Pontiac GTO

midwesttrader

Wasn't that a Reba McEntire song?

Seriously, if history repeats itself the '05s won't be selling for anything close to msrp for many months after they hit US shores. So all this discussion of msrp will be moot. It's always the market that sets the true selling price.

I think GM will only irritate potential buyers by delaying '05 production and withholding pricing info. As usual they have painted themselves into a corner.

Around here dealer advertised pricing is back up to msrp less the $3500 GMAC rebate so they are obviously attempting to recover some of the lost profit from the September fire sale and as you mentioned they may know they won't get more cars until January.

yzfr1n

At this stage of the game anyone who pays more than 26K for a 04 GTO is making a huge mistake, 5 months from now a used 04 GTO with anything more than 5000 miles on it won’t be selling for more than 19-20K. As stated before “it’s the market that determines the true selling price”.

Go to Pontiac.com and check the inventory lists, the selection is still great, dealers have tons of em. At the rate the GTOs are moving the selection will still be pretty good in January but they will start to move more quickly as soon as the 05s are out because the incentives are going to go up even higher than the current $3500 rebate and low interest rates.

Anyone at GM or at a Pontiac dealership that thinks they are going to raise the price or make higher profits than in September on 04 GTOs has a naïve business sense. The 05s will not be selling at MSRP for long, maybe the first 3.

rjs200240

My local dealer has a W40 car in now, so I'm curious about it. Has anyone seen one? Is it a metallic paint, or pearl, or darker, or what? I think the GTO is neat and I'm a sucker for red so I figure it's time I really saw one. I'm not really in the market for one, but they are pretty appealing.

Is the W40 available with a red interior? I get the impression it is not available with anything but black. Is the silver dash insert instead of the red gauges? If so, I guess red seats would look kind of dumb.

Edit: Oh, does anyone have a car that originall came with 225's vs the 245's? Did they ride better or worse or accelerate worse or anything like that? Just curious, it seemed weird to change tire sizes in the middle of a model year.

hammen2

Hi RJS, from another Aurora fan.

The W40/pulse red is closer to a metallic red than the bright, arrest-me red (Torrid Red). Someone described it as a little pearlescent. Here's a Monaro in this color:



I believe the dash gauges and trim/stitching are silver, but no other color options for the interior.

I'm not aware of any GTO coming with 225's on them - all 245/17" stock, except for maybe those cars where a dealer has changed the rims/tires.

Hope this helps,

--Robert

rjs200240

I got the 225 tire size from the GM Model Information Guide's distribution updates:

Week of 1/26/2004
Effective 1/26/2004, the following changes will be made to the Vehicle Order Guide:

    * Exterior section-Deleted (QWN) Tires, P225/50R17-93W, blackwall.
    * Exterior section-Added "(QWZ) Tires, P245/45ZR17-95W, blackwall" as standard equipment on GTO.

Maybe that was before they actually started being built? I thought the press cars had 225 tires on them...

That shot you put up looks similar to this one on Edmunds:

rjs200240

Sorry if this got posted already, I follow this forum a fair bit, but not religiously. Here are two pictures of the 2005 GTO from www.wieck.com's public archives:





Also, it appears there will be a hood-scoop delete option, as well as GM Service Parts Operations body kit options on black, red, and silver cars.

coolhandluke

Does anyone know where there is a barbados blue six speed? I live in Indiana and the GTO site only allows 25 matches a pop. It doesn't look for specific cars. Thanks to whomever finds it !

hammen2

...is your friend:

http://www.gmbuypower.com

You can play with entering different zip codes. What REALLY helps is when you find a dealership with no GTO's. You can then get the first 50 GTO's at the closest dealerships to that location. If you really want to have fun, you can edit the URL in your browser, changing the zip code, and then you can find more.

Or, you can stop in at a friendly dealer and have them do a locate.

What's a zip close to you?

--Robert

coolhandluke

Thanks for the tip Hammen2, I have located one and I'm waiting for a quote. I should know the ballpark figure in a few minutes... THANKS ! P.S. Is it true about the 2 $500 dollar coupons the dealer can use for when they are in tight negotiations?

hammen2

GM gives the dealership only a certain number of those coupons. When they're gone, they're gone.

