Mazda Protegé

newcar31

My brother just bought a 2002 Civic EX and I got to drive it. It only had 60 miles on the odo so I had to drive it nice (meaning I will never be in the powerband). The Civic EX 1.7L has a lot less torque than the 2.0L in the Protege and you can sure feel it when you have to drive it normally. It feels like a slug below 4000 rpm. The steering wheel is thin and feels flimsy. The seats aren't as comfortable. It feels nowhere NEAR as solid as the Protege ES and the tires squeal around corners that my Protege would laugh at. The shift feel isn't anything special IMO and there is a lot more play in the shifter when it's in gear. The car payment is $40 more a month and we both put the same amount down for the same loan term. The insurance is more too. It gets better gas mileage though.

fowler3

That was my impression of the EX when I drove it. That V-Tech thing didn't do all I expected of it when I tromped the throttle. The seats are real butt-pinchers, hard as a rock. The seat cushion is too short front-to-back for drivers over 5'9". When the new model came out I was impressed with the styling. After buying the Protege, the Civic looks toy-like.

dsm6:
"Seems to me that if you're not ever going to push
it at all, you're putting up with its stiffer suspension with no intention of really putting it to use - well, not entirely - I guess it may help to avoid accidents."

You are right to some extent. I have never driven even big cars hard. When sports car drivers drove my cars I noticed they ran them through the gears and reved to the top rpms. I don't like engines making all that noise, don't see the sense of it.

In most cases, I wasn't impressed by their driving skill as much as by my car's abilities and the manufacturer's good quality. If it could take that treatment, I knew I wouldn't harm it. Read reliable.

Some times I do press it, but I have to keep in mind not to get beyond my reflexes and capabilities since I am not use to driving at high speeds. City driving is 99% of my trips with traffic lights every mile or two.

Speaking of driving the 1.8L and the 2.0L, one of the first Pro's I drove was a 2000 1.8L quickly followed by a 2001 2.0L. There was a big difference between the two cars, both LX's. The 2001 was a lot more solid, reflecting the new stiffening. It was better appointed and the seats had been redesigned for better support and comfort. I didn't notice the difference between the two engines, not having reved them up much. The stiff suspension isn't a problem, it softens up by the time you get 3000 miles on it. I rather like it now and really appreciate the car not leaning in curves.

dsm6, we should qualify our suggestions based on the driver's size, age, experience, health, etc.
I'm 72 years old, almost blind in one eye, totally deaf in one ear, arthritic pain most of the time, and an innerear equalibrium problem. I think I'm doing very well driving a "sporty car."

Wonder why the magazines don't test cars that have been broken in, wouldn't that change the standings? Say cars with 3000 miles on them.

fowler3

protegextwo

... choice for cars is Zerex G-05. "I've got a 20-year history that says this really works." Zerex does most of its business with new-car manufacturers, developing antifreeze for the industry's evolving needs and supplying the assembly plants. G-05 started off as an "exotic European fluid." VW changed to it early, followed by more companies, including Mercedes for both gas and diesel engines. Now it's becoming the everyday American factory fill for DaimlerChrysler and Ford, who serve it up as a "long life" coolant good for five years/100,000 miles.

-Car and Driver

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/columns/2002/july/200207_columns_bedard.xml?&page=1

"Zerex is launching G-05 under its own label. Expect to pay five to seven dollars at AutoZone and Checker's."

mdaffron

http://www.auto.com/industry/iwire14_20020614.htm

Somebody needs to send Mazda Hiroshima a FOCUS to play with!!!!

Meade

mdaffron

I zoomed up to and past a Focus sedan on the highway. He was going about 58 and I was going about 62 -- OK, so I wasn't exactly zooming.

Anyway -- as I passed him slowly, I took a good look at the car. And something I saw made me almost cry and laugh at the same time. The part of the wraparound front bumper, right in front of the front tires on either side, was flapping in the breeze about an inch either side of where it should've been. As I moved to where I could see the front of the car, I checked to see if it had been damaged in a fender-bender or something. No sign of damage -- the entire car appeared to be in new condition.

Good build quality, Ford!

Meade

mazdafun

...Camry Solaras suffer from the same problem. Insufficient support of the fascia. Probably saved all of fifty cents on parts (probably more on labor).

