Pontiac GTO

sputterguy

Thanks for the information on the LS2 and the LS6. I think that pretty much clears things up for me. I was going to ask what vehicle the LS7 was going into but that has been answered by the picture of the Corvette engine. So is the Z06 a high perfomance Corvette or something?

rorr

"So is the Z06 a high perfomance Corvette or something?"

 

Ummmm....yes. I think one could say the Z06 is a high performance Corvette....

midwesttrader

Failure might be a bit strong, but certainly a big disappointment.

 

As of 12/1/04 they still had one-third of the '04 cars they made unsold, and the rebate is up to $5500 to try and move that last 5K units. Somehow I don't think that's what Lutz and the GM boys had in mind for their halo car.

 

BTW - I think the UAW thing was a myth, the limit had more to do with Holden's production capacity.

bottgers

While I think Pontiac got more right than wrong with the new Goat, this car is way too hefty. Put this thing on a diet and shave, let's say about 700 lbs off, and we've got a real car!

hammen2

...it's designed for the roads (or lack thereof) in Oz. Big, beefy skidplates, solid frame, et. al.

 

Losing 200-300 pounds shouldn't be a problem for the next-gen. Losing 700 pounds, and well, skip the back seat, because you're getting close to Z06 territory...

jontyrees

It all started so innocently when a $325 lease pmt ad in the paper caught my eye, then I read the C&D comparison article, and the next thing I knew I was at the dealership "just to take a look". They let me bring it home last night so my wife could drive it, and the rest is history. I actually took home a red with black interior 6M, but on Monday I will be picking up a black w/red interior 6M. Turned out the $325 pmt was with TTL in cash up front, so I ended up at $375 including the gap insurance and some semi-bogus paint and upholstery protectant. They knocked my effective interest rate down 1% and added the protectant deal so maintaining the same mthly -

I was ok with that since I'm getting it at $7500 off sticker, and I live in Austin TX, so paint can take a beating.

 

The trunk was almost a deal killer, but I'm sure we can deal with it. The real bummer is that it will be my wife's car. She'll be the soccer Mom in the muscle car - minivan this!

 

So, know anyone that wants to buy a '96 SHO?

dat2

Hey, Did you get an 04 or 05 GTO?? Also, what was the cash upfront to get the monthly lease payment at 325, what is the lease term, and how many miles per month. Thanks!!

hammen2

It would have to be an '04 as the '05's won't be at dealerships until January. Plus, there are no incentives on the '05's, whereas the '04's have between $3500 (Western US), $5000 (Midwest), or $5500 (East/South) GMAC finance rebate, as well as the 0.9/36, 1.9/48, and 2.9/60 financing.

 

If you have a GM card and recently got that topped off to $2k or $3k, they will top it off up to $5k if you buy a 2004 GTO (or an SSR and one particular Caddy - think it might be the V8 SRX, but maybe it's the XLR). And, don't forget that GM dealers may have $500 "value coupons", of which up to 3 may be used on a GTO deal.

 

Most dealers will start negotiating now at invoice (maybe less). 2004 invoice is around $31,2 (stick) and $31,7 (auto). Assume the $5500 discount, throw in another $5k GM card and $1500 value certs, and you might be looking at $19,2-$19.7 + TTL, financing the rest at the low finance rates. Don't forget about the military discount, college grad discount, Olds owner discount, or GM side-saddle coupons (sooner or later, the car will be free :-)

 

Is this the performance car deal of the year or what? Hope the '05 doesn't suffer the same fate...

 

--Robert

jontyrees

I didn't get THAT good of a deal. Mine was sticker, ($33190) less $5500 GMAC discount, less $2000 from my company discount (GMS?) = $25690. Could also have got the internet discount which was $1998 instead of the GMS, so anyone can get it. The dealership does a little better with the corp discount instead of the internet, so we went that route. The whole sales aexerience was great. My salesman was really low key and helpful, let me take the car home, etc, and it only had 50 miles on it.

 

48mo lease, 5.5% interest rate, 48% residual.$0 down, $375/mth.

 

Paying $1800 up front would have brought it down to $325.

 

I'm good with extending the lease to 4yrs. Just means I get to have this car for 48mos at a sub-$400 pmt. Cool!

