That must be how they do it....course if they paid union wages and benefits Tundra would be priced up there with a Mercedes or have identical quality as GM.
Tundra 70% usa and canadian content ( WAS 60 %) Non union assembled. engine and trans made in japan ! Silverado 1500 (Indiana assembled ) 92% usa and canadian content engine and trans. made in USA Made by union auto workers too. Read the federal content labels carefully ! Now THAT is a Tundra problem !
Americans are shunning this marketing disaster in droves? By that standard I guess Bama is also saying Americans are shunning the Tundra, right? Check the recent sales figures. And so what if it's made in Old Mexico? What have you got against Mexicans? Huh Bama??
GM outsourcing jobs to other countries? Bama, tell us where your Tundra's gutless iFarts V8 was made? No on second thought never mind, I'll tell them since you probably don't even know. Japan.
All Tundras made in USA? Not all of all Tundra are made in the US, apparantly. My Chevy 1500 was assembled in Pontiac, MI. Vortec V8s are made in Romulus, MI and St Catherines, ON.
Canada is a great nation with great people. If part of my truck is made there, I could'nt be happier. At least I know the guts of my truck are from North American sources and not shipped over on a boat from an island halfway around the world.
And before you tenderhearted Tundra boys get your toes in a knot remember-Bammy and Cowboy bought this subject up.
"....course if they paid union wages and benefits Tundra would be priced up there with a Mercedes or have identical quality as GM"
Better yet, why don't they follow GM and start making all their garbage in Mexico! BTW, have you seen a decrease in prices on GM vehicles made in Mexico? Are such decreases commensurate with the drastic reduction in production costs? Or are you just plain FOS? The simpler explanation tends to be the correct one...
For once we agree...I wanted a Avalanche Found out its assembled in Mexico ! Asked salesman "why not cheaper" ? He was clueless..at least Canadian autoworkers get a good living wage ! I guess we can thank our dumb govt. for NAFTA......Remember Ross Perot ? talkin about that giant sucking sound for American and Canadian jobs leaving our countries a few years back ? By golly he WAS right !..........Geo
Remember import restrictions on cars and trucks a few years back? Remember good ol' loyal to USA toyota sent their trucks over minus the beds, mirrors, etc. and assembled them in port to avoid those restrictions ! Gov't closed the loophole so they had to build a truck plant...Guess where ?
My mom and uncle worked for GM for many years. Plant closed in the early 90s and all the old timers got THE GOLDEN PARACHUTE, Health bennys, early FULL pension, and $$$. I love GM. They PAID for my Cars,trucks, houses, boats, campers, college, and bought ALL our businesses. Sure i will admit a couple of my GMs were troublesome 87 T/a and my VETTE. But I have posted about my 2 troublesome toyota pick ups too......geo
BTW: Freemont is a joint venture of toy and gm built to avoid import restrictions tooo. What about all those german VWs built in Mexico ?
but I too have relatives who work for GM. They admittedly buy GM vehicles but only because they qualify for the "GMS" prices which can be a steal. They also complain of their ever increasing work hours and responsibilities with the downsizing that has happened. I don't get the impression that everything is peaches and cream. It took my cousin years before he actually landed a job with GM as a M.E. because he had to work for a contract company first. Recently, he just had a paycut.
Sorry you didn't have better luck with your Toyotas, but I get the impression your only experiences with Toyota were in the 70s and 80s. Let's be honest, the domestics weren't doing too hot either in that era. They should be chastised as well. I can assure you the rust issues have been cleaned up, and I've certainly never had a premature head-gasket failure.
I'm not saying Toyota is all pro-America. They're a Japanese company! All I'm saying is the actions taken by the domestic manufacturers are making it easier and easier for Americans to buy Japanese vehicles (especially the "American made" ones) and not feel guilty about it.
Come up here to RUST belt New york. Check out most late model Tacos. Rust like crazy ! The darnway they put the bed together....Ya should see a 5 yo honda around here ! And thanks my 72 GTO is still hanging in there ! Owned since 1974...But no winters on that bad boy !
