Pontiac GTO

hammen2

The 300C is not really a sports car, IMHO. It's more a luxocruiser - a "poor man's" Cadillac Deville in Bentley clothing. The upcoming SRT-8 may be a different story, though...

bigdaddycoats

$34640. It is listed on the GM media site.

tolenash

If you want a 300 with your set of options, the wait for a factory order is currently 4-5 months (and maybe more). Good luck finding one with options you want and your price on a lot.
I had a "C" on order; but, after 16 weeks, I couldn't take it anymore. So I own a Blue/Blue M6 now! Couldn't be happier.

andys120

consolation prize for the 300C you couldn't get. Doesn't it sticker for two or three times what a 300C costs?

sydney80

If you have a dealer friend who can purchase you one at a dealer's or GM auction then go for it. The wholesale price on them currently is $21K and all the ones I've seen have less than 4,000 miles on them. What a deal!!! So, in a year from now I expect to see the 2005 with the same wholesale price. If the dealer is offering you a "deal" of 27K that is nuts. The car is already a year old and has depreciated the 30% like all other cars. So, if you can get one from a dealer for $22K - $23K then that's a good deal. Just trying to help and save you all some $$$.

hammen2

Can't get a low (0.9/1.9/2.9) finance rate on a used car (doesn't matter if you're paying cash) AND you have NO IDEA how someone has driven it, if they broke in the engine properly, et. al.

Just my 2 cents,

--Robert

hammen2

M6 = slang for a 6-speed manual, not a BMW :-)

andys120

Doh!

rjs200240

Actually two at my local Pontiac dealer. One was the Pulse Red, and the other black with red interior (and an auto). The pulse red is not metallic, and not a tinted clearcoat. It's just a solid color slightly dark red. I've no idea why it's an extra-cost option as the paint does not seem premium.

I like that the black is metallic, and the red gauges are really cool. I'd prefer them to the silver gauges on the pulse red car. The black car had a horrible red pinstripe, though, and some lame looking 18" chrome wheels (that the dealer wanted an extra $2800 for).

The interior is neat, that suede-like material on the doors and side of the center console is a nice touch, and I like the soft plastic of the dash (which my Aurora also has). The leather would be nicer if it were smoother (IMO), but it felt nice, and not that plasticy feel that some rough/thick automotive leather has (especially in SUV's). It seems like there aren't enough buttons on the dash. And I was surprised by how large the display is on the radio.

One thing that I dislike in pictures looks better in person. The rear 1/4 panel always looked odd to me in pictures. It looked very vertical and seems out of proportion and makes the rear wheels seem way too small. But in person, it rolls up a bit and has a crease and it looks much better than in photos.

I was amazed by the linear scratching all over the pulse red car!!

kkollwitz

"But in person, it rolls up a bit and has a crease and it looks much better than in photos."

I think they look much better moving than sitting still.

midwesttrader

This is from a reliable dealer source and significantly less than the GM Media site:

A4 base msrp = $32,295
+ $700 Destination
+ $1,300 Gas Guzzler Tax
=$34,295

M6 base msrp = $32,295
+ $700 Destination
+ $695 6-speed Transmission
=$33,690

Guess we'll have to wait for an "official" press release to be sure.

midwesttrader

The 10K barrier has finally been broken!

November = 1130
YTD = 10617

b4z

Leased a Quicksilver/black M6 2 days ago and picked it up yesterday.
These car is a blast!
Much more refined than any Camaro I have owned.

I got the $3500 rebate.
(3) $500 certificates
Plus discount form the dealer.
Total off was about $7K.

Like all of the GTos I test drove it had 55lbs of air in the tires.
Normal pressures make the car a mcuh better driver.
Steering is better, firmer etc.

Put 100 miles on it last night.
Best performance buy out there.

bigdaddycoats

Congrats!! Same exact car as mine. Sounds like you got a great deal. So, how much and how long is your lease? Have fun, they are such a blast to drive.

b4z

I did the 36 months.
I still have the SRX too.

This car is head and shoulders above a camaro.

Especially since I have gotten the tires properly inflated.

styx

Do yourself a favor and drive one, you'll see why there is no car out there that compares!

sputterguy

Right on Dude. I'm a little jealous though. I only got about $4k off on mine. But then I got it when they first started leasing and with the first incentives. Dang, I should've waited. Just kidding. I'm happy with the deal I got. You can't go wrong with these cars. Unless you paid over MSRP.

herzdawg007

Hey, I just found a good site for pictures of the 05. It is :
http://www.pontiac.com/tlr_content/index.jsp?cmp=tlrmedia&sou- - rce=tlrmedia
They are from "The Last Ride" movie. I didn't see it, did any of you guys? I'm wondering how much extra the "sport appearance package" will add to the price... These are the best pictures I've found so far and I like it better each time I see it!!

