Pontiac - While October sales were off 12 percent, Pontiac sales for the calendar year-to-date are up 5 percent. Car sales for the calendar year have improved 9 percent, led by Bonneville sales, which continued to improve year-over-year with a 33 percent sales increase in October and a 38 percent increase for the calendar year and Grand Prix, with deliveries up 15 percent for the calendar year.
From above website; “Limited Production Those who want the 2004 GTO better hurry because only 18,000 will be offered annually in America for three years. After that, the car's future is uncertain.”
Despite the almost $7,000 discount and the lease that’s almost a giveaway only 1,258 GTOs were sold last month. The year is almost over and 8,513 GTOs are still sitting on dealer’s lot.
Those GTO fanatics have already bought the car. GM has to raise the discount or incentives. I beleive, most of the remaining GTOs will be acquired by bargain hunters at a lower than already low price. GM is on this business to make money. If the GTO is no longer profitable, you know what GM will do.
I found the 05 Mustang to be one sweet looking car from a distance. Once you get up close its chinzy... !!! The interior is mostly all flat black plastic with a real thin look and feel. I think the interiors of the current ones are better made. The seats are nice, but not as nice as the GTO seats.
I had been holding on getting a GTO because of the Mustang. I am thankful I did, it saved me a lot of money ($100 under invoice and $3500 rebate) Totaled $25,810 ($27,510 when you include the $1700 for gas guzzler tax and transportation)
I almost paid $36,000 for a black one a few months ago, instead I got a deal and the Impulse Blue (With Blue Interior) which is what I wanted in the first place.
Give the Mustang a pass, the GTO is better in every category. Especially fit, finish and build quality.
>GM is on this business to make money. If the >GTO is no longer profitable, you know what GM >will do.
They are fixing a lot of small details in the 2005, increasing horsepower and are going to start racing it as well. So sales should go up, not that it really matters.
It was intended to get people in the dealarships and keep a performance car in the Pontiac lineup. They knew they would lose money on it and the car was always intended to be a short production.
They are using the Holden version of GTO as a stop gap until the new rear drive platform is available in 2007. Then the new GTO (or Trans AM) will be available. Making this series of GTO fairly rare and limited for eternity.
Enjoy the IBM Blue/Blue. It was my 1st choice. Wife preferred yellow. Can't complain, how many of us are told, "Get the GTO, it's fun to blow away stoplight competition..."
from the above website, "The public's interest in the GTO has been everything we hoped it would be, and more," said Bob Lutz, GM vice chairman of product development. "This car is a strong statement from both Pontiac and GM that we are determined to re-energize the car market with vehicles that command the customer's attention and excite their senses."
Second quote:"It was intended to get people in the dealarships and keep a performance car in the Pontiac lineup. They knew they would lose money on it and the car was always intended to be a short production"
So Bob Lutz kill the Firebird due to poor sale and bring back the GTO to lose money again. Does not make sense.
If what's going on now with the GTO are all expected, Bob Lutz meaning of strong statement and energizing the car market is by giving too huge incentives and very big discounts thus commanding the customer's attention and excite their senses."
Pontiac excitement means $7,000+ off msrp and almost giveaway lease deal. I don't think so.
The GTO has almost all the attributes of the next car I would like to own. Why I would not go for it is in my posts or mesages. I am not going to say it again because some GTO fans will get annoyed.
If the price of the 2005 GTO goes very low. Too low that's hard for me to pass by I may go for it. The 2005 Corvette is the car I really want, problem is I may not afford it.
No matter which car I buy, I am keeping my 2001 yellow Aztek.
I really like Arrowhead's new ducktail spoiler (fits the stock mounting holes, finally!) and may get one in the spring to replace my stocker (which I really dislike :-)
Post deleted, as will any posts that constitute repetitive "brand-bashing". This type of thing isn't constructive and only starts fights. Trust me on that one.
Take the host's hints, and don't go there or I have to get heavy and I hate doing that.