What happened was when the VW Rabbit went into production in Germany, the German plants ceased making the Bug. VW didn't have the capacity at the time to produce the Rabbit AND the Bug (both world-wide best sellers). There was such huge demand for the Bug worldwide production continued in non-German plants, mainly in Mexico and Brazil. This is what paved the way for the newer VWs being produced in these countries, whereas GM's venture into overseas production seems to be driven by greed. It's not as if GM had to start production in Mexico and Canada to cope with demand. Rather, it began to immediatly do so upon NAFTA going into effect so that it could take advantage of outrageously cheap labor and low import tariffs.
Don't know what to say other than you're the first to tell me late model Toyotas are more rust-prone that other makes, even in the "rust belt." Our 1974 Corolla never had a speck of rust on it, even after living on the California coast for a number of years. But to be fair I guess I should bring up GM's notorious paint-peeling problems. I personally have seen FAR MORE GMs on the road with their peeled paint revealing that ugly primer gray than I have seen rusted Toyotas. BTW, Toyota does offer extensive warranty coverage for rust, and my truck looks like it's brand new, paint is great and no rust.
The new beetle and jetta ? made in Mexico ? REMEMBER ALL big corps. are greedy not just GM. They will take advantage of poverty wages whereever possible ! It really stinks too cuz there aren't too many good paying jobs left anymore especially if you are not college educated (spl). Heck I have college grads. working for me that cannot find A good job in their fields.....
Warped brakes can be fixed. But GM admits your Allison transmissions and knocking engines with piston slap CANNOT be fixed. That's just "normal" for a GM!
I think you like the older GM products and the older GM philosophy. But I think the newer GM is a different animal. While I can understand you liking your GTO, do you really think the new stuff is as good? The new Impala is just a shadow of its former self. The Cavalier and Malibu are totally outclassed by the competition from Toyota and Honda, and it shows in the sales figures. As far as corporate greed goes - sure it exists in all corporations, but some will go farther than others when it comes to making money at all costs. Furthermore, there are quite a few posters here at Edmunds who admit to being former GM loyalists who have simply become too frustrated recently with their newer GMs to ever consider buying another.
My sons 95 cavilier runs fine. The kid ain't killed it yet. My cousin just got a new Trailblazer rebate GMS too. Their troublefree 90 cavalier wagon 110k went to their 17 yo. Timing belt snapped at 70k on their 96 Camry...Goodbye motor ! They have been lookin at another new car and are driving the other boys 93 sunbird while hes over in sand land...Kickin on the talibans butt...GO USMC !
Peeling paint happened on many other makes also...Check out older mopars. It was PPGs fault ..not GM or mopar. They warrantied most of the peelers Long after warranty expired. My rusted 3 yo toy trucks....Toy told me too bad out of luck ! BTW: One of the old guys that comes to my bar was complaning about his peeling van. I told him tell that dealer about the SECRET warranty. I printed it up off puter and he took it to dealer....Free paint job !...He still thanks me with his business every day !
How in the heck is all this smack about where a vehicle is built have any thing to do with Tundra problems?..Keeping to the topic..I own a 2000 Tundra and LOVE it!!..28k miles and not the FIRST little bit of any problem..rides like a luxury car with the benifits of a truck..and for all the Ford, Chevy, GM guys who say its not a full size..can't wait to hear what they say when the 3/4 ton comes out..understand this really has some CEO's dreading that day..Happy Trucking!!
I always new that gm had their piston slap, along with numerous other problems. Sounds like you take it kind of hard when all their defects are pointed out to ya!. Congratulations on you truck being built in the heartland does is still make you feel any better are embarrassed knowing that such a lack of quality can be built in the good ole U.S.A., Maybe thats why you have to post in a Tundra site. I also would get tired of hearing complaints in the lemonado site. Maybe a little sun on your head are was it neck would do you some good. good luck on this now.
Just got to keep beating these GM zealots with the facts.
As far as Tundra problems goes, mine is perfect except for a weak seat belt retractor. I have never had it back to the dealer since purchasing it 2 1/2 years ago.
