Mazda Protegé

nematode

We pay about $1400 a year for a 2001 Protege ES 2.0 and a 2000 Subaru Outback Limited. Both full coverage and $500 deductable through Progressive.

Vitals:
Both north or 30 years old and live in the Midwest(Missouri).

1 accident for my wife when she was 17yo and probably does not factor in

2 speeding tickets for me but one was in 1988 and the other in 1995. The one in 88 was taken off my record through legal channels. The one in 95 was a big one but has also been expunged using similar legal funny stuff. It was my first week with a 3000GT VR-4 and it was totally worth it. I dont think they count anymore.

No tickets, accidents, or claims since 1995 when I decided to go back to school. The only thing of note is a cracked windsheild caused by a rock which Progressive fixes for free (just seals the crack).

When we lived in South Jersey and in Philadelphia we were paying $2000 in both places on a 1990 Grand Am for the absolute minimum required by each state. I think I like the midwest better!!!!!

dsm6

OK. Here's how I see it for me, having already purchased an 02 Pro ES, 5-speed, ES prem. package. Feel free to amend any numbers as you see fit:

I paid about 14,400, for the car. If I sell it late this summer, when the MS3 comes out, it will have about 12,000 miles on it. I figure it will be worth about 13,000. Maybe its worth more, but then again 14400 is lower than typical for the selling price. So, that's 1,400 lost in depreciation. This is probably actually on the low end of this cost - but that's where I'm at. Again, amend as you see fit.

I figure the MP3 will cost around 20k. Again, amend as you see fit, but that makes the difference in initial cost of the cars about 5,600 plus the 1,400 depreciation = 7,000 total difference. For just the power upgrades represented by the MS3 over my Pro ES, even if it comes with a factory warranty, I'm guessing that $7,000 would more than cover it. I'm guessing I could upgrade the breaks along with it, possibly the suspension too if I did some of the work myself.

This is all just speculation, of course. We shall see. YMMV

Besides, it's really a moot point for me 'cause I can't afford to put any more money in this car. Fun to think about, though. Well, actually, its torture. ;-)

mazdafun

You got that right. Fun and torture to think about. Same with computers, although the price tags are a bit smaller.

maltb

true you don't NEED it, but it helps to keep you off the sidewalk when winding 5000rpms. Hmmm, Saab Viggen comes to mind.

dsm6

Yes, it would be nice. On the other hand, we're only talking 155 lb-ft of torque. The Viggen has, what, about 260 lb-ft - that makes for a bit more torque-steer than we'd get. It be nice for powering out of corners, too. I still had money left over in my mock budget, so maybe I'd upgrade that part of the drivetrain too.

nematode

NOS. 1/10 the cost but its not very flexable.

I'm keeping my ES totally stock. Its fine the way it is (for me) as a daily commuter. Anyway as I keep telling my friends....A little more power does not interest me BUT a lot more does.

It was the same thing with the Subaru VDC H6 3.0 when it came out. My wife wanted to trade her car in for the H6. It was supposed to have 212hp compared to my wifes 165hp H4 2.5 so we test drove it. Yea, it has a little more power and the VDC system is neat. Still, in my final analysis its was totally overpriced relative to the H4 and no way its making 200+ hp. Its probably closer to 190hp or at least it acts like it. We only paid $26k for out Ltd and the VDC was selling for $31k ($32k MSRP) the time.

Another thing with the aftermarket turbo is:
Does it actually do what it says it does????

I know Jackson Racing makes a kit for the Focus thats supposed to get it to something like 170hp but when tested it just did not do what it was supposed to. Did Road and Track do that test? I forget. I saw it at Jiffy Lube while waiting for my car. I like the idea of 30-40 more "real" hp but I'm not sure how many people are going to shell out $3-5k for it. $1k I could see myself doing it but above that???? The Protege is a nice car but to invest that kind of cash in a $15k car? I dont know how many people would do that.

dsm6

so I probably wouldn't do anything to it unless I could get it warrantied, and could be relatively certain it has been designed to be reliable - hence the attraction of a factory kit emulating the MS3. Hence no NOS as well. As far as real life performance, I'm guessing the 40 hp and 20 lb-ft of torque on the MS3 will be noticeable, but it still won't be ripping up the road any. That is a fairly moderate gain for the money, especially if not taken along with its upgraded suspension, wheels, and tires, in factory bolt-ons.