I gust wanna say I owned alot of cars in my life time : Corvettes,Firebirds,audis,SUVs you name it. This car is me! It's not for everyone of course. I love it! I,m sitting here waiting to go pick my son up at school. It's awesome
No matter how many times I say the GTO looks like the Aztek, I would be just be ignored and be the laughing stuff, because it is a lie.
But, when I say the GTO resemble the forbidden word, the ‘C------r’. Some gets annoyed, others get offended. Why? Because it is true and the TRUTH HURTS.
The TRUTH is that other than that opinion you contribute nothing and your facts are wrong.
See post #1852 for example. If you were up to speed on the car you seem so interested in you would know that Pontiac revised the production number for this car down to 16K from 18K. You would also know that due to slow sales it's doubful they even produced that many. You would also know that nobody knows for sure how many '04s were made because the number has not been revealed yet.
Just wanted to toss out a few thoughts on how "Pontiac is losing $10k per GTO"... I was going to reply to excur's "analysis" of the cost a bit back, but Edmunds was acting up.
Your assertion that the Pontiac sells for $20,000 less is flawed because you cite MSRP of the Aussie model, but real after-rebate transaction prices in the US. And you pick the absolute lowest transaction price ever, certainly not the average one. Not to mention that the MSRP is *not* the factory cost.
Also, your assertion is wrong that differing prices = loss of profit. GM sells many cars that are made here up in Canada. And they sell them for what is typically a lower price, often even as they have more equipment standard (like heated seats). Recently the canadian dollar has flucuated from as little as ~64 US cents to as much as ~ 82 US cents. But the MSRPs of canadian cars doesn't change every time the currency ratio changes. So sometims canadian cars are waaayyyy cheaper than they are in the US. Does this mean GM loses money on each sale? No it does not. While it's possible that they could if they didn't plan right, lower prices doesn't mean a loss necessarily. They likely set the price based on various costs at various volumes, and various estimated demands at various prices. If they sold for the same price, they'd probably lose money as no one would be able to afford most GM cars, and they'd just buy something else.
So to dumb down international economics to a comparison of MSRPs is just a waste of time spent reading your post.
As to the articles you are posting up, that Lutz one is from almost 2 years ago. The car wasn't even for sale then. As to your conclusions from his article, I don't see any kind of connection or logic used to draw them. He said the GTO may lose money but be a halo car. You are saying then that the car is losing money (based on your highly insightful analysis of the cost) and that this somehow cancels out what Lutz was invisioning. I don't care a whole lot for Lutz, but I really don't see what the article you linked to has to do with anything about anything.
If you seriously thought the GTO would be a Corvette at a $20k price break, then I don't know what to even begin to say to that... But also, wouldn't that mean that GM would lose more like $25,000 on each GTO sale based on your logic? A Corvette MSRP's for ~$51k, the GTO sells for $26k. So if the GTO were a Corvette on the cheap and a big success, it'd sell GM right out of business by your "reasoning", right?
Do me a favor before you post a reply. Think about one particular point that you want to make, then re-read your post and see if you make it (or any point). Maybe even run it by a friend first. It would save a lot of us a lot of pointless reaading.
I did not say that "Pontiac is losing $10k per GTO"...
What I wrote is the OZs are paying at least $10k more per car. That does not mean Pontiac is losing. You read my posts wrong.
Quote "If you seriously thought the GTO would be a Corvette at a $20k price break, then I don't know what to even begin to say to that... But also, wouldn't that mean that GM would lose more like $25,000 on each GTO sale based on your logic? A Corvette MSRP's for ~$51k, the GTO sells for $26k. So if the GTO were a Corvette on the cheap and a big success, it'd sell GM right out of business by your "reasoning", right"
What is this nonesense? You are distorting the issue.
I used the Monaro' msrp versus the GTOs asking price less discounts. Put the US to OZ dollar conversion rate into the equation. That's how I got my figures. Plain and simple. Now tell me if I am off. Involving the Canadian currency will complicate the issue.
Now I know what you mean by "other dumb stuff". You read my posts and you don't get my point or YOU GET IT WRONG.
