Mazda Protegé

boggse

Personally, I would go with the Protege, but then I already did, so that isn't too surprising.

Here is my take:

Civic pros: resale value and fuel economy
Civic cons: boring and questionable build quality of late

Golf pros: comfy ride and nice looking interior
Golf cons: abhorrent reliability

Protege pros: top notch reliability and fun to drive
Protege cons: resale value

I haven't driven a Mazda6, but I understand they are quite nice. You should try one out. I would avoid the Golf, but the Civic is a fine choice if you decide you don't like either of the Mazdas.

steven39

hi just a follow up to my preveus post. i would like to know how also the elantra gt
would stack up against the protege es. boy i have been looking at so many cars as of late.
my budget is around 20,000.00 i just want something that is fun to drive,reliable, and descent fuel economy,with a good standard warranty.and also good power thats why i think i might rule out the honda civic ex
its pretty lethargic to say the least.

blueguydotcom

Uh, 20k will get you an Elantra and 7k to spare right now. The Elantra has a peppy engine with a manual. A friend bought a loaded one a few months back for 13k. In September the same car will probablty go for 12k. Or maybe lower?

Pro ES is fun and a good handler though lacking in any measure of speed or power. The LX likewise. I've seen a few people who have squeaked out Mazda6's with the V6 for under 20k.

Reliable, fun and somewhat powerful? Tall order. The Focus packs a 140+ HP engine even in base models. It's got some zoom. Too bad it's a ford. Wait a few months for the Mazda3 and you might get all that stuff.

Or save for a few more months and go for a Mazda6 or a TSX.

tomciviletti

Actually, my first vehicle was two long logs with a shorter one lashed between them for a seat. The far ends hung on the sides of a mastadon. The ride was rough, but I didn't need to replace tires.

mdaffron

Keep in mind the guy who said that currently owns a BMW and his dream car is a Porsche. Methinks he's in the wrong discussion.

I own a 2000 Protege ES 5-speed and it's fast and fun. Sure, it ain't no BMW, but then again it cost me about half as much. If you're comparing cars WITHIN THEIR PRICE RANGE, you'll find the Protege to be extremely competent.

That said, I test-drove an automatic and a 5-speed before I made my purchase -- so I can say without hesitation (pun intended) that if you want the best zoom for the buck, go with the 5-speed. There's a definite difference in the way the car performs.

As Car & Driver magazine said in their comparison of 13 economy cars in 2000 -- the one where the Protege came out No. 1 -- "BMW verve for half the price -- what's not to like?"

Meade

mazdafun

Stay clear of the VW. There are too many with reliability issues. They feel solidly built (when new) and come nicely trimmed, but I don't want the hassle of nagging little service stops.

The only thing I'd watch out for on the Elantra GT is the fake leather on the door trim is very easily nicked and cut. It's not even fabric-reinforced. It's just plain vinyl, and thin at that. Otherwise, it's a decent enough car and has the added utility of the hatch.

My personal favorite of compact 4/5 doors is the P5. As nice or better than the ES, plus the hatch. The only thing is rear visibility is not as good and the rear window gets dirtier faster (my wife has one...I just have a Protege LX, which I still thoroughly enjoy).

Another you might consider is a Corolla S. If tiny rear accomodations don't bother you, you can look at the Sentra as well. The Mistubishi Lancer is decent too (Ralliart versions coming out soon), though I don't care much for it's outside styling.

boggse

Skip the ES, and go get a Mazdaspeed Protege. 170HP, sweet suspension, and now available in sane colors like silver, black and gray. You can always replace the silly wing with a standard ES wing later on. It should be about as reliable as a standard Protege, and has the same 4/50 warranty. The only downside is it takes premium fuel. Oh, and it has a killer stereo.

If you don't need cargo room, there is always the Miata.

As for the Focus, I would avoid it due to reliability concerns, but I guess it has a new warranty now. To get 145HP, you will need to get the 2.3L engine, not the base 2.0L. Of course, you could get the SVT Focus for about $20k, so that might be a consideration, especially now that is comes in a 4 door hatch. The SVT has far superior seats to the standard Foci.

It might be worth looking at the Corolla S, but only if you have an odd body type, or are very short. If you are lanky at all, I suspect you will find it uncomfortable.

ashutoshsm

You could comfortable afford a Mazda 6i (the 4-cylinder version) which has a super-peppy 160HP engine.