Tundra with a V8 and a 5 speed stick! I love my Tacoma but wouldn't mind a bigger truck, but I absolutely WILL NOT settle for an automatic transmission. WHEN are they going to offer a manual transmission???
I wouldn't hold my breath on the V-8 with a manual being offered from Toyota. My guess is that not until they open at least one more assembly plant for the Tundra. I think the main reason they do not offer it now is because for the small quantity of V-8's that would be sold with a manual transmission will not make up for the loss in turning them out on the assembly line, once the Tundra starts to sell more and yearly production gets up around 200K then I believe more options will become available allowing the Tundra to compete even more with the big three.
My guess would be that the Tundra V8 with a stick will be available sooner than something made by GM that uses overhead cams, 5 speed automatic transmissions (not even Cadillacs have a 5 speed) and electronic valve timing and lift.
Talk about archaic! And all that engine knocking? Those Vorwreck engines of yours sound just like the first engines 100 years ago with all that knocking until they started adding lead to gasoline!
I'm confused by your statements. GM already has a light duty overhead cam 6 cylinder in the trailblazer that makes more horsepower than I-Farce V8. And they've had a 5 speed automatic in the trucks for 2 years now. And no toymota truck uses electronic valve timing and lift.
the Chevy sales last month? It seems that the Rado sales took a big dump and they are down 3% over the same time last year. LOL. The Tundra, by comparison, is up 6.1% year-to-year. Even with all $2002 rebates Chevy is having a hard time unloading its lemonado.
But never fear, there are enough chevy blind loyalist to buy this junk since they think they are patriotic by buying chevy products.
Well, don't you think it's about time? They're only a decade or two late...and my statements of 5 speed transmissions and valve lift/timing apply to their cars more than anything.
"I'm confused by your statements. GM already has a light duty overhead cam 6 cylinder in the trailblazer that makes more horsepower than I-Farce V8."
Light duty? Why would you want to put a peaky engine in a truck? The Frailblazer HP peaks at 6000RPM. Sort of unusable in a truck - like Chev's peaky 5.3L V8. The Tundra V8 has more usuable low end power.
(plutonious) This is precisely why I bought the Dakota... I wanted a V8 with a 5speed manual. (Plus Dodges are known to not rust as quickly as most other vehicles exceot mabie the Galvonized ones) That is important to me here in Vermont where one NEVER wears out a vehicle... they rust out.
My buddy at work has a Tundra and we compare trucks often. Time will tell which one stands up to all of the roadsalt...
Hey when I asked you about the 12K warranty and which vehicles you had rust/head gasket problems with, I wasn't being sarcastic, was actually curious lol. I wasn't old enough to buy vehicles in the 70s or whenever you aquired those gems. BTW the sandwiches could use a little more cheese next time.
but isn't a 6.1% increase decent to say the least. Especially coming from a relatively new truck and a lower yearly production than others in its class. If they were to continue that trend, the Tundra would be near the top in a matter of no time, relatively speaking lol.
I truly believe that the Tundra's success is solely in the hands of Toyota now. Meaning that as long as they continue to keep quality a priority, and incorporate new ideas/options into it, it won't falter. As long as the Toyota consumer feels they will get the classic reliability and quality Toyota has boasted over the years, then Tundra should continue to increase and secure a substantial market share.
Toyota is a very conservative company. Thery take their time and learn from their mistakes. They learned from the T100 and not offering a V8 in the US market in a truck.
I think Toyota is working hard on the Tundra short comings. Lack of rear seat space, shallow bed, and more variations in body style/sizes. This will take time to incorporate into the Tundra. Toyota likes to keep its products simple so they can last long. They believe in quality over quantity. too many variations and the quality of the truck will suffer.
But Toyota will get there. If toyota's aim is to dominate the light full-size truck market, then I certain that toyota will achieve that. Toyota did that with small and mid size cars and luxury cars with lexus. There is no reason why Toyota cannot do it with light full-size trucks.
Percentages mean squat. Look at the overall sales figures. I thought tbunder had explained all this. Didn't think I had to explain if for you.