One more thing to be happy about our Pros!

mazdafun

Not all mfrs go through the trouble of supporting the free end of the bumper fascias or lining the insides of the wheel wells (I think our Pros tie these together for added support). Might save some money and minimize extent of minor bumper impact damage by not transfering as much energy.

chikoo

ur 72 yrs old?
Holy cow!

Im pleased to see ur still an active young man, at this age.

dsm6

I agree that for a potential buyer reading these posts to get a feel for the car, it is quite useful to qualify opinions with any relevant constraints. So here's mine - I'm a lunatic. ;-)

I too wonder why cars are tested without a proper break-in. I'm surprised, actually, that manufacturers don't break-in test mules before handing them out. So much focus is placed on engine performance by these guys, and engines typically run better after a good break-in. Maybe they do, but it seems I hear alot of comments from testers along the lines of "maybe the engine will run better after break-in", etc. As you point out, changes occur with suspensions as well.

maltb

I think the 600 mile break-in is not what the testers are talking about. Most engines don't loosen up and really run well until about 8-10,000 miles.

joe2617

I don't think you have much chance of getting msrp. VW will only give you the current wholesale value or maybe invoice at the most. Did you pay msrp when you bought the jetta? If not why would they buy it back for msrp?

tomciviletti

i suppose that no amount of power is enough if you are racing, but i find my '99es 5spd plenty powerful for spirited driving. Most of the time, i'm shifting at 3k for best fuel mileage. when i want to zoom, i shift between 4k and 6k. One in a hundred vehicles keeps up with me in zoom mode, so why would i need more power? If i could regularly cruise over 100mph, maybe i would crave more juice, but that's not possible. given the choice between 20 more horses and 5 more mpg, i'd choose the fuel economy. I could still zoom while destroying the environment and depleting the petrol reserves less.

mdaffron

If I'd wanted a true performance car, I would've looked at an Integra or something of that nature. What I (and I think a lot of others, who just won't admit it) was looking for was an easy-to-own car that had some life to it -- and we found it in our Proteges. Maybe the folks who are complaining about low power are, for the most part, driving automatics. In my fits of road rage most mornings, I frequently blow everything from Accords to Mercedes off the road, along with everything in between (had another winning takeoff against a new Civic and a Pontiac something-or-other at a traffic light this morning). I really don't have a need for more power, nor do I feel I could use it unless I had a track or a volunteer firefighter badge. There's nothing quite like dropping that clutch and leaving people in my dust! (Plus -- are you listening Larry -- those new Dunlops make the sudden takeoff even better by digging in and getting going in a jiffy!)

Like you said, all this fun and 30 mpg at the same time -- Man, it don't get no better than this! (Gratuitous plug for Old Milwaukee)

Meade

dsm6

Its all relative, and personal. The pro goes quickly enough through turns, but in a straight line, I personally like to feel more forward thrust - either that, or better fuel efficiency for the current power level. I mean, at 130 hp/135 ft-lbs of torque, 0-60 in the mid to high 8's, and around 30 miles to the gallon, we're talking fairly average engine performance on the whole - and quickly falling behind. I guess the new 2.3 will bring it back toward the rest of the pack. The car is good, but not perfect - IMO the engine is the weak spot.

BTW, there is no way in heck that I'll admit I was looking for an easy to own car that had some life to it. Who would admit that? ;-)

Oh, I have a 5-speed as well.

vocus

When I had my Protege DX (1999 1.6 automatic), power was really dead. When the AC was on, I had to plan moves carefully or floor the pedal almost through the bottom of the car.

In the 2001 (2.0 automatic) Protege ES, the power was a little bit more "there", but it still pretty much died with the AC on and/or a full load of passengers.

mdaffron

Come on man. The price range of the Protege doesn't exactly place it alongside Acuras, Lexuses (Lexi?) and BMWs. It's an economy sedan (or wagon/hatchback) with some verve and suspension enhancements gained from the fact that Mazda has some excitement in its soul. But the bottom line is, it's an economy car that competes with the likes of the Civic, Corolla and Sentra. And I guarantee you I can (and in fact have) beat any one of those cars from a traffic light in my 2000 ES 5-speed.

