By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
And MaltBarley - yes! I still consider Yoko's a fringe brand compared to the mainstream (BFG, Dunlop, the_two_(kidney)_stones, Michelin, Goodyear). I don't know of any manufacturers that put OEM Yokos on their cars, although I guess someone does. Probably the Yoko Geolander's on some SUVs?
he he, no ! To be honnest it was long ago. I was rather overwelming being the first time in the research of a big industrial company and was unable to learn a whole lot. I would like to visit them again now.
Bruno
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
Michelin (All seasons)
Yokohama (All seasons)
Nokian (Snow tires)
Kumho (summer)
Dinu
And how many pounds of pressure do you keep in them, since that's a relevant factor in your assessment?
Otherfolks, if you've switched from the Dunlops, I ask you the same questions...
Great all-season tires. Compound got hard in the fifth year though; starting squealing really badly even when I cornered easily, so I had to replace them, even though there was still lots of tread left.
The Generals I replaced them with were garbage. I got Michelin X-Metrics and now Michelin X-Ones.
I was looking for rain/snow capable semi-high-performance low profile tires. At the end - the only brands that had models in the running were Falken, Kumho (reports of noise developing very early, great performance in dry/wet, ok in snow) and Sumitomos (no negatives either). I picked Falkens, bought from tires.dom (Discount tire direct). Have 6K miles including road trips, heavy rain and a whole bunch of snow storms, and I've been VERY impressed so far. They aren't snow tires, but the level of performance matches or exceeds my NARROWER, HIGHER PROFILE Michelins. Wet and dry traction are lightyears better. I haven't really otten them to squeal yet (except moentary chirp on some turns!) and I've drifted a tiny bit more than a few times already. Very progressive loss of traction at their limit (which isn't Z-rated high, but still pretty impressive). No visible treadwear yet.
Another Pro owner (Hank - 99 or 00 ES) just bought the same ones (Falken ZIEX ZE-512) and will probably soon chime in with his own initial impressions. Feel free to ask us any questions you have about the tires performance.
Mazda 3 er i rute
Das ist der neue Mazda3
The head light looks very similar to the Mazda6.
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
Our plan is to put an offer together specifying what she wants and fax it to a bunch of dealers in the area. Worked great for me when I got my new sedan recently.
TIA...
One important note (in case you weren't aware), Edmunds' TMV price does not take into account current Manufacturer-to-Consumer rebates. In other word, you'll want to subtract any current consumer cash rebates from the TMV price (or invoice) to get your best price. Read more about how TMV is calculated here.
Others here may have more to add. Good luck, and please keep us posted on your purchase. ;-)
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
http://www.mazdarevitup.com/home.asp
Looks like a great event... Is this the first time Mazda is organising this? Would be nice if they had a Mazda owner discount
1. What I "want" to pay is the lowest possible price over invoice.
2. I can do the entire negotiation process from my computer.
3. There isn't necessarily much or any "back and forth."
I used the same method when I purchased my BMW; faxed my offer and got a counter offer within an hour that was only about $400 over my offer and it was even lower than I thought I would be able to get. Oh, I had to do my research beforehand, but the actual process of getting the deal was easy and quick.
Dinu
By doing your research you should know what a fair offer is before you even send the first email. If the dealer doesn't accept, go elsewhere. Piece of cake.
... The 2.0L is one of the most refined in its class, competently doing its job and revving without complaint. Highway speeds are attained easily and passing performance is decent. ...
Too many complains about the engine that I, on the other hand, actually find pretty decent.
Bruno
I really can't complain. Unfortunately, with a 4cyl you can't always get the best of city AND hwy driving...
Dinu
I understand, but perhaps you might find my story interesting.
Last year, at just about this same time, we went car shopping. We stopped at a Mazda dealer to test the Protege5 after my research suggested it might please us. The car was great and we liked it immensely, especially given what it offered for the price.
We sat down at the salesman’s desk to discuss price following the test drive. I had worked out what would be a fair and reasonable deal for both parties, as well as our upper limit before we would walk and shop the price elsewhere.
For whatever reason, I didn’t speak first. Thank goodness! (My guardian angel was awake and attentive that Saturday afternoon.)
