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Comments
Where di you test drive the Liberty and what did they tell you with regard to pricing?
I certainly hope a brand new vehicle off the lot isn't rattling aleady.
If it still isn't rattling at 36,000 miles, that will be nice.
Does anyone know how a dealer can be unaware that a vehicle he ordered with an option (sunroof) can show-up without it. He claims he had no prior knowledge.
BMW, this seems to be a perennial Chrysler problem... a new car line that is unavailable with sunroof at the beginning. Why can't they figure it it in advance.
Does anyone have the REAL story... and a timeframe for delivery of the sunroof?
Sunroof: Who cares? If you want open air motoring, buy a Jeep, I mean Wrangler.
Do they still make the Range Rover Defender?
1. Sunroofs relieve the cast expanse of dark headliner. I would never buy a car without one, and as for a Wrangler...why put up with the crudity just for an open roof.
2. And speaking of crudity...the Land Rover (not Range Rover...) Defender is still being made. It has been made continuously since 1947 (under different names, Defender being the most recent). The Defender is no longer imported into the U.S. however.
Re: rattles.
If this were any other brand, other than Jeep, I probably wouldn't have mentioned it.
Bob
Here are some prices for various options:
Off-Road package: Sport = $765.00, Limited = $520.00
Tow package: Sport & Limited = $325.00
Tow package (if you order Off-Road package too): Sport & Limited = $245.00
Alloy wheels: Sport $310.00
Sunroof: Sport & Limited = $700.00
The dealer indicated that, according to his order book, you can only get A/T tires on the Sport if you order the Off-Road package. A/T tires are a no-charge option on the Limited. Also, I forgot to ask what ABS would cost.
Bob
If DC would have been able to put the spare tire somewhere else, fold down the back seats entirely, put the darn sunroof in, have the back open up/down, and have a better quality track record on its Jeep vehicles, I would have bought the Liberty.
Matt
Matt
Matt
The dealer has assured me that the recalls will be checked and taken care of before the vehicle leaves the factory, and the tires won't be Firestones.
Yup, I'm taking my chances. You're right. I guess you could say I'd stack more marbles in Ford's bucket than in Jeep's at this point.
RE: the escape/tribute - 5 recalls, most were minor and affected a limited amount of vehicles. only one I believe was design related (wiper problem) the rest were because of shoddy QC. What scares me about the escape are the problems some owners are reporting that are not being recalled like a fuel smell (V6 only) coming through the air vents upon restarts in warm weather, cheap paint jobs, and a whole host of shakes & rattles.
not to mention the offset crash test results.
The Limited had leather and every option but the Moonroof, ABS, and SIB.
The seats were comfortable, spacious and supportive. The rear seats were not cramped and seemed very nice as well.
The rear cargo area was spacious, yet not quite as large as the Escape. I could tell that simply by eyeing it up.
My only complaint would be the metal trim on the doors and mirror adjustment plate. Seems like that may wear out very quickly, or simply show wear a lot easier than other materials. I also picked up the comprehensive brochure as well.
I asked the sales guy some questions but he seemed annoyed and clueless as to specifics. I wanted to yell at him "GIVE ME A BREAK BUDDY I AM THE MALE DEMOGRAPHIC YOU WANT TO SELL THIS TOO."
He did say that they had taken "a ton of orders." I doubt I'll go back to this dealership as their attitudce overall stinks and they have a reputation of not negotiating in the slightest. With plenty of Jeep dealers in the Baltimore area, come Fall I predict pricing will be ok.
Bob
It was Don White's in Timonium. This is the same dealer that has 20 PT Cruisers in its lot, all marked up 5K over sticker. Friends warned about this dealer as their service center stinks and their sales people rude. Heck, I expected to be treated decently, but I guess showing up to a dealer in shorts, a long sleeve T-shirt and hat means that you get treated rudely.
I like the Liberty, but as Jim Healy in USA Today said in his test drive "Whether the production vehicles are as good as the pre-production ones remains to be seen." I agree with everyone on this board that Jeep hasn't had the best launches, but after having sat in the vehicle, that is my only concern. And it is a huge one!
Also, I did not know that any Limited model that has the G package, also has to come with leather. I liked the color of the leather so it may not be a bit deal.
I test drove 2 sports. I saw a limited but they were not yet ready to be test driven. The vehicle has great ground clearance (about 10") which is better than any other vehicle I've test driven (even better than the GJC). You sit up high and have a good view of the road. The view from the Escape is probably better but I think that's because their windshield seems larger. The Liberty felt much more solid than the Escape and for that matter more solid than than any other vehicle I drove except for the GJC.
The center console area is well laid out. Cup holders are solid and a nice size. The center console is not as large as the Escape or the GJC but more than adequate for my needs. The automatic gear shift, the 4X4 lever and the emergency break are nicely positioned. I liked this layout more than the GJC.
The glove box is small but adequate for my needs. They also have a separate area in the glove box to put the manual which I thought was a nice feature.
There is no doubt that this is the best 4X4 in its class. If you need a good 4X4 this vehicle will not let you down on an isolated trail.