You want higher performance? Then don't shop for an economy car. BTW, I thought the new 2.3 was going into the base Mazda6. I have not heard of a 2.3 going into a Protege. I could be wrong, though. Anyone out there care to confirm?

Meade

dsm6

Did those civics, corollas and sentras have power sucking slush boxes? The real thing to do is look at an independent source for acceleration times. Want a car with about the same acceleration, about the same power, for about the same price, but better fuel efficiency? Focus, Corolla, Elantra, Sentra, etc. Want better acceleration, more power, and similar fuel efficiency for about the same price? Neon, Cavalier, Sentra SER, etc.

But Darren, The Neon, Cavalier, and Focus are unreliable, and the Corolla, Sentra, and Elantra are so boring, and none of them handle as well as the Pro. Gee, you mean there are aspects of the Pro that outweigh its average engine performance? That sounds familiar. ;-)

Actually, I figured it out. The reason I'm not so geeked about the Pro's engine is because I have the 2.0 instead of the 1.8!

mdaffron

I think what it all boils down to with me is, I hate seeing people whine, [non-permissible content removed] and moan about a car they recently purchased. The acceleration was the same the day you test-drove the car, assuming you actually test-drove it. I get really tired of folks coming in here and saying, "Man, I've had my Protege for a year and I really wish it (insert wish here)." Well, you bought the damned car, so it's your own damned fault for not having researched it more, driven it more, or searched your own feelings prior to deciding to own it for four of five years. You're complaining about an aspect of the car that is not a defect, not a fault of the car. It's a personal preference that has NOTHING to do with the car, because nothing magical has happened to your engine to make it anything other than what it was the day it rolled off the truck at your dealership. I can accept folks being upset when their car has a reliability problem, a recall, or just simply breaks down, but it really gets me how many people come in here and raise holy hell because the Protege isn't something it's not. Hey my friends, the engine specs are listed in the Protege's brochure available at any dealership. You ever heard the expression, "You made your bed, so now you gotta sleep in it?" You bought the car. If more power will make you happy, go trade it for a WRX or an Integra. It's not the Protege's fault. But for the money, I don't think you'll find a better combination of features and reliability. Just ask Paul!

(Sorry Paul.) ;-)

There, I'm getting off my soapbox now, and I'm going home for the weekend. Let the Meade-flaming commence; I'll be on pins and needles all weekend!

Meade

ashutoshsm

.. I missed nothing by not being regular here for a while. Same old same old - econobox with great handling, acceptable power, lots of fun.

I'll be back in a few weeks ;-)

jstandefer

The new 2.3L is going to the base engine in the Mazda 6 and will be the up-level engine in the Mazda 3. Of course, look for Mazdaspeed versions of both cars with forced induction, more than likely.

Oh, and...

Man, I've had my Protege for 3.5 years and I really wish it had a rotary engine! :-) But, I've been whining about that since day one! Now, why did I trade in my RX-7... oh yeah, I wanted something with a decent trunk, four doors, good fuel economy, good handling, great reliability, decent power, and fun to drive. And, the Protege fits all of those! (Though, I do wish it had less rattles...) Zoom Zoom!
-Jerry

alternator

is, I believe, the best I've ever seen from the lad. Well said Daffron!

mdaffron

Where the heck have you been? You never show up at Tuesday chat anymore either! You hate us! I'm so depressed!

Meade

(OK, this time I really am outta here. Computer's going off in 10 seconds ...)

mdaffron

You are a gentleman and a scholar. And I'm outta here.

Meadeball

mazdafun

Can't blame us for that. Besides, it gives the engineers something to do.

Actually, Mazda's engines were falling a bit behind, although they are decent. I think the new I-4s sound great on paper. Can't wait to try them out. I did read some rumor that the 2.3L version may be an option in the next Pro (3) generation. Since Mazda's making the I-4 in two smaller displacements (1.8 and 2.0, I think...better check the European or Japanese web sites for this info), one of these might be the new stock 4-banger. Probably means similar performance but smoother operation and improved fuel efficiency.