The salesman proceeded to lay out the special deals currently in effect, including a special local extra discount subsidized by Mazda for the local auto show that was just ending that weekend. (I’d known about the national/regional discount, thanks to Edmunds.) The dealer had far too many P5s in stock, having ordered more than they’d expected to actually receive the previous fall.
Bottom line? They offered us a deal that had us shaking our heads in stunned disbelief. “Now . . . what was that again? How much?!” We about fell clean off our perches!
We bought a new, nine-miles-old (i.e. not a demo) 2002 Mazda Protege5 for well _below_ invoice. That’s below dealer “invoice,” not MSRP. [Let me go see just what that deal was . . . be right back.] We paid $15,055 for a new P5 that had an MSRP of $17515. These figures are for the car alone, without tax, title, and license fees, which, by the way, are set by the State, here. (There are no weird “document fees” here in Wisconsin.)
We had no idea such a deal was possible. Almost bought two of them. (Got a 2002 Honda Civic Si for the other one --- another fun car.)
What if I had made _my_ offer first, before the salesman spoke? I still cringe at how close I came to doing just that!
Lesson learned: Always let the other guy speak first; you never know his position and what he might offer.
Shopping from the comfort of home via email has its advantages, but it may deprive you of gleaning useful information, such as the fact that a particular dealer has row upon row of the car you’re looking for. (If the dealer has his inventory on the web, it would be wise to check it.)
As much as the dealers want to get the buyer into the showroom to lean on them, and as much as buyers may dislike being there, it is to the buyer’s _advantage_ to be there on the premises. You cannot buy a car by phone. If you’re actually there, the pressure is now on the dealer --- not just you --- to sell you a car before you walk.
The dealership is more amenable to being pressured when you are there, checkbook in hand.
Unless they’re the only local dealership with the only car you want (it’s probably a poor strategy to let them know that), the pressure works both ways. They _really_ don’t want you to walk; they know the odds are against ever seeing you again.
Now, if you’re a rear-engined Porsche 911 enthusiast, and they’re the only dealer within 500 miles, well . . . they’ve gotcha. But apart from unique cars like that, the dealer knows you may buy any number of other cars out there from another dealer.
Perhaps you might solicit _dealer offers_ for the car of your choice, rather than make your offer first. Yes, it adds a step and very likely increases the annoyance factor (some will send you MSRP figures, as our sole local Acura dealer did “for” us), but . . . you never know your luck. Right? ;-)
Let us know what happens, won’t you?
To Protege5 shoppers - For more on this subject, check out these Buying Articles from Edmunds' Tips & Advice Section. Lots of good advice here for all kind of buying situations. Happy shopping! ;-)
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
"To kauai215 - Good points! Thanks for sharing your experiences and lessons learned. ;-)"
My pleasure.
And thank _you_ for your graciousness. The older I get, the more I appreciate good manners. :-)
I also appreciate your efforts in running these interesting and instructive discussion groups.
Since July 01 I have put 33K miles on it and I an VERY satisfied with the pure fun to drive aspect of this car. I am still impressed that after 19 mths I still love this car like the day when I bought it.
I like HBs too, but the P5 was $2K more than the ES and didn't do anything more for me in terms of the ride.
The AT is sufficient in traffic and has plenty of power for cruising at 85mph. Mine has been at 100mph a few times and the "record" is 102mph - it still felt like it had plenty more to give.
I regularly drive it at 80+ a few times/week, but I also maintain it religiously (I do maintenance items not required in the manual or do them before they're due).
Go by the Protege Sedans board too - there's more traffic there.
I don't think you'll find many complaints from people (except that the tires for some people are not adequate - I would advise of keeping the Dunlops as summer-only and getting 4 snow tires if you live in the snow belt).
Dinu
PS: The handling of this car is what won me over. There are faster cars in this class and there are less noisy cars, but no other has that fun to drive aspect you are looking for AND reliability (although I hear the Focus is improving -I love the ZX5!).
Dinu
The problem is soft motor mounts. I assume you are driving a standard. The only fix is to replace at least the front motor mount with a stiffer one, like a urethane motor mount.
I did this one mine and it greatly reduced the driveline backlash. The downside is you get a bit of vibration at idle.
The dealer called it 'valve tracking' problems, and needed reprogramming. I am still waiting for them to get the program to do this from Mazda Canada.
Could this be the same thing that people are referring to as 'valve delay'? Even on 2003's? Should I quote the TSB? If so, can someone repost the link--I can't find the posting.
