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Steve
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v6 camry and four cylinder (1997 to 2001) uses the same one as well.
www.knfilter.com
The fact people buy them is due to successful marketing. The gadgets are like placebos to the buyers - the benefits are often purely psychological.
San Jose, CA
San Jose, CA
i base my fuel savings on:
- visual inspection of my gas gauge/trip meter
- number of liters i fill up
since day one when i bought the van, half a tank will last me roughly 260kms (about 5days). after i put in the k&n, i get over 310kms. for half a tank (about 7 days). i travel the same distance daily, before and after k&n. all these figures are without the a/c on and i use strictly supreme unleaded. the fact that half a tank last me 7 days versus 5 days before with the exact same amount of travel each day confirms to me that i am saving gas. some people would probably laugh at my explanation but unfortunately that's all i can offer.
my sienna is a 1999 model. yours is a 2001 model which comes with VVT-i which translates into better gas mileage and more power. sienna's with the VVT-i gets better gas mileage and it's also classified as ULEV. my model doesnt have VVT-i and is not classified as ULEV.
San Jose, CA
i would not hesitate to buy another k&n for my future vehicles.
MPG pre K&N = 24.05110
Post K & N = 25.31041
Now the first number is across all seasons while the second represents experience only in the last few months since I installed and reset the chip.
Could there be a seasonal effect here too? Sure.
Anyway, you have your opinion - I'll stick with my #s.
Can I assume you've actually tried what you're commenting on?
First, you're assuming K & N would license out and could make more $ doing so then distributing themselves.
Second, seems it might some auto makers meet CAFE standards although I didn't think Toyota had that issue as much as others.
Assuming K & N would give up their cash cow - Does the cost of licensing as well as red tape, approvals, recertification come out less than the perceived benefit? Not something I've seen anyone on these boards qualified to answer including myself. Maybe I'll call my buddy in product development at GM and see what he knows.
One thing is sure; the results from K & N are not consistant. Helps some people, makes no difference to others. The efficacy seems to depend on the car model AND the driver.
I avoid the tailgating, excessive braking and the lead foot and I think that helps.
May be with VVT-i we may not get that benefit as engine is controlling the fuel mixture depending on air flow.
JMO
John
from my personal experience, k&n works better in a 6 or 8 cylinder engine. i used to have a 4 cylinder car with k&n and i didnt notice any significant change in gas mileage.
One thing K&N and the other aftermarket guys could do to verify their mpg claims (and mitigate the snake oil questions) would be to submit their devices to the Certification and Compliance section of the US EPA. They will test these products in their voluntary device evaluation program.
An application for evaluation was submitted for the Tornado, but they apparently have abandoned it as they did not furnish acceptable data for EPA to conduct confirmatory testing. Don't know if K&N has asked for testing - someone should ask them.
My source is a email from Russell Banush at EPA back on July 1.
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
i traded my OEM dunlops for michelin from sears. in my opinion, nothing beats michelin. you pay a bit more but it's worth it.
if u can afford it, i recommend michelin.
No, I don't have the money, time, or inclination to try all the gadgets people try to sell, unless there's convincing scientific evidence any of them is worth a damn. Personal testimonies (including hired actors posing as average consumers, friends and relatives, and stuff you read on the internet bulletin boards from people you don't know), celebrity endorsements, and so-called expert opinions (from companies and/or experts that nobody's heard of) are NOT scientific evidence. Consumers beware - what looks like a great deal is usually only good for the person trying to sell it.
San Jose, Ca
Increase in power (hp)
longer lasting air filter
increase fuel economy.
Point 2 itself equals the cost ofthe regular filter after about 3 yrs. What i found with our 2000 sienna was that it was "kind" of underpowered sometimes. i.e starting from stop, trying to pass on a single lane highway. I used to drive a maxima before and it was one of the most responsive engines i have encountered. with the K & N i find the above mentioned encounters come very close to the maxima. The jury is still out on the fuel economy but will keep you posted after a couple of weeks of highway driving. I also remember reading somewhere that the fuel economy improves with cold air (while driving on the highway) compared to warm air (stop & go city driving).