You should be able to get the car at invoice price (use Edmunds to look that up).

Figure 2 of the coupons (I have heard of some dealerships using 3 but I don't know if that's possible). Then there's the $3500 GMAC financing bonus and the low finance rates (if you qualify).

Hope this helps,

--Robert

coolhandluke

Thanks again! I've already gotten my financing approved, so any chance the $3500 will grow any larger?

qbrozen

there's always a chance. but, then again, there is always a chance that number could go lower. Believe it or not, there is a certain point when the factory ceases rebates on a particular car. Once the cars are all out of factory inventory and on dealer floors, I think the factory is less inclined to offer rebates. Its all a crapshoot, really, and nothing is set in stone. The real question is, are you happy with the current deal? If yes, then get the car and enjoy it and don't look back.

hammen2

Since you want the (rare) Barbados color, as qbrozen said, if you're happy with the deal, get it now (especially with the dealer certificates being in limited supply).

If this were a red or black car (among the most common colors), you might think of waiting. But, with that color combo, and value certificates, if you get a deal you're happy with, by all means, go for it!

--Robert

gtopete

The stock GTO is great ride. The engine is strong, solid gear box and the best interior GM has made to date. As with all muscle cars, more power and more rubber always make it better. As I needed a car with four seats and a big ground pounding V8 my options were limited.

I bought a GTO and added a few modifications. I love my GTO.

.

sputterguy

This is what I think after driving a GTO for 3 months and 2500 miles.

Milage: I seem to be getting between 14 and 15 mpg locally. I would have liked higher mpg but I certainly don't baby it.

Looks: I never cared that much for how it looked, I got it for the drive train. But it has grown on me and I really like it now. Except for that silly looking thing mounted on the trunk.

Interior: Well, it could be a little roomier. Don't drop anything between the seats and the center console. And no deadpedal? What's up with that? The worst thing about the car though are the vents and knobs and buttons of the climate control. And only three temperature settings. I guess that's punishment for paying so little for the GTO here in the States. Speaking of which, I think I'm paying too much for my lease. It's based on a selling price of $29k which I thought was good but now I'm reading about guys getting theirs for $26k. I'm not complaining. It is a well built, high quality car and totally fun to drive. Back to the air conditioner, regardless of the controls, it puts out the coldest air I have ever felt in a car.

Personally, I wish it had 18" wheels. 17's are certainly adequate. But 18" would help out with all that power. Now next year with 400 hp it's going to need 18" wheels. I think it's a serious mistake not to have them.

And lastly, I wish it was called a Holden Monaro. Then there wouldn't be these postings about how it's not a real GTO, or its a something on steroids or whatever. It would only be a well built performance car, take it or leave it.

Anyway, that's what I think and feel about owning a GTO.

ua01682

I own an 04 GTO too. The car looks far better in person then pictures. The climate control is just fine for me. the interior is very nice.

Holden has been selling a "GTO" model for years down under but it is not the model currently imported by Pontiac (Monaro CV8). I personally like the Holden logo, so I think it would look cool on the front grill...

white6

After a month with my new GTO, this is my list of hits and misses:
Hits: Great torque, good throttle response, looks stealthy, doesn't get alot of attention from others (including cops), nicely styled and executed interior, great seats, decent ergonomics, Great Torque (worth mentioning twice).
Misses: Cheesy rear wing, retro-styled wheels on a contemporary-styled car, less than inspiring brakes (spongy pedal that is improving with miles), low-rent HVAC controls (Monaro gets much nicer electronic climate control), red faced gauges with hard to read typeface, lack of dead pedal (I made one myself; drastic improvement), minimal headroom (I'm 6-3), poor gas mileage (not unexpected), some poor paint quality in spots, ridiculous use of metallic in black paint (just makes it look dusty when it's clean and potentially increases complexity of body repairs down the line).
All in all, worth the deal I made ($295/month for 24 months, nothing down) and is a fun to drive, decent sized car. And did I mention it has great torque?

coolhandluke

I went and got my GTO yesterday. It's been raining all weekend, so no chance to really enjoy it...Yep, it has great torque.

jbm

Hi gang,

I finally saw a 2004 GTO (in person) this weekend, at the long island auto show.