I'd probably also skip the suspension upgrades - might be a bit too stiff as a daily driver - I'd have to try out an MS3 or MP3 to see, but sadly no one has offered to let me take a spin in an MP3. :-(

Really, anybody out there with an mp3 - I don't need to drive it - just ride in it while you drive. :-)

gandalf17

OKay, back now. Thanks for the kind words regarding the ankle. I will try and take care of it, but I'm a typical stubborn man if you know what i mean...

I guess we won't know what the Mazdaspeed Turbo Pro is really like power and driving wise, until the reviews come out and a few of us either buy it or test drive it. With only 2,000 available models, I doubt anyone will get to test drive one unless they have put a deposit down to purchase. I would think Canada will get about 10% of the 2,000, so we will have an even harder time getting hold of one.

I really would like to see Mazda add this car as part of their everyday Protege line-up. Either that, or introduce a Protege that can hit 180HP or so, in a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engine. There is a huge market segment out there for tuned-out cars. This could be Mazda's equivalent of the Civic SiR. The Protege is a damn fine car, but it does need more power. They should make a version of this car generally available as an upscale sport version. Certainly more than just 2000 models...

gandalf17

Can I get one of those to fit on my Callaway golf clubs? I could use the extra turbo boost on my drives...

maltb

that is a bit more of a sleeper. If it looks like a race car, it better be able to prove it. However, if it looks like an econobox, you decide when it's time to race.

dsm6

I too like sleepers. I don't need to shout out "racer" everywhere I go. I'm too old for that, and it attracts attention I don't care to get. Besides, looks are a personal thing, so let the person buying the car spend his or her money as he or she sees fit to upgrade a cars looks in a personalized way.

gandalf17

doesn't really look all that "racer" to me. There's not a huge difference between this car and the ES sedan. Basically, it has all the same body moldings and external add-ons as the MP3 and has the turbo and intercooler under the hood. Nobody is going to know about the brakes et. all. This car is a sleeper much as the WRX is. A lot of people in Domestic muscle cars or who do not know much about the WRX, don't think it is as fast as it truly is. It's incredibly deceiving to most.

Mind you, the orange colour makes it look far more "boyracer" and like an aftermarket Hondo paint-job. Black on this car would just be sweet..... I think it would be very sleek and athletic looking.

protege_fan

Speaks my language

nematode

I like wagons and minivans. My dream car (currently) is the Audi RS8 Avant which is not sold in the US. 450hp, AWD, twin-turbo, and yes, it can be had as a wagon. Since I cannot get that I'm saving for an S6 Avant.

If a AWD 300hp Mazda MPV minivan existed I would rather have that. It could easily be done. Strap a twin-turbo setup (non-sequential) on the 200hp Duratech and steal the X-type AWD system from Ford. The Duratech V6 could easily make 300hp. Even with just variable valve timing it makes about 230hp. Probably could make 350-400 if you pushed the whole system but lets just pretend 300hp is enough. Nothing too fancy, 6spd, 17in rims, lowered about 1in, no wings or super low ground effects, HUGE 4 piston vented cross-drilled disc brakes on all four. Sell it for $45k as the MPX. Can you imagine? It just takes vision. Some would claim the deranged vision of a madman......but a vision.

Oh yea, I almost forgot...if Mazda is going to go to 200hp with the Protege eventually then I think they should go RWD or AWD. Even with the limited slip nothing beats RWD for crazy fun and AWD for balance. FWD does have that warm friendly understeer that most people (myself included) like but to me its just not as much fun.

dinu01

Quoting Meade's svc. tally:

Parts: $48.80
Labor: $206.50 (3.5 hours @ $59/hour)
"Shop Supplies": $5.00
Tax: $2.42
Total: $262.72

I can't believe he paid $2.42 in taxes! If I apply Ontario's 15% tax, that's $40 in taxes instead of $2.

I paid $3.000 taxes on the Protege!!! Makes me wanna scream. $3K! WTF?

MS: Looks identical to the MP3. Nice car that I wouldn't mind having. I like sleepers too. I especially like the PRO's pick-up on the highway. I can take it from 2500RPMs to 4000RPMs and leave soooo many behind.

Neon, Focus, Crapalier/Sunfire, Daewoo, Kia: All are POS cars. Don't just mention the Neon. The others need to be "recognized" also.

Cheers!~
Dinu

Going ZOOM-ZOOMing until 7PM.

bpi

Sales tax is levied only on the parts and shop supplies. He paid 4.5%. You pay tax on the labor in Canada?

seminole_kev

but I think some of you guys are suffering a little delusion that used to only effect the Honda boys. Pro is a great small car. But it's not the end all to be all of the small car market. I know I'll get my back end flamed off for this post, but I wasn't trying to tick off you guys. Just pointing out a few who seemed to have lost touch with reality.

dsm6

on 0-60 times for the Mazdaspeed 3? No money, just for yucks. We'll have to agree upon a testing source, though.

bpi

Seems like EVERY board has a few who think their choice is unbeatable. Some even go to other boards to spread the words.:)

maltb

There is none better! A Protege is better than sex.

btw, that's an old quote that was said elsewhere about a certain other car with a bow tie on the hood.

