Mazda Protegé

fowler3

holding the Jetta so Paul won't screw-up something else while the part comes in. LOL!

fowler3

vocus

That's too funny. I don't mind having a loaner, because it gives me a chance to drive something different (I always have liked the Beetles) while my car's in the shop. It's also cool to be able to put mileage on someone else's car for awhile instead of mine. Since my car has been in the shop (not out yet either), I have put a total of 2000 miles on the loaners I have had. I am going to Chicago in a week, so maybe I will be lucky and be able to take the loaner instead of my car. We shall see. I know I will be bringing the Beetle to MAPP, which sucks. I really, really wanted to show my Jetta to you all. I will bring pics though, if that helps.

vocus

Turns out the rattle in the dashboard was a loose screw in the side defroster vent. I heard the noise coming from there, but didn't say anything about it because I was not sure.

Everyone always said I had a loose screw, and it took a VW mechanic to finally find it after all these years!

mdaffron

MAPP III: FOUR DAYS!!!!

Wooo-hooo!!!! ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM

Meadeball

mdaffron

Is it me, or is Richmond, Virginia the sole surviving city in today's nuclear attack?

WHERE THE HECK DID EVERYBODY GO???

Meade

protege_fan

Nah...no nuclear holocaust in Canada yet. But we are expecting rain/snow soon. Keep your nuclear winter to yourselves please!

When is the air filter on the Pro due to be changed? 48 000 km? Can't recall off the top of my head.

mdaffron

Mine was in the maintenance schedule (and got changed) at 30,000 miles. Something tells me that's the same as 48,000 km.

Am I correct, hosehead?

;-)

Meade

newcar31

Uh, sorry, if we have nuclear winter, you will too....ha ha ha ha ha

Besides, I can't see how a nuclear winter could be that much worse than the regular winters in Canada.

protege_fan

48 000 km is pretty dang close to 30 000 miles. I thought the air filter was due pretty much after 2 years, I just wanted to double check. Thanks Meade...Now take off, eh?

protege_fan

Haha! Well, at least we get a bit of sun in the winter...even if it is so cold out! Nuclear winter=no sun

Todd, you ever notice your Pro acting differently in your winters?

mdaffron

But I must admit, for 12 bucks, I'm gonna be changing my air filter every 10,000 miles! You wouldn't believe how dirty mine was. Even completely clogged in one corner. You'd think I'd been off-roading in my Protege. Couldn't believe ANY air was making it to the engine. There were some nasty little critters in there too! Poor bugs ...

;-)

Meade

protege_fan

Actually the other reason was, and this is gonna sound weird, that I felt like my Pro wasn't breathing as well as it could when I've taken it out for a drive the last week or so. I keep on meaning to check the air filter, but keep on forgetting.

mdaffron

I hesitated for a few months because I thought there was more to it than what there is. (My previous vehicle, a 1994 B2300, required a stupid socket driver to remove the air filter housing.) You just unsnap two clips, pull open the housing, slip the old one out, wipe out the housing, and slip the new one in. Took all of two minutes in the driveway. And they even left enough slack in the MAF sensor harness so I didn't have to unplug anything!

Meade

protege_fan

That's all I thought it would be. I was actually thinking of changing to a K&N filter just for a little difference in sound in the engine..not that I don't like the engine now. Just a little change would be interesting to try.

newcar31

No different than any of the other cars I've had in the winter....meaning that when you first start it, it sounds like the head is going to blow right off the engine. Clatter, clatter, clatter. I hear some people call this the Protege "death rattle". I call it normal as my Prelude and Integra both sounded horrid when cold.

seminole_kev

I've owned sounds like crap when it's cold out and it hasn't been running long.

protege_fan

I've never had the death rattle (knock on wood). I remember somebody posting an mp3 file of the sound...it was horrendous.

newcar31

You probably do have the "death rattle" and don't even know it.

protege_fan

I don't think so. My pro is pretty quiet when I turn the engine on. And, like I said, I listened to that file somebody had posted....it was highly noticeable.

mdaffron

I haven't noticed any inordinate rattle in the mornings with my 2000 ES either. You guys using the appropriate motor oil for your climate?