I'd suggest the 5-speed for the additional pep (I own one!). Well optioned, and with the current rebates, you could get one for well under 20K

mdaffron

And buy a Mazda3, which is going to replace the Protege for 2004!

Meade

boggse

Meade's got the Mazda3 bug. Especially now that Zoomster has been wounded.

blueguydotcom

As for the Focus, I would avoid it due to reliability concerns, but I guess it has a new warranty now. To get 145HP, you will need to get the 2.3L engine, not the base 2.0L.

In California, the 2.3 is the base engine.

At 20k he can afford a Mazda6 S - yes an S with the V6. Do Mazda guys approve of that suggestion? 6S is a pretty sweet car for 19-20k. Nice looking, good handling, peppy (though a tad muted) and backed by Mazda's nice warranty.

If he's gone without a new car for years, just sock away more money and wait for the Mazda3. That car looks super impressive for the price point. Yeah, mdaffron, I think the Mazda3 is a nice choice. It's one more reason not to buy a Pro - last year of the pro and all.

And mdaffron, I may own a BMW but I'm currently in the market for a decent commuter car. I've got an 80-85 mile roundtrip to work, so I'm not keen on loading all those miles on my baby. Thus, I have been looking at smaller cars - used camcords, altimas, new pros, foci, corolla, civics, etc. Of the new ones, I appreciated the 2.3L in the 9k focus the most. In the end though I'll probably end up with a used 99 or newer Miata - my family has owned several miatas and I love how go-cart-like that car is.

And power and speed are rated by me from the top down - top being something beastly that'll do 0-60 in the sub-4 second range.

mdaffron

Oh, I've HAD the 3 bug. I've all but decided that my next car will be a late-2005 or 2006 Mazda3 wagon, depending on what kind of rebates are offered for end-of-year 2005s. That and I'll be looking to see what Mazdaspeed has to offer on a schweetened-up Mazda3 at that time too ...

I must say, though, that the small-pickup bug still stirs my soul, and now that I'm hearing about a complete restyling of the Nissan Frontier for 2005 with a larger V6, I'll be looking at that as well. Always liked the crew cab, and in fact had just driven one and started the paperwork back in May 2000 when I got sticker shock over the $400-plus-per-month payment and scurried off to Whitten Mazda, coming home in a new Protege ES for $284 per month instead ...

But we still have plans, especially now that Sean's getting a little older, to get back into the pop-up camper craze that we were enjoying until May 2000. Had to sell our '91 Starcraft Starflyer when the pickup got traded for the Protege. And since then I have discovered that my Eureka Equinox6, while a state-of-the-art tent with plenty of room, still means sleeping on the ground ... something that at age 38, and having experienced a few years of sleeping on a mattress with a roof over my head, has gotten hard to enjoy.

Decisions, decisions ...

One other point ... I was surprised to see a hefty rebate on the Mazda6 right now!

Meade

steven39

hello all, i am getting closer to purchasing a 2003 mazda protege es fully loaded including auto, 4 wheel anti-lock disk brakes
and the 6 disk cd-moonroof package. i have compared with honda civic, corolla,elantra gt
and the protege has the best features to price ratio in my opinion. plus i also like the loaner vehicle for warranty repairs. can you believe i looked at a 2003 corolla brand new with only auto, ac. pw, pd. for almost 20,000.00 no abs brakes, no moonroof, no 4 wheel disks, no 6 disk cd stereo system, what a rippoff. the protege es with those option packages equal a great deal compared to civic, corolla, and elantra gt. my question is this, since the 2003 is the last year for the standard protege, will parts still be readily available should i ever need repairs.
i also test drove a vibe and thought i was driveing a city bus, very sloppy handling, on the other hand, the protege es handles very well, even better than civic, and corolla.
by the way the corolla does get blown around on the highway very easily due to its high stance off the ground,which can become very annoying espesialy when a semi is passing you you better hold on tight to the steering wheel, where as the protege stays firmly planted at all times. thanx steve

boggse

"In California, the 2.3 is the base engine."

Are you in California?