Seriously Kev, who said the Pro was the finest thing on 4 wheels?

bpi

"...who said the Pro was the finest thing on 4 wheels?"
Vocus used to.:)

maltb

do you know Lemko?

chicagopro

nope...should I?

maltb

he's the one that penned those words about his Impala.

chicagopro

You have got be fkiddin me.

maltb

and no I'm not!

narenji

I think this could be a good car to compete with the Focus SVT, Honda Civic Si, Sentra SE-R, but I don't know how affordable it'll be. I have a WRX wagon, and it really hauls with 227hp and AWD. 170-200hp is probably the limit for front drive cars, as torque steer will be bad, as it is for the 240hp Altima/Maxima. Does the Protege have a awd chassis anywhere in the world? I think they should tone it down a little, like the WRX. The only assertive part of the WRX are its headlights. Nobody noticed my WRX until I changed the exhaust a little. Now that you can hear that boxer burble, people notice it more.

Congrats to everyone for the 900+ posts I had to read to catch up.

dinu01

Rite... Did Lemko really say that? I thought he has a Cadillac. I suspect this might be coming from Teo rather than Lemko. Who cares, really.

The PRO is a great small car, the greatest for the under $20.000 CDN that you can have in NA at the moment. Maybe in the future there will be other great cars, bnut now the PRO reigns.

I know it's not a WRX, but it is the WRX of this segment.

Dinu

zoomzoom79

140+ posts in a day is ridiculous. You better be thankful that Internet access is unlimited now or you would all be driving 1986 Hyundai Excels (if you could find this many of them still running).

So gandalf has a hurt ankle does he? He needs a bigger car like a LS400 and then those injuries wouldn't occur.

MazdaSpeed3 only 170hp????? I dunno. Seems like they could've done better out of a turbo/sc 2.0L. And only 2000 being produced?

vocus is still catching flak for buying the Jetta. Will the torture ever end??

Tire talk was replaced with insurance talk. By the way we pay $1000 per 6 months for full coverage on our 94 LS400, 96 Civic, and my new SI ...

Yes, I picked it up tonight!!! I know you all don't care and consider me an ungrateful traitor but I don't give half a hoover dam. I love this friggin car. I was however a bit sad as I watched them pull the Pro back and take the plates off. Good news is I can see who buys her and sabotage the deal if I don't think they are worthy.

But let me get back off-topic ... have I said that I love my SI? The slick gear box, smooth engine, and awesome suspension make this one fun car to drive. I still haven't hit the 8000 RPM redline but I'm sure I will in the near future. An added bonus, after 60 miles my gas hand has barely moved and that's with some not-so-tame driving. Now I have to decide whether to purchase the extended warranty through my credit union. It's $900 for 36 months/80,000 miles with no deductible, roadside, towing, rental car, and wear-and-tear coverage. I'd be interested in your opinions on this.

newcar31

Congrats on the new car! I'm with you on the new Protege turbo. Although I wouldn't mind 170 hp, it's a little tame for a 2.0L turbo. The VW 1.8T only made 150 hp when it came out, so I don't think 170 hp is THAT bad, but still. I also don't like the fact that they are only building 2000. I really don't like the fact that you have to get the starched out pilaf version in order to get a turbo. This is what Mazda SHOULD have done: Have the N/A 2.0L be the standard motor on all Proteges and offer the 170 hp turbo motor as an option on the ES and P5 and build a special edition version (Mazdaspeed 3) with 210 or so hp with all the wacky starchy fun stuff. One last thing: Why didn't Mazda use the same turbo motor that they use in Japan? What's up with all this Callaway hoo haa?

browntrout1

Seriously. Protege's are relatively light cars. 2.0L already has pretty good torque down low and the turbo will give it the extra juice in the higher RPM's. This will be no WRX burner but I'm pretty sure it'll give some Honda's, Acura's, and Nissan's a run for their money.

Wait till a magazine does a comparison test of some of these vehiles on a track. MS3 will be an exellent track car. It's not meant to be a drag racer. I'm thinking it'll pull low to mid 15's in the quarter. If that's the case, those are pretty respectable numbers. They did mention that it has a closer ratio transmission somewhere from what I remember.

dinu01

Coming from an anemic 1.5l 106hp Civic, I find the PRO has plenty of power. So why aren't 170 hp enough? It's 40 more than what I now drive. That's a BIG improvement!

