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Comments
For starters, you can't buy a Protege ES and then add all of these performance parts for less than $22k. Plus, you won't get the factory warranty.
Rumors are already flying in other boards about Mazdaspeed Protege testing. According to these rumors, it will accelerate faster than the RSX, Celica GTS, and WRX. The RSX and GTS are pretty torque-deficient and can't match even the stock Protege's power curve. Throw in the turbo and LSD and the Mazdaspeed will easily outperform them. 170hp is pretty low when you are just looking at peak horsepower. However, if peak horsepower is the only thing you are looking at, you should have bought a very peaky Honda instead. As discussed before, the heavier WRX only gets 165 of its 227hp to the ground. AWD is wonderful, but it is very inefficient and is not a replacement for a well-tuned suspension.
We already know the MP3 is the best handling front-wheel drive vehicle on the market, even displacing the Integra Type-R from that spot. The MP3 was also included in Road & Track's 8 Best Handling cars on the market. In the slalom speed and apex speed tests, the MP3 took third place, easily besting the speeds of the BMW M3, Porsche 911, Porsche Boxster S, Mitsubishi Evo VII, and Ferrari 360 Modena. The Mazdaspeed will have an even more fine-tuned suspension with the addition of the LSD and turbo! The new Mazdaspeed Protege will be worthy of the Mazdaspeed name!
If Mazda sells them for $22k, I guarantee nearly all 1,500 copies will be sold before they even hit the ground. If Mazda sells them for $25k, the same thing will happen. This is not a car Joe Q. Public will be looking at, and this is not a car Joe Q. Public will spend $22k on. The people who will be buying this car already know the bargain that it is.
Would I buy it for $22k. Of course! Show me a cheaper car with more balance or better handling... You can't.
Hehehehe...
-Jerry
Meade
What's up?
Only reason I mentioned the S2000 was because for some reason it's the first car that popped into my head that I remembered that had an n/a 4-banger.
Whatever...I'm happy with the current 2.0L for my needs now.
Also, Dale, you would definitely have to be sure to shut the windows before going into the carwash with the TV in there, or it would cause serious problems.
Oh yeah Dale, did you ever try the Oxy-Clean stuff I told you about for that front floormat? Let me know.
And you're welcome again for the great time.
And no, everybody, it wasn't THAT kind of a 'great time.'
Happy Birthday!!!!
--Dale
It will have sharp reflexes, no doubt about it. I wouldn't buy this MazdaSpeed turbo kit when it comes out, even with its factory warranty. I might buy the suspension parts, though.
BTW, yes the RSX-S makes more power up high, but with its three lobe vvt and variable cam-phasing, that doesn't mean it makes no power down low.
I got a call from the car dealer today. They are having a heck of a time finding the 3rd rattle in the back of the car. The shop foreman said it's annoying him just testing the car for the rattle, he doesn't know how I stood it. Now I think they are starting to learn how I feel.
We know.
Meade
It's funny how even Protege enthusiasts will bash to MP3 and Mazdaspeed because it's "just an economy car." What do you think the WRX is? Remember its full name: Impreza WRX. The Impreza is just a, GASP!, economy car. And the WRX is a $24k economy car... $25k if you add stuff like a the upgraded sound system, selective unlocking remote entry, and an armrest! I don't see how everyone can bash the $3k cheaper Mazdaspeed and praise the WRX.
And which car will win on a racetrack. I think that's easy. The Mazdaspeed's better handling, less weight, lower gearing, better tires (215/45ZR17), and overall better tuning will allow it to prevail. The Impreza 2.5 RS couldn't even hold a candle to the MP3 on the racetrack in Car and Driver's Budget Banditos comparison.
And before everyone jumps in to tell me it doesn't matter which car will win on a racetrack... isn't that what these cars were designed for? Mazda has never been out for sheer straight-line performance, and its enthusiasts are not out for that either.
BTW, if Mazda charged $32k for any of their 4-cyl cars, I'm sure they could match Honda's 120hp/L rating. That technology is expensive. Otherwise, I'm sure Honda would have that engine in the Civic Si. But why waste the money? The new RX-8 (which will be cheaper than the S2000) produces 192hp/L.
Is your conscience bothering you?
Meade
Also, AWD appeals to me. It may cause less hp to reach the ground, but for Canadian winters AWD with 4 snow tires would rock.
