Pontiac GTO

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, I think we are about done with the Cavalier analogy. I'd like to move away from that as the point has been made repeatedly, in posts 1713, 1716, 1721, 1734, 1742.

Any further posts on that point will regrettably be removed in the interests of keeping the peace on the board.

Let's move on...there's plenty still to talk about. Here's an Australian site talking about 2005. All these changes look good to me.

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/pontiac-gto-200- 5.htm

exalteddragon1

I can't belive lutz is on the line for this. You know he did make a good car, the GTO is excellent in EVERYTHING except exterrior style.

This is the kind of society we live in today, people wil except a margianlly worse interrior and less prformance for a cool exterrior, like ricers and such...

The GTO needs more aggressive styling, but for the conservative motorist i don't see how its so bad, the whole sleeper tihng is cool, especially if you get black on black and red two tone.

I'd wait for 2k5 when i can get the same thing with hodscoops, but i doub't these crazy 6-8 thousand dollar deals were ppl get a 33K gto for 25K will be available.

gb7

New owner, 6M Quicksilver, bought last September, 350 miles. I will reserve judgment until I get to 3-4k miles, but jeez, this car makes me smile when I feel the gentle rocking as the car idles at the traffic light....The car is just ready to rumble ( as they say in WWF) ;-)

I've been following the posts for a while, just wanted to say thanks to all for the helpful tips and aftermarket product leads. I checked the tire pressure after I read the post and sure enough, they were at 60 PSI alright. Didn't really know where to look for the red spacer clips and foam blocks but have not heard any funny noises. Sorry I'm not a real grease monkey, just like to drive....

I'd like to pose a question about the 1st - 4th gear feature. I used to drive a 5M Honda and I remember the mechanic saying 'Don't skip gears' as a way to somewhat prolong the life of the transmission. Does that have any truth in it or is it just an old-wives tale?? Is it just particular to Honda's high-redline engines?? I do hear the car and gears 'groaning' and I kind of have to grit my teeth....

gb7

Oh yes, I forgot to thank Mr. Lutz. Looks like he's my kind of car guy. Also bought the Sebring Limited Convertible while he was at Chrysler.

Mr_Shiftright

Not an old wives tale, no. "Lugging" an engine should be avoided if possible, and definitely avoided when the engine is cold.

Engine wear occurs much more at lugging than revving. That rattling and groaning you might hear is your internal engine parts rattling around and in extreme cases of pre-ignition, or "pinging", the cylinder walls actually flex.

Some say high torque engines can manage it, but you know, why push your luck?

rqc

I was really excited about the GTO when it was announced but ended up eliminating it because:
1. it lacked options like sunroof and other interior features
2. styling is boring
3. price

Although price has become less of a factor with the cuts to get them off the lots, I wasn't interested on compromising on points 1 & 2. What features it had, I liked. I just wanted more.

hammen2

1) Sunroof is available third-party from Webasto. This same unit Holden sells as an option on the Monaro. It's supposed to be very nice. I may go this route a couple of years down the line.

2) Styling - you don't see your car when you're sitting inside it. If you want to upgrade/update it, there are tons of different hoods and body kits from pfyc.com, rksport.com, mpd-inc.net, jhp.com.au and capa.com.au. I personally like the aero look, and the car is a bit "sleeper".

3) Price. At the 26k or so it's selling for now, plus the low 0.9/1.9/2.9 percent financing, it's the performance-car bargain of the year, if not the past 5 years. IMHO the interior competes with the new STS as the best GM offers - fit and finish is first rate. At this price you can afford to buy a few mods - some as simple as the K&N Filtercharger (gave an A4 owner I know 19 rwhp), and things like either LS1Edit, HPTuners, or a DiabloSport Predator to tune your car for better performace (again, really helps an A4).

Hope this helps,

--Robert

Mr_Shiftright

Is that Webasto a electric "slide-back" type of aftermarket roof or just a pop up?

hammen2

...or as Webasto calls it, an "inbuilt" sunroof. Pics here:

http://www.webastoshowroom.com/pontiac_gto_710.htm

Mr_Shiftright

That looks great! I was thinking of the type where the glass slides over the top of the roof, but this looks much more OEM.

herzdawg007

Does anyone know if the LS1 will still be available in the 05 GTO?
If not, I will probably get an 04 soon, as they are dropping in price. Thanks!

hammen2

The '05's will only come with the new 400-hp LS2 engine only. It's going to be a few months before aftermarket parts are available for it. If that's your concern, get an '04. You can do a ton of mods on an LS1 now and you'll still probably pay less for an '04 plus mods (Magnuson supercharger, anyone?) than you will for an '05, and you'll have more HP...