 

It was just too good an opportunity to pass up - when else am I going to get my hands on a rocket ship like this?

 

Also, has anyone seen this promo movie for GTOs - The Last Ride?

scottp4

Thanks for the reply andys120. The information about the warranty paint job was given to me by the manager of the bodyshop at the GM dealership that I took it to. I believe the guy was being truthful about what kind of job he could do verses the job they do in the factory. GM is saying that they can't get a factory painted hood, and is insisting they have it painted in their bodyshop. You buy a new car and you get a half and half paint job. I am fighting them on this one! NOBODY buying a new car should put up with a half and half paint job when they paid for a 100% factory painted car! especially a "top of the line" GTO! and I bet they would do the same for a 2005 Corvette!

andys120

You have the right idea scottp, don't let them hose you over. You're entitled to a first class factory-quality paint job.

scottp4

Thanks for the reply on this one hammen2.

 

Yes the dealer was, I believe, being up front and truthful with me about the quality job they can do vs the factory, it's about the baking temp. But really the point is that if you buy a new car what you paid for is a 100% factory painted car, not a half and half painted car! and at that point one should have the option of returning the car for one that is not a MISTAKE. GM can then repaint it as they wish, disclose the problem to the next potential buyer and let the buyer negotiate a price based on the half and half paint job. This is only fair!

and your GTO might also have a defective coat that was not done right in the factory causing excessive chips on your hood take it to a dealer and voice your concerns I would like to know what they say. Good Luck

scottp4

Thanks for your support on this one andys120!

 

GM has huge power in the world and can dictate that power whenever they feel like it.

 

Sometimes I think they don't view us as their cherished customers. But as a challenge for them to WIN if they make any mistakes with the cars they sell. It must be some sort of game they like to play. I just have to "keep the faith" of TRUTH, JUSTICE, and the AMERICAN WAY, cause I know I'm right on this one!

dat2

Thanks for the info! What is your yearly mileage allowance? Thanks...

rjs200240

I believe cars get repainted all the time if there is damage on delivery. It does not have to be disclosed to the buyer and is still a new car.

 

I agree it sucks. I mean, you pay the same as anyone else, and any car is a pretty big chunk of money. But currently dealerships don't have to treat people very well because they will always have customers. I think internet sales and such are beginning to take some of the sleaze out of car sales, but not all of it...

 

I don't believe baking temp should affect the quality of the paint job you get. It just won't cure during baking, so you'll have to wait to wax it, etc. Being a non-US car, I kind of wondered if the paint would be soft. It seems we get very hard paints that are quite chip resistant, but also get a lot of orange peel due to EPA regs. Euro cars tend to have more chip prone paints and less orange peel, at least generally.

andys120

Euro cars tend to have more chip prone paints and less orange peel, at least generally.

 

My observation would be the opposite. The last three Euro cars I've owned had very little tendency to pick up chips, nor ant orange peel.

 

I think you're correct in that there's no need for baking to achieve a good factory-quality paint job.

b4z

just wanted to ad my 2 cents on the paint thing.

I think it is the type of paint that is more prone to chipping.

The repaint will probably be a polyurethane base coat clear coat.

This will have very good color fastness(less fading) but chips more easily.

I have a '87 IROC that came with what I believe was a waterbased basecoat/clearcoat.

By the time the car was 2 years old the paint on the rear bumper was oxidizing even though I had waxed it.

In '93 GM repainted the car because the basecoat was not adhering to the primer.

That polyurethane chips and cracks like crazy.

I have repainted the bumper cover 3 times.

But it has kept it's gloss.

Waxed with Mother's Carnuba since '93.

 

I have noticed in the newer cars that the factory paint chips more easily.

I think it is because they are putting it on so thin now for enviromental reasons.

travisgregg

You have got me focused with these numbers ! I am following you on everything except the GM card worth $5000 ? What is that and how does one get it. For me it would be the missing link on pulling the trigger on a purchase but there must be a catch to it ? Thanks

hammen2

If you don't already have a GM card, you can't get the $5k unless you have a friend or family member with a GM card who did get the offer and is willing to let you use this incentive. All they have to do is add you as an authorized user on the card (don't have to actually issue you a card, so there's little risk to the cardholder).