My immediate thoughts (disclaimer: I didn't drive it) is that the car is lacking somewhat in extras and appearance - hopefully the 2005 will lick this problem with the hood scoop, dual exhaust, sunroof, etc. My impression in sitting in the car was that it's a 'stripper' - not enough nicities and extras to balance the car. I didn't like the matte finish on the wheels, would prefer chrome. And the color had to be the worst one available - a metallic medium blue (yuk) with blue leather interior. I really wanted to like this car - and probably would have been won over if I drove it, but if I were a prospective buyer I'd definitely wait for a leftover/slightly used *2005* model.

-jbm

ua01682

The IBM blue on blue combination is rare and is well liked by some. One can always buy a car of a different color and aftermarket wheels. Hood scoops? If that your thing so be it!

If one compares the GTO interior to GMs offerings I think it's just fine. I don't think 200watt/6CD/10 speaker, automatic lights/foglights standard, 8-way all leather power seats w/ lumbar support, traction control, color keyed interior/guages w/ DIC, fully independend suspension, tremec 6 speed trans, etc. "stripped".

My opinion - at about $300/month for an '04 on a 24mo lease I think the complaints are trivial.

sputterguy

Congratulations Coolhand, I'm sure you will have many miles of driving pleasure ahead of you. Just because its raining doesn't mean you can't have fun. In the rain you can spin your wheels without burning up your tires. And there's no screeching to attrack Johnny Law. Have a nice day and please drive carefully...

jbm

Hi ua01682 , I went back and looked at the photos I took of it, actually I stand corrected - I find the blue quite handsome now. Although i would still wait for the 2005 for lots of reasons - more power, more goodies and let pontiac work out the kinks on the 2004. Anyway I agree with you that anyone getting their hands on a GTO now, with all the incentives, is getting a great car for a great deal.

ua01682

Hi jbm,
I hear you on the kinks, the DIC never worked right on mine and was replaced. The dealers still deliver the car w/ 60psi in the tires etc. Maybe I'll see you in an '05 sometime!

hpmctorque

...looks considerably better from the pics than the '04. It'll be interesting to see if sales improve.

exzur

http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0405_odd/

Excerpt from the above website;
“The Players
Mercedes-Benz's fast and elegant CLK55 AMG bases for $71,920 and includes a ton of technology, creature features, and performance. Pontiac's reborn GTO offers a similar-size and similar-performing package that also comes well-equipped, but starts at just $33,495.
The Game
We compare these two seemingly incomparable cars to see how they're different and, just as important, how they're not. Can you get the same go for half the dough?”

It appears to me, the GTO is almost equal if not superior to the CLK55 for less than half the price. I don’t know if the MB price of $71,920 can be negotiated, but I am sure the Pontiac’s $33,495 price tag can be reduced by $7,000 more or less.

Don’t get annoyed by the constant appearance of the GTO commercial blocking your view. Lack of advertisement is not the reason for the GTO failure as some of you claim. In fact it could over advertisement.

From the info on the above website, and the fact that the GTO is in the neighborhood of $7,000 reduced price, still a good number of GTOs are sitting on dealers lot. WHY???

I know the reason, but some GTO fans may get annoyed.

midwesttrader

This article and your constant harping about the style of the GTO are both old news. I don't much care for the '04 styling either but enough already.

The reason for slow sales was initial dealer greed on price. That caused inventory to back-up. The market and GM have taken care of that issue and September sales reflect this.

I don't know where you live, but in St Louis GTO print and TV advertising is spotty at best. You seem to not realize that marketing involves more than just what you see on TV or read in the paper or car mags. For example; how much for msrp, when to launch the car, what content will it have, what colors to make, etc. In that regard GM has botched the marketing of the GTO and continues to do so.

ua01682

The styling grew on me. Took some in-person time. I drove one. We bought it. No complaints. I have been in car clubs and motorsports for years. Everyone's got an opinion. I wonder how many more people would buy a GTO if it was styled the way "exzur would propose..."? Impossible to quantify and frankly a waste of time to speculate. Opinions don't equal sales. Ford ate it on the TBird which looks great to me(not a propular opinion?). The 05stang looks good in GT trim but hey it's got a low output V6 sibling that shares the same look. What's that, another v6 stang? No, it's a GT. Oh. Looks great!