Thanks everyone for the great info on this site!
Link again: http://web2.airmail.net/emann/protegefaq/tsb/
APPLICABLE MODEL(S)/VINS
2001-2003 Protege (2.0L FS only)
2002-2003 Protege5
DESCRIPTION
Some customers may experience an engine rattle noise under light to moderate acceleration with engine coolant temperatures below 65 C (149 F) and engine RPMs between 1000 and 2900 RPM.
The noise is the result of the intentional swirl effect that is generated when the Variable Tumble Control System (VTCS) plates in the intake manifold are closed. Swirl accelerates the burn of the air/fuel mixture which reduces emissions when the engine is cold. The noise does not have a negative effect on the engine, and disappears as soon as coolant temperature reaches 65 C (149 F). There is a counter-measure to help reduce the noise in order to improve customer satisfaction.
Customers having this concern should have their vehicle repaired using one of the following procedures:
REPAIR PROCEDURE
1. Verify customer concern.
2. Check vehicle VIN range:
+ From VIN JM1BJ2***1*400001 to JM1BJ2***2*551281, go to step 3.
+ From VIN JM1BJ2***2*551282 to JM1BJ2***3*644493, go to step 4.
3. Replace the VTCS delay valve, then proceed to step 4.
4. Reprogram the PCM using WDS (Version B22 or later), verify the correct calibration from the table below:
Year/Tranmssion File NameNew Calibration P/N
2001 MTX DXAGBT0 1L2U-AA
2001 ATX DXAGAS0 1L2U-BA
2002 MTX QKMABB0 2ALU-EA
2002 MTX QKMABB0 2ALU-EA
2002 ATX QKAABA0 2ALU-FA
2002 ATX QKAABA0 2ALU-FA
2002 ATX QKBA7A0 2ALU-GA
2003 MTX QOAMCB0 3ALU-JB
2003 ATX QOAADA0 3ALU-KB
2003 ATX QOAB8C0 3ALU-LB
5. Install revised PCM calibration sticker (9999-95-AMDC 97 available through MStore) in appropriate position (next to vehicle emissions label) with the calibration P/N provided in the table above.
6. Verify repair.
PART(S) INFORMATION
Part Number Description
Qty. Notes
Application:
All 2001 Model Year N23613980A Delay Valve1 &
2002 model year built on and before November 5, 2001
WARRANTY INFORMATION NOTE: This information applies to verified customer complaints on vehicles covered under normal warranty. Refer to the SRT microfiche for warranty term information.
Delay Valve Replacement and PCM Reprogram
Warranty Type A
Symptom Code 82
Damage Code 9W
Part Number Main Cause N236 13 980A
Quantity 1
Operation Number / Labor Hours: XX444XR1 / 0.8
PCM Reprogram
Warranty Type A
Symptom Code 82
Damage Code 9W
Part Number Main Cause ****18881
Quantity 0
Operation Number / Labor Hours: XX444XR2 / 0.8
The old Dunlop SP 5000M worn out bad (just 26k miles), especially in the central band.
Bruno
Jess
Here are all of the emails:
Dear ****,
We received your prior e-mail, and responded to you on February 25th. Please understand that recalls are determined by the government, not by
individual car manufacturers. In addition, all TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins) are provided to all Mazda dealership. TSB's are not a recall; they contain instructions how to correct a concern, should a vehicle happen to experience it. The response to your prior e-mail is below:
From: AInman
To: ******
Date: 2/25/2003 7:15:44 AM
Subject: Re: 2002 Protege5 Transmission problem
Dear ****,
Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you. In regards to your e-mail, please understand that you have been
correctly advised by your Mazda dealership. The noise you are experiencing with your Protegé5 is a normal operating characteristic, not a defect. As such, no repairs, or parts replacements, will be performed.
Rest assured that customer feedback is vital to Mazda. I will definitely document your comments for the corporate record, which is continuously reviewed in an effort to provide only the highest quality products to our customers.
Again, thank you for contacting Mazda. It has been my pleasure to assist you. If for any reason this response has not completely
satisfied you, please feel free to reply to this message. You may also contact our Customer Assistance Center toll-free at 1-800-222-5500.
Please take a moment of your time to give us your opinion about our e-mail service. Click the link below to complete a brief, online survey.