Meade

protege_fan

newcar31

It isn't really a rattle. It's valve train clatter and I'd be surprised if your two cars DIDN'T do it. I use 10W30 synthetic year round...

protege_fan

Ok....I'm not sure what a valve train clatter sounds like, but my car doesn't make any unusual bangs, hisses, etc. What does a valve train clatter sound like anyway???

The death rattle I heard (in that file) was absolutely brutal. It sounded like the car was shaking apart. I know I don't have that for sure.

mazdafun

Depends on how dusty it is around you. I usually replace mine every 10-12,000 miles. The manual says to inspect every 15,000 and replace every 30,000, but there's a lot of construction dust and pollen around here. Apparently, Meade is surrounded by swarms of bugs.

I do notice one end gets dirtier first. Since I'm cheap, I turned the filter around and replaced it when it looked evenly dirty. Probably not the best thing for performance.

mdaffron

But don't flip it!!!!

Meade

mdaffron

And believe me, after owning a B2300 built by Ford, I KNOW what valve clatter sounds like. Plagued me the whole time I owned the piece of junk. And no, neither the 2000 ES nor the 2002 Protege5 do it at startup or any other time. For that matter, neither of my 92s did either. Maybe it's related to humidity or something -- it's very humid down here in Virginia.

Meade

newcar31

It's very humid here in the summer too. My car doesn't "clatter" that bad, but you can hear it. Pro-fan, valve train clatter sounds kinda like a diesel engine and should only happen for a couple seconds immediatly after you start it. I don't know how Meade's car doesn't do it, maybe Meade has some kind of super duper oil pump that gets oil to the head nano seconds after the engine is fired.

fowler3

Besides, I can't see how a nuclear winter could be that much worse than the regular winters in Canada.

Nuclear winter is when it snows for days, it's HOT, but the snow doesn't melt. Everything else does.

fowler3

protege_fan

Ouch! Sounds like nature did a job on your paint!

I would ask that question over in the "store bought waxes Part II - No zaino posts" forum here at Townhall. They have some very knowledgeable people over in that area of TH.

In regards to the low fuel light, mine comes on with about 8 L left in the tank.

rae52

i enjoy the back and forth 'busting chops' that Mdaffron & Vocus start every now and then. Don't stop, you two are hillarious!

sfrat

Meade-I've waited until the last minute in hopes I could do both, but its not going to work out. Unfortunately I will not be able to attend MAPP this time around. I'm definately up for it in the fall if we decide to do it. I'm having a bachelor party for a friend that Saturday, and I was stuck with the date because its the only date he was free.

Also, the other part of what I wanted to say concerned Russell Mazda (and VW, Toyota, Subaru and BMW). I bought and have had my car serviced at Russell Mazda and had a good experience with the service department there on the Mazda side, even though it was just an oil change. I've also dealt with Congressional Mazda (they also sell VW's, what's up with that connection?!), and they're Mazda service is good as well.

My point, is that I think its the dealer more than the brand. You might get extra pampering if you drive a BMW, Mercedes, or Audi. But basically the Mazda and VW competes in a similar market currently, and I think its the dealership that makes the difference. Also, VW/Audi has taken quite a bit of flack for poor dealer networks. They've really been popular these last couple of years, and the dealerships can't keep up with the service demand. I just read that on an Audi enthusiast site, and it makes sense.

Also, mandatory pro content, its running great, and I washed and waxed it last weekend.

Steve

yooper53

Try calling Meguiar's at (800) 347-5700. They have a help line (tech support) that I've found helpful in the past. Their products are pretty decent.

newcar31, chicagopro re: my rust bucket from awhile back. Two body shops said the same thing-brakedust corrosion from the roads. First I ever heard of that. Another bloody enviro-hazard to put up with. Two different suggestions from Meguiars. 1) Clay with Quick-Detailer and 2) Medallion Premium Paint Cleaner. A third from the body shop was rubbing compound (done by hand) followed by polishing compound followed by carnuba wax. Rubbing compound makes me real nervous, clay somewhat less nervous... Would someone who's used clay or rubbing compounds please advise me on these two products. Many thanks.
Dennis

protege_fan

I've never actually used clay but as I understand it, the clay's function is to remove surface contaminants. If used correctly, it is non-abrasive.

