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Pontiac - While October sales were off 12 percent, Pontiac sales for the calendar year-to-date are up 5 percent. Car sales for the calendar year have improved 9 percent, led by Bonneville sales, which continued to improve year-over-year with a 33 percent sales increase in October and a 38 percent increase for the calendar year and Grand Prix, with deliveries up 15 percent for the calendar year.
From above website;
“Limited Production
Those who want the 2004 GTO better hurry because only 18,000 will be offered annually in America for three years. After that, the car's future is uncertain.”
Despite the almost $7,000 discount and the lease that’s almost a giveaway only 1,258 GTOs were sold last month. The year is almost over and 8,513 GTOs are still sitting on dealer’s lot.
Those GTO fanatics have already bought the car. GM has to raise the discount or incentives. I beleive, most of the remaining GTOs will be acquired by bargain hunters at a lower than already low price. GM is on this business to make money. If the GTO is no longer profitable, you know what GM will do.
I had been holding on getting a GTO because of the Mustang. I am thankful I did, it saved me a lot of money ($100 under invoice and $3500 rebate) Totaled $25,810 ($27,510 when you include the $1700 for gas guzzler tax and transportation)
I almost paid $36,000 for a black one a few months ago, instead I got a deal and the Impulse Blue (With Blue Interior) which is what I wanted in the first place.
Give the Mustang a pass, the GTO is better in every category. Especially fit, finish and build quality.
>GTO is no longer profitable, you know what GM
>will do.
They are fixing a lot of small details in the 2005, increasing horsepower and are going to start racing it as well. So sales should go up, not that it really matters.
It was intended to get people in the dealarships and keep a performance car in the Pontiac lineup. They knew they would lose money on it and the car was always intended to be a short production.
They are using the Holden version of GTO as a stop gap until the new rear drive platform is available in 2007. Then the new GTO (or Trans AM) will be available. Making this series of GTO fairly rare and limited for eternity.
Charles
from the above website,
"The public's interest in the GTO has been everything we hoped it would be, and more," said Bob Lutz, GM vice chairman of product development. "This car is a strong statement from both Pontiac and GM that we are determined to re-energize the car market with vehicles that command the customer's attention and excite their senses."
Second quote:"It was intended to get people in the dealarships and keep a performance car in the Pontiac lineup. They knew they would lose money on it and the car was always intended to be a short production"
So Bob Lutz kill the Firebird due to poor sale and bring back the GTO to lose money again. Does not make sense.
If what's going on now with the GTO are all expected, Bob Lutz meaning of strong statement and energizing the car market is by giving too huge incentives and very big discounts thus commanding the customer's attention and excite their senses."
Pontiac excitement means $7,000+ off msrp and almost giveaway lease deal. I don't think so.
If the price of the 2005 GTO goes very low. Too low that's hard for me to pass by I may go for it. The 2005 Corvette is the car I really want, problem is I may not afford it.
No matter which car I buy, I am keeping my 2001 yellow Aztek.
PS Does anyone know why the insurance is higher than a 2004 Corvette.
New stuff introduced at SEMA from:
http://www.arrowheadperformance.com
http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=- PFYC&Category_Code=GT
I really like Arrowhead's new ducktail spoiler (fits the stock mounting holes, finally!) and may get one in the spring to replace my stocker (which I really dislike :-)
--Robert
Exzur's back to that Cavalier analogy thing again like clockwork. You made it how many posts? 4? 5?
Take the host's hints, and don't go there or I have to get heavy and I hate doing that.
thank you
Shifty
But, when I say the GTO resemble the forbidden word, the ‘C------r’. Some gets annoyed, others get offended. Why? Because it is true and the TRUTH HURTS.
The TRUTH is that other than that opinion you contribute nothing and your facts are wrong.
See post #1852 for example. If you were up to speed on the car you seem so interested in you would know that Pontiac revised the production number for this car down to 16K from 18K. You would also know that due to slow sales it's doubful they even produced that many. You would also know that nobody knows for sure how many '04s were made because the number has not been revealed yet.