Now for what I didn't like. Unfortunately, this is a big item for me. The back seats do not fold flat to make a flat cargo area. The seats are very easy to fold down. You can do it with one hand. However, since you do not pull the seat cushion forward like you do in the GJC, the seat will not go completely flat. This is a BIG disappointment for me because I like having my dog behind my seat and then the luggage behind her. The way this is laid out, she would have to lie in the back where it is flat but then the luggage would roll on to her while I was driving.
I realize this is not a concern for everybody but its enough of one for me that I have decided not to buy the Liberty. I am ready to buy a car now and am very disappointed that I have to rethink my choices. Right now I am considering waiting a year to see if Jeep fixes this problem, go out of my budget and buy a GJC or consider an Escape. I know the Escape does not compare when you compare true 4X4. However it is in my budget. I like the Grand but its more expensive and the Liberty is more the size I need. I'm having a hard time deciding now because I don't know if I can wait a year to purchase a vehicle.
Several years ago, one of their salesman give me the one finger "salute," after my comparing Jeeps with Toyotas. I wrote a letter to the president of that dealer complaining about that salesman. I never heard a reply.
Patrica-
While the rear seat doesn't fold "completely" flat, I think it fold flat enough for most people. I know there are plenty of cargo tie-downs, if that will help. You may also consider getting a dog/cargo barrier. I don't know if Jeep offers one, but I know there are "universal" units that fit most any SUV.
Bob
Bob
I am sure they are flying off the lots, it is a great looking vehicle. But, what will happen when the other 2002's get introduced later this summer? I'd say the Liberty's may be sticking on the lots a bit longer. And, it is against my ethical, and economic principles to pay more than sticker or even sticker for a vehhicle. I am a patient man and if I need to wait until this fall, so be it.
Quite frankly my experience the other night at Don White's has me seriously cheesed off at Jeep. I have never, ever been given such unfriendly and unwelcoming treatment anywhere.
Sure the Liberty is the newest toy on the block and looks great, but don't treat me like crap because I don't look the part. Heck when I said the words "cross-shopping" the guy snorted and let out a breath as if to signify "whatever."
This has now brought the new CR-V back into the mix, as well as, the Land Rover Freelander. At a Honda or LR dealer I've never been treated poorly because I was wearing casual clothing.
Bob
Bob
http://www.fitzgeraldautomall.com/
Well, I don't know if I'd call folks "guinea pigs" per se.... Perhaps a bit too overzealous in their SUV pursuits maybe. If they want to be the first on their block to have this vehicle, then spectacular and bully for them. I want a vehicle that will last a long time, be reliable and capable of what I need. While that vehicle may turn out to be the Liberty, for the time being having the word "untested and unproven track record" is reason enough not to purchase.
And, I drove by Don White's last night and they have sold the loaded Pearl White demo Liberty already.
Steve
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Bob
Tinoman: I mean no respect, but my reservations have been stated time and time again. Go back to the first dozen or so posts on this board and you'll see I have been beating the same quality and reliability drum for months now. I wish you well, but I'll also include you in my prayers to the auto gods.
I was just having some fun with the guinea pig theme - I will gladly accept those prayers - at least I'll get V1.0 not a beta version.
there are tons of those who have more first hand experience with jeep than I do. so I fully understand them being cautious at first.
Bob
Thus, I believe this is why there is a parts shortage on the ABS, SIAB's, and moon roofs. The Liberty brochure says that 90% of parts arrive the day the vehicles are asembled.
In short, I like the overall fit and finish of the Liberty over the Escape/Tribute and I think the styling exterior/interior is far better in every respect (I own a design firm and I am paid to render opinions everyday). However, the Liberty does fall short of the mark in the area of "space". The interior and front seats are slighty narrow for a large person, the backseat is at the minimium (although sufficient for most), and the cargo area is just slightly better than that of a PT (even with the tire mounted outside). Again, its probably great for local travel, but if you plan to go out of town, or if your family exceeds three, you'll need to look at something larger.
As for price, $24.5K sticker (with most options and w/o leather) is asking alot given the fact that others in the same class are roomier and their windshields aren't in your face. In fact, the Isuzu Axiom (base) at about the same price appears to be a better choice if your not off roading.
-mike
I went to the jeep site, and ran through their process to build a Liberty, and the first thing it does is automatically add on "Option Package B" or something like that. What if I wanted the basic model with 4X4, and take it from there?
Bob
This is a five star dealer in INdiana and he has no problem sending you a liberty ready to go if you're ready to order and the prices are great. You might be able to use his price to bargain with at dealerships around your city or get one feom here. I've talked to him over te phone and seems to be pretty honest and up front(older gentelman). It might e easier to choose the a package there if you want also. Let me know if it doesn't work.
Matt
That quote he gave me was $20,339.00
Invoice was $20,275. I'm not sure what options you wanted, but you said base. I don't think you can get the off-road group with the 27A package if that's what you wanted, because it wasn't available to choose when I built it. Good Luck.
Matt
Bob
That quote he gave me was $20,339.00
Invoice was $20,275. I'm not sure what options you wanted, but you said base. I don't think you can get the off-road group with the 27A package if that's what you wanted, because it wasn't available to choose when I built it. Good Luck.
Matt
I wanted to build the one that somebody said you can get for something like under $18,000 or $19,000.
First of all, it wouldn't let you proceed WITHOUT the B package. Forget any other options.
This is JEEP's site! You'd think they could do it right. Why not just give check boxes or something and grey them out if not available?
Bob