I haven't lied in any post. I expressed my opinion just like you do.
I think the GTO is a handsome, clean, and relevant design to put a hard-charging LS1 and Tremec 6spd. I don't want some dated retro-car. I am open minded and recognize that importing the Holden design saved time and saved me alot of money. (I actually prefer the Holden front clip tho') Win-Win. That's my opinion.
ps. Capital letters (yelling) and redundant diatribes are rude in normal polite/civilized conversation. You knew that, right?
I only capitalized the word you did because of cut-n-paste.
Granted, exzur, the Cavalier analogies may mean different things to you. It may not be annoying to you. But if your objective is to communicate something of value with others then you should know by now that the resistance on this board to your repreated analogy isnt communication... it's a diatribe. Your " making a point" has a cost... I'm signing off on this sharing because of an inability to differentiate between monologue(make a point at all costs) and dialogue(sharing/listening). I will read your posts going forward with an open mind. But on principle I will ignore any post with the Cavalier analogy because your insistance on using it is in my book - rude.
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before you make any more postings to this board. Please do not post to this board until you have straightened out your e-mail with karen and also e-mailed me.
To other members: Please do not respond to flames or get into arguments. Just go on with your discussion of the GTO and enjoy yourselves.
Here's the 2005 GTO with those dealer-installed option kits. I believe they are only available on black, torrid red, and whatever the 2005 blue is. The picts are from the public section of the wieck db, www.wieck.com:
Except for the exhaust outlets on both sides, I think I like the cleaner look of the 2004 better. I'd like to see the 18" wheels, though. Here's to hoping they don't have that weird notch at the end of each spoke.
I also don't know if you all have seen this, but media.gm.com seems to have info on the 2005 GTO. It may have been there for a bit, though, I dunno. www.pontiac.com doesn't seem to have it. Anyway, here's what's new:
PONTIAC GTO New for 2005
* LS2 6.0L engine replaces LS1 o 400 horsepower (298 kw) o 400 lb.-ft. of torque (542 Nm) * Available hood with twin air scoops * Revised rear fascia incorporating outlets for new split dual exhaust system * Polished exhaust outlet tips * Larger brake rotors and calipers o Red-painted calipers with GTO logo on front caliper * Driver foot rest * Two new colors: blue and grey
The new blue seems like it's a darker blue called Midnight Blue Metallic, and the gray is Cyclone Gray Metallic, which I'd assume is darker than the Quicksilver Metallic.
You can at least order the Autocross grills from GMPartsDirect or any GM dealership. They are the "nostrils" in the pic rjs posted. They come unpainted, and the grey doesn't look good on some colors. Personally I think they make the nose look like a Grand Am, so no Autocross for me...
Also do not like the Autocross spoiler. Gee, let's add a third hole in the center of the trunk! Really like Arrowhead Performance's ducktail-like spoiler - covers the stock mounting holes and still allows the interior-mounted CHMSL to be visible from the back.
If you don't like the Autocross rear end, wait until you see the regular '05. I personally think it looks too "ricer" and much prefer the "sleeper" look of my '04...
When I first saw the GTO at a Dealership I thought the car was too plain, but something about the car was special. After many trips back to the dealer I realized that was it! I liked the sleek look. When parked next to a Grand Am GT it made the Grand Am look cheap. So when I saw the 2005 Pics on the web I knew I had to buy an 04 because I didn't want a sooped up Grand Am. By the way I'm 46 maybe that's why.
PS When my GTO is parked in the garage the back reminds me of a BMW but nicer.
I have been a keen reader of this message board, but this is my first post. I bought my silver/black M6 GTO in August and I am enjoying it enormously. I was telling my sister in the UK about it and that over there it sells as the Vauxhall Monaro VXR. Well anyway to cut a long story short she was watching the popular BBC auto magazine "Top Gear" and there was a comparison of the Monaro VXR, the Jaguar S-Type R and the Chrysler 300. I enclose the link to view the entire article, click on the October 25th "Top Gear - Monaro, Chrysler, Jaguar" link. I must warn you that the article takes about 25 minutes to download over broadband! I think GTO fans will be impressed with the report, even if the presenters are ever so British. Since there seems to be a great deal of interest about exchange rates and different market prices for essentially the same car, the UK price is GBP35K, or at todays exchange rates approx US$60K, and the presenters are tripping over themselves at what a total bargain it is.