 

Not everyone with a GM card got the $2k or $3k "roundup" offer (see http://www.gmcard.com/roundup - which has subsequently been sweetened to $5k on the GTO and 2 other GM cars...

 

Hope this helps,

 

--Robert

tripowergto

Ok, I know this has basically been covered already but today I received my GM card $5000 bonus offer in the mail and the wheels in my head just won't stop turning so I have to ask: What is the realistic bottom dollar deal on the 2004 GTO?

 

$5500 GMAC finance rebate with 0.9/36, 1.9/48, and 2.9/60 financing +

$5000 GM Card bonus +

$1500 possible(how probable?) dealer certs =

 

$12,000 off my best deal, correct? I wouldn't qualify for the Olds/military/college discounts but does anyone think $30K for a 6spd is possible before any rebates?

 

At $18K + TTL with 1.9/48 I'd really have to concider buying this car even though I don't even need new wheels. PA sales tax would be 6% of total after all rebates($18K hopefully) Anyone know what likely payments would be over 48 months with $0 down? w/$2k down? Is $19K much more likely?

 

At this cost I'd have to believe I could drive this car for roughly 2 years/20K miles and still get $15-$16K trade toward the new Zeta based GTO in 2007. Anyone else believe this is possible?

 

My red 2002 LS1 Hurst 6spd chrome wheels Formula w/30K miles has held it's value surprisingly well so far as I believe any true performance car will if taken care of.

bigdaddycoats

$32,995 inc. $700 dest.

$695 for manual

$1300 for gas guzzler with automatic.

 

So, $500 more for the 05 vs. the 04 if same as my manual. $500 is a bargain for the additional performance and the split exhaust.

groverc

I have shunned away from buying GM cars for nearly all of my adult life despite the fact that I qualify for employees pricing thanks to my father. My main reason for disliking GM so much has little to do with the cars, but instead, I just despise the policies of the company, which can be so frustrating. Take the GTO for example.

 

I am seriously considering buying the car, but the current incentives matrix is so insane, I'm having a hard time pulling the trigger.

 

The fact that if I lived a hour away, I would qualify for an additional $500. Or, if I had the GM card I would get another $5,000! In fact, using the GM employee price to buy a GTO gets you one of the worst possible prices. So what good is the allegedly coveted employee price?

 

I have no problem not getting the best deal, but right now, depending on what programs GM has arbitrarily assigned to you, your price could be thousands of dollars more than someone else.

 

Does this burn anyone else? To me, it is of little surprise GM keeps losing market share.

 

Rant, rant, rant . . .

exalteddragon1

You will have alot less to worry about since the 2005 GTO has a host of improvements and they kept the MSRP the same as last years model. This means incentives would at best/worst be lower. I suggest you go into a dealer at rant with them, they could offer you that extra 500 bucks, they are desperate to sell off 2004's.

I didn't think they would do this, I thought those idiots would raise the price despite the high incentives. You know, like they did with the CTS, people are gonna get sticker shock and leave the showroom saying "i can get a G35 with more hp and all the same features for 10K less" and they would also get a chrome grill, not plastic. But they would never even know that they had a 7K discount waiting for them.

In the case of the GTO, GM did it right, and i think the 2005 model will be a pretty good player. They made all the right improovements, IMO.

danf1

Using your numbers 1.9 @ 48 mos = 417/mo 0 down, 395/mo 1000 down

60 mos 2.9 0 down = 345/ mo

corkfish

"But they would never even know that they had a 7K discount waiting for them."

 

If I had known that you could have bought one of these for $26 or $27K, I wouldn't have bought my Forester XT. I didn't even consider looking at the GTO because I assumed it was a $35,000 car. Another example of poor management and GM lost my business.

rjs200240

I have no problem not getting the best deal, but right now, depending on what programs GM has arbitrarily assigned to you, your price could be thousands of dollars more than someone else.

 

I don't think it's really arbitrary. If you have a GM Card, you earn GM points. As a bonus, they now round up your points. If you got bonus frequent flyer miles on your frequent flyer card, should I complain that I don't get them when I don't have a frequent flyer credit card?

 

Also, you can use most of these incentives with your GM Supplier pricing, and the GTO is hardly the average GM vehicle when it comes to pricing and incentives (thankfully).

gmguy1177

Today i went to the dealer today to see what i could get. THey offered me an incredible lease deal on the 04 gto.