A rubbing compound is used to remove light surface scratches/imperfections.

To use clay, you spray a lubricant (many prefer a quick detailer type of product)on the surface you are going to work on, and the lightly rub the clay over the surface, frequently folding it into itself to expose a clean surface. After you do this, feel the paint. It should be smooth to the touch, otherwise there is still surface contamination. You should at least wax after claying.

A rubbing compound is something I also hesitate to use and therefore haven't. I think it would be very easy to rub too much and get yourself into trouble (ie. create more scratches).

dermen

I went to the Mazda dealer near me and I saw a protege for the first time and now I want one. They had a silver ES with a manual, premium package, alarm, wheel locks, and 6 disc in dash changer. There was a sale price in the window that said $15,495. I went back the next week to test drive it and the sale sign was gone and the price of the car is now $20,000. And I got there 1 minute after they had closed so I didn't get to drive it. I have to sell my truck before I can buy a new car. But I don't want to pay $20,000 for this car. I am guessing that mazda had some kind of rebate and I was wondering if it is still going on and when it ends? I would really love this car it has everything I want. But I was looking for a used car in the $14,000 range and I don't want to pay any more than $15,500 for a car.

mdaffron

Steve, sorry to hear you can't make it. It's sad seeing a few of the folks I'm really fond of (you and Larry, to name a couple) not able to make it to the picnic. However, having done this three times now, I've learned it's just not possible to fit EVERYBODY'S schedule. Like I said yesterday, we've got just about twice as many cars and people as MAPP II last October, so it's gonna be fun. (Geesh, if we keep this rate going and MAPP IV has twice as many folks as this one, we're gonna have to start looking into renting convention centers ... ROFL!)

Paul ... (dare I bring this up -- Pat's "Meade & Paul Warning Light" just lit up, lol) -- sorry to hear the Jetta will be spending MAPP in the shop. Believe it or not (and I know you know I'm being honest for once), I really wanted to see your car to understand more why you're so passionate about it. Oh well, I've been wanting to take a closer look at the New (?) Beetle too. What color is the one you're driving? If it's yellow, my wife's gonna melt -- I had a hard time talking her out of one when we were shopping for the P5.

To all -- Paul and I like going nose to nose on stuff. I don't know why; maybe we're kindred spirits when it comes to a good debate. We aren't ever (at least I know I'm not) mad at each other. You oughta see some of the e-mails we send each other sometimes, at the same time we're duking it out here. In respect to the Member Agreement and our poor Pat who's trying to stop smoking (i.e. tension level running in the red, understandably), I am voluntarily moving our debates. We're gonna try the Protege Posse topic first, and if they don't like us there, we'll find somewhere else or maybe just go to private e-mails. Things are too fun here to mess up the Protege topic. We'll just have to watch how we communicate with each other, because it doesn't take much -- as you've probably noticed -- to start us up! The moment we see a need to debate, we'll post where we're taking it. So you can all come along and have a great time watching us.

Valve clatter -- nope guys, I'm honest. I specifically listened for it this morning. My engine starts very smoothly and quietly -- after the starter finishes its "ditditditdit" and it turns over, that is! You guys who are experiencing it aren't by chance starting your cars with your foot on the accelerator, are you? Just a thought --

One more thing, to those of you who are coming to MAPP -- we still have a few odds and ends -- not much -- that we need to bring. In particular, I need someone to volunteer to pick up and bring four or five packs of hot dogs. I'd get them, but I'm already bringing everything but the kitchen sink. There's a list of what's needed in the latest update on the Yahoo group (message number 2420). Thanks.

Everybody have a great day!

Meade

mdaffron

You wouldn't consider allowing a "Paul and Meade's Everything Automotive" topic in the Town Hall, would you? It would be great -- we'd be the Tom and Ray of the Town Hall! People would become members in droves! We'd be famous! We'd start a radio show!

:-)

Meade

mazdafun

Check out Edmund's TMV to price out a Pro. Sounds like they had a good sale price on it. The 20k sounds like MSRP (actually, a little higher, I think). I think Mazda still has 1,500 cash back OR 0% for 24 months. Some dealers heap on their own discount. And, if your employer offers the Ford X-plan, they likely offer the Mazda S-plan, which is a little under dealer invoice (which you can find on Edmund's as well).

chicagopro

You know who you are, and what it's for.