For reference, someone on the Mazda 6 figured out estimates (on the European circuit anyway) for the 6 with the 2.3L I-4 as about 23mpg (US) city and 39mpg highway. Likely that'll translate into a slightly higher city and lower highway rating when tested on the EPA cycles, which is pretty good for a vehicle around 3,000 pounds and sporty driving and handling characteristics.

newcar31

I really don't understand why people don't like the 2.0L. If you look at the dyno sheet and specs, you will see that it makes it's power down low instead of up high. Mazda could have easily tuned it the other way around, but rightly figured that Americans like torque down low. I know I do. I was a bit skeptical about the 2.0L myself because I saw them everyday in ho-hum 626s, Probes, and MX6s at my old job. After I drove the Protege 2.0L, I realized that the 2.0L works very well in the Protege. I like it.

dsm6

"Gee, you mean there are aspects of the Pro that outweigh its average engine performance?"

Sounds like buyer's remorse to me. Must not have done his research, because he obviously wants to get rid of the car. ;-)

Let's keep it real. Emotional arguments may sound good, but they aren't always too terribly relevant or based on fact.

dsm6

I find it to be adequate for the job it does. IMO about average amongst its competitors. The chassis, IMO, more than makes up by being quite a bit above average - as I said above.

BTW, my comment about the 2.0 vs the 1.8 should have had a wink after it - it was meant in jest for Jerry and Meade's sake.

protege_fan

Well, I just put a K&N filter in about a week ago, and I dunno if it's the whole placebo effect, but the engine seems to rev a lot easier at higher RPM's. OR maybe I'm just taking it up there more often to test the filter out. Either way, the 2.0L, IMHO, is fine in the upper RPM range. I have no complaints for lack of power or noise. I know what I bought AND I love it!!

alternator

autoexpress.co.uk has a very favorable review at the moment (and especially fine, enlargeable photos) at

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/front_index.php?cp=1

If you stay on their web site more than about 5 minutes they will boot you off, but you can return again and again apparently if you get caught short of time. Their article is titled "Mazda 6 Hatch", but seems to be about the 6 sedan (?).

number42

In case no one noticed, I'd had a problem a few weeks ago. AS I had described it, it sounded like the engine hit about 6000 rpm, except at around 2500. IT happened when going uphill, and on needing speed.

Anyway, I took it to my dealer on the 12th, and after testing it, it turned out that the bolts that hold the tailpipe to the engine were gone. (The official description on the service was "Loose Engine Exhaust Pipe" with a remedy "Replaced Missing Bolts Holding Front engine Pipes")

Is/Was this a bad thing? Could it have waited? Still great to have my Zoom Zoom though..

maltb

but if it was fixed in a short period of time, it shouldn't have hurt. If they didn't replace the gasket you may hear from it within the next month, but otherwise it should be good to go.

pat

You asked me a question I haven't had a chance to answer. You were asking why you can post all over the place, but when you click on a profile you are told you have to log in to view it.

The deal is that there are actually two separate places in which you need to be logged in to access all of the Town Hall's functionality. When you log in to the Town Hall's login page, you are automatically logged in to the Town Hall's Web Crossing server. Our data base is hosted by Web Crossing, so you have to be logged in *there* to post.

But there are some functions are controlled by the Town Hall "front end" totally apart from WebX. Creating, storing and viewing user profiles are front end issues; not WebX.

What is happening to you is that your "front end" login has expired, but your WebX login is still allowing you to post.

The fix? Well, you have to go back to the Town Hall welcome page and re-log in like it says. But as you have seen, you can keep posting as long as you want. If you stay active on the database server, I'm not sure that your login there *ever* times out. (But if you don't do anything for some period of time, you will be timed out of the WebX server also. Might be a half hour, might be longer, I've never been able to pinpoint it.)

You may not wish to do this, but if you enable auto login, this will not happen at all. That's because if your login has expired when you access a profile, you will be automatically logged back in.

This is probably way too much information, right? Let me know if you have any other questions. You can either email me or we can talk in a more appropriate discussion which you will find here.

pat

You asked me about getting unsubscribed for no good reason. Yes it happens. It is a very irritating bug. I think they are trying to fix it.

But meanwhile, a feature (!) has been added to the Message Center. Now it shows you a list of discussions to which you are subscribed that contain new messages - as always - but beneath that list are the titles of all your subscribed discussions which do *not* have new messages.