Toyota may have done whatever you say they did with the small and midsized car market. For one moment think about this. If GM and Ford ever thought that their position threatened do you think they would stand there and allow it to happen? Think the American president and Congress would allow GM or Ford to go bankrupt? Ever heard of import tariffs? Don't know how many Tundra owners there would be if one had to pay $50K for one. Think its called balancing the trade imbalance.
Both of you are insecure about the future of Chevy trucks. You know what is going to happen. The writing is on the wall. The SUV/truck market is going to be cracked wide open for the imports just like they cracked the midsize/small size sedan market and the Luxury market. It took Lexus 10 years to become number one in sales in the Luxury car market. I doubt that it will take toyota more than 15 years to dominate the full size truck market.
Oby, import tarrifs do not apply to cars/trucks that are manufactured/assembled in the US. That is what Toyota/Nissan/Honda/BMW/Daimler are doing. They are building factories in the US to make and assemble cars/tucks. I think if Ford and GM cannot compete in the market, then they should go bankrupt. I would not even shed a crocodile's tear.
You guys amaze me. When the tundra sales figures were reported down in Feb, you had no problem citing the numbers and rubbing it in. Now that the Rado's numbers have declined, you reject precentages and tell us to look at the over all sales figures. Well Duh!!! The Rado better have more sales numbers than the Tundra. After all, Chevy has been producing that heap for over 30 years.
It peaks at 275lb-ft @ 3600 rpms but is still able to make a strong 250lb-ft at about 1500 rpms!! How much torque does the Toyota 4.7 make at that rpms level???
It's also flat and making 300lb-ft of torque at slightly over 2000 rpms, even though the peak of 325 is at 4000 rpms. You're ingorant if you judge motors based on peak output alone.
Sorry but I can't seem to find that elusive iForce V8 curve posted anywhere. Toyota keeps it scarce(Hmmm...). Anybody know where to find it?
While no truck ever handles as good as a well set-up sedan, Tundra comes close. The rack-and-pinion steering is far superior to the recirculating ball design steering used by some other manufacturers and the 18.6 steering ratio with 3.38 turns, lock-to-lock provide excellent steering response and feedback, making this a fun vehicle to drive on a daily basis.
Braking is accomplished via a conventional front disc/rear drum setup. But it is a good one and features large 12.6-inch discs with 4-piston calipers up front and 11.6-inch drums in the rear give this truck strong braking abilities. Published factory figures for a V-8 powered Tundra carrying a 1,200 lbs. payload show a 70-0 mph stopping distance of just 199.8 feet, which translates to a stopping distance that's 19.2 feet shorter than the Silverado, 26 feet shorter than the F-150, and 28.3 feet shorter than the Dodge Ram (all carrying the same payload). This excellent stopping distance is enhanced by a firm pedal feel and straight line stopping.
Once you drive a Tundra equipped with Lexus-derived engine, it is easy to see why. This 4.7-liter V-8 puts out 245 hp and a whopping 315 lbs.-ft. of torque, has lightening quick acceleration, loads of pulling power and only a one mpg penalty over the V-6. Yeah, getting the V-8 raises the Tundra's sticker price by about three grand, but the difference in performance, as well as in hauling and towing ability, make this cost insignificant.
The powerplant is a little unique in the pickup truck world. It is the first DOHC, 32-valve engine offered in a pickup. Traditionally, DOHC engines haven't used in pickups. While engines of this type pump out plenty of horsepower, they don't usually deliver enough low-end torque for the hauling and towing needs of the pickup owner. Toyota's engineers solved this problem by making the intake runners longer to improve low-end torque while keeping the plenum large, so horsepower numbers stay high. Other features on the engine include electronic throttle control, direct-to-sparkplug ignition (eliminates distributor, rotor, and plug wires) and a liquid-cooler oil filter. The benefits of this last item are prolonged oil life and reduced engine operating temperatures, something that's important for a vehicle with a 7200 lb. towing capacity. One of the big problems with towing heavy loads is that oil and fluid temperatures get high when the vehicle is under load, shortening the life of both the engine and transmission.