--Robert

rob999

That Webasto sunroof looks nice.

My local dealer used those aftermarket "slide over the top" sunroofs on quite a number of his GTO's. These were flatter and didn't even match the curved contour of the roof. Ugh - talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

midwesttrader

I just read elsewhere that the start of '05 production was delayed from 9/13 until 10/12/04. No reason was given. Don't hold your breath on those preorders!

Also saw that the 800 "W40" pulse red cars are starting to appear in the states, but without any 40th Anniversary markings. Apparently that part of the package was scrapped. Doesn't make them so special does it?

montanafan

Nothing I saw ever said that the package was a 40th Anniversay Package.

herzdawg007

At a local dealership, there is a 2004 GTO. It is black, with red interior. It is certified used and has 3,000 miles on it. It is priced at $26,000. This is the exact color/interior combination that I like and the price is amazing.
Do you think I should buy it?
Do you think that anything is wrong with it? (returning to the dealership after 3,000 miles...)
Thanks a million.

hammen2

...upon your credit, where you are, and if the GTO is a stick or an auto.

You should be able to buy a stick for around $30k. Auto, maybe $300 more. If you qualify, you can get a $3500 rebate AND 0.9/36, 1.9/48 or 2.9/60 financing through GMAC (FICO usually has to be above 700 to get the preferred rates). And if you have

Of course, this depends where you are. Most of the country, '04 GTO's are selling for invoice or less, just to get them out the door. I've heard this is less likely to be the case in Florida and California. I'd strongly suggest using GM BuyPower and sending quote requests out to a few dealers in your area - or, calling, asking to speak to the sales manager directly, or the fleet manager if the sales manager is unavailable, and mention your interest (that's a pretty comon color combo - not rare at all, unlike the Barbados Blue or my Cosmos Purple). I'd check out your credit score at something like MyFICO.com and get pre-approved by GMAC and/or a local credit union. Also depends if you will be trading in anything or not.

--Robert

herzdawg007

The car has a manual transmission. I am going to go look at it in the next few days. I will also probably check a couple other local dealerships. So, would there be anything wrong with getting this one?

ua01682

I purchased a new one Monday for $25690 (including the $4500 in rebates).

I suppose new may get better rates w/ GMAC if you decide to Smartlease or Smartbuy as well.

I wanted Black/Red REAL BAD. Dealers insistance on 2k more for that color combo means I ended up with YellowJacket and really like my choice more now.

hammen2

Will you be paying cash or financing? If financing, what kind of rate can you get (do your homework before going to the dealer)?

I wouldn't have any qualms about buying a lightly-used GTO if it inspects well (though you could try to push the price down $500-$1000), but I would compare the cost of a new car (with the incentives and low finance rates, if eligible) with this used one. It may not make any sense to go used... just my 2 cents.

--Robert

herzdawg007

I will be paying for the car up front with cash. Can I still get the 3,500 off? I live in Northwestern Missouri and most of the GTO's around here are still very close to MSRP. My goal is to get it at or below $30,000.
Thanks.

ua01682

My understanding the rebates are via GMAC. Why not finance and pay off straight away?

I bought mine in Houston so that might be an option to save $4500 as well... Good Luck on the GTO, she's awesome.

midwesttrader

now delayed until November in an effort to clear out the '04 cars. With about 8K sold so far I wonder how many are left? Pontiac is being very cagey about releasing a total production number.

herzdawg007 - why don't you run a used car value for the gto on this site and see what you get? I'd seriously consider using GM's money to get the discount on a brand new one and pay it off as you see fit. Even with certified used you never know.

montanafan - since you seem to know so much, why would they call it a "W40" option if it had no connection to the 40th anniversary?

hammen2

...is an RPO code. Not sure if it's the code for the red paint, or for the package with the silver gauges (probably the latter), but that's the pulse red car.

--Robert

hammen2

Wow, there's no reason for dealers there to still be sticking to MSRP. I'd really suggest calling a few dealers, and asking to speak with the sales manager or fleet manager, and trying to negotiate. You must make them aware that you know about the $3500 in GMAC bonus. You can finance a new vehicle for 36 months (I doubt you can get the GMAC finance bonus for the used car, unless it's never been titled) and then pay it off in 2.

I would try harder to find a new one like you want. Heck, it may even be worth it to use BuyPower to look at dealerships outside of your geographical area - Chicago/Detroit/Dallas/Houston-area dealers seem to be active online (i.e. eBay) in selling these cars at invoice less the GMAC rebate, or less, just to move them...