In my mind, that will make it easier to spot a random unsubscribe if/when it happens.

There's been some discussion of this over on News & Views in the "Town Hall Redesign" topic. You might want to check it out.

pat

Not sure if any of you still have questions about this?

If you open your Message Center and leave it open - minimized or whatever - AND under Message Center Settings (at the bottom of the MC page) you have "Beep when my subscriptions have new messages" checked, you should hear a horn honk when any new message is found in any of your subscribed topics.

I'm seeing in the Town Hall Redesign 2002: Tell Us Your Thoughts discussion that since the new look was rolled in, this feature has not been consistent. But I'm sure they'll get it worked out.

pat

Did I miss anything? Things have been terribly hectic around here in the last few days -- please feel free to let me know if I have not taken care of anything that needs attention. (As always, of course!)

Happy Father's Day!

Pat
Sedans Host

number42

How would i know if the gaskets were replaced as well. I've literally stated everything of any description on the service order. The only thing is: The service advisor stated that he had to get the specific parts (fortunately they had them). Excatly what could have happened had this not been done?

dinu01

I'm in the same boat as Ashu: haven't been over in a while and I see we're still discussing the same topics.

Tires question: I will have $ for 4 all season tires in 2 mths (say mid/late August). I wanted to ask you all what do you think is the better tire, considering:

1. thread life
2. snow/wet traction
3. some "sporty" dry traction

I have narrowed it down after much research to:

Yokohama Touring
Michelin X-One

I am leaning towards the X-One, even though it's expensive. I want these tires to last and be decent in snow. My aunt has these tires on her Maxima and they're pretty good.

Any experience with the Yokohamas? I don't think Avid/ Avit T4s are what I need: remember the snow we get here up north?

Thanx,
Dinu

PS: I STILL LOVE MY PRO!

alternator

I listed a Gates Rubber Co. website:

http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=981&location_id=540

that contains their "Timing Belt Replacement Guide".

In that guide, the 2001 Mazda 2.0L DOHC (Protege and 626) engine was indicated as being of the "Interfering" type.

Through further contact with Gates, I have been assured by them that their data was in error, and said engine is the "Non-Interfering" type. They will be correcting their guide accordingly.

Sorry to have put forth misinformation, even if I did so unknowningly.

windowphobe6

These replaced the OEMs on my previous 626, and they did a decent job with slippery stuff, not to mention being quieter than some of the Bridgestones I could name. I'll be getting them for my current ride as soon as I wear out the OEM tires, which are, um, Bridgestones. Loud ones.

ashutoshsm

Have them (or the equivalent, according to the website - the Michelin XH-4s)

Amazing tread wear, but not great grip in any conditions. Although an excellent compromise when you combine the well-above-satisfactory performance in all conditions - rain, snow and dry.

Overall verdict - satisfied!

I understand the Yokohomas are equally good, cheaper and quieter, though - highly rated on Tirerack.

fowler3

Meade said, "What I (and I think a lot of others, who just won't admit it) was looking for was an easy-to-own car that had some life to it -- and we found it in our Proteges."

Yep, that's what I had in mind, too. Coming down from a Honda Odyssey, even the smaller '98 version, made it even more difficult. That 111-inch wheelbase gave a superb ride,and the 150hp V-Tech engine, and 4-wheel discs, etc. spoiled me. Every other small car I drove said I was making a mistake, until I drove the Protegé. (The good one, not the first one with the wheels out of balance.)

I was looking for an affordable small car that offered the same seating comfort found in the Odyssey. Found it. I was looking for a small car that had decent low end performance for city driving, one that could scoot out of the way of bullheaded SUV drivers. Found it. I was also looking for a small car with a stylish interior similar to the Odyessy's, I found it in the beige Pro, same color as the Odyssey's. The LX 2.0L with AT is the best answer for many drivers who may want something more up-market, but can't afford one at the time. In other economy cars you feel you have to make excuses for buying them -- NOT the Pro -- you talk about its virtues and smile real wide.

