Pontiac GTO

sputterguy

Personally I don't care for the hood scoops and since I have an '04 it is irrelevant. However, don't call them useless since anything that helps get rid of waste heat or brings in cooler air is good for the engine.

kentmoon

Thank you all for info on lease deal.

I've decide to hold off the purchase for a few weeks. I am waiting to see if our Governator will sign a law authorizing hybrid to drive on CA carpool lane. I have 50 mile one-way communte, so if it passes, I am buying Civic Hybrid for now. If the law doesn't pass, I will buy GTO.

herzdawg007

I am interested in a Pontiac GTO. Some of my friends do not like coupes because they doubt the safety of the rear passengers in an accident(exiting the vehicle). At first, I didn't believe this, but it has gotten me thinking...
If you agree/disagree please post your thoughts. Thank you.

desertrat5

Just returned from my dealer. Had my Bonneville in for routine servicing. While I was there I asked my salesman how the '04 GTOs were selling. He said they have gone flat. Everyone who is in the know and is planning on buying one is waiting for the 2005 with the bigger engine, the hood scoops, and the revised exhaust system. He said with rebates he could sell one at $3500 below invoice.

hammen2

...sales are picking up (nearly 1000 last month, up from the 600s and 700s in June/July). Problem is, there are nearly 4000 unsold, with the '05s due in December. Incentives are going up - many dealers are selling the car at GMS pricing, even if you're not a GM employee eligible purchaser (how they're doing this, I don't know). Throw in the $3500 GMAC financing rebate, the low (0.9/36, 1.9/48 and 2.9/60) financing (which you get along with the rebate), and an additional $1k of GMS rebate (if you're eligible), and you have one heck of a deal.

There are lots of folks who were holding off for an '05 who have decided to jump. The '05s were likely to be priced a little higher, and probably won't have much incentives or low finance offers. Factor in the $7-$10k less you'll pay for an '04 than an '05, and the fact that there 's a huge LS1 aftermarket (LS2 starts anew), you can get a hood and up the performance of your LS1, and still be $5k less than an '05 and with the lower finance rates, be way ahead. Plus you'll have the car now, versus December/January at the earliest.

--Robert

hammen2

I don't feel the GTO is less safe than a comparably-sized sedan. If you sit in one, you'll realize how substantial the car is (at 3700+ lbs, this is no joke). Plus, the back seat is pretty decent as far as size and comfort (just a pain in the you-know-what getting in or out). As long as rear passengers were belted in, I think they'd do fine in a crash. Somewhere on the net there's a picture of a silver Monaro that some 16 year old car thief wrapped around a tree - the driver purportedly survived. Might want to Google for that (possibly wreckedexotics.com?)

Now, if you're talking about an older Eclipse/Talon kind of coupe, I'd agree with your friends...

--Robert

riez

A safety concern with the GTO is the lack of both side airbags for front occupants and side curtain airbags for front and rear occupants. Thus there is no side airbag protection for chest or head of occupants.

The GTO merely has two front airbags.

bigdaddycoats

Saw an ad in the paper today - 24/24, 279 due at signing, $279 per month + tax. So, I called. Works out to $318 per month - heck of a deal if you ask me. Going to call the insurance agent tomorrow and see how much it will raise my rates. So very tempting.

chinamonty

Cooling a vehicle by air primarily comes from desing of the undeneath of the vehicle "sucking" air out and the replacement air coming through the front air intake. If you look at the HSV website you will notice that the Commodore racing vehicles (which are fairly close to Monaro/GTO in frontal design (and are much superior in the engine department )do not have a need for "hood vents" so why would a road car. They are quite simply cosmetic unless you have forced induction (ie a supercharger).

midwesttrader

Sales are picking up because dealers have been forced to basically make it a loss leader to clear inventory. On a 6 speed there's about $1400 between invoice price and actual dealer cost they can play with plus the GMAC rebate and the 1K in "secret" dealer certificates. That's how they can offer a GMS price to anyone and still make some money. I agree it's a deal.

I disagree with you on the '05. With a niche car like this I think the same type of deal will be available next year at this time (or sooner).

Just curious, you say "nearly 4000 unsold." With 5551 sold through August, are you saying they made less than 10K total for '04?

montanafan

The holdback is 3% or $974.70, so there isn't "$1,400" to play with. "GMS" is invoice less holdback. The GMAC bonus goes to the customer not the dealer. There are no "secrect" $1000 dealer certificates. If a dealer advertises "GMS" to anyone, the great deal is for the customer with nothing to be made by the dealer but moving the car off the lot.