Performance wise, the 4.7 liter V-8 is world class. Jump on the pedal and get instantly rewarded with a solid launch and quick acceleration. Toyota's published 0-60 mph time for their 4x2 model is just 7.87 seconds a full 1.6 seconds faster than the Chevrolet Silverado, the quickest of the competition. Passing time is just as impressive. With a 6,500 lb. trailer attached, the Tundra clocked a 40 -60 mph passing time 14.73 seconds 4.37 seconds quicker than the F-150, the fastest of the competition in this category. When you are trying to get around a slow tractor/trailer combination or get around a vehicle on a hill, a difference of over four seconds between the Tundra and the next closest competitor makes a huge difference in the margin of safety.
-------------------------------------------------- This came from www.truckworld.com/Truck-Tests/Toyota-Tundra/tundra2.html
Since you love to compare engine stats, why haven't you mentioned Dodge's 4.7 Magnum V8? It makes less horses and torque than Toyota's 4.7 iForce V8.
This just proves that the domestic guys will shred anything made by Toyota (or any other non-big-3 manufacturer) simply because they're irrational and resistant to anything new.
How quickly we forget history. You remember a guy by the name of Lee Ioccoca? Your statement...
"I think if Ford and GM cannot compete in the market, then they should go bankrupt. I would not even shed a crocodile's tear.
makes no sense. You should contemplate the economic consequences of your statement. ON second thought, we're still stuck on forged pistons aren't we.
Pluto-
Ever seen actual dyno results of the HP and Torque? Every manufacturer may be guilty of "adjusting" their peak HP and torque. Any links? Oh and btw, its a lot easier to simply post the link to the article rather than have your post deleted for copyright violation. Edmunds is sensitive to what you've just done. Doubt me? Ask the host.
Sorry couldn't spar with ya. Great weather here in Alexandria Bay NY......Had to take the kids fishin' and the woman dancing ! Kids drivin me nuts to drop in the watercraft. I wanna use my pullin' Chevy to haul the big boat down to the river today !
BTW; EMT my toy trucks were 74 & 79 ..... 1 yr 12k miles warranty toy quality HA!
Play nice today or PF will shut down the playground !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.......Geo
I'm looking for a Toyota dealer in the Northeast who will "order build" a Tundra exactly as follows:SR5 Access Cab,V8,4WD,ABS(AB),Limited Slip(LS),EVP Convenience Package(VP),3-in-1 Stereo(DZ,All Weather Guard Package (CK). I have one dealer who has been attempting to do so for some 3 weeks but won't know for certain if it is possible until the 29th. I have spoken to others who say it is definately possible but show NO enthusiasm for trying. I had hoped to replace my tired old F-150 but none of the dealerships I've spoken to seem at all interested (with the one noted exception)in "moving the metal."None of my conversations with dealers have yet involved price-I can't even get them to commit to finding/building this vehicle. Times must be awfully good in their industry. Does anybody know of a Toyota dealer in the Northeast who will is interested in finding or having this vehicle built?
Yer outta luck ! Toys are made one way. THEIR WAY ! At least the big 3 will order what ever ya want. Toyota dealers take what they are given ! Loaded and pricey especially a Tundra......Good luck !
Comments
A third of the Shakerados are made in Canada.
It is a shame that GM is outsourcing US manufacturing jobs.
ALL Tundras are made in the USA.
( WAS 60 %) Non union assembled.
engine and trans made in japan !
Silverado 1500 (Indiana assembled )
92% usa and canadian content
engine and trans. made in USA
Made by union auto workers too.
Read the federal content labels carefully !
Now THAT is a Tundra problem !
GOOD LUCK ON THIS ONE NOW.........
Americans are shunning this marketing disaster in droves? By that standard I guess Bama is also saying Americans are shunning the Tundra, right? Check the recent sales figures. And so what if it's made in Old Mexico? What have you got against Mexicans? Huh Bama??
GM outsourcing jobs to other countries? Bama, tell us where your Tundra's gutless iFarts V8 was made? No on second thought never mind, I'll tell them since you probably don't even know. Japan.