Oh, happy day.

--Dale

newcar31

Go back to the dealership and tell them you'll buy it for the sale price they had in the window before. If you say you'll buy it, they'd most likely sell it to you at that price. They were already willing to sell it at that price, so it's worth a shot.

vocus

The NB I am driving is white with grey leatherette interior. I wish I had my car back too, but I have not heard anything about it as of yet. I was going to bring my friend's '94 Cougar, but since you wanna see the NB I will bring it. But no pushing it in the river though!

newcar31

It's OK to push beetles into the river. They float...for a while.

dagpotter

I bought a Protege5 yesterday. Mazda has $600 rebate + $750 dealer cash. I paid 15400 for one with the old automatic, alarm, 6 CD changer, floor mats. If you prefer you can get 2.9% instead of the 750.

dsm6

In addition to any other rebates Mazda is offering, Mazda also offers 500 for recent grads. A reminder about this type of rebate: it is from Mazda to you (not all are this way) and is therefore between Mazda and you (though typically it is taken out of the price of the car and given to the dealer in the end, technically speaking), so don't let that dealer push up the price of that car one bit just because of the rebate.

In my area (don't know about yours, but guessing it is similar), a Pro ES sedan should go for right around invoice. In other words, MSRP around here would be too much to pay, let alone $20,000! (IMO of course)

protege_fan

Here is a post from another forum I thought would be handy for all to see:

2.0L Engine Noise
This is what Mazda has to say about it, I think we should push them to come up with a fix faster, come on it has been a problem since the middle of 2000! What do you think? I would like someone to explain the jargon that they use VTCS plates? what are there function? What does ECT stand for and what is its function? Also they use the term "believed" to be the problem which means they are not sure or are trying to limit their responsability!

The dealer noted the noise and gave me a bulliten from Mazda.

Category: B Piston Engine
Repair Reference # 3562
Subject: 2.0L Engine noise with cold coolant temp

ALL 2.0L between 2001-2002 are affected

Customer may experience an engine rattle under light to moderate acceleration with engine coolant temps below 149 deg F and engine rpm's between 1500 to 2500.

Confirm noise only occurs within the VTCS ( Variable Tumble Control System) operation "valve closed" period (when ECT is below 149 deg F)

This noise is currently believed to be the result of the timing between VTCS plates "opening", and the ignition spark advanc command. This is an operating characteristic of this engine and no repair attempts should be made. Although the noise is present only during cold start up and disappears once the engine coolant reaches 149 degrees F, Mazda realizes that it is an annyance to some customers and its engineers are investigating possible countermeasures in an effort to address customer satisfaction.

Sounds like they are trying to get away from a recall and a problem that will or will not (they don't know)cause damage during warranty!

jcilforever

I know for sure that I don't have the noise that they're talking about. I've read the complaints, and I would be going nuts if it afflicted my Pro.

maltb

You can tell if you have it. Kinda makes the Pro sound like a diesel.

newcar31

"You can tell if you have it."

What do you mean "if"? After reading the post above, it appears that all 2001-2002 vehicles are affected and if it doesn't affect ALL 2.0L vehicles, then something is wrong.

protege_fan

The important line in that post is:

Customer may experience an engine rattle

I think Mazda is saying that it only happens in the '01-02 engines, and in those engines it may happen in some.

newcar31

If only some of the 01-02's exhibit this problem, then that means there is something that needs correction. What would be the difference between the cars that do have the problem and those that don't? When you have the answer to that question, you have the solution to the "problem". See what I'm saying?

protege_fan

I see what you're saying...all I'm saying is that if you go through the forum and read the complaints, I know that I don't have what they're describing. It seriously sounds like a diesel engine or lawn mower...someone even complained that it lasted longer than 2 minutes.

If I have the problem (ie. I don't have the sound), then I'm happy!! That sound is utterly horrifying!

newcar31

Well, something doesn't make sense. Mazda says it's "normal". Well, if it's normal, ALL of them should do it, not just some of them.