Anybody who lives in the USA and doesn't realize the GTO is a Great car for the money is not an educated consumer. There isn't another car out there offering this complete package for around $26,000.
I don't know about the UK, but many countries tack on an excessive tariff/tax for autos - example: in Singapore the price of the car is basically doubled or more by the tariff. So, I don't know if an exact exchange rate comparison is valid.
Just wondering if anyone else out there bought their GTO with 50lbs air pressure in their tires. (it rides a little smoother with 32lbs) Do they ship the cars with 50lbs tire pressure or what do you think happened.
...they ship them with around 60 lbs psi in the tires, to keep them from flat-spotting during the long boat trip/storage at Benecia/rail trip to KC.
Dealers are supposed to check/lower tire pressure as part of the Pre-Delivery Inspection. Of course, they're also supposed to remove the packing material from the suspension, but you'd be surprised how many new GTO owners I talk to who have had issues because both weren't done. Like me, for instance (and I wonder if some of the suspension problems I had with my car were due to driving around for almost two weeks with both of these incorrect...
Saturday morning when I started my car the speedo went nuts. It was bouncing all over the place. I shut off the car and re started it - the problem went away. Anyone else have this happen?
Yep. It pegged at 200 one day - wish I'd been able to pull out the camera cell phone and snap a picture of that.
It also went nuts one day and the overheat alarm went on - when I had just started the car after it had sat for four hours (going to lunch). Turn off, back on, fine.
Others on another forum have confirmed both of these behaviors. Interestingly enough, the Aussies don't see this on the Monaros, but the cabling is apparently still routed through the right-hand side of the firewall. The conventional wisdom is that there is some kind of short/ground fault with the wiring behind the glovebox on our LHD cars. Since the problem is very intermittent, it's not a big deal...
On the front suspension, the packing material is supposedly styrofoam blocks at the top of the strut towers.
In the rear, the spring clip spacers are supposedly bright red.
I am only going by what others have said, because I never noticed these items on my car (but did hear styrofoam-like squeaking from the front, and had lots of ride quality issues and clunking from the rear - which went away after the dealership worked on the car, but other suspension/firewall/etc. problems then became evident - fortunately, after 27 days in the shop in the first two months of ownership, my car finally seems to have settled down... just in time for me to put it away for the winter...)
"Anybody who lives in the USA and doesn't realize the GTO is a Great car for the money is not an educated consumer. There isn't another car out there offering this complete package for around $26,000."
Actually there is, its called Ford Mustang GT. And without incentives it sells at 25K for a 300hp V8 model that according to C/D goes from 0-60 in 5.2 seconds.
I think the GTO is more car but the Mustang is better car, at least untill the 2005 model, but hey, the SVT would come out and then we have some real competition going!
I think you should take a closer look at the GTO. Not just drive by it and read articles on it. I've driven both and do not agree. The GTO has a thicker more solid feel to it not to mention nicer interior more HP and More torque. I'd compare the Mustang GT to a Z28 or Trans Am which I also owned. The Trans Am out handled the Mustang which I thought had a loose feel.
Hi, I am looking at an '04 GTO and am wondering if any current owners have ever got 29MPG on a strictly highway only drive under perfect conditions, in a 6 speed model.. or am I looking at more like 24 for highway driving? Also if you do respond, are you going by the car's computer, or your own calculations at the pump. I realize I should probably expect to get about 15 around town. Also, what sort of gas do you run on? Is this a premium only vehicle?