All Tundras made in USA? Not all of all Tundra are made in the US, apparantly. My Chevy 1500 was assembled in Pontiac, MI. Vortec V8s are made in Romulus, MI and St Catherines, ON.
http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/engines/vortec/apps/vehicle/vortec5300_lm7.htm
Canada is a great nation with great people. If part of my truck is made there, I could'nt be happier. At least I know the guts of my truck are from North American sources and not shipped over on a boat from an island halfway around the world.
And before you tenderhearted Tundra boys get your toes in a knot remember-Bammy and Cowboy bought this subject up.
Better yet, why don't they follow GM and start making all their garbage in Mexico! BTW, have you seen a decrease in prices on GM vehicles made in Mexico? Are such decreases commensurate with the drastic reduction in production costs? Or are you just plain FOS? The simpler explanation tends to be the correct one...
"identical quality as GM"
God, I hope not!
Found out its assembled in Mexico !
Asked salesman "why not cheaper" ?
He was clueless..at least Canadian
autoworkers get a good living wage !
I guess we can thank our dumb govt.
for NAFTA......Remember Ross Perot ?
talkin about that giant sucking sound
for American and Canadian jobs leaving
our countries a few years back ?
By golly he WAS right !..........Geo
and trucks a few years back?
Remember good ol' loyal to USA toyota
sent their trucks over minus the beds,
mirrors, etc. and assembled them in port
to avoid those restrictions ! Gov't closed
the loophole so they had to build a truck
plant...Guess where ?
many years. Plant closed in the early 90s
and all the old timers got THE GOLDEN
PARACHUTE, Health bennys, early FULL
pension, and $$$. I love GM. They
PAID for my Cars,trucks, houses, boats,
campers, college, and bought ALL our
businesses. Sure i will admit a couple of my
GMs were troublesome 87 T/a and my VETTE.
But I have posted about my 2 troublesome
toyota pick ups too......geo
BTW: Freemont is a joint venture of toy and gm
built to avoid import restrictions tooo.
What about all those german VWs built in Mexico ?
Sorry you didn't have better luck with your Toyotas, but I get the impression your only experiences with Toyota were in the 70s and 80s. Let's be honest, the domestics weren't doing too hot either in that era. They should be chastised as well. I can assure you the rust issues have been cleaned up, and I've certainly never had a premature head-gasket failure.
I'm not saying Toyota is all pro-America. They're a Japanese company! All I'm saying is the actions taken by the domestic manufacturers are making it easier and easier for Americans to buy Japanese vehicles (especially the "American made" ones) and not feel guilty about it.
Check out most late model Tacos.
Rust like crazy ! The darnway they
put the bed together....Ya should see a
5 yo honda around here !
And thanks my 72 GTO is still hanging
in there ! Owned since 1974...But no
winters on that bad boy !
REMEMBER ALL big corps. are greedy not just
GM. They will take advantage of poverty
wages whereever possible ! It really
stinks too cuz there aren't too many good
paying jobs left anymore especially if
you are not college educated (spl). Heck
I have college grads. working for me that
cannot find A good job in their fields.....
ain't killed it yet. My cousin just
got a new Trailblazer rebate GMS too.
Their troublefree 90 cavalier wagon 110k
went to their 17 yo. Timing belt snapped
at 70k on their 96 Camry...Goodbye motor !
They have been lookin at another new car
and are driving the other boys 93 sunbird
while hes over in sand land...Kickin on
the talibans butt...GO USMC !
makes also...Check out older mopars.
It was PPGs fault ..not GM or mopar.
They warrantied most of the peelers
Long after warranty expired. My rusted
3 yo toy trucks....Toy told me too bad
out of luck !
BTW: One of the old guys that comes to my bar was
complaning about his peeling van. I told him
tell that dealer about the SECRET warranty.
I printed it up off puter and he took it to
dealer....Free paint job !...He still thanks me
with his business every day !
Thanks
PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards
GM threads. So I guess fair is fair !
Sorry PF..I'm off to my room !
33.7% of Shakerados were built in Canada so far this year - Sorry to burst your erroneous bubble.
http://www.autonews.com/files/prod.pdf
Hound - Toyota is building an engine plant in Huntsville, Ala for Tundra engines.