(sorry hammen2 I couldn't resist)
Your assertion that the Pontiac sells for $20,000 less is flawed because you cite MSRP of the Aussie model, but real after-rebate transaction prices in the US. And you pick the absolute lowest transaction price ever, certainly not the average one. Not to mention that the MSRP is *not* the factory cost.
Also, your assertion is wrong that differing prices = loss of profit. GM sells many cars that are made here up in Canada. And they sell them for what is typically a lower price, often even as they have more equipment standard (like heated seats). Recently the canadian dollar has flucuated from as little as ~64 US cents to as much as ~ 82 US cents. But the MSRPs of canadian cars doesn't change every time the currency ratio changes. So sometims canadian cars are waaayyyy cheaper than they are in the US. Does this mean GM loses money on each sale? No it does not. While it's possible that they could if they didn't plan right, lower prices doesn't mean a loss necessarily. They likely set the price based on various costs at various volumes, and various estimated demands at various prices. If they sold for the same price, they'd probably lose money as no one would be able to afford most GM cars, and they'd just buy something else.
So to dumb down international economics to a comparison of MSRPs is just a waste of time spent reading your post.
As to the articles you are posting up, that Lutz one is from almost 2 years ago. The car wasn't even for sale then. As to your conclusions from his article, I don't see any kind of connection or logic used to draw them. He said the GTO may lose money but be a halo car. You are saying then that the car is losing money (based on your highly insightful analysis of the cost) and that this somehow cancels out what Lutz was invisioning. I don't care a whole lot for Lutz, but I really don't see what the article you linked to has to do with anything about anything.
If you seriously thought the GTO would be a Corvette at a $20k price break, then I don't know what to even begin to say to that... But also, wouldn't that mean that GM would lose more like $25,000 on each GTO sale based on your logic? A Corvette MSRP's for ~$51k, the GTO sells for $26k. So if the GTO were a Corvette on the cheap and a big success, it'd sell GM right out of business by your "reasoning", right?
Do me a favor before you post a reply. Think about one particular point that you want to make, then re-read your post and see if you make it (or any point). Maybe even run it by a friend first. It would save a lot of us a lot of pointless reaading.
TRUTH is whole post(s) read that way.
What I wrote is the OZs are paying at least $10k more per car. That does not mean Pontiac is losing. You read my posts wrong.
Quote "If you seriously thought the GTO would be a Corvette at a $20k price break, then I don't know what to even begin to say to that... But also, wouldn't that mean that GM would lose more like $25,000 on each GTO sale based on your logic? A Corvette MSRP's for ~$51k, the GTO sells for $26k. So if the GTO were a Corvette on the cheap and a big success, it'd sell GM right out of business by your "reasoning", right"
What is this nonesense? You are distorting the issue.
I used the Monaro' msrp versus the GTOs asking price less discounts. Put the US to OZ dollar conversion rate into the equation. That's how I got my figures. Plain and simple. Now tell me if I am off. Involving the Canadian currency will complicate the issue.
Now I know what you mean by "other dumb stuff". You read my posts and you don't get my point or YOU GET IT WRONG.
I think the GTO is a handsome, clean, and relevant design to put a hard-charging LS1 and Tremec 6spd. I don't want some dated retro-car. I am open minded and recognize that importing the Holden design saved time and saved me alot of money. (I actually prefer the Holden front clip tho') Win-Win. That's my opinion.
ps. Capital letters (yelling) and redundant diatribes are rude in normal polite/civilized conversation. You knew that, right?
Granted, exzur, the Cavalier analogies may mean different things to you. It may not be annoying to you. But if your objective is to communicate something of value with others then you should know by now that the resistance on this board to your repreated analogy isnt communication... it's a diatribe. Your " making a point" has a cost... I'm signing off on this sharing because of an inability to differentiate between monologue(make a point at all costs) and dialogue(sharing/listening). I will read your posts going forward with an open mind. But on principle I will ignore any post with the Cavalier analogy because your insistance on using it is in my book - rude.
karen@edmunds.com
regarding your e-mail address, which is not responding to our Terms of Use letters to you.
Second of all,
please contact the Host at
mr_shiftright@edmunds.com
before you make any more postings to this board. Please do not post to this board until you have straightened out your e-mail with karen and also e-mailed me.