At least with a new car, YOU get to break it in, put on all the miles/know how it's been driven, et. al. If you have driven one you know it's an amazing car that hooks you - pretty soon all you think about is driving it :-)

Hope this helps,

--Robert

jbm

i've seen the '04 GTO (new) at $25-$26K after all incentives, that's before haggling. My suggestion is to buy a used '04 for even greater savings. With winter approaching, and with the '05s coming out, esp. against the $25,000 '05 Mustang GT, and the price slashing on the '04 GTOs, the lightly used '04's are bound to settle around the $21-$22k mark.

montanafan

W40 in the past has been used by GM for special production models, such as a H/O Oldsmobile. For anniversary models Z03 is a common code for Pontiac. It was used for the 30th Anniversary Grand Am in 2004 and the 40th Anniversary Grand Prix in 2003.

http://www.montecarloss.com/SSThunder/gmcodes.html
Lists option codes and shows a Z03 code.

http://tlentz.oldsgmail.com/guide.html for the W40 reference

jbm

i've seen the '04 GTO (new) at $25-$26K after all incentives, that's before haggling. My suggestion is to buy a used '04 for even greater savings. With winter approaching, and with the '05s coming out, esp. against the $25,000 '05 Mustang GT, and the price slashing on the '04 GTOs, the lightly used '04's are bound to settle around the $21-$22k mark.

exzur

Quote: “with the '05s coming out, esp. against the $25,000 '05 Mustang GT”

A year from now, I think or I foresee the ‘05 GTO with an msrp of $33,000 can be bargained for 25k. I expect the $25,000 asking price for the ’05 Mustang GT to stay firm due to its handsome body style.

I thought at first if I could get the ’05 GTO for $25k I would jump on it. But when I see
the pictures and write ups of the ’05 Mustang GT, I am having a second thought.

The Mustang engine is less powerful, 300 hp and 315 ft./lb torque, compare to the GTO’s 400 hp and 395 ft/lb torque. GTO has six gears as to the stang five. The GTO rides on 4 wheel independent suspension. The stang rear axle is solid and not independent. Among other things the GTO appears to be the superior car and the excellent choice for the same price. I also prefer the interior of the GTO.

Same price, I will ignore all of these GTO advantages and go for the Mustang, because of the stang’s much better look and well executed body style.

jbm

i've seen the '04 GTO (new) at $25-$26K after all incentives, that's before haggling. My suggestion is to buy a used '04 for even greater savings. With winter approaching, and with the '05s coming out, esp. against the $25,000 '05 Mustang GT, and the price slashing on the '04 GTOs, the lightly used '04's are bound to settle around the $21-$22k mark.

herzdawg007

I will be paying for the car up front with cash. Can I still get the 3,500 off? I live in Northwestern Missouri and most of the GTO's around here are still very close to MSRP. My goal is to get it at or below $30,000.
Thanks.

hammen2

Good. Then stop posting here and annoying those of us who do like the GTO.

hammen2

Nope, have to finance, though I believe you can pay it off after two payment with no repercussions. Don't know what the minimum amount you can finance is.

Again, as others have said: 26,500-27,000 is what dealers are selling these cars for, not 30k. Push them harder and you will get the deal you desire.

--Robert

hammen2

...per the JD Power "APEAL" survey:

http://money.cnn.com/2004/10/14/pf/autos/apeal/index.htm

bigdaddycoats

a red 05 GTO today. I was behind it so I could not see the hood scoops. It did have the split dual exhaust and I thought it looked really good - better than the 04.

Robert - Ever go to Gillies or Balestreris? Two of my favorite places to go.

mc364

After test driving the 04 GTO I couldn't help but remember the scene from the old Mel Gibson movie where he's going to chase the bad guys and needs the interceptor. The australian made car (Holden?) of choice was the "last of the V8 interceptors". I think I'd buy it just for that. You get great looks from high hp euro drivers in this thing, as if a Pontiac under $30k shouldn't be allowed in the same quarter mile time category. Big thumbs up.

gkarg

A coworker that has an '04 GTO had some engine trouble this past weekend, that I thought I'd give you GTO owners a heads-up on a potential problem.

The plastic molded tube that runs between the radiator and one of the rubber hoses (I don't know if it is upper or lower...) broke and allowed the coolant to all leak out of the engine. The low coolant light came on and he was able to safely stop the vehicle (despite being in a construction zone.)

