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Comments
Here is my take:
Civic pros: resale value and fuel economy
Civic cons: boring and questionable build quality of late
Golf pros: comfy ride and nice looking interior
Golf cons: abhorrent reliability
Protege pros: top notch reliability and fun to drive
Protege cons: resale value
I haven't driven a Mazda6, but I understand they are quite nice. You should try one out. I would avoid the Golf, but the Civic is a fine choice if you decide you don't like either of the Mazdas.
would stack up against the protege es. boy i have been looking at so many cars as of late.
my budget is around 20,000.00 i just want something that is fun to drive,reliable, and descent fuel economy,with a good standard warranty.and also good power thats why i think i might rule out the honda civic ex
its pretty lethargic to say the least.
Pro ES is fun and a good handler though lacking in any measure of speed or power. The LX likewise. I've seen a few people who have squeaked out Mazda6's with the V6 for under 20k.
Reliable, fun and somewhat powerful? Tall order. The Focus packs a 140+ HP engine even in base models. It's got some zoom. Too bad it's a ford. Wait a few months for the Mazda3 and you might get all that stuff.
Or save for a few more months and go for a Mazda6 or a TSX.
I own a 2000 Protege ES 5-speed and it's fast and fun. Sure, it ain't no BMW, but then again it cost me about half as much. If you're comparing cars WITHIN THEIR PRICE RANGE, you'll find the Protege to be extremely competent.
That said, I test-drove an automatic and a 5-speed before I made my purchase -- so I can say without hesitation (pun intended) that if you want the best zoom for the buck, go with the 5-speed. There's a definite difference in the way the car performs.
As Car & Driver magazine said in their comparison of 13 economy cars in 2000 -- the one where the Protege came out No. 1 -- "BMW verve for half the price -- what's not to like?"
Meade
The only thing I'd watch out for on the Elantra GT is the fake leather on the door trim is very easily nicked and cut. It's not even fabric-reinforced. It's just plain vinyl, and thin at that. Otherwise, it's a decent enough car and has the added utility of the hatch.
My personal favorite of compact 4/5 doors is the P5. As nice or better than the ES, plus the hatch. The only thing is rear visibility is not as good and the rear window gets dirtier faster (my wife has one...I just have a Protege LX, which I still thoroughly enjoy).
Another you might consider is a Corolla S. If tiny rear accomodations don't bother you, you can look at the Sentra as well. The Mistubishi Lancer is decent too (Ralliart versions coming out soon), though I don't care much for it's outside styling.
If you don't need cargo room, there is always the Miata.
As for the Focus, I would avoid it due to reliability concerns, but I guess it has a new warranty now. To get 145HP, you will need to get the 2.3L engine, not the base 2.0L. Of course, you could get the SVT Focus for about $20k, so that might be a consideration, especially now that is comes in a 4 door hatch. The SVT has far superior seats to the standard Foci.
It might be worth looking at the Corolla S, but only if you have an odd body type, or are very short. If you are lanky at all, I suspect you will find it uncomfortable.
I'd suggest the 5-speed for the additional pep (I own one!). Well optioned, and with the current rebates, you could get one for well under 20K
Meade
In California, the 2.3 is the base engine.
At 20k he can afford a Mazda6 S - yes an S with the V6. Do Mazda guys approve of that suggestion? 6S is a pretty sweet car for 19-20k. Nice looking, good handling, peppy (though a tad muted) and backed by Mazda's nice warranty.
If he's gone without a new car for years, just sock away more money and wait for the Mazda3. That car looks super impressive for the price point. Yeah, mdaffron, I think the Mazda3 is a nice choice. It's one more reason not to buy a Pro - last year of the pro and all.
And mdaffron, I may own a BMW but I'm currently in the market for a decent commuter car. I've got an 80-85 mile roundtrip to work, so I'm not keen on loading all those miles on my baby. Thus, I have been looking at smaller cars - used camcords, altimas, new pros, foci, corolla, civics, etc. Of the new ones, I appreciated the 2.3L in the 9k focus the most. In the end though I'll probably end up with a used 99 or newer Miata - my family has owned several miatas and I love how go-cart-like that car is.
And power and speed are rated by me from the top down - top being something beastly that'll do 0-60 in the sub-4 second range.