Dinu

th83

The MS3 should get a lot of praise from the press. C/D has said nothing but good things about the handling of the MP3 with the only complaint being the lack of power compared to the competition. It beat out the SE-R Spec V, Jetta 1.8T, Neon R/T, and Impreza 2.5RS with only 140HP(C/D November '01), so 170HP should put it even farther ahead. The MS3 will have very little competition. It's too bad(not for Mazda) there aren't more sporty small sedans out there. The Pro pretty much has that genre to itself.

BTW, I sat inside a friends new Pro today and I must say I'm impressed with it. It was only a DX but the quality of the interior really surprised me. I'm really interested in the Pro but I'm having trouble with the thought of losing power in the transition from my current car, a '91 Acura Legend, to a Pro. I haven't driven a Pro yet so I don't know exactly how much difference there is. I have an automatic now and want my next car to be as well. I know power isn't everything but it helps. I might be willing to give up the extra power for a car that handles well and is fun to drive(like the Pro).

I have a few questions:

What are the suspension differences between the LX and the ES? I know the ES has 16" wheels but that couldn't make that much of a difference, or does it?

Is there a big difference in their handling characteristics? The reason I ask is I like the looks of the LX better because I don't really care to have a spoiler, metallic interior trim or tinted headlights. All I know is that it has to have a sunroof.

I really enjoy reading this board and I look forward to your knowledgeable responses! Thank you.

Tom

protegenic

made me do a little research on double-clutching yesterday. Tried it out on the way home. I really liked how you can eliminate the engine braking on the downshift, but man, I have to say this is not the most intuitive move I have tried! I guess it gets easier with practice, but I have new respect for drivers who do this often.

That said, using the clutch more in Atlanta than I already have to is probably not what I want to do...unless I want Popeye calves!

ZZ79-Great to hear you like the new ride so much. I'm sure you will have a ball in it and I hope you continue to lurk around here.

zoomzoom79

enough to double clutch. One clutch is about all my brain has the capability for

pjd58

Happy Good Friday! The kids are off from school and I took a vacation day:)
Things seemed to get a little heated last night. When someone comes to our FRIENDLY board and bashes our Pros, it will ruffle some feathers, including mine.Iget really PO when someone tells me I made the wrong choice. I could careless what someone else drives, I know I made the right choice. Just don't force feed me your choice and tell us were basically jerks for owning Pros.

I certainly don't agree with every opinion on this board, but respect other's opinion and enthusiasm for their Protege. Anyone who goes to any board and trashes their choice of transportation, has serious issues and needs take a look at their character.

Pjd58(Pete)

rbrooks3

OK, you guys are KILLING me! All this WRX talk. We have to stop, it's bad enough I drive by a Subaru dealershhip every day. I keep seeing that blue WRX sedan and for weeks now I've heard it calling to me. I think they're great cars with a lot of aftermarket tuning capabilities, but the price was a bit too high for me. Now you guys don't let me forget it. Plus, when I was looking a few months ago, all the dealers I found here in NY with some in stock were LOADED to the headliner in options. I mean EVERYTHING was in them. The price tags were staggering when you looked back at the original MSRP.

On another note, anyone have to get parts for an 02 Pro (other than an oil filter or something like that)? I called the dealer to find out what the deal was on my cruise control unit. It's been one week and the dealer said they have no idea when the parts might be in. They said it could be weeks to a month.

You might also keep an eye out for supercharger kits for the Pro. Many companies are starting to make full kits. Even a low pressure 6psi kit, if done properly gains 40% on output. They are also much easier to install, run much lower temps and are cheaper than turbo kits. I just helped a friend put one on his car and it took 5 hours, everything was engineered to fit perfectly with his A/C pulleys and power steering pump. And the car rocks now. Instant hp at any speed. The only extra maintenance he has now is to change the oil in the blower every 2500-3000 miles.

Ron B.

newcar31

What kind of car did you put the supercharger on?

browntrout1

...try heal-toe shifting. It's quite a bit more involved and almost impossible to do with winter boots on. The pedals in the Protege are not set up that great for this.

chicagopro

...we're never going to stay on top with a measly couple of posts per hour.

Meade, what are you doing? WORK???!!!???

And Tommy (th83) gave y'all a perfectly good question to respond to...post #10655. If I were in any way knowledgable, I would try to answer it myself. Off the top of my head, it seems I remember folks here saying that the ES is a stiffer ride than the LX.