andys120

the '05 w sport appearance package has a proper GTO look and hits almost all the notes. Love the recessed grilles and restrained scoops. All that's missing are exhaust splitters and a delete fot the M Mouse trunk lid spoiler.

ocmike3

Car & Driver compared a 2005 GTO (yes 400hp & hood scoops) in their just out January 2005 edition. Stang won the comparo by 1 point. A bit better score on styling, pedal location, bit more room in the trunk... would have been a tie or GTO win. Their biggest gripe was the GTO's shifter. I think it probably says more about how good the GTO ("old Monero platform with tweaks") is than the all new Mustang. But either is a winner as far as I'm concerned.

qbrozen

Once again though (and I do like car and driver) the results were skewed by the silly "gotta-have-it factor." I don't have it in front of me, but I believe they gave the Mustang 7 more points than the GTO in that one category. So, taking all the "real" categories into account, the GTO actually won. Don't get me wrong, I think I'd probably go for the Mustang myself, but when I look at those C&D comparisons, I have gotten into the habit of doing just what I said above and taking out those categories that have nothing to do with a performance car.

hammen2

The full autocross appearance package is $2995 and comes pre-painted in red, black, and silver, IIRC. You can also buy just the individual parts, but have to paint them. I know the autocross grilles are around $250 for the 2 from places like GMPartsDirect.

As far as '05 photos goes, try going to http://autodeadline.com (public division of Wieck Photo, GM's digital asset management partner).

--Robert

b4z

Saw a yellow '04 at the dealer with the autocross grille that had the grey part painted flat black. Looked very good.
Didn't like the autocross wing though.
I want a GTO with no spoiler or maybe a small ducktail spoiler.

hammen2

The grilles look OK depending upon the color of the car they're on, and if/how they're painted. To me, they make the front end look a little more like a Grand Am. Not in my future, I don't think.

I don't care for the spoiler (either the Autocross one OR the stocker). Removing the stock spoiler (which is not built on the car, but is installed in Benecia, CA after the GTO's come off the boat) leaves holes in the trunk lid, which have to be covered/plugged.

I think I want this smaller ducktail spoiler for $425 + paint:

http://www.arrowheadperformance.com/exterior_items.htm

--Robert

b4z

I want one even smaller than that.
Something the size of a '82-90 Z28 spoiler.
Or even smaller.

hammen2

http://www.jhp.com.au/s_monaro.php

Of course, it doesn't fit the stock mounting holes...

b4z

http://www.jhp.com.au/enlarge.php?image=img/products/Spoilers/mon- - aro/yellowmonarodetail.jpg?imagealt=

Exactly!

The more understated the better.
I think a lot of people go with the bigest mod to justify the cost.

Guessing I would have to buy a replacement trunk lid attach and paint the spoiler.

My car will probably stay stock or I may just take the spoiler off and get some rubber plugs then paint them silver.

corkfish

I actually wrote C&D a note in response to their complaints about the styling. I pointed out that there are loads of boy racer alternatives and this is a performance car that an adult can drive. Pontiac finally gets the styling right and people complain that it's too bland. I just hope GM doesn't cave and start to make the cars' styling as silly as the firebirds started to get. Like driving the friggin batmobile for cryin out loud.

bigdaddycoats

Did you get your new GTO yet?

rjs200240

I thought the 25 to 18 points for "gotta have" was pretty lame too. I also don't like the real execution of the new Mustang. I thought the show car looked great, but the production car looks chintzy. Most of the small details that made the show car work are gone.

I'm not a fan of retro, though. I thought the t-bird, PT, new beetle, and the mustang are kinda lame. And where do you go from there? What's the next model look like?

Bigdaddy, if I'm the Robert you were asking, then no. I think the GTO is a neat car and a great bargain. But it's not me. I want another Corvette. And I can't really see buying a car from OZ. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just not me. I do think the improvements in the LS2 may be worth the wait if I were so inclined to get one. It's not quite the bargain the '04 is, but bigger brakes, 50hp, the split tailpipes, etc are things that are worth some of that extra price or would be to me at any rate.

I am curious if the CTS-V will eventually get the next Z06 motor...

hammen2

>Did you get your new GTO yet?

Nope, not until the 15th or so (the wheels turn slowly at GM - waiting for the paperwork). Just sent in payment #3, too, and today was a nice 45 degree day. Rains have washed away all of the road salt, so it'd be nice to take the new car out and drive it for a little bit before putting it away. By the 15th there'll probably be 6" of snow on the ground - in which case my GTO goes into storage on a flatbed, and my first drive will be next spring :-(

--Robert

sputterguy

Well said. The GTO is understated which is cool if you are not a teenager or a yuppie. Frankly I like the looks more every time I see it. That is, except for that thing on the trunk.

andys120

I'm an adult too, I'd be embarrassed to be seen in a late model Firebird but the '04 Goat erred to much in the side of restraint.