At this point I am glad the GTO is a bit "rare". I enjoy it when someone admires the car like twice last night. It means they are not admiring a styling cue or fancy "wing" or something. They know its a GTO w/ an LS1. And frankly, most "on the road" looks are from the rear end since most cars don't keep up. :-)

nb2169

Although you may not like exzur's harping on the styling of the GTO, I believe exzur is right about styling being the greatest reason it is not selling well. GM should have made the GTO a clean sheet project and designed it with American styling cues instead of rebadging a Holden Monaro. As an employee of GM, it pains me to see them continuously trying to save themselves money by doing everything on the cheap, instead of trying to be cutting edge and pleasing the customer. I believe GM makes a reasonably reliable vehicle. However, our styling is oh-hum boring. Our corporate leadership is going to have to take some stylistic risks if we are ever going to get out of the basement sales wise.

hammen2

GM is making a clean-sheet design GTO. Problem is, we won't see that until MY 2007 or 2008.

I don't think importing the Monaro as the new GTO was done because it's cheap (because building them in Australia and shipping them to the U.S. sure isn't). It was done because it would allow the car to be sold here quickly. Other than things like improved interior plastics, meeting U.S. safety regulations, and changing the grille/fascia/badging, not much could be done to change the looks of the car.

Besides, the original GTO's looks changed on an almost-yearly basis. So, too, will the new GTO's (look at the hood scoops and the rear fascia for the '05's).

I think the styling of the new GTO appeals more to a younger crowd (i.e. the sport compact/tuner crowd), versus the "old-school" GTO buyer. Problem is, the younger crowd doesn't have the $$$ to pay $33k or even $26k for this car. And the "traditional" buyer wants a car with retro styling, but, as evidenced by the Thunderbird, New Beetle, and PT Cruiser, that only works for a short period of time (it will be interesting to see how the new Mustang is selling in 3-4 years).

Lutz and GM really thought they would sell all 18k cars with no trouble, hence a lack of real advertising/marketing, at least initially. And the dealers, who tried to stick early buyers with a $5k-$10k markup over MSRP, and who wouldn't allow test-drives without a signed purchase agreement, didn't help either (turned off many potential buyers). Launching a RWD sports coupe in the entire U.S. in December/January (middle of winter) wasn't the most brilliant move, either (probably should have focused on the southern states first, and put cars into the midwest/northeast in late March/early April).

I'm not saying styling of the car isn't an issue, but it's not the only issue why the car's not selling. For those who object to the car over styling but haven't driven one, I can only tell you to drive it - I know many who have, and ended up leaving the dealership with one. Yes, it is a great car, and, especially at the current incentives, the "bang-for-the-buck" is off the charts... and, if you don't like the styling, you can change it, and make your car more unique.

Just my 2 cents,

--Robert

corkfish

I like the styling of the GTO. In fact, now that it appears you can buy these for around $26,000, I kind of regret buying my Forester XT. How many muscle cars are out there that a 50 year old guy can drive and not feel silly or attract a lot of attention? Pontiac finally got it right with the styling by keeping it clean and simple and everybody complains that it's to tame. Keep the boy racer wings and cladding, give me a sleeper any day. I just hope Pontiac doesn't give in and start making these things look silly cause I still might buy one in a couple of years.

ua01682

Corkfish & hammen2 - thanks for the insights.

white6

The styling is one of the things I like about the car. Doesn't look like it was drawn by a high school freshman in study hall! Only negative is the cheesy wing. Of course, without the "wing" there would be even more negative comments by those who wouldn't (or couldn't) buy this car anyway. As far as GM not taking styling risks; what about the SSR (ick) or Aztek (no comment) or CTS ("angry kitchen appliance"). What they need isn't styling risks but styling HITS! Different doesn't mean better. I'm driving an Impala rental right now; what's up with the interior in this thing? 15,000 parts (looks like some kind of ill-fitting jigsaw puzzle) that don't really fit together and doesn't have any cohesive design at all. For a successful design that is contemporary without being "trendy" take a look at the Porsche 911.....

hammen2

I dislike the spoiler on my GTO. Quite frankly, it is quite a bit "boy-racer" and it gets in the way of rearward visibility (makes every car seem like it's tailgating you). It's not hard to remove it, and unplug the brake light wire, but then you are left with the unsightly holes in the trunk lid. I am waiting for an aftermarket ducktail-type spoiler (similar to the ones on the HSV cars - http://www.hsv.com.au) which has mounting holes which fit the factory ones.