(Can we tell who has the day off from work?

--Dale

protegenic

Forget about it! It takes a great deal of feel to get your revs just right. Its great when it works, but when it doesn't, it sounds really bad!

pjd58, I know what you mean about someone telling you they think our car is a no good. Its like someone saying I told you so. I hate that. I try not to ever be critical of the car someone chooses for that very reason. And I'm sorry, but when you go to a particular car's forum and trash it, what do you expect! When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

chicagopro

As you can see, I've exhausted the supply of flags that I can claim. There was a rumor that there were some Romanian and/or Lithuanian folks on my dad's side, but that's never been confirmed. Sorry!

the_big_h

well I'll try to. As far as I'm concerned, the only suspension difference between the ES and the LX are the wheels and the rear disk brakes. Everything else I believe is the same.

Past comments from this board have indicated that the ES's ride is quite a bit firmer than the LX. Best bet is drive both and let your rear end do the testing

Now can everyone actually help someone with a question about Proteges???

newcar31

If I recall, the ES has stiffer anti-roll bars too.

sfrat

The ES does have the 16" wheels and I think it also has thicker stablizer bars (or is it swaybars). I think the ES is slightly stiffer than the LX, but the general consensus seems to be that the the Pro has a fairly stiff ride across the lineup. I like the ES, it maybe a bit stiffer, but the sharp handling is worth it, I think. Edmunds did a first drive article for the 2001 ES which went into some detail on the suspension enhancements in the ES. I would assume this would carry through for 02.

Hopefully someone else will be able to chime in with more info, or correct me if I'm wrong.

In other news, I got my oil changed in my Pro yesterday (at about 4.5k miles since last one). I can't belive I'll be taking it in for the 15k mile service probably sometime this summer. I paid 19.99 for the oil change as they are having a service special at Congressional Mazda in Rockville. With an online coupon.

the_big_h

that's a great price considering they're right in the middle of Rockville.

seminole_kev

where did I "trash" the Protege? I've bought two cars in the last two years and the Protege has been right at the top two both times. I'm glad everyone likes their Pro. I like the Pro also and that's why I stop here and post from time to time. What I don't like is the "Oh brand X's so and so is total crap compaired to the Pro" talk. I think it's silly, but I guess I was out of line. Sorry to have affended some here. If you've read any of my posts in the "news and views" you'd know I'm not a troll and I tend to be pretty reasonable. Consider this my formal appology. I would have understood some of the responses if I had been like:

"YO Boy your Pro is weak and my '92 Plymouth Sundance can blast your doors off even though its only runnin' on three clynders!" ;-)

Sorry for poking a stick in a wasp's nest

seminole_kev

Teo owns the Impala and made the famous "better than" statement. Lemko's the Caddy guy.

sfrat

Deal Expires May 1. All you have to do is print it out. Plus I didn't even have an appointment. I had a dr's appt, and decided to not go into work since it was getting late, and pointless. So I called them up at about 3, and they were able to squeeze me in. I was pretty happy. My other choice would have been to drop off my car sometime during the week and then pick it up after work. For those in the area, they do have a shuttle that runs every 1/2 from the Rockville Metro. Pretty convient.

I also looked at the new Protege's there. I really like the P5, they had a vivid yellow one loaded with everything but the leather and auto. I didnt' see any of that new sport shift though.

dinu01

Yep, GREAT, not just good.

Dale: I see that. I guess we're back to our regular stylz then. Did you continue chatting much longer last nite?

Tom: Apart from the tires, there is NO difference in the way the susp. is different in the LX and ES. Try both of them out though. The PRO is stifer than other cars on this class. Personally that was one of my top 3 criteria why I chose it as I like a stiffer ride>see better handling. The PRO is really fun to drive. Many folks around here can confirm, they end up taking the long way home when they're in their PROs. I guess that says something about it. I have a 2001 ES (Canadian Spec) and the interior is great IMO. The black cloth sporty seats did it for me. I did not consider a DX (badged as an SE here in Canada) since I wanted the 2.0 engine. Nevetheless, drive a PRO on different roads (city, high speed highways, twisty roads (my fav)) and see how you like it. The price on it is really good (cheaper than a Saturn, Civic and the same as the Crapalier) and if you have your info prepared and set on getting it, the dealers will help you get a good deal on them. Good luck! BTW, check back Tuesday since most folks use this from work.

DOUBLE-CLUTCHING: Can someone explain please? I know how heal-toe could be done as I see it on rally races, but it does look pretty challenging, especially if you have an automatic

Dinu