I must say, though, that the small-pickup bug still stirs my soul, and now that I'm hearing about a complete restyling of the Nissan Frontier for 2005 with a larger V6, I'll be looking at that as well. Always liked the crew cab, and in fact had just driven one and started the paperwork back in May 2000 when I got sticker shock over the $400-plus-per-month payment and scurried off to Whitten Mazda, coming home in a new Protege ES for $284 per month instead ...
But we still have plans, especially now that Sean's getting a little older, to get back into the pop-up camper craze that we were enjoying until May 2000. Had to sell our '91 Starcraft Starflyer when the pickup got traded for the Protege. And since then I have discovered that my Eureka Equinox6, while a state-of-the-art tent with plenty of room, still means sleeping on the ground ... something that at age 38, and having experienced a few years of sleeping on a mattress with a roof over my head, has gotten hard to enjoy.
Decisions, decisions ...
One other point ... I was surprised to see a hefty rebate on the Mazda6 right now!
Meade
and the 6 disk cd-moonroof package. i have compared with honda civic, corolla,elantra gt
and the protege has the best features to price ratio in my opinion. plus i also like the loaner vehicle for warranty repairs. can you believe i looked at a 2003 corolla brand new with only auto, ac. pw, pd. for almost 20,000.00 no abs brakes, no moonroof, no 4 wheel disks, no 6 disk cd stereo system, what a rippoff. the protege es with those option packages equal a great deal compared to civic, corolla, and elantra gt. my question is this, since the 2003 is the last year for the standard protege, will parts still be readily available should i ever need repairs.
i also test drove a vibe and thought i was driveing a city bus, very sloppy handling, on the other hand, the protege es handles very well, even better than civic, and corolla.
by the way the corolla does get blown around on the highway very easily due to its high stance off the ground,which can become very annoying espesialy when a semi is passing you you better hold on tight to the steering wheel, where as the protege stays firmly planted at all times. thanx steve
Are you in California?
I think the 6 is an excellent option based on what I have read. I haven't had the chance to try one myself.
You can also use the 626 V6 oil filter instead of the dinky one specified for the Protege/P5 and 4cyl 626. There's still enough room you can work it on and off, even though it's about an inch or so taller.
It'll last longer than the short filter, which is important for me since I use synthetic oil in mine, and I know it easily outlasts the filter. I tried changing just the filter once. That was a mess. Don't try it.
As a result, I have switched to the Purolator PureOne filter in this size which apparently has he original gasket diameter. The Purolator part number is PL14612.
regarding the protege and some other cars
that i have been looking at including the
civic,corolla, jetta, and elantra is that
the mazda protege is 100% made in japan which
in my opinion says alot regarding reliability.all the others are made here.
Dinu
both cars sticker close to 19,000.00 but the protege with the all wheel diskbrakes,and the
6disk cd stereo-moonroof package with compass and temp display and auto dimming rear view
mirror, might be hard to pass up. also mazda
warranty is better with 4-50,000 including loaner cars for warranty repairs. is the civics better milaege 30-38 compared with the protege 25-30 enough to make me go with the civic? its not that great a difference in fuel economy. thanx
I'm not going to push anybody towards one car or the other. I'm going to explain both the good and the bad about both cars. I don't want to give anybody a biased decision.
compared to
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/00031.htm
How much is that worth?
I guess we would need to see a link that shows those tests erroneous. You know...Since they ought to have the facts straight. They must have looked at the changes, if any, and found them negligible.
What happened to the Accord that just the other day you said you traded your problematic Jetta in for?
Maybe that's why they didn't retest it. The main structure of the car is the same.
Here are the Nhtsa tests...
http://nhtsa.com/NCAP/SList2.cfm
PS: The new Mazda3 still retains the triple-H technology for the structure, and Mazda3 has an excellent score according to an internal test (better than the 1999 Protegé).
and the civic was 979 with the same deductible.not that big a difference to influence me towards either car.
Steven: What happened to your brand new Accord??
Yes, I'm agree! But another fact is this test compares an old version of the car model that is no longer on sale. Fact is a lot of ill-informed consumers don't know this extrapolation. Fact is extrapolating is a bad science that can often lead to mistakes and errors.