I have the six speed w/ 6300 miles (all but 2 are mine). Have gotten 24 on highway only trips, by the computer. 91 or better octane is prefferred, but not required. I haven't noticed a loss in performance running 89 octane fuel. Once, I put in the 87 and could definitely feel the knock under acceleration. My normal trip to work and back is 3 miles off highway 35-45 mph and 4 miles on at 75mph. I average around 300 miles a tank (3/4 mark) and 17.8 mpg (and I don't have a light foot). If someone actually drove it all the time below 2000rpm (except in 6th gear), you might be able to get upwards of 19-20 mpg for city...but where's the fun in that?! This car was made to RUN!
After about 1600 miles, all city driving, I am only averaging about 12 mpg. Granted I drive it pretty hard. However, I was not ever expecting to get really good mileage - I bought it to have fun!
Thanks for the responses. Yeah, I would buy the car more for fun driving.. not gas milage. I just want my expectations to be set accurately. I don't want to think I can get 28/29 on road trips when it's really more like 24. Thanks again!
I've gotten 29mpg by going 45mph in 6th gear. I gon't know why they call it 'highway'. If you drove that speed on the highway you would be run off the road. Plus you can't excellerate. But around town on the expressway I have been able to do it. Other than that I am getting around 16mpg average. That's a little higher than I last posted but it is probably due to a little bit more of freeway driving. I normally drive at around 1800 rpms but sometimes I check out the instantaneous gas mileage and that's when I go way low on the rpms. What I've noticed is that the higher the gear you are in the higher the gas mileage. Duh! Not much fun though.
If your worried about gas mileage. You may want to check out insurance cost. I have an automatic. Get about 17.8 average on computer. About the same as my 2001 Trans Am and 1985 Corvette. Much better than my 2003 Yukon. I noticed sitting at idle kills average MPG.
Just turned 1100 miles on my A4 and according to the mileage computer, the current tank is showing right at 21 mpg. About a third of this tank was a 120 mile rural highway trip (two-lanes at 55 to 65 mph) and not much A/C needed. I'm actually pleasantly surprised by mileage that good; EPA estimates on my car are 16 city/21 highway. Keep in mind that sitting at idle you are getting ZERO miles per gallon.
The Boston Auto Show I went to last week has the 2005 GTO (with LS2 engine). The spokeman said the show will move to San Francisco around turkey day. Anyway, aside from the engine, I didn't notice any big differences. I was able to sit in it and it's very nice. The interior is very high quality and comfortable. However, I still hate the small trunk. It's shallow due to the fuel tank still up there and there's obviously no "pass through" or fold down rear-seats. I don't think a golf bag can fit in there. The spokeman was telling me how great it is to have this fuel tank in the trunk, just like in a race car. *roll eyes*
I experienced the same speedo situation one morning a month ago. After shutting down and restarting, things were back to normal. It has not happened again. Currently at 1600 miles.
My local Ford dealer finally got an 05 Mustang. The salesmen and other employees all day had taken turns flogging it all over town. I had tried several times to "bait" them into racking off their pipes or laying down a little rubber. I had given up, when my luck had changed...A couple of salesmen were stopped at red light when quietly I pulled up beside them. They were looking over the other way waving at someone they knew. When the light turn green we pulled out...they were letting it wind out for their friend when suddenly they realized that awesome sound wasn't coming from them. The look on their faces was priceless. They winded it up and started banging gears but couldn't keep up. Puzzled by all the hype about the new Mustang's performance I've read in magazines I took my "other" car over the dealership to inspect. The salesman and I took the 'stang out for a spin. I do believe that the Mustang is a fine car but doesn't compare in interior quality and performance. It seemed to lack the power of my GTO. Has anyone else had a chance to compare them back to back? Did Ford put out some "ringers" for the press?
Comments
YTD = 9487
Pontiac - While October sales were off 12 percent, Pontiac sales for the calendar year-to-date are up 5 percent. Car sales for the calendar year have improved 9 percent, led by Bonneville sales, which continued to improve year-over-year with a 33 percent sales increase in October and a 38 percent increase for the calendar year and Grand Prix, with deliveries up 15 percent for the calendar year.