With zero money out of my pocket using only the 5000 gm card earnings i could lease for 232 a month for 24 months 12k miles a year. THis payment included me putting the tax annd tags and other fees in the payment. I am calling the insurance company today to check on insurance. This is very important in new jersey since our rates are so high!

hammen2

Not all GM Cardholders got the $5k roundup (I didn't get any roundup). So, that part _is_ completely arbitrary...

hammen2

FYI, swung by my dealer today to work out the details of the exchange of my car (not a buyback, exchange - when it happens on January 5th, it will have taken GM 7 weeks to get the paperwork completed). The General Manager told me that, once the consumer incentives expire on January 3, there will be no more direct-to-consumer incentives. So, if you're on the fence on the car, now is the time to act (some color combos are scarce - there's no Barbados Blue and only one Cosmos Purple car in Wisconsin, as far as I can tell with GM BuyPower)...

 

--Robert

corkfish

Is this accurate? The maximum GM card allowance for the GTO is $1000?

 

http://www.gmcard.com/GMCard/apply/redeem/allowances.jsp

hammen2

That's waived if you were one of the GM Card holders who got the "roundup" promotion. $5000 is the new maximum...

midwesttrader

"The General Manager told me that, once the consumer incentives expire on January 3, there will be no more direct-to-consumer incentives."

 

That sounds like some big sales talk to me. If they move close to 1K cars in December like they have during most months, that will still leave 4K to sell during the dog days of Winter with the '05 arriving within the next 4 to 6 weeks. There will have to be some form of incentive(s) until they clear them out. Of course if you have a certain color combo in mind selection will be dwindling.

qbrozen

well, in reality, its not uncommon for manufacturer incentives to dry up before all vehicles are sold. I've seen several instances where the newer model is actually cheaper than a leftover old model because there are incentives on the new and none on the old anymore.

 

I'm not saying that what this salesperson says is bull or not, just saying that its not impossible.

tripowergto

A few folks in NC have just purchased new 04 GTO's for $17,118 + TTL after all rebates and incentives!! Out the door was a bit over $18K.

 

I'm sold if I can find a 6 speed in my area for near that cost. What a performance car BARGAIN!!!!

andys120

I'll sell you the Brooklyn Bridge for the same price!

 

Such a deal!:^P

rorr

That's insane.

 

What do new Grand Ams go for, $8k?

tripowergto

All this rebate madness has me thinking. Right now someone could actually negotiate a base model Sunfire for roughly $10K subtract the $5K rebate + $2000(or more) GM card rebate and own a brand new warranteed car for $3k or less. Then you could sell it outright or go trade it in for what you actually wanted and be way ahead of the game!!

 

Crazy, you betcha, possible? HELL YEAH!!

zinger

How would you feel if you paid sticker for this car 1 year ago?

What do you think the resale value will be? The depreciation hit on this car will be even worse.

 

I dont see why the 2005's will be any different. 50 HP more and a hood scoop is not going to make me want to pay $34K plus tax.

 

I have shopped this car in the Chicago suburbs extensively and the best deal I have found is $24,540. There is no way it is going for $17,100. I say prove it - scan and post the invoice! I would also like to see the lease for 232 per month. I dont believe it.

 

I was getting nervous about getting the exact car I want but there are a dozen within 100 miles with the color and 6sp I want. And I still cant pull the trigger. Dont want to give up my Toyota GTS just yet.

casoncase

There are four bolts that secure the spoiler on my '04 Goat (10,500 miles of total driving fun -- the torque is a tonic). I want to take off the spoiler for my next '05 Goat. I can deal with those bolts, but what about the electrical harness leading to the spoiler light array? What's it look like? How do I do that disconnect?

 

IMO the media has a bias against GM's GTO. Okay, so my GTO is quality, inside and out, that you can't find in a stang -- but 3 inch split duals for the '05? How does the human mind deal with 3 inch pipes? I mean, my current goat deserves to have "listening parties" where we just eat and drink while listening to my goat grumble and roar. And now I'll have 400hp with split duals and a more "gutteral" sound? It's too much!

danf1

The price of 17,100 I do find to be a little unrealistic, but the lease sound right on.

hammen2

The $5k GM Card only applies to the GTO, Chevy SSR, and I think the Cadillac XLR. Not on a Sunfire, sorry. So, forget the $3k dream.

hammen2

I have shopped this car in the Chicago suburbs extensively and the best deal I have found is $24,540

 

Not sure if you're talking about 6-speed or auto, but the invoice pricing is 31,2 (m6) or 31,7 (a4). Subtract 3 $500 value certs and the $5k GMAC finance bonus and you're at $25.2-$25.7. Dealers must be getting into their holdback to get lower than that.