I agree that GM styling could stand to be improved. However, look at the later-model Olds' (Aurora, Intrigue, Alero) - they were the best-styled of the GM cars of their time, but they didn't sell. I don't think styling was the issue there. Styling can be a polarizing issue (I happen to feel the best car GM's designed in the last 10 years or so was the first-gen Aurora, but I know some don't like that design at all. I am biased, I still have mine as my "winter car" :-). Improvements, especially in interior design and quality (I have had an Impala rental, so I know what you mean), need to happen. GM does keep cutting corners, probably due to high overhead/infrastructure/health care expenses. It's becoming a vicious cycle (market share decreasing, costs increasing)...

--Robert

joelgto

After 6 months of driving past the Pontiac dealer I finally broke down once the $3500 rebate hit the GTO sticker. Take off another $2500 for a GM supplier discount and whammo, I could not say no.

This is a drivers car. It is tight, fast, quiet, and not overdone with accesories I will never use. My only complaint is that the drivers seat does not have a memory and getting out of this growler is even more difficult with the absence of a grab handle.

Other than that, it is a great sunny day, dry pavement machine. No, I did not sell the Yukon, it sees the road when it's wet, snowy, or cloudy. The Goat gets the place of honor in the garage while the Yukon freezes in the drive.

exzur

In Australia, the asking price for a comparably equipped Holden Monaro is US$45,000 more or less. In America, that same Monaro, with the GTO nameplate can be bought for around $26,000. Add the expenses to transport the car from Australia, plus the GTO rebadging. My estimate is, the GTO is $20,000 cheaper.

My guess is at $26,000 GTO price, GM profit is very thin or GM could already be loosing money. If the price of the 2005 GTO goes down to this level or lower, I would not be surprised if GM put the GTO on the chopping block. The irony is at already very low price, Don Davis Pontiac in Amherst, NY still has four GTOs begging to be sold. The last time, I checked, David Pontiac in Niagara Falls, NY has the same number of cars sitting on their lots for many months.

If someone will tell me, at this price or lower, the GTO is still profitbale, I feel sorry for the OZs, GM is ripping them off.

Someone said, the GTO is rare. Endangered, as in extinction, is the more appropriate word.

midwesttrader

"GM does keep cutting corners, probably due to high overhead/infrastructure/health care expenses. It's becoming a vicious cycle (market share decreasing, costs increasing)..."

Add their heavy emphasis on the SUV/truck market segment the last several years. With gas prices sky high and that market shrinking by the day, you've got a recipe for disaster.

midwesttrader

Your constant comparisons of the Australian vs. US prices for this car are invalid because the content is different.

The Aussie car market is not comparable to ours due to geography, import tariffs, and a number of other factors. Do your homework.

Your guesses regarding GM's profit or lack of are just that guesses. This car had minimal development costs, and was decontented for the US. The cost for shipping is spread over hundreds (thousands?) of cars per shipload.

nb2169

hammen2- I agree that producing the GTO in Australia and shipping it to our shores isn't cheap, but it is cheaper than either building a new factory or retooling an existing facility to produce a new platform. This iteration of GTO should not have been released until the clean sheet model was ready for production. I just hope the clean sheet model isn't another design put together by a commitee such as the Aztek.

corkfish- I agree with you that the wings and the cladding on alot of GM's vehicles give them the "Tonka" look. However, I see no reason why a performance car can't have a lithe and muscular look. The present model exudes neither of the above,and(IMHO)it should.

white6- I stand corrected. I should have said stylictic "HITS" versus "risks". It has always facinated me how GM can come up with a group of concept vehicles, some good looking and some ugly, and without fail choose the ugly ones to produce. Or even worse, come out with a handsome concept such as the original Lacrosse and rape it into a production model that looks like a late 90's or early Y2K Ford Taurus. I suspect the present design was cheaper for GM to produce, so the customer be damned.

exzur

My estimate is the Monaro costs $20,000 more than the GTO. Even if I cut in half, and drop the difference to $10,000 my comparisson still makes sense.. Since you are doing your homework, if you can prove to me that the geographical location , import tariffs, and a number of other factors you mention could cost more than $10,000 per GTO or MONARO, then my comparisson is invalid and I will stop posting on this forum.