To other members: Please do not respond to flames or get into arguments. Just go on with your discussion of the GTO and enjoy yourselves.
thank you
Host
Except for the exhaust outlets on both sides, I think I like the cleaner look of the 2004 better. I'd like to see the 18" wheels, though. Here's to hoping they don't have that weird notch at the end of each spoke.
PONTIAC GTO
New for 2005
* LS2 6.0L engine replaces LS1
o 400 horsepower (298 kw)
o 400 lb.-ft. of torque (542 Nm)
* Available hood with twin air scoops
* Revised rear fascia incorporating outlets for new split dual exhaust system
* Polished exhaust outlet tips
* Larger brake rotors and calipers
o Red-painted calipers with GTO logo on front caliper
* Driver foot rest
* Two new colors: blue and grey
The new blue seems like it's a darker blue called Midnight Blue Metallic, and the gray is Cyclone Gray Metallic, which I'd assume is darker than the Quicksilver Metallic.
Also do not like the Autocross spoiler. Gee, let's add a third hole in the center of the trunk! Really like Arrowhead Performance's ducktail-like spoiler - covers the stock mounting holes and still allows the interior-mounted CHMSL to be visible from the back.
If you don't like the Autocross rear end, wait until you see the regular '05. I personally think it looks too "ricer" and much prefer the "sleeper" look of my '04...
--Robert
PS When my GTO is parked in the garage the back reminds me of a BMW but nicer.
Since there seems to be a great deal of interest about exchange rates and different market prices for essentially the same car, the UK price is GBP35K, or at todays exchange rates approx US$60K, and the presenters are tripping over themselves at what a total bargain it is.
Here's the site.
http://www.sleepy-fish.com/whatsnew.htm
Be patient. Enjoy.
Dealers are supposed to check/lower tire pressure as part of the Pre-Delivery Inspection. Of course, they're also supposed to remove the packing material from the suspension, but you'd be surprised how many new GTO owners I talk to who have had issues because both weren't done. Like me, for instance (and I wonder if some of the suspension problems I had with my car were due to driving around for almost two weeks with both of these incorrect...
--Robert
It also went nuts one day and the overheat alarm went on - when I had just started the car after it had sat for four hours (going to lunch). Turn off, back on, fine.
Others on another forum have confirmed both of these behaviors. Interestingly enough, the Aussies don't see this on the Monaros, but the cabling is apparently still routed through the right-hand side of the firewall. The conventional wisdom is that there is some kind of short/ground fault with the wiring behind the glovebox on our LHD cars. Since the problem is very intermittent, it's not a big deal...
Hope this helps,
--Robert
(who prefers Kopps to Gilles :-)
In the rear, the spring clip spacers are supposedly bright red.
I am only going by what others have said, because I never noticed these items on my car (but did hear styrofoam-like squeaking from the front, and had lots of ride quality issues and clunking from the rear - which went away after the dealership worked on the car, but other suspension/firewall/etc. problems then became evident - fortunately, after 27 days in the shop in the first two months of ownership, my car finally seems to have settled down... just in time for me to put it away for the winter...)
--Robert
Actually there is, its called Ford Mustang GT. And without incentives it sells at 25K for a 300hp V8 model that according to C/D goes from 0-60 in 5.2 seconds.
I think the GTO is more car but the Mustang is better car, at least untill the 2005 model, but hey, the SVT would come out and then we have some real competition going!
Thanks!
I have the six speed w/ 6300 miles (all but 2 are mine). Have gotten 24 on highway only trips, by the computer. 91 or better octane is prefferred, but not required. I haven't noticed a loss in performance running 89 octane fuel. Once, I put in the 87 and could definitely feel the knock under acceleration. My normal trip to work and back is 3 miles off highway 35-45 mph and 4 miles on at 75mph. I average around 300 miles a tank (3/4 mark) and 17.8 mpg (and I don't have a light foot). If someone actually drove it all the time below 2000rpm (except in 6th gear), you might be able to get upwards of 19-20 mpg for city...but where's the fun in that?! This car was made to RUN!
Thanks again!