 

To go under $20k, you have to have a GM Card and have been chosen for the "roundup" promotion ($5k). There are also military and college grad discounts, Oldsmobile owner certs, GM retiree coupons, Chevy/GMC sidesaddle pickup coupons et. al. out there which can be combined w/the above. $17k + TTL seems far-fetched but $18k + TTL seems do-able with the right combo of incentives...

 

--Robert

zinger

6 Speed.

$5K GMAC Financing Bonus + 2.9 APr for 60

and GM "Certificates"

However they want to get it there is fine by me.

 

All this tells me is they over priced the car by at least $5K and they are hung with them on top of it.

 

I mentioned this price to another dealer and they said they would beat any price. They didnt even flinch.

exzur

In front me is an offer from GM, “Choose a 2004 Chevy SSR, Pontiac GTO or Cadillac SRX V8 and get $3,000 Bonus Earnings in addition to your original $3,000 topped –off earnings”.

 

That’s $6,000 folks. Add the $5,500 cash or rebate incentives for a total of $11,500. Last time I checked, a salesman at a nearby dealer was offering the car at invoice minus all incentives. Deduct $11,500 from the invoice of $31,053 and I can drive home a brand new GTO for $19,553.

 

Shall I do it? I don’t think so. I would rather break my bank account and go for the Corvette. Hopefully, in the next three months.

 

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

gard_mc

I did not get the 'round up' offer through my GM card and cannot get a straight answer why or what it is. Once I was told I hadn't had the card long enough (2-1/2 yrs) and once I was told it was random. I have 2 dealers that I can get an 04 GTO for $24K, if I could get the extra $5K round up I would go get it tomorrow. Any advice/info on getting this offer?

 

Thanks & Merry Christmas

hammen2

It is relatively random, based upon you updating your vehicle preferences, how recently you used your card, et. al.

 

Best thing I can suggest is trying to find a friend or co-worker who got the offer, and have them list you as an authorized user of the card. That way you can use their dollars to make the purchase...

 

--Robert

nyyace

I just purchased a leftover 04 yesterday. The dealer came down to $25,500, my gm card points were rounded up from $250 to 5,000. bringing the price to $20,500. With 2.9 financing for 60 months I couldn't resist! The car is black with the six speed, I pick it up on Monday. I know the 05's will have 400 hp, the hood scoops, and split exhaust, but this deal was too good to pass up.

 

Since I got so much money off the car I think I am going to re-invest about $1000 in some good snow tires. The talk is we are going to get a good amout of snow in NYC this winter, but I figure with traction control and dedicated snow tires I should be ok.

hammen2

Depends upon what card you get. The normal card gets you $5 for every $100 you charge. If you plan on using GM employee or supplier pricing, you need the Extended Family card, which is only $1 per $100 charged.

 

Of course, it goes without saying that you're only ahead with the GM Card if you pay it off every month and don't have a recurring balance. Surprises me to know that most folks don't know that, if they do carry a balance, that they're paying 18-21% interest from the minute they make their purchase...

 

I'm sure there's a GM Card discussion somewhere here on Edmunds... Smart Shopper discussion board would be a good place to look.

zinger

I can't resist:

With all the money your saving you can buy a better stereo too. That Blaupunkt rubs.

hammen2

Actually, the Blaupunkt's not too bad. Things you can do to improve the sound include:

 

a) don't use the pre-programmed EQ functions - they suck ($0)

b) adjust the subwoofer gain (in the trunk, on the left-hand side inside the trunk, if you pull the carpet/material back, you can reach your hand in there and adjust the dial, turning it up) ($0)

c) replace the speakers with something better ($$$)

 

I've done a) and b) and am much happier with the stereo. I will get around to c), but probably not in 2005 :-(

 

--Robert