I think the 6 is an excellent option based on what I have read. I haven't had the chance to try one myself.

boggse

I wouldn't worry about parts availability. Many of the parts in the Protege are used across the majority of the Mazda product line. There is plenty of financial incentive for parts suppliers to continue to make Protege parts.

mazdafun

I've noticed air filters are also more readily available than they used to be. I'm still in the habit of buying 2-3 at a time since they were somewhat difficult to find for my '89 323.

You can also use the 626 V6 oil filter instead of the dinky one specified for the Protege/P5 and 4cyl 626. There's still enough room you can work it on and off, even though it's about an inch or so taller.

It'll last longer than the short filter, which is important for me since I use synthetic oil in mine, and I know it easily outlasts the filter. I tried changing just the filter once. That was a mess. Don't try it.

boggse

Mazda has apparently standardized on a new oil filter design for all 1.6-2.0L I4 and 2.5L V6 engines. It is smaller than the old 626 V6 filter which is no longer available at my dealer. The gasket has a slightly smaller diameter as well. The new filters are made in Germany, not the US as the previous Tennex filter was.

As a result, I have switched to the Purolator PureOne filter in this size which apparently has he original gasket diameter. The Purolator part number is PL14612.

vocus

Sorry to hear about your accident and glad to hear you are ok. Figures you get hit right after just paying the car off not long ago.

steven39

hi folks,i think an interesting point here
regarding the protege and some other cars
that i have been looking at including the
civic,corolla, jetta, and elantra is that
the mazda protege is 100% made in japan which
in my opinion says alot regarding reliability.all the others are made here.

dinu01

Isn't the Elantra like all Hyundais made in Korea? Not that I'd brag about it...

Dinu

gee35coupe

They say U.S. Built Civics are slightly better initially than the Japanese ones. Early 2001 model year cars being the exception the Civics have stellar reliability records for the segment.

steven39

hey folks, which is the better deal here?
both cars sticker close to 19,000.00 but the protege with the all wheel diskbrakes,and the
6disk cd stereo-moonroof package with compass and temp display and auto dimming rear view
mirror, might be hard to pass up. also mazda
warranty is better with 4-50,000 including loaner cars for warranty repairs. is the civics better milaege 30-38 compared with the protege 25-30 enough to make me go with the civic? its not that great a difference in fuel economy. thanx

anonymousposts

Is safety important to you? The Civic has a much higher crash test rating than the Protege. Also, with a new Protege (Mazda3) on the horizon the Protege's resale value will take a hit. Important if you are only going to keep the car a couple of years.

carguy58

Don't forget you should get some kind of discount on the Protege. Mazda always has discounts on their cars. The Protege has a better interior than the current Civic. The Civic does get the better fuel mileadage though of the 2 cars. The discount that Mazda gives on the Protege and the better fuel economy of the Civic are 2 factors that that you must weigh on your decision making on which car to get. With the discounts Mazda gives Honda doesn't give any discounts besides the 1.9% APR financing (for 60 months I think it is) I think Honda is giving on Civic's currently. The Civic will probably have better resale value than the Protege does in the long run because of the discounts that will lower the Protege's resale value.

I'm not going to push anybody towards one car or the other. I'm going to explain both the good and the bad about both cars. I don't want to give anybody a biased decision.

bluong1

where do you see 2001-2003 Protegé crash test?

bluong1

In the hachback board there is a discussion: Mazda Protege5 vs. Honda Civic. Worth to take a look.

gee35coupe

http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/99005.htm
compared to
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/00031.htm

How much is that worth?

bluong1

the crashtest is on 1999-2000 Protegé model. It's just wrongly extrapolated to 2001-2003.

gee35coupe

That would have significantly affected/improved the score. It really needs a lot to compare favorably to the Civic.

I guess we would need to see a link that shows those tests erroneous. You know...Since they ought to have the facts straight. They must have looked at the changes, if any, and found them negligible.

pat

Yes, steven, the discussion mentioned to you by bluoug1 is a great resource for you to check out and read up.

What happened to the Accord that just the other day you said you traded your problematic Jetta in for?

bluong1

http://www.edmunds.com/used/2001/mazda/protege/100001454/roadtest- article.html?articleId=44875&tid=edmunds.e.firstdrive.content- ...Mazda*

gee35coupe

"The Protege has retained what Mazda calls its "Triple-H" structure, featuring reinforcement in the roof, the B-pillars and lower points on the car. This strengthens the passenger compartment, protecting occupants from side impacts or rollovers."