I believe you are confusing the $500 Instant Value Certificates that some dealer have limited amounts of to offer on most everything they sell that goes to the customer, as a "secret" dealer certificate that would allow the dealer to make so money.

midwesttrader

I'm looking at a 6 speed invoice right now. I see a total in the INV AMT column that says 31070.33 (including destination and the bogus advertising fee). Below that in the same column it says: Total Less Holdback and Approx Wholesale Finance Credit 29618.70.

31070.33 - 29618.70 = 1451.63

I understand the incentive for GMAC financing goes directly to the qualifying customer.

I understand there are $500 customer certificates. I understand there is a limit of $1000 applied for the benefit of the customer on any one deal. Many dealers have not been exactly forthcoming about their existence when asked.

I also understand that dealers like to play around with all these factors to arrive at and advertise a "GMS" price for anyone that walks in the door without doing a real GMS transaction with GM.

Explain how I'm wrong on any of this.

montanafan

The first post implied that at ""GMS" to everyone", the dealer was making money. It also implied they did this by taking some of the customer rebate or bonus money. I only tried to point out that that was incorrect. At a ""GMS" price to everyone" the dealer is moving the car, the buyer was getting the deal.

hammen2

"I disagree with you on the 05. With a niche car like this I think the same type of deal will be available next year at this time (or sooner)."

I think that most dealers are realizing that they can't ask for ADM on the GTO. Most will probably offer GMS pricing on the '05's from when they start selling, but GM probably won't have incentives and low finance rates on them initially. If they continue to build up inventories of cars early next year, maybe they'll add them. Who knows, the economy could be in the toilet again by then, so ???

I'm not disagreeing with your contention, I just don't think there will be deals comparable to the current ones for the first 3-6 months of '05 sales.

If you want a GTO at a great price, and can swing it, there's no better time to buy than now.

--Robert

sputterguy

Ok, I'll buy that. I myself have refered to the hood scoops as non-funtional. Since the air intake is located in the right front of the engine compartment there is no way any of that fresh air will get anywhere close to it. And no one ever said they were needed. It's only that some people like and want them. I'm not one of them. I prefer the stealth look without them. However,once agian, anything that helps vent waste heat and brings in cooler air to the engine compartment is a good thing.

vinnyny

If you're looking for great deals on the GTO, chekc with Phoenix dealers. I got quotes for less than $27k on 6 speed cars (plus 2.9% for 60 months). Throw in a supercharger for $5k and who needs an '05?

gshumway1

I've decided to take the plunge. After several weeks of talking with three area dealers I can pick up a Barbados Blue six spd for 27548.00 plus TTL next week when it arrives from transport.

Those "customer"certificates are news to me. I think I will ask about that Monday?

andy

sounds like a great deal. The pricing is making this car very attractive. Sure more HP for 2005 is nice, but is really overkill, and the price will probably go back to sticker (which will also increase to about 35k).

gmhellman

I was at my Pontiac Dealer this week and he informed me that the 05 will definitley by made with functioning hood vents and 400hp. He said that it is pretty stupid that they put this model out. They should have waited a year. I asked him why and he said that GM wanted to get back into the "true sports car market". I would wait until next year to get the bump in hp.

hammen2

With dealers now selling '04's for around $25k (assuming you have good enough credit to get GMAC's financing rebates), and, with the MSRP of the '05's going to be closer to $35k, why wait? If you want more HP and hood scoops, $10k buys a lot of mods. Plus, you get to drive the car now, as opposed to January (earliest the '05's will show up on these shores - Holden is having labor issues in Australia, apparently).

bigdaddycoats

So, I could not resist. Picked up a new silver 6-spd GTO yesterday. I leased it for 24/24 with nothing down, GMS pricing for $279 per month. I can not think of a better deal out there.
With only 79 miles on it after one day all I can say is this car is awesome! Fit and finish is excellent, materials are top notch, the shifter is so smooth and it is sooo fast. I could not be happier. I am not old enough to remember the original GTO so the styling is fine with me. Sure it is a little bland but maybe that will deter the police from noticing me. And sure the 05 with the LS2 will be a little faster, but no way will a deal like this be around for a while.
I'll write more later - so far awesome.

rayainsw

Congrats!
Do please post impressions, once you have 'enjoyed' a few more miles.

And - my $0.02 worth of advice: Don't count on the police not noticing you . . .

Cheers,
- Ray
Old enough to have lusted after the original GTO - and finding the current one interesting as well . . .