The K&N Filter Charger is different, and does not apply to your philosophy. The paper element filters will cost about $15. and you will throw them away after 15k miles. With the K&N, you install it and forget about it. It's good for 100 thousand miles. Even if you don't get the HP increase or increased fuel economy, you still never worry if your filter needs changing. To me, that's not a gadget, that's a mandatory upgrade. Rudy
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
My experiments with K&N is they do what they claim.
'91 Miata
'97 Ram
'00 Rav4
All three vehicles had increased fuel economy, slight gain in power, and NO worries. Rudy
Cleaner Air from your Air Cleaner
(of course, my normal paper interval is 15k, so Karl could be mistaken about the 50k)
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
My original Dunlop tires will be in need of replacement soon, only 29k miles. Very dissapointing considering they were rotated properly and I drive van very gently. Outer edges are wearing. Apparently this is a problem with vans. Two friends with Siennas have same problem and one friend with Quest has same problem. I was considering switching to Michelins since I got over 70k miles on the MXV4s on my Accord. What Michelins are you using on your Sienna?
Thanks for everyones help!
Been away from the net for a while so the late response - I have both a 98 LE and 2001 XLE - the K & N is in the XLE which does have the VVTi engine.
People need to have more realistic expectations in terms of performance gain (more power, better economy) from simple, low cost modifications like changing the air filter. K&N's web site said that up to 2 to 4 percent of power gain is "possible", depending on other factors in the intake system's design. Let's accept that for now - it's possible in theory, although we don't know in practice how that affect our specific vehicle, the Sienna - this means you have the "theoretical potential" of gaining about 4 to 8 HP from the Sienna's engine. Typically the HP gain will only occurs in the upper rev range of the engine, let's say above 5000 rpm, where the demand for air/fuel flow becomes significant, based on the test data I've seen in some car magazines on air filter/muffler modifications. This kind of smally and "peaky" horsepower gain may be useful for racing applications, but obviously it's pretty useless for everyday driving in a minivan.
Why do people report better performance from their seat of the pants impression of normal driving? Everything being equal, a louder car fools the senses and makes one think it's going faster than a quieter and smoother car. Air filter and muffler modifications can do exactly that - increase noise. Now that you're driving a louder car and think you have more power, perhaps you feel you can back off on the throttle a bit in normal driving, which results in better fuel economy. Again, the placebo effect can easily account for the difference. Unless people report instrumented test results and compensate for variables in test conditions, take their claims of performance gain with a grain of salt.
In terms of saving money long term from being able to reuse the filter, you do need to clean and "recharge" it, right? How long does that take each time and what do the cleaner/oil cost? Do-it-yourselfers often consider their time and effort to be free. That's fine if you enjoy working on cars and have the time to do that. For me and many others, our free time is too valuable to be considered free to work on car maintenance. The ease and time saving of using disposal filters more than justify the small amount of added cost spread out over time.
San Jose, CA
This kind of smally and "peaky" horsepower gain may be useful for racing applications, but obviously it's pretty useless for everyday driving in a minivan.
Any HP gain is useful no matter what the application. Full loads, hot summer days, steep hills....
The ease and time saving of using disposal filters more than justify the small amount of added cost spread out over time.
This statement is completely wrong. With the K&N, you NEVER touch the filter for 50 to 100 THOUSAND miles. Even if you don't realize any HP or economy gains, you won't touch the filter. Let's do the math: K&N filter about $50., and lasts for TENS of THOUSANDS of miles. Paper element filter about $15. Lasts for 15 thousand miles. After driving for 100 thousand miles, the paper element filters has cost you about $100. Now, the K&N just needs to be cleaned and re-oiled. $5. for the oil and pennies for dish soap. and a few minutes and your K&N is ready for another 100 THOUSAND miles. Please tell me again, I forgot what you said. The ease and time saving of using disposal filters more than justify the small amount of added cost spread out over time. Oh....I see. Rudy
1. Any HP gain is useful no matter what the application. Full loads, hot summer days, steep hills....
a) How many HP did you expect to gain for $50?
b) How many HP did you actually gain in your Sienna by using K&N air filter?
c) At what RPM?
d) Does your Sienna lack power above 5000 rpm? (Mine has plenty of power even at much lower rpm. Maybe I'll let you borrow some.)
e) If you don't know the answers, maybe jeprox can help answering these questions.