From above website;
“Limited Production
Those who want the 2004 GTO better hurry because only 18,000 will be offered annually in America for three years. After that, the car's future is uncertain.”
Despite the almost $7,000 discount and the lease that’s almost a giveaway only 1,258 GTOs were sold last month. The year is almost over and 8,513 GTOs are still sitting on dealer’s lot.
Those GTO fanatics have already bought the car. GM has to raise the discount or incentives. I beleive, most of the remaining GTOs will be acquired by bargain hunters at a lower than already low price. GM is on this business to make money. If the GTO is no longer profitable, you know what GM will do.
I had been holding on getting a GTO because of the Mustang. I am thankful I did, it saved me a lot of money ($100 under invoice and $3500 rebate) Totaled $25,810 ($27,510 when you include the $1700 for gas guzzler tax and transportation)
I almost paid $36,000 for a black one a few months ago, instead I got a deal and the Impulse Blue (With Blue Interior) which is what I wanted in the first place.
Give the Mustang a pass, the GTO is better in every category. Especially fit, finish and build quality.
>GTO is no longer profitable, you know what GM
>will do.
They are fixing a lot of small details in the 2005, increasing horsepower and are going to start racing it as well. So sales should go up, not that it really matters.
It was intended to get people in the dealarships and keep a performance car in the Pontiac lineup. They knew they would lose money on it and the car was always intended to be a short production.
They are using the Holden version of GTO as a stop gap until the new rear drive platform is available in 2007. Then the new GTO (or Trans AM) will be available. Making this series of GTO fairly rare and limited for eternity.
Charles
from the above website,
"The public's interest in the GTO has been everything we hoped it would be, and more," said Bob Lutz, GM vice chairman of product development. "This car is a strong statement from both Pontiac and GM that we are determined to re-energize the car market with vehicles that command the customer's attention and excite their senses."
Second quote:"It was intended to get people in the dealarships and keep a performance car in the Pontiac lineup. They knew they would lose money on it and the car was always intended to be a short production"
So Bob Lutz kill the Firebird due to poor sale and bring back the GTO to lose money again. Does not make sense.
If what's going on now with the GTO are all expected, Bob Lutz meaning of strong statement and energizing the car market is by giving too huge incentives and very big discounts thus commanding the customer's attention and excite their senses."
Pontiac excitement means $7,000+ off msrp and almost giveaway lease deal. I don't think so.
If the price of the 2005 GTO goes very low. Too low that's hard for me to pass by I may go for it. The 2005 Corvette is the car I really want, problem is I may not afford it.
No matter which car I buy, I am keeping my 2001 yellow Aztek.
PS Does anyone know why the insurance is higher than a 2004 Corvette.
New stuff introduced at SEMA from:
http://www.arrowheadperformance.com
http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=- PFYC&Category_Code=GT
I really like Arrowhead's new ducktail spoiler (fits the stock mounting holes, finally!) and may get one in the spring to replace my stocker (which I really dislike :-)
--Robert
Exzur's back to that Cavalier analogy thing again like clockwork. You made it how many posts? 4? 5?
Take the host's hints, and don't go there or I have to get heavy and I hate doing that.
thank you
Shifty
But, when I say the GTO resemble the forbidden word, the ‘C------r’. Some gets annoyed, others get offended. Why? Because it is true and the TRUTH HURTS.
The TRUTH is that other than that opinion you contribute nothing and your facts are wrong.
See post #1852 for example. If you were up to speed on the car you seem so interested in you would know that Pontiac revised the production number for this car down to 16K from 18K. You would also know that due to slow sales it's doubful they even produced that many. You would also know that nobody knows for sure how many '04s were made because the number has not been revealed yet.
(sorry hammen2 I couldn't resist)
Your assertion that the Pontiac sells for $20,000 less is flawed because you cite MSRP of the Aussie model, but real after-rebate transaction prices in the US. And you pick the absolute lowest transaction price ever, certainly not the average one. Not to mention that the MSRP is *not* the factory cost.