1badgto

I got my Automatic GTO about 3 weeks ago and have
been enjoying it ever since. I have about 700 miles on it so far. I got the Auto because my size 13 foot would not fit between the clutch and
the wall after I shifted, so I opted for the Automatic. First automatic that I have had in 15
years. Couldn't resist it. After all was said and done, I bought mine for $27,500. I thought it was a great deal! I would think that finding one for
$25,000 would be hard to believe. But if someone
does, I would definately recommend buying it.
I love the power and the sound of the exhaust. It
is absolutely intoxicating. I was surprised to find out that the Blaupunckt radio really sucks.
I turned off all the automatic control stuff on it
and that seemed to improve it but I think they should throw something better in there next time
or at least add another 100 or 200 watts to it.
I have a problem with a compression/decompression
noise coming out of the dash when I apply the brakes. Took it to the dealer and he said that all the GTO's do the same thing. He said he called
GM and they said that sound is normal for a GTO.
Does anybody else have the same sound? Please let
me know. Maybe the brake upgrade next year will fix this problem. The brakes do feel pretty soft for such a big and powerful car.

bigdaddycoats

Yeah, so far I am not impressed with the radio - got to play with it some more. But, I would rather listen to the exhaust note anyway.

1badgto

Yes. That is my problem. I love listening to the rumble so much, that I often drive around with the stereo off. But then, I hear this high pitched compression/decompression noise coming from the dash in the general vacinity of the master cylinder on the other side of the firewall when I apply and release the brake pedal. Anyone else out ther have the same noise?
Again, the dealer claims that all GTO's make this same sound. I have resorted to playing the stereo to cover the noise. Then i can't hear my pipes.

sphinx99

Wow, 24/24, no down for $280/month? You've got me tempted. I need a "winter beater / daily driver" lease and that's a much better deal than I could get on the Acura TSX that has been in 1st place for the job. What's a GTO like in winter? Does it come with stability control? What are the stock tires like? Are they servicable for snow?

bigdaddycoats

That price was with GMS pricing. My father is a retired GM employee.

zacsdad

If you don't mind me asking,what part of the country do you live in. So far no one in Alabama will come close to that lease price. TIA

bigdaddycoats

Detroit. According to the info I have, you have the same incentives that we do here. Total of $4500. Like I said, I do get the GMS price though my father. Last night on TV they were running ads during the music awards for a 24/24 for $224 per month with $1669 due at signing. I chose to have 0 dn and did not have to have a security deposit because I lease my wifes car with GMAC. Heck, maybe you should hop on a plane and get one up here.

bigdaddycoats

I have noticed a similar noise, to me it seems to fluctuate with the rpms. Does not bother me though. I'm too busy having fun.

1badgto

Where does the $4500 figure come from? I only see
$3500 in incentives listed.

1badgto

The GTO is rear wheel drive. It does have traction
control. GTO's have performance BF Goodrich tires which are rated VERY poor for driving in snow. The car manual recommends getting
radial tires for winter driving, which I am certainly going to do. Obviously, a REAR wheel
drive vehicle with high performance tires will
handle like cr#p in the winter.

bigdaddycoats

$3500 was from GMAC, $1000 was bonus cash related to using the employee pricing.

exzur

Here in the Buffalo area, I am seeing new GTOs with yellow price tag of $27,495. Compare to the window sticker MSRP, it's almost six grand off.

Yet, dealers can't move the car.

I am speculating the price will go down to $25,000 in the next several weeks. At what price point, GM will start loosing money on this car? Or are they already?

I don't see no difference with the 2005's as far as selling the car is concern.

STOP LOSS, GM. KILL the GTO.

1badgto

The GTO is a niche car. Always has been, always will be. Most people aren't cool enough to pull off driving this car with the speed, power and reputation it offers. I hope GM does kill it. It will make my black GTO with black interior that much more valuable in the future. But I seriouisly doubt that will happen. Not many people buy Corvettes, but they still make those pieces of junk!

andys120

I'm sure you meant to say the manual recommends radial snow tires. It should specify that the M+S designation which is on many all-season tires is not enough. The winter tires should be rated for severe weather use which is indicated by a graphic of snow on a mountain peak on the sidewall.

1badgto

That is what I meant by "radial tires for Winter driving" but I guess radial snow tires is more accurate and I see that is the exact quote in the manual. The point is.. the guy wanted to know if the tires were good for the Winter and they are not. I am sure we can both agree on that.

andys120

Oh definitely, I just wanted to get across the point that all-season M+S rated tires likely won't cut it. </:^)

Back in the day we used to consider radial summer tires sufficient for rwd drive cars in winter-- they were but only if the snow wasn't deep and the car had a roughly 50/50 F-R balance.

midwesttrader

Some folks might consider the vette a niche car too but Chevy still managed to sell over 35K of them in '03 and '04 sales have been decent even with the model change.