Maybe that's why they didn't retest it. The main structure of the car is the same.

Here are the Nhtsa tests...
http://nhtsa.com/NCAP/SList2.cfm

bluong1

true, the cage structure is the most important, but other things around should play a role in the crash too (how the pedals retract, how the suspension and engine break out during the impact, etc...). Many things have changed in the 2001 Protegé, worthy so that Edmunds bothers to make a new road test.

PS: The new Mazda3 still retains the triple-H technology for the structure, and Mazda3 has an excellent score according to an internal test (better than the 1999 Protegé).

gee35coupe

It goes nowhere. Fact remains the available data shows the Protege behind the current Civic in crash test scores. Those that do the testing for a living didn't find those changes to the safety aspects of the car significant enough to retest the car. I'm sure they have a criteria they abide by for such instances.

steven39

hi, just a follow up to my other post the cost to insure either the civic ex or the protge es is about the same despite the civics better crash test rateing. 6 month policy for the protege with 500 det is 955
and the civic was 979 with the same deductible.not that big a difference to influence me towards either car.

pat

Let's continue this conversation in our Honda Civic vs. Mazda Protegé discussion. I just reopened it and it needs to be updated with these current thoughts, questions and observations.

Steven: What happened to your brand new Accord??

bluong1

Fact remains the available data shows the Protege behind the current Civic in crash test scores.

Yes, I'm agree! But another fact is this test compares an old version of the car model that is no longer on sale. Fact is a lot of ill-informed consumers don't know this extrapolation. Fact is extrapolating is a bad science that can often lead to mistakes and errors.

mazdafun

Use CR data. JDP can construct polls any way the mfrs want. After all, doesn't Chrysler have the best "initial quality" or "highest initial consumer satisfaction" title (or did at one time)? Like I said, a joke.

And the post-00 Proteges have significantly thicker sheetmetal in front and rear substructures, in addition to other changes (low-friction steering mechanism, larger engine, bigger wheels, more standard equipment etc.). I notice the trunk floor sheetmetal parts are also different than those in my '99. The bumpers were also made a bit stronger, and cheaper to repair as well. That's why they feel a lot more substantial than 99-00 Proteges, which already feel pretty good (I have an early '99 and not a single rattle after 45k miles, which includes a lot of miles to/from/through Detroit, MI).

steven39

hello, i looked at both the protege es and the vw golf gls with the 8 speaker monsoon
stereo at my local vw-mazda dealership. i did not have a chance to listen to the 6-disk stereo in the prot es,however, i did get to listen to the monsoon system in the golf which was one of the best sounding units i have heard. with the golf being on the small side you really get a very good surround sound out of the 8 speakers. its one of the reasons iam considering a golf. how is the stereo in the protege with the 6 disk cd sound? thanx steve

boggse

Average is how I would describe it. Fortunately, you get a car whose fun-to-drive, reliability, and price VW cannot match with the Golf. My advice: save yourself the extra bucks the Golf would cost you and invest in a nice aftermarket stereo/speakers.

vocus

Comparing stock to stock, I can tell you from experience that the Protege stereo cannot hold a candle to the Monsoon radio. But like Boggs said above, you can upgrade the Protege's stereo, but not the Golf's crappy projected reliability and customer service...

SAR21102

Hi everyone.

Are there any differences between the LX and the ES in the suspension systems? That is, different shocks or springs or stabilizer bars?
Or is the only main MECHANICAL difference between the trimlines the rear drum vs. rear disc brakes?

Thanks very much in advance for your info.

boggse

AFAIK, the actual suspensions are the same, but the ES should have less unsprung weight with the 16" alloys and lower profile tires, so handling will be superior on the ES. However, the ride will be stiffer.

mdaffron

I saw a report on the news last night about the costs of repairing newer cars after seemingly insignificant bumper collisions. They were talking about "family sedans," and interestingly, in their comparison, the top damage amount was sustained by an Acura something-or-other, with something like $1400 in damage after a 5-mph pole collision. The least-expensive bash?

The new Mazda6.

Maybe some of what they did to the 6 will carry forth to the 3.