Also, your assertion is wrong that differing prices = loss of profit. GM sells many cars that are made here up in Canada. And they sell them for what is typically a lower price, often even as they have more equipment standard (like heated seats). Recently the canadian dollar has flucuated from as little as ~64 US cents to as much as ~ 82 US cents. But the MSRPs of canadian cars doesn't change every time the currency ratio changes. So sometims canadian cars are waaayyyy cheaper than they are in the US. Does this mean GM loses money on each sale? No it does not. While it's possible that they could if they didn't plan right, lower prices doesn't mean a loss necessarily. They likely set the price based on various costs at various volumes, and various estimated demands at various prices. If they sold for the same price, they'd probably lose money as no one would be able to afford most GM cars, and they'd just buy something else.
So to dumb down international economics to a comparison of MSRPs is just a waste of time spent reading your post.
As to the articles you are posting up, that Lutz one is from almost 2 years ago. The car wasn't even for sale then. As to your conclusions from his article, I don't see any kind of connection or logic used to draw them. He said the GTO may lose money but be a halo car. You are saying then that the car is losing money (based on your highly insightful analysis of the cost) and that this somehow cancels out what Lutz was invisioning. I don't care a whole lot for Lutz, but I really don't see what the article you linked to has to do with anything about anything.
If you seriously thought the GTO would be a Corvette at a $20k price break, then I don't know what to even begin to say to that... But also, wouldn't that mean that GM would lose more like $25,000 on each GTO sale based on your logic? A Corvette MSRP's for ~$51k, the GTO sells for $26k. So if the GTO were a Corvette on the cheap and a big success, it'd sell GM right out of business by your "reasoning", right?
Do me a favor before you post a reply. Think about one particular point that you want to make, then re-read your post and see if you make it (or any point). Maybe even run it by a friend first. It would save a lot of us a lot of pointless reaading.
TRUTH is whole post(s) read that way.
What I wrote is the OZs are paying at least $10k more per car. That does not mean Pontiac is losing. You read my posts wrong.
Quote "If you seriously thought the GTO would be a Corvette at a $20k price break, then I don't know what to even begin to say to that... But also, wouldn't that mean that GM would lose more like $25,000 on each GTO sale based on your logic? A Corvette MSRP's for ~$51k, the GTO sells for $26k. So if the GTO were a Corvette on the cheap and a big success, it'd sell GM right out of business by your "reasoning", right"
What is this nonesense? You are distorting the issue.
I used the Monaro' msrp versus the GTOs asking price less discounts. Put the US to OZ dollar conversion rate into the equation. That's how I got my figures. Plain and simple. Now tell me if I am off. Involving the Canadian currency will complicate the issue.
Now I know what you mean by "other dumb stuff". You read my posts and you don't get my point or YOU GET IT WRONG.
I think the GTO is a handsome, clean, and relevant design to put a hard-charging LS1 and Tremec 6spd. I don't want some dated retro-car. I am open minded and recognize that importing the Holden design saved time and saved me alot of money. (I actually prefer the Holden front clip tho') Win-Win. That's my opinion.
ps. Capital letters (yelling) and redundant diatribes are rude in normal polite/civilized conversation. You knew that, right?
Granted, exzur, the Cavalier analogies may mean different things to you. It may not be annoying to you. But if your objective is to communicate something of value with others then you should know by now that the resistance on this board to your repreated analogy isnt communication... it's a diatribe. Your " making a point" has a cost... I'm signing off on this sharing because of an inability to differentiate between monologue(make a point at all costs) and dialogue(sharing/listening). I will read your posts going forward with an open mind. But on principle I will ignore any post with the Cavalier analogy because your insistance on using it is in my book - rude.
karen@edmunds.com
regarding your e-mail address, which is not responding to our Terms of Use letters to you.
Second of all,
please contact the Host at
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before you make any more postings to this board. Please do not post to this board until you have straightened out your e-mail with karen and also e-mailed me.
