixate on aspects that might not be important to the average consumer.
Also, I don't know why they even bother comparing and rating food products (The best breakfast cereal! The best bottled water!)...how subjective can you get??
Some of you have repeatedly asked me to send all Jetta conversation to the Jetta discussion. It mystifies me why some of those same folks continue to bring up and/or continue to encourage conversation about the Jetta here.
If anyone has any questions about what has gone on here, please drop me an email.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
The software engineers rolled in some changes last night, and some things changed that were not supposed to. AFAIK, no one can see anything but the last 20 posts in any given discussion.
The problem is being addressed, I assure you.
And no, at the moment there is no estimated get well time.
We are sorry.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Two weeks ago, Hank was teaching ME all about clear corners. Seriously considering doing that...although I'm sure as soon as I get them on there, that will be the same day somebody crunches them in some parking lot.
What would you like to learn?
No problems.
It is my opinion that the masses will almost certainly ignore them. Just like my mom, sister, and at least 50% of my family have a Toyota Camry. The Camry is pretty reliable and the assembly quality is very good but its not as reliable as the statistics would suggest. This is because most people who do have problems with they Camry consider themselves the exception and ignore or downplay them. Thats the Toyota myth. Well not really a myth as Toyotas are well built cars but you get the idea. Most of the Camrys in my family have had problems along the way and most have reached diminishing returns around 150k just like any other brand of car. Even my Ford Taurus made it 156k before I traded it in. It could have easily hit 200k but the A/C broke....and I just needed one reason to get a new car!!! Only one Camry in my family has been trouble free (to 50k). The cars that have held up best in my family are GMs. Buicks have been the most trouble free. Does that mean that Buicks are better? Nope. But it could mean that Buick also makes pretty reliable cars. Better than Toyota? Probably not but they could be just as good. I would always hear about Toyotas getting to 200k and how reliabile they were. The thing is that what most people forget is that most any car can reach that now. After that do you really care???? 20k miles a year for 10 years? Do most people even keep cars that long?
My brother recently and brother in law (seems like forever) are among the die hard BMW clan. They have the interesting ability to ignore O2 sensors that need to be replaced every 15k, stalling problems, phantom check engine lights, and a variety of electrical gremlins. They think that BMWs hold up well. Basically I have this feeling that the masses project what they expect. If you expect reliability you see it. It is the few that that are hyper aware. It the few that frequent the Edmudns boards and complain. Does that mean I would not buy a BMW? Nope. Its a darn fun car that easily worth the headaches and $80-100 (yes one hundred) oil changes after that 36k runs out.
I think the CR data set just reflects peoples expectaions more than anything else. I just dont think its worth that much even if its the best out there. Just because there is no really good data out there we should not settle for suspect data thats "good enough". It just keeps the cycle going. If there is enough demand for a good data set "someone" could compile it. Actually the compile part is easy. Getting the data from the car companies is the hard part. Please keep in mind that I'm only refering to CRs reliability scores. I to like their their test drives and comparisons. I think those are easily as good as any car mag.
I gotta run. see ya folks.
It could mean that people are getting more critical and seeing cars for what they are. It could be because more people are leasing Civics because of high residual value and are not willing to put up with any imperfections during their 3 years. It could be that Honda quality has been going down for the last 5 years or so. I dont know if it has or not I'm just making a point. Or it could be just a statistical aberration. Or first model year problems. Or the sign of something bigger. I really dont know because its all based on surveys. Several things could be adding up to that result. Even in my test drive of the new Civic I thought it was a step sideways at best and probably step back for Honda. I think the last generation was better. Perhaps if more people call it as they see it there will be no need to get the "raw" data.
Still does not mean that the Civic is not reliable or average or great. It could mean that the people filling out the survey were cranky that day. Thats my major problem. Its just a survey so when things change its difficult to know why. The "why" is what counts.
The report that started this thread was with respect to owner's ratings, in terms of defects per 100 cars as reported in a survey, not in terms of defects reported from any repair facility or warranty claims or something like that. I suspect the average reliability rating given to the Civic by CR has much more to do with the later than the former. I don't know, though - can anyone enlighten us on this? For the owner's survey, Honda (not the Civic specifically, but Honda as a whole) finished near the top.
By the way, how does CR rate the Protege in terms of reliability? - the normal CR reliability ratings system, not the referenced owner survey which only reports results for Mazda as a whole
I think, on average, these kinds of things more or less cancel out. That's why a large sample is so important. It's still not as good as a more direct measure, but I think it's far, far better than useless.
http://homepage.mac.com/tboggs/PhotoAlbum2.html
Mike
I miss driving my Pro, though. I do get the luxury of picking out a different car twice a month at the National Emerald Isle when I'm on the road. Mostly GM sedans. I keep dreaming and hoping to find a Corvette sitting there ready to snag for a week!
I had two things happen over the last month. First, I had a flat thanks to the Twin Cities Parade of Homes. My wife and I were looking at new model homes, so I suspect that's where I took the nail in the rear tire. Right by the sidewall, too, so they couldn't repair it.
Second, I had to have my stereo unit replaced. Paul, was it you that had to replace yours in your old 2001 Pro because it ate your CD? I put in a CD, and all it did was spin inside the CD player. None of the CD controls worked. It even kept spinning after shutting off the car. They ended up replacing the unit. Thank God for new car warrantees!
Everything else has been great with the car. With all my traveling, though, I'm not putting too many miles on it. I've got 5700 miles in over 7 months.
"Ratings for models marked with an asterix are based on only one model year because these models are new or redesigned for 2001, or there were insufficient data for more years."
The 2000 book gave the Protege a clear circle for this reason.
Pjd58
Meade
http://www.mazdadiscountparts.com
They sound great. I get much better base from them, and there are actually mid-range and highs coming from the back now which I like (personal preference).
I ordered them as the "Kenwood Rear Speaker Kit" from the "2002 Mazda Protege Performance Accessories" brochure. When they showed up, I was surprised to find that they were not the speakers shown in the brochure. They are actually $200 Kenwood eXcelon KFC-X698s to which Mazda has added a wiring harness that fits the Protege.
They fit fine. They are almost an inch (7/8" I think) taller than the stock speakers which are essentially flat on top. The installation instructions mention removing the "cosmetic" something or other from the tweeter. It didn't clearly illustrate what it was, so I just left the speaker as is, and it fit with millimeters to spare. There is definitely more room back there than Crutchfield leads one to believe. I am not horribly upset at this since I got such a sweet deal on the speakers from Mazda. Even if I had gotten them from my local dealer I would have only paid $155. That is $45 less than Crutchfield's "discounted" price.
One note for those replacing the rear speakers. When removing the stock Pioneers, do not pull up on the speaker to remove it. Pull it towards you instead. There is a little glue that hold the speakers down. If you pull up, when the glue lets go, you could end up damaging your rear-window defroster or tinted windows if you have them. I was lucky that I had my hand in the right place otherwise I would definitely have had to get my rear window re-tinted. As it was, I whacked (technical term) my knuckles on the window once before figuring this out. You will also need a shorty or 90 degree phillips head screw driver to remove and replace the 2 rear screws on each speaker. I did not have one, so I had to improvise with my socket set and a a multi head screw driver set I happened to have. It took much longer than necessary.
Dinu