The Tundra outsold the Mexalanche in March. It's sales are up 6.1% so far this year. Source: http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/otf0999.html
Just got to keep beating these GM zealots with the facts.
As far as Tundra problems goes, mine is perfect except for a weak seat belt retractor. I have never had it back to the dealer since purchasing it 2 1/2 years ago.
Talk about archaic! And all that engine knocking? Those Vorwreck engines of yours sound just like the first engines 100 years ago with all that knocking until they started adding lead to gasoline!
But never fear, there are enough chevy blind loyalist to buy this junk since they think they are patriotic by buying chevy products.
Light duty? Why would you want to put a peaky engine in a truck? The Frailblazer HP peaks at 6000RPM. Sort of unusable in a truck - like Chev's peaky 5.3L V8. The Tundra V8 has more usuable low end power.
My buddy at work has a Tundra and we compare trucks often. Time will tell which one stands up to all of the roadsalt...
In the same time period the Tundra sales INCREASE 6.1% and according to Oby that is a bad thing?
What is Chev going to do? - stop building Shakerados and start building Vegas again? Come to think of it - this may improve their quality.
I truly believe that the Tundra's success is solely in the hands of Toyota now. Meaning that as long as they continue to keep quality a priority, and incorporate new ideas/options into it, it won't falter. As long as the Toyota consumer feels they will get the classic reliability and quality Toyota has boasted over the years, then Tundra should continue to increase and secure a substantial market share.
I think Toyota is working hard on the Tundra short comings. Lack of rear seat space, shallow bed, and more variations in body style/sizes. This will take time to incorporate into the Tundra. Toyota likes to keep its products simple so they can last long. They believe in quality over quantity. too many variations and the quality of the truck will suffer.
But Toyota will get there. If toyota's aim is to dominate the light full-size truck market, then I certain that toyota will achieve that. Toyota did that with small and mid size cars and luxury cars with lexus. There is no reason why Toyota cannot do it with light full-size trucks.
Toyota may have done whatever you say they did with the small and midsized car market. For one moment think about this. If GM and Ford ever thought that their position threatened do you think they would stand there and allow it to happen? Think the American president and Congress would allow GM or Ford to go bankrupt? Ever heard of import tariffs? Don't know how many Tundra owners there would be if one had to pay $50K for one. Think its called balancing the trade imbalance.
112,000(1.061^32)= 746,000 GM trucks.
If GM has a 2% annual growth rate, it would take 42.7 years.
Got time?
Oby, import tarrifs do not apply to cars/trucks that are manufactured/assembled in the US. That is what Toyota/Nissan/Honda/BMW/Daimler are doing. They are building factories in the US to make and assemble cars/tucks. I think if Ford and GM cannot compete in the market, then they should go bankrupt. I would not even shed a crocodile's tear.
You guys amaze me. When the tundra sales figures were reported down in Feb, you had no problem citing the numbers and rubbing it in. Now that the Rado's numbers have declined, you reject precentages and tell us to look at the over all sales figures. Well Duh!!! The Rado better have more sales numbers than the Tundra. After all, Chevy has been producing that heap for over 30 years.
The Big2 better wakeup. American auto buyers aren't accepting the same business as usual. They expect quality and reliability.
Toyota is gaining American marketshare that it will be difficult for the Big2 to regain, if ever.
The Tundra recorded best-ever March sales, with sales of 9,882 units, up 14.2 percent over the same period last year.
Check out the curves for the following engine you are criticizing:
Vortec 4.2 I6: http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/engines/vortec/apps/vehicle/images/ll8curve.jpg
It peaks at 275lb-ft @ 3600 rpms but is still able to make a strong 250lb-ft at about 1500 rpms!! How much torque does the Toyota 4.7 make at that rpms level???
Here's the 5.3L: http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/engines/vortec/apps/vehicle/images/lm7curve.jpg
It's also flat and making 300lb-ft of torque at slightly over 2000 rpms, even though the peak of 325 is at 4000 rpms. You're ingorant if you judge motors based on peak output alone.