If you look at the WRX's acceleration curve, it is very impressive. 0-60 mph in 5.7 seconds (sorry...I've said this before).
I'm not trying to get in a p*ssing match here...I love the Protege. But the MS3 is getting into muddy waters...The price for performance seems a bit too high, IMHO.
That's not fair. Rotaries are a completely different ball game. You cannot accurately compare hp/L between piston engines and rotaries.
"However, even if the WRX is quicker, it won't be by much."
I don't think so. I think the WRX will be MUCH quicker than the MS3. I predict 0-60 times in the 7 second range for the MS3. I'd bet the WRX will be almost 2 seconds quicker. We shall see.
The new 2.0L iVTEC engine is impressive, no doubt. However, I really can't stand Toyota's 1.8L VVTi-L in the GTS. I kept thinking I was in 3rd gear from a stop. Sure, if you rev it up and really slip the clutch, you can get a decent launch. But, for normal everyday driving, it's a pain. Still, both are fairly peaky engines (although the iVTEC is a vast improvement) which can make apexing a curve interesting, particularly with the GTS's on-off power delivery.
But, alas... Hey malt! According to this board, it would be stupid for Mazda to introduce the Mazdaspeed Protege unless they sell it for under $10k. Tell them to just trash the vehicles. I hear people whine all day long they wish Mazda would come out with a car to compete with the likes of the WRX. However, when Mazda does come out with the car, the same people will be the first to down it. I can think of a name to describe that...
As for the RX-8... I was just saying Mazda wouldn't waste their time trying to do what Honda has done with a 4-cyl when they've had a superior engine for a decade.
Why don't they try to dominate the market that they have the Protege in now? Make the Protege so damn appealing that nobody will want a Toyota or Honda?? That seems smarter to me than shoving a turbo in the Pro and hoping it can compete with the WRX.
You KNOW it will be compared to the WRX, if for nothing more than being in the same price range.
Oh yeah, and happy birthday as well.
"I hear people whine all day long they wish Mazda would come out with a car to compete with the likes of the WRX. However, when Mazda does come out with the car, the same people will be the first to down it."
First of all, Mazda best come to the party packing more than 170 hp if it wishes to compete with the WRX. Second of all, how do you know that the MS3 will be comparable to the WRX at all? I think too much of this conversation is based on speculation.
Agreed. Nobody knows for sure how the MS3 will operate. Let's just wait and see.
Speaking of speculation, I suggest a pool. 0-60 time for the MS3. I tried this a few months ago, but no one was interested. Any takers? Just for grins. I say low 7's. I'll guess 7.2 seconds. If there are any takers, we can decide on how we will pick the final time. I suggest an average of a few major magazines - CandD, MT,AW.
For the record: the Ford Focus SVT makes 170 hp at 7,000 rpms, 145 lb-ft of torque at 5500 rpms from a NA 2.0L 4, weighs about 2600 pounds and is said to have good low end torque, thus a relatively flat power curve. The MS3 makes 170 hp at 5500 rpms, 155 lb-ft of torque at 4500 rpms from a turbo 2.0L 4, and weighs in at about 2850 lbs. So they are somewhat comparable. The Focus SVT makes the 0-60 sprint in about 7.5 seconds.
The MS3 comes with the same tranny and final drive ratio that we all know and love on our 5-speed Pros.
Although the great ratio in 5th in the ES/P5 gearbox is not nearly as effective as making it a 6-speed, with more room to play in the lower gears (SE-R Spec-V, Focus SVT)!
And no, I wouldn't plunk down 22K for it, but WOULD buy it for 20 or under (but the premiums charged by dealers for a special edition will make that PRETYY UNLIKELY!)
So 2003 Mazda 6 Sport/Hatch with 2.3l 4-cylinder seems like the way to go, to me - 5 speed!
As far as the official time, I say we average some of the major magazine times - reputable mags that we know will test this car. I suggest Car and Driver and Auto Week, and maybe Motor Trend. I'm not 100% certain Auto Week will give us a 0-60 time, and I'm not 100% sure Motor Trend is reputable, so make any suggestions you care to make - just as long as we agree ahead of time so nobody monkey's with the numbers.
Oh, and it'll be just for fun so no wagering, please. ;-)
Not sure what benefits that would entail....maybe making everyone call you Master or prefacing all comments with All Hail King/Queen So-and-so.