And the post-00 Proteges have significantly thicker sheetmetal in front and rear substructures, in addition to other changes (low-friction steering mechanism, larger engine, bigger wheels, more standard equipment etc.). I notice the trunk floor sheetmetal parts are also different than those in my '99. The bumpers were also made a bit stronger, and cheaper to repair as well. That's why they feel a lot more substantial than 99-00 Proteges, which already feel pretty good (I have an early '99 and not a single rattle after 45k miles, which includes a lot of miles to/from/through Detroit, MI).
stereo at my local vw-mazda dealership. i did not have a chance to listen to the 6-disk stereo in the prot es,however, i did get to listen to the monsoon system in the golf which was one of the best sounding units i have heard. with the golf being on the small side you really get a very good surround sound out of the 8 speakers. its one of the reasons iam considering a golf. how is the stereo in the protege with the 6 disk cd sound? thanx steve
Are there any differences between the LX and the ES in the suspension systems? That is, different shocks or springs or stabilizer bars?
Or is the only main MECHANICAL difference between the trimlines the rear drum vs. rear disc brakes?
Thanks very much in advance for your info.
The new Mazda6.
Maybe some of what they did to the 6 will carry forth to the 3.
That said, my 2000 ES did sustain a rear impact of about 10 mph (maybe a wee bit more) the other day, and all I've got are scratches and some traded paint from the other vehicle, plus a small dent/hole in my bumper cover from their front license plate screw. My wife backed into a telephone pole a few months ago in her Protege5, doing at least 5 mph (I witnessed it) and to our amazement the car took the hit and there's no evidence the hit ever took place.
I'm very, very impressed by the rear bumpers on the current generation Proteges and P5s.
Meade
In a room where you can get into a dispute over the slight nuances between disc vs. drum brakes, a .01 g difference in skidpad, or a .03 sec difference in 0-60 you would go so far as to say an Acura "whatever" when there wasn't even an Acura tested.
That's funny.
Blah. All I cared about was the 6. ZOOM ZOOM!!!
Meadeball
Yeah - that said .. highly impressive bumper test results from newer Mazdas. After the mid/late 90s Protege/626 bumper repair costs' fiascoes
In 4-7 years, those pseudo-lux Ho/To/Ni marques will catch up
I owned a 1994 Civic which got 37mpg highway with A/C on and 41mpg with the A/C off. My 2001 Protegé LX with auto tranny got 36mpg highway on a trip with A/C on. (28mpg city average) The Civic was 5-speed MT. Expect the Civic to be closer to the Pro if it has an A/T.
I haven't read the crash test reports nor the J.D.Powers ratings, but when I did test drives of the 2000 Pro and the 2001 Pro I *instantly* noticed the much better, solid feel of the '01's chassy. It felt like a much larger car yet still had the nimble handling. The 2000 Pro felt sort of flimsy in comparison. I also tested a 2001 Civic and it, too, felt light and less solidly built.
fowler3
An Infiniti G35 is built on a totally different platform than the Maxima. One is the FM (G35, FX35/45 and Z) and the other is the FFL (Max, Altima and Murano). Additionally, the G is available contented differently in Japan as a Skyline. Skyline if you're not aware is sort of an esteemed nameplate out there on "america's largest aircraft carrier." In europe they get it too but with 2.5 and 3.0 engines.
The advantage of the Infiniti brand would be the 4 yr/60k warranty and better service (free loaners). And it's not 10k more than any comparable American Nissan as Nissan doesn't make a RWD sports sedan. Even compared to a Maxima, the prices aren't that different. You're paying 32k (35k msrp) for a decked out G35 that will spank the living daylights out of a loaded 29k (32k msrp) front wheel drive Maxima.
Hee hee, you can't win me over here ... my Dad is a Buick owner who can't get beyond all the creature comforts and detached-from-the-road ride to realize ...
IT'S
A
CAR
The Protege is the essence of what a car is supposed to be -- it excels at its function of taking you from point A to point B, and makes getting there fun too! I don't need no stinkin' THX-certified "road theatre" sound, or Stay Puft (TM) suspension to isolate me from the road -- I'm there to drive, dammit!
Hee hee! Who's up for a beer at 8 a.m.?
Meadeball