Sorry but I can't seem to find that elusive iForce V8 curve posted anywhere. Toyota keeps it scarce(Hmmm...). Anybody know where to find it?
Braking is accomplished via a conventional front disc/rear drum setup. But it is a good one and features large 12.6-inch discs with 4-piston calipers up front and 11.6-inch drums in the rear give this truck strong braking abilities. Published factory figures for a V-8 powered Tundra carrying a 1,200 lbs. payload show a 70-0 mph stopping distance of just 199.8 feet, which translates to a stopping distance that's 19.2 feet shorter than the Silverado, 26 feet shorter than the F-150, and 28.3 feet shorter than the Dodge Ram (all carrying the same payload). This excellent stopping distance is enhanced by a firm pedal feel and straight line stopping.
Once you drive a Tundra equipped with Lexus-derived engine, it is easy to see why. This 4.7-liter V-8 puts out 245 hp and a whopping 315 lbs.-ft. of torque, has lightening quick acceleration, loads of pulling power and only a one mpg penalty over the V-6. Yeah, getting the V-8 raises the Tundra's sticker price by about three grand, but the difference in performance, as well as in hauling and towing ability, make this cost insignificant.
The powerplant is a little unique in the pickup truck world. It is the first DOHC, 32-valve engine offered in a pickup. Traditionally, DOHC engines haven't used in pickups. While engines of this type pump out plenty of horsepower, they don't usually deliver enough low-end torque for the hauling and towing needs of the pickup owner. Toyota's engineers solved this problem by making the intake runners longer to improve low-end torque while keeping the plenum large, so horsepower numbers stay high. Other features on the engine include electronic throttle control, direct-to-sparkplug ignition (eliminates distributor, rotor, and plug wires) and a liquid-cooler oil filter. The benefits of this last item are prolonged oil life and reduced engine operating temperatures, something that's important for a vehicle with a 7200 lb. towing capacity. One of the big problems with towing heavy loads is that oil and fluid temperatures get high when the vehicle is under load, shortening the life of both the engine and transmission.
Performance wise, the 4.7 liter V-8 is world class. Jump on the pedal and get instantly rewarded with a solid launch and quick acceleration. Toyota's published 0-60 mph time for their 4x2 model is just 7.87 seconds a full 1.6 seconds faster than the Chevrolet Silverado, the quickest of the competition. Passing time is just as impressive. With a 6,500 lb. trailer attached, the Tundra clocked a 40 -60 mph passing time 14.73 seconds 4.37 seconds quicker than the F-150, the fastest of the competition in this category. When you are trying to get around a slow tractor/trailer combination or get around a vehicle on a hill, a difference of over four seconds between the Tundra and the next closest competitor makes a huge difference in the margin of safety.
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This came from www.truckworld.com/Truck-Tests/Toyota-Tundra/tundra2.html
This just proves that the domestic guys will shred anything made by Toyota (or any other non-big-3 manufacturer) simply because they're irrational and resistant to anything new.
"I think if Ford and GM cannot compete in the market, then they should go bankrupt. I would not even shed a crocodile's tear.
makes no sense. You should contemplate the economic consequences of your statement. ON second thought, we're still stuck on forged pistons aren't we.
Pluto-
Ever seen actual dyno results of the HP and Torque? Every manufacturer may be guilty of "adjusting" their peak HP and torque. Any links? Oh and btw, its a lot easier to simply post the link to the article rather than have your post deleted for copyright violation. Edmunds is sensitive to what you've just done. Doubt me? Ask the host.
here in Alexandria Bay NY......Had to take
the kids fishin' and the woman dancing !
Kids drivin me nuts to drop in the watercraft.
I wanna use my pullin' Chevy to haul the big
boat down to the river today !
BTW; EMT my toy trucks were 74 & 79 .....
1 yr 12k miles warranty toy quality HA!
Play nice today or PF will shut down the
playground !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.......Geo
THEIR WAY ! At least the big 3 will order
what ever ya want. Toyota dealers take
what they are given ! Loaded and pricey
especially a Tundra......Good luck !