You want more performance and high fuel economy at the same time, never happen! Can't be done because more power means less economy. You are like the guy who asked me to help him find a camera that would give him a wide angle view and a telephoto close-up at the same time in the same picture. He wanted a camera that would take a picture the way he "sees" a panorama. Impossible.

Fuel costs in the states isn't all that expensive, in Canada and Europe it is very important for the majority of drivers. I top my tank every two weeks and that's when I still have a quarter tank left. The gas is $1.269 a gallon. By the way, I have found Shell 87 makes my engine run better and more fuel efficient.

fowler3

fowler3

Where on the Net can I find a directory of sports car clubs in the states? For each state and city locations?

fowler3

fowler3

On Yahoo! Read 340 of 1002, that's enough.

Those interested in AutoX check this page for some interesting pics, including two Mini-Coopers in an AutoX.

http://www.auto-x.com/02event2pics/02event2.htm

And the hood on that Firebird!

fowler3

gladichecked

Had the alternator replaced on Thursday (at 21,000mi) and so far have had no reoccurance of the electrical problems. I drove the car 500+ miles the next day as I was moving from NC to TN. I do have a concern about how the car is idling (see post in Mazda Protege Problems).

My main reason for this post was to remind everyone (most anyway) why we got our Pros. The twisties going through the Smokey Mountains!

gandrigo

I'm sure this topic has been adequately covered in the past, however.... Does anyone one know if a 195/60/14 tire would fit on the standard 14" steel rims of a 99 protege. Looking for a little more bite through the corners, but don't see the need to pay big bucks for new rims. Dealer seems to be little help. thanks.

fowler3

We have a drought in the Piedmont part of NC and trying to conserve water. My cousin has a well and a pump she uses to wash her van, but the well water has minerals in it, you can't drink it because it smells and tastes so bad.

Would it damage the paint on my Pro if I wash my car with that water?

fowler3

protege_fan

If you're talking hard water, than your car should be fine being washed in this water. Just be sure that you don't let the water dry on the paint because you will likely get water spots/marks which can damage your clearcoat.

So if you wash with that water, be sure to a)constantly wet the vehicle until you are ready to dry and b) dry quickly when you are done washing.

Also, in terms of washing, wash in the shade or later in the day when there's less sun. The hot sun directly on your paint will cause the water to evaporate very quickly, making the water dry faster, thereby leaving ugly and harmful water marks.

mdaffron

We've had these "what's the biggest thing you've ever put in your Protege" polls before, but I thought I'd share the latest:

I had to take my lawn mower (CraftsMAN 5.5-hp gasoline mulchin' baby, AR AR AR) to Sears (damn right Sears) (OK, I'll stop the Tim Allen jokes now) for a tuneup last week. Folding the handle down, I was able to get the mower completely into the trunk WITHOUT folding the rear seats down, and WITH the trunk lid closed!

Protege sedan swallows entire lawn mower!

Meade

rbrooks3

Well, I met with the dealership last Friday and can you say "like a meteor falling towards Earth?" to describe resale value. More accurately, it's not resale value (since the Pro is only 5 months old) it's really an example of immediate depreciation. My 02 Pro ES that cost me 16,666, 5 months and 6,000 miles later gets 11,400 as a trade in. Eeek!

So, looks like I'll be continuing the physical therapy thing to see if I can keep that clutch knee form locking up on me. So far so good. I'll have to stay on top of it.

I did tell the dealer I did not expect them to be able to get me into a new car for anywhere near what I'm paying now so I was not surprised. They'll keep an eye out for a use done. I'm not in a big rush now since PT seems to be helping. Maybe by next summer, after having the Pro for 18 months or so, if the knee is still a problem, finding a used one with the automanual will be easier and more in line cost wise with my then even more used Pro.

I had expected the Pro to be about 13,000 on trade in value and that's still a drop under 4,000 in depreciation. Figured they get it at 13k and sell it at 14k. I would have to believe anyone coming in for an LX would look at an ES loaded at the same price with 6k on it. I was shocked at 11,400. Either the dealership wants a much larger profit on sale of used cars or I significantly underestimated the drop in value of my Pro.

I'm still shocked with a loss of almost 1/3 in value in 5 months. But, maybe that's normal. I've never had reason to find out before.

mdaffron

You can get a lot more that way.

Meade