That said, my 2000 ES did sustain a rear impact of about 10 mph (maybe a wee bit more) the other day, and all I've got are scratches and some traded paint from the other vehicle, plus a small dent/hole in my bumper cover from their front license plate screw. My wife backed into a telephone pole a few months ago in her Protege5, doing at least 5 mph (I witnessed it) and to our amazement the car took the hit and there's no evidence the hit ever took place.

I'm very, very impressed by the rear bumpers on the current generation Proteges and P5s.

Meade

gee35coupe

http://www.theautochannel.com/F/news/2003/09/08/168193.html
In a room where you can get into a dispute over the slight nuances between disc vs. drum brakes, a .01 g difference in skidpad, or a .03 sec difference in 0-60 you would go so far as to say an Acura "whatever" when there wasn't even an Acura tested.

That's funny.

mdaffron

Hey, I was accurate in asserting that it was one of those cars available nowhere in the world but America, where people are so hoodwinked to think a jacked-up, spit-polished, trinket-loaded Accord, Maxima or Camry is worth an extra 10 grand because it has a glitzy name.

Blah. All I cared about was the 6. ZOOM ZOOM!!!

Meadeball

ashutoshsm

Takes the bait ... every time

Yeah - that said .. highly impressive bumper test results from newer Mazdas. After the mid/late 90s Protege/626 bumper repair costs' fiascoes

In 4-7 years, those pseudo-lux Ho/To/Ni marques will catch up

fowler3

Comparing the Protegé LX (same engine as the ES) mpg rating and actual mpg onroad to a Civic, I can give you some figures, although my driving style is different from yours.

I owned a 1994 Civic which got 37mpg highway with A/C on and 41mpg with the A/C off. My 2001 Protegé LX with auto tranny got 36mpg highway on a trip with A/C on. (28mpg city average) The Civic was 5-speed MT. Expect the Civic to be closer to the Pro if it has an A/T.

I haven't read the crash test reports nor the J.D.Powers ratings, but when I did test drives of the 2000 Pro and the 2001 Pro I *instantly* noticed the much better, solid feel of the '01's chassy. It felt like a much larger car yet still had the nimble handling. The 2000 Pro felt sort of flimsy in comparison. I also tested a 2001 Civic and it, too, felt light and less solidly built.

fowler3

blueguydotcom

Hey, I was accurate in asserting that it was one of those cars available nowhere in the world but America, where people are so hoodwinked to think a jacked-up, spit-polished, trinket-loaded Accord, Maxima or Camry is worth an extra 10 grand because it has a glitzy name.

An Infiniti G35 is built on a totally different platform than the Maxima. One is the FM (G35, FX35/45 and Z) and the other is the FFL (Max, Altima and Murano). Additionally, the G is available contented differently in Japan as a Skyline. Skyline if you're not aware is sort of an esteemed nameplate out there on "america's largest aircraft carrier." In europe they get it too but with 2.5 and 3.0 engines.

The advantage of the Infiniti brand would be the 4 yr/60k warranty and better service (free loaners). And it's not 10k more than any comparable American Nissan as Nissan doesn't make a RWD sports sedan. Even compared to a Maxima, the prices aren't that different. You're paying 32k (35k msrp) for a decked out G35 that will spank the living daylights out of a loaded 29k (32k msrp) front wheel drive Maxima.

mdaffron

But big, fat, morbidly obese America is the only place you'll find the Super-Size combo meal with the 96-ounce Coke and the bushel basket of fries, and the only place you'll find the super-deluxe, cushy jumbo Aculexfiniti with 17-speed, microtronic pavement-material-sensing transmission, calf and upper bicep warmers, Odor Eaters (TM) floor mats, crotch-odor-eliminating microtronic air filtration system and 28-speaker Theatre Hall Acoustic Perfection (TM) sound system with 1.86 megawatts of crystal-clear sound at 0.00003 percent THD.

Hee hee, you can't win me over here ... my Dad is a Buick owner who can't get beyond all the creature comforts and detached-from-the-road ride to realize ...

IT'S

A

CAR

The Protege is the essence of what a car is supposed to be -- it excels at its function of taking you from point A to point B, and makes getting there fun too! I don't need no stinkin' THX-certified "road theatre" sound, or Stay Puft (TM) suspension to isolate me from the road -- I'm there to drive, dammit!

Hee hee! Who's up for a beer at 8 a.m.?

Meadeball