To other members: Please do not respond to flames or get into arguments. Just go on with your discussion of the GTO and enjoy yourselves.
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Except for the exhaust outlets on both sides, I think I like the cleaner look of the 2004 better. I'd like to see the 18" wheels, though. Here's to hoping they don't have that weird notch at the end of each spoke.
PONTIAC GTO
New for 2005
* LS2 6.0L engine replaces LS1
o 400 horsepower (298 kw)
o 400 lb.-ft. of torque (542 Nm)
* Available hood with twin air scoops
* Revised rear fascia incorporating outlets for new split dual exhaust system
* Polished exhaust outlet tips
* Larger brake rotors and calipers
o Red-painted calipers with GTO logo on front caliper
* Driver foot rest
* Two new colors: blue and grey
The new blue seems like it's a darker blue called Midnight Blue Metallic, and the gray is Cyclone Gray Metallic, which I'd assume is darker than the Quicksilver Metallic.
Also do not like the Autocross spoiler. Gee, let's add a third hole in the center of the trunk! Really like Arrowhead Performance's ducktail-like spoiler - covers the stock mounting holes and still allows the interior-mounted CHMSL to be visible from the back.
If you don't like the Autocross rear end, wait until you see the regular '05. I personally think it looks too "ricer" and much prefer the "sleeper" look of my '04...
--Robert
PS When my GTO is parked in the garage the back reminds me of a BMW but nicer.
Since there seems to be a great deal of interest about exchange rates and different market prices for essentially the same car, the UK price is GBP35K, or at todays exchange rates approx US$60K, and the presenters are tripping over themselves at what a total bargain it is.
Here's the site.
http://www.sleepy-fish.com/whatsnew.htm
Be patient. Enjoy.
Dealers are supposed to check/lower tire pressure as part of the Pre-Delivery Inspection. Of course, they're also supposed to remove the packing material from the suspension, but you'd be surprised how many new GTO owners I talk to who have had issues because both weren't done. Like me, for instance (and I wonder if some of the suspension problems I had with my car were due to driving around for almost two weeks with both of these incorrect...
--Robert
It also went nuts one day and the overheat alarm went on - when I had just started the car after it had sat for four hours (going to lunch). Turn off, back on, fine.
Others on another forum have confirmed both of these behaviors. Interestingly enough, the Aussies don't see this on the Monaros, but the cabling is apparently still routed through the right-hand side of the firewall. The conventional wisdom is that there is some kind of short/ground fault with the wiring behind the glovebox on our LHD cars. Since the problem is very intermittent, it's not a big deal...
Hope this helps,
--Robert
(who prefers Kopps to Gilles :-)
In the rear, the spring clip spacers are supposedly bright red.
I am only going by what others have said, because I never noticed these items on my car (but did hear styrofoam-like squeaking from the front, and had lots of ride quality issues and clunking from the rear - which went away after the dealership worked on the car, but other suspension/firewall/etc. problems then became evident - fortunately, after 27 days in the shop in the first two months of ownership, my car finally seems to have settled down... just in time for me to put it away for the winter...)
--Robert
Actually there is, its called Ford Mustang GT. And without incentives it sells at 25K for a 300hp V8 model that according to C/D goes from 0-60 in 5.2 seconds.
I think the GTO is more car but the Mustang is better car, at least untill the 2005 model, but hey, the SVT would come out and then we have some real competition going!
Thanks!
I have the six speed w/ 6300 miles (all but 2 are mine). Have gotten 24 on highway only trips, by the computer. 91 or better octane is prefferred, but not required. I haven't noticed a loss in performance running 89 octane fuel. Once, I put in the 87 and could definitely feel the knock under acceleration. My normal trip to work and back is 3 miles off highway 35-45 mph and 4 miles on at 75mph. I average around 300 miles a tank (3/4 mark) and 17.8 mpg (and I don't have a light foot). If someone actually drove it all the time below 2000rpm (except in 6th gear), you might be able to get upwards of 19-20 mpg for city...but where's the fun in that?! This car was made to RUN!
Thanks again!