Vette sales dwarf what the '04 GTO has sold even at it's significantly higher price. Junk or not it's a popular choice.

rnr223

Like yourself other are claiming this deal. After reading your posting I went down to my local dealership and was surprised that his numbers weren't even close. When you say nothing down did you have to pay the tax upfront? He wanted $1100 plus tax totaling about $4k out of pocket and then $300 a month for 48 months. I live in NY but wouldn't mind doing business with a out of state dealer if necessary. Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciate.

rnr223

would you happen to have the paper and the date my dealer is killing me.

vinnyny

"Corvette...junk"? The Vette is quicker & faster than virtually anything costing up to twice its price. It stops shorter, handles better and wins races on Sundays. Yet, you can drive it to work each day and get the oil changed at Jiffy Lube. Junk? I don't think so.

Meanwhile, you're touting a gussied up 2-door Catera sporting the old Corvette engine. What a joke.

I like the GTO, but a GTO fan disparaging the Corvette is like Rosanne Barr's fan club criticizing Sandra Bullock for having big feet.

bigdaddycoats

go here

http://www.lafontainegmc.com/

look under the internet specials.

bigdaddycoats

I do not think you can do a lease in NY. Didn't most car makers stop doing leases in NY because they were liable in accidents? In the Detroit area most dealers are running ads with deals like mine. On TV there have been commercials the last couple of day that state $1669 due at signing (includes security dep, 1rst month...) $224 per month for 24 months - GMS pricing.

bmw4me2

On TV last night I saw a commercial from Pontiac advertising an '04 GTO for $299 per month, $2,000 down for 36 months. This is in the Tampa, Florida area. The commercial didn't give the MSRP. I hope this helps.

fastcardriver

Exzur, people with attitudes like yours are the reason the US performance auto industry is non-existent. Before this year, buyers wanting high performance US manufactured autos were forced into the small pony car market, eg. Corvette, Mustang Cobra, etc. There was no option when it came to a viable four seater (yes, I know the Mustang can seat four, but the backseat was not truly designed for use by normal sized adults). So, most buyers were looking at the German and Japanese manufactured vehicles (BMW 3 series, Infiniti G35, etc.) So we should all continue to bash the US manufacturers when they attempt to produce high quality, high performance vehicles. That way we can continue to purchase over priced POS FWD vehicles. Maybe the 04 GTO could be improved, but just because you are bitter don't ruin it for the rest of us.

I for one commend GMs efforts for trying to bring high quality and high performance back to the US.

exzur

I still think and believe, the reason for the GTO flop is the looks of the car. Replace the cavalier look alike body with a shell in the mold of a sporty racing looking design, like the elise, firebird, corvette, or the likes. Price it ten grand lower than than the vette, I think this GTO project will fly.

Problem with GM is they insist of putting the 2005 Corvete powetrain into a Cavalier look alike body.

I don't see why the 2005 GTO is any different as far as selling the car is concern. If you like the 2005 GTO, just be patient, time your purchase very well, most likely you can own it for 25 grand, more or less. With the looks of the GTO at 25k, bargain hunter will go for it.

I've said this once, I'll say this again,

 "Who would pay thirty five grand for a Cavalier on steroids?"

mikesan

For years Pontiac made cars that were all flash (and cladding) and put 6 cyls in them. Now they tone down (thank you very much) the look and put a real high performance motor that is infinitely modifiable. That's why I bought mine. For just a hair over $27K plus TTL. It looks a lot more like a Volvo C70 than a Cavalier if you ask me. The changes for 05 are terrific. You can have hood scoops or not. Split Dual Exhaust, LS2 engine with 400 HP and 395 Torque right off the showroom floor. Two real back seats, and an interior that rivals some of the German cars. If it is available for under $30K, it will sell well. If Pontiac dealers continue to be dorks and mark it up 3-10K over MSRP, it will sit. That will be too bad, as I would like to see the resurgence of the American Muscle Car.

sputterguy

Also, if he wants the tax upfront he is scamming you. You pay the tax as you go. And you haven't paid any tax on the residual at the end of the lease. I only put $800 down and that was before the big discounts came out. You can do better than that.

nb2169

Mikesan:
        I, too, would like to see the resurgence of the American Muscle Car. However, I differ with you because the present GTO is only a rebadged Holden Monaro, not good old Detroit iron. The GTO's of yesteryear are icons of the mid 60's and early 70's muscle car era in America. The present GTO is a fine example of European design. It should be named anything but GTO. IMHO, the GTO should be an American designed and manufactured vehicle. That would truelly be a step towards re-creating the American Muscle Car.