The photos of the '05 with appearance kit show a car that strikes a good balance between excitement and restraint, tho' like some I'd like it even better without the spoiler/wing.

midwesttrader

Rumors flying elsewhere that the GMAC rebate has been increased to $5500 with a 2.9% loan. Nothing more specific yet.

herzdawg007

They have now put the 2005 information on the pontiac.com site. There are some good new pics and informationg. The Sport Appearance Package looks really classy.

sputterguy

I like the looks of the new Mustang but in the end you still have a cheap car with a cheap interior, sloppy steering and sloppy shifting and it's still going to be a kids car, with one or two on every block. At least that's my feelings about it.

The CTS-V (now that's a car I wouldn't mind having) already has 400hp so switching it with the Z06 engine? Which is what I'm curious about. Why are there two different engines from Chevy with 400hp? Can any explain the difference between the LS2 and the LS6. It's very confusing for this old guy...

b4z

LS1 is GEN III motor and 5.7L.
LS6 is same as LS1 but with bigger cam, and better flowing heads, etc. which gives it 400 hp, 50 more than the LS1.
LS2 is a GEN IV motor and is 6.0L. it has the older (2001)LS6 cam but because of the increased displacement and other changes it makes 400 hp and more torque than even the LS6 motor.

The only '05 model that now has the LS6 is the Caddy CTS-V.
The '05 GTO, Corvette and SSR have the LS2.
The CTS-V will probably get it next year.

So think of the LS6 as being phased out, and the LS2 as the more powerful replacement for the LS1.
The LS7 will be the LS6's replacement and will have at least 480 hp and probably 6.3Ls.

skeezix

the LS6 and the LS2 are both rated at 400 ft-lbs of torque.

rjs200240

Both rated at 400 lb-ft peak torque. But the LS-6 had worse torque than the LS-1 below about 3500 rpm. I doubt the LS-2 suffers from that because of the increased displacement.

I wonder if the CTS-V will have the *next* Z06 engine. It already has the 2002-2004 engine.

texaszach

I was most happy to retrieve the most January issue of Car & Driver from my mailbox, after I caught a glimpse of the front cover.

 

Assuming the writer of the article is correct about the stock shifter being so poor, has anyone replaced their OEM shifter and if so, what with?

exalteddragon1

oh yea, and the top speed will be 200 mph.

Mr_Shiftright

for those who dare--LOL! I can't imagine hitting a rut or a rock at that speed.

hammen2

One of the more popular ones is the GM Motorsport RipShift

 

http://www.gmmotorsport.com/

 

I know LS1Speed sells it for around $350...

 

--Robert

scottp4

Has anyone had a paint problem with the '04 GTO?

Several days after purchase while washing I noticed primer gray showing through on the hood of my new BLACK GTO. The only fix by GM/Pontiac is to sand and repaint it with a inferior paint job in dealers bodyshop. The service manager warned me that it will be more vunerable to chips and will fade in a few years looking different than the rest of the car.

andys120

If I were you I'd insist on a new hood which would be factory painted, by the time it reached you it should be dry enough to resist stone chips.

 

I don't see why the repainted hood should fade any quicker than the rest of the car given there's perhaps six months difference in the age of the respective paint jobs and black is, after all, black.

 

Are you assuming that the dealer's repaint job will be inferior or did they say it would be. If that's the case I'd go to a good independent, have them do it and send the bill to GM. If they won't pay, take them to court. A hood repaint should fall below the threshold for Small Claims Court ($5k in most places).

 

hammen2

http://www.havican.com/GTO/2004GTOProductionFigures.pdf

 

I guess I'm lucky to have owned two of the 334 A4 Cosmos Purple GTO's made :-) Actually, I still don't have my replacement car yet - @#$@ GM bureaucracy.

 

--Robert

bigdaddycoats

Got to drive the GTO in a small amount of snow the other day - fun! I forgot how much fun doing fish tails in the snow can be.

 

On the serious side, it handled just fine.

hammen2

Frankly, the paint on these cars sucks. I barely got to drive my GTO (2500 miles in about month and a half of driving, spread out over 3 months) and I had a half-dozen stone chips on the hood. Just claying the car seemed to scratch the paint - it's very "soft".

 

The black isn't just black, it's "phantom black" and has some silver metallic in it. As asked before, did the dealer admit their paint job would be inferior? If so, then find out what body shop the local Lexus/Mercedes/BMW dealers use, and get an estimate, then turn that into your local dealer/Pontiac (call the hotline, open a case) and see if they'll pay to get it fixed right.

 

--Robert

styx

Dude you hit the nail right on the head! I love the 04 GTO and the fact I haven't seen one on the road yet. I'm not going to change a thing (maybe a set of chrome wheels). This car isn't for everybody but I have already received more compliments than I did on my 2000 White Trans AM.

 

Did you see the rebate is now $5500.

tripowergto

Wow, I'm surprised that they actually produced nearly 16,000 units concidering how many describe this car as a failure in the marketplace. That's very near it's original projection of 18K the UAW limited them to anyway.