Don't know if this is a freak accident or something wrong in a design of that piece. Just thought I'd pass on the info. Has anyone else had this happen?

coolhandluke

I like the improvements made for the 05 GTO but I haven't seen much given to the colors available. I like the barbados blue and cosmos purple but I've heard that those are being cut for the left over drab colors and yellow, that my local dealer and many others around my location can't get rid of. Are there any exciting colors being offered? 400 hp is nice but isn't worth it if the car looks bland. Any confirmation on colors and most importantly PRICE. I located a dealer semi-near with 2 purple ones and still looking for the barbados blue six speed. Any links or inside info would be appreciated. Thanks in advance

exzur

Quote: “400 hp is nice but isn't worth it if the car looks bland.”

You hit the nail right on the head.

ua01682

Regarding colors, there is a forum like ls1gto that has the 2005 brochure w/ color information.

Sounds like you are concerned about the 2005 LS2/400HP first, colors second, style third, then price? This is your priority?

The Pontiac GTO is a Holden Monaro CV8. Check out Holden's website for the 05 colors. They are of course named differently, I think they call the Jellow Jacket color Yellow Devil in Oz.

montanafan

Barbados Blue and Cosmos Purple and being replaced for 2005 with Midnight Blue (a dark blue metallic) and Cyclone Gray (appears a tad lighter then the Graystone Pontiac has now on cars like the Grand Prix). Each of the replaced colors were approx 4% of sales each, or approx half of yellow sales (9%).

clpurnell

As a fore warning this may get a little long. It has been 5 years since I owned my last GM Car. It was a '92 Lumina that I traded after the water pump went at 110k. Other than that and a brake fiasco I had it was a pretty decent car. My first car was a '79 Monte Carlo that I bought for 400 I really liked that one. Anyway after only owning American cars I now own two imports after a terrible experience with a 2001 Chrysler 300M.

However the past two years I have been invited and attended GM's Auto Show in Motion. Each time I have left with a positive taste for some cars I had previously written off. Last year it was the CTS. This year it was definately the GTO.

The Pontiac Course was next door to the Vette/SSR course. While waiting for the Vette I couldn't help but notice the powerful sound of the GTO's exhaust next to us. The Vette's exhaust note is very lack luster compared to the SSR and GTO.

This year's Vette is light years ahead of the C5. However I though the GTO was every bit as solid and powerful as the vette. It was a really impressive machine. I think they do need to seperate it from the rest of the pontiac family a little with a destinctive shape. But the performance is awesome . It is so good that I am really considering trading in my Infinity for it. This is one awesome car.

coolhandluke

No, I commented on some of the improvements but was interested mostly in pricing for these improvements. I noted that the colors for my area that are hard to find was purple and barbados blue. Style is a concern, that is why it is nice to stand out with more rare colors. The money saved on a 04 purchase could easily be used to purchase upgrades to surpass the 400hp of the LS2 or could be left in my bank account. I just wanted info to look at the big picture. I've already looked at the Holden web-site and that is what sparked interest to confirm these color changes on 05's for the U.S. Thanks for the ls1gto link.

exzur

In Australia, the MSRP for the Holden Monaro with the 5.7 l HO Gen III ‘LS1 Plus, equipped with rear wing spoiler is $61,240. The exchange rate today is 1.3589 Australian to US dollar. This translate to $45,066 US dollar.

In the US, GM is having a hard time selling the comparably equipped GTO for $33,190. Even at a very huge discount of almost $8,000, these GTOs is still hard to sell.

One has to pay around $20,000(US) more if the car has to be bought in Australia

ua01682

Does that make it an awsome deal here? Are we spoiled consumers here compared to OZ?

robertkcal

I agree, we are spoiled! It's more to the point that American car companies especially GM basically tell us "don't buy right away, because there will be big discounts as the model year goes on." They have us conditioned to wait.

midwesttrader

Pontiac announced pricing for the '04 on 11/3/03. Based on that I'd expect '05 pricing within the next 2 to 3 weeks. However unless the dealers have learned their lesson, msrp will only be the starting point for pricing. We'll see.

ua01682

I am biased since I bought an '04 last week for my wife. Love the LS1!

We will be in the marked 24 months from now, so who know's what deals GM may have on the '06 model then?

hammen2

...that Pontiac won't be announcing MSRP on the '05's until just before they start hitting dealerships (theoretically starting in December, but more likely to be January). They don't want to do much until the glut of unsold '04's has dwindled...

--Robert

ocmike3

hmmmm....or the money saved could go towards a custom paint job. For me 350 hp is more than I need to get into trouble with.