2. OK, you want to spend a little extra time and save about $50 over 100,000 miles - I'm glad there is a way to do that. (Yawn.) After that it's about time to get a new vehicle, so what good is "One-million-mile" guarantee? How about asking K&N to offer "1/2-million-mile" guarantee instead (if you think you need it) and charge less for their filter in the fist place?
3. You only questioned two of the points I made. Does that mean you agree with, or at least have no response for, the rest of the points?
4. If you tend to forget what you read right after reading it, take some vitamins and get some sleep.
San Jose, CA
P.S.: Is jeprox really your brother?
San Jose, CA
Any increased performance or mileage is due to decreased restriction...what else can now get in?
Might Toyota deny any warranty claims due to the installation of an aftermarket filter? (think sludge)
increased airflow will not cause your engine to get sludge, it will let your engine breath better. some people claim that if you get more air then your chances of getting more dirt is greater. this depends on the brand/type of filter you have and depends on who you talk to.
sludge is usually caused by the breakdown of your engine oil which is caused usually by not changing the oil or coolant leaks and mixing up with your engine, etc.
this k&n filter issue is sort of like the sludge issue. it can go on forever. i know it works in my sienna and i'm very happy with it. all friends i recommended k&n to, came back with positive comments.
Cost
1) Charge for “Change Air Filter” at every 15K miles $32.95 (My dealer)
2) Cost of K&N Filter $35.95 at www.autobarn.com
3) Time taken to replace the filter may be 1 Hour for the first time (???) , later may be less
4) To clean and oil K&N Filter may be 30 minutes (Cleaning 15 minutes, drying 30 minutes, oiling 15 minutes)
Benefit
1) Just clean, oil and replace the filter every 50K miles. Cleaning kit available for $8.95
2) If there is HP/Torque increase it is an extra
3) If there is mileage increase then again it is an extra. I use my vehicle for pleasure usage and I it usually 8K-10K per year. I commute by train to office. So I do not even check my mileage, how much I am getting. But may be after putting the K&N Filter I may start keeping track of mileage
4) And yes, I like tinkering around. I have already replaced the headlight bulbs with Sylvania Cool Blue (took me 15 minutes, first timer)(Thanks Jeprox, by the way how is Sylvania Silver star, they claim 30% more light than the standard halogen?), have installed aftermarket mud flaps both on front and rear side (1 hour as I did not removed the rear wheels otherwise it would have been quicker).
So for me conclusion is to go for the K&N replacement filter (right now I have just 11k miles on odo). I may have missed some costs and some benefits.
John
took me a while to install the OEM mud flaps. i ended up taking off the wheels, much easier!
haven't heard of the sylvania silver star. i only see cool blue around here.
http://www.sylvania.com/auto/silverstar.htm
Go to "Automotive Lighting" and select Lamp replacement guide and run find for Sienna.
Sylvania Silver Star has bulb type 9003ST for Sienna.
John
i'll start looking for those silverstars next time i need some bulbs.
i noticed the wattage is higher than the cool blue, don't know if that would be too much for the OEM wirings.
As I recall, K&H used to make no mpg claims - now they do (www.knfilters.com/filtercharger.htm). That said, the EPA certification program is voluntary. My guess is that it'd be the FTC who would investigate fraudulent advertising claims in the US, judging by the Splitfire type of cases. (www.ftc.gov/opa/1997/9702/splitfir.htm).
Steve
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Thanks for the Spitfire URL - nice to see our tax $ at work!
Noticed some carbon/soot on my air filter last night so I popped into Wally World this am and got a new one (Fram, ~$6.00 )
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Also - no reply yet from K & N.
I was thinking of Bridgestone’s WS-50’s on steel rims.
PS: we do have skid control.
work real good.
i need the winter tires when we head up to the mountains during winter time. i also have chains but never used them. with my winter tires, ive travelled on roads with snow up to the 2ft. high with no probs.
Steve
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I have a 2001 LE and want to put in some after market fog lights.
I have read this thread from the beginning and I read some of you guys had a go but I did not read any follow-ups on successes.
Can anyone offer suggestions of what brand provides the quality and ease to install?
Thanks,
-C-