Sincerely,
Ashley Inman
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business
Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Dear Mazda, USA:
I sent this email two weeks ago but have not received anything other than an automated confirmation of receipt. I would very much like to know that this issue is either being addressed, or has at least been taken to heart by Mazda, USA. Please don't leave a proud Mazda owner in the dark. So far, I have the utmost respect for Mazda, USA and would not like for that opinion to change. I would like to add to my forwarded email, that the purpose of these messages is to request that Mazda come up with a mechanical solution to this problem in the way of a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB), or a recall. I would like the part in my transmission to be replaced under warranty so that the described problem no longer occurs and does not return. Thank you for your time. To Whom It May Concern:
My Wife and I are nearly content owners of a 2002 Mazda Protege5. We purchased the car with the sport AT transmission, and are one of the many owners out there who have the dreaded transmission whine problem detailed in the "0002993 Dealer Repair Information" text: "Some customers may hear a high frequency whine that occurs at approximately 45 and 75 mph, this noise usually can only be heard with the radio and blower motor off and when the customer feathers the throttle within a very narrow RPM and MPH range. This whine is considered normal and no repairs should be attempted. This whine is not the result of any abnormal wear occurring within the transmission but is a result of a resonance that is generated at varying levels between the primary and secondary gears and does not affect the use, safety or value of the vehicle." I find this situation unacceptable. While the whine does not necessarily result in damage, it is NOT a "feature" that I purchased when the car was new, nor did I expect the car to perform this way. In my humble opinion, saying that the problem is not damaging and therefore should be lived with is a flagrant example of avoidance. I am considering purchasing a new Mazda6s for myself but this situation is making me reconsider... I expect a problem of this sort to be addressed regardless of whether damage may ensue as a result. This is not acceptable performance, and it is a result of poor workmanship. That is precisely what new car warranties legally cover. Regards,
*********
I'm left with a sour taste in my mouth after this email. I'm quite surprised and disappointed in the response. I realized that it was unlikely that mazda would do anything about the problem immediately, but I was not expecting to be shot down and effectively have my points ignored completely. The only semi-positive response was when the statement was made that the message will be "passed on" to headquarters, which may or may not account to a nothing.
Comments?
-Alt
Dinu
-Alt
I thought I could see better at night when driving my wife's P5 than in my Protege (99), even w/o the fog lamps.
Also, in Canada, the PRO and P5 have different packages, and while attempting to built a US PRO ES, I ended-up having to buy more options than I liked. In Canada they have a GT package - moonroof, A/C, spoiler, to add to the already standard 16" alloys, ABS, etc...
Seems we're getting more car for the $ than you guys are. But then again, Canadian sales come from the PRO, not from the 6 - small cars sell more here than in the US; they are the dominant sector.
Dinu
Frankly, I can't tell if they are totally unfair with you because I don't know how bad is the noise in your car transmission. Is that really annoying? And does it just appear only recently?
Bruno
The other reason I am disappointed is because the whine really is not a described "feature" of the car. It was not present during test-drive, and I was never told to expect it. I wouldn't call it a "normal operating automotive sound" by any means. It crept up around 1000 miles- occurring only at 80 MPH and above, and just got louder. It reached maximum volume around 1500 miles and now occurs at all rev ranges, and hasn't gone away since. Again, I would NOT call this a normal sound, and I am a car nerd. I work on cars, and I understand what basic conept is driving this sound (bad soecification in the machining process on two drive gears- that's what my service manager told me). If the cause is in fact what he described, I don't see how the problem couldn't be considered a TSB issue. Bottom line is, Mazda sees this a potential center for large losses (why spend $500 in labor replacing a $50 part?), and they are using semantics to avoid the issue. I'm not happy with that.
-Alt
But I don't get it: if the service manager told you that "the bad specification in the machining process" is the cause, that means that he did admit that your car has a manufacturing flaw and it should be repaired then under warranty. Right?
Bruno
The argument I have with mazda (and I may be wrong), is that I don't think warranties just cover sources of potential damage... don't they cover "defects in workmanship" which may or may not result in damage? It was my understanding that damage is not necessary in the definition of "defect."
But that's just me... thoughts?
-Alt
Also, be sure to contact the federal government here:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
You just have to get the right people's attention. Good luck.
Bruno
Bruno