I could be wrong, I don’t see the GTO as a rare commodity, but as an endangered specie

sputterguy

Right on dude. It's nice you have another car to drive in bad weather. Lucky for me I have to drive it all year long.

I wish there was a quick release to scoot the seat forward forward instead of waiting for the motor to move it. It's a little tricky getting in and out of which is one of the reasons I think it could be a little roomier. I never used the handles in my GTP but my wife did and she keeps reaching up now and there's nothing there. I guess GM saved a couple bucks there.

Enjoy the new car and feel free to pat yourself on the back. You got a great deal on a great car. By the way, what color and tranny did you get?

hammen2

It's obvious we have a "hater" here - someone who doesn't like the car, but still reads and posts, trying to get a reaction from people. Some folks would call this trolling... strongly suggest we all just ignore this person's posts, and maybe they'll go away.

I'm not trying to "censor" the board, or to restrain discussion (I'm not a host), but the continual negative, inflammatory, and repetetive messages get old. I think the best bet (what I plan to do) is just ignore 'em - and I'd strongly encourage the same from others.

--Robert

hammen2

nb2169 - as an employee of GM, you are probably aware of the plans to convert at least one, maybe two factories to produce large RWD sedans and coupes, based upon the Zeta chassis which Holden is doing the engineering for. I have heard that the primary plant is likely to be the Oshawa plant which presently makes the Impala/Grand Prix/Lacrosse, with the Poletown plant possibly being the second one.

I don't really think it was about saving money as much as it was about saving time. The GTO has Bob Lutz's fingerprints all over it. Lutz is a big believer in having a "halo" or "image" car to show the future of the brand. Witness the Viper at Dodge... well, that's the GTO's place at Pontiac. Since changing the perception of GM cars is paramount to turning the company around, that's why the decision was made to import the Monaro as the GTO. I would have probably done the same thing if I were in his shoes - changing the impressions of a brand can't wait until 2007 or 2008 - witness how much Pontiac sales have declined since the late 1990's. Without changing the perception, the brand would be finished, just like Buick and Saturn are troubled now, and Olds is gone. Look at how much doing the "special edition" Bonneville GXP has increased sales of the base car (so much so that they're now moving the GXP styling to all trim levels, which I think is a mistake - though I'm no fan of the previous Bonnie styling).

I, too, hope they don't add too much retro to the next-gen GTO. The Woodward Edition isn't bad, but I'd prefer they not take that any further. Regardless, my next vehicle after the GTO is likely to be the Zeta-based RWD sedan Pontiac will be selling in 2008 or 2009 (probably Grand Prix though I've heard rumors of G8 or even Bonneville)...

I think the Lacrosse just represents a "play-it-safe" design for Buick's conservative customers. I personally think it won't lose them customers, but it won't gain them any, either. Maybe Lutz feels they can steal those diehard Taurus owners who don't like the Passat-wannabe Five Hundred :-)

--Robert
who thinks maybe this discussion should be continued over in News and Views

zillis

Can someone explain how the Launch mode works? In laymans terms - how does it pull the car down?

ocmike3

For those who like most everything else about the GTO but the styling - well $5k-$7k can buy a lot of styling modifications. If that isn't good enough, go buy something else and quit whining. (no offense intended)

exzur

Yesterday, as I was passing David Pontiac Chevy, etc. on Niagara Falls Blvd, I notice a standout, stylish, handsome looking car in front of the dealership. It’s a silver with black interior 2005 Corvette. It’s awesome. My english is not that good, that’s why I could not find the words to describe this car. Not too far away are the GTOs, sitting side by side with the rest of the Pontiac cars. The GPs and the new G6s has more standout, noticeable, stylish look.

If GM can only make the GTO half as good looking and include some of the vette DNAs, I may be sway to acquire a GTO. It‘s two GTOs for the price of one Corvette.

Problem is, the vette is going to break my bank account

exzur

The irony is, these two cars has the same powertrain(engine, transmission). Both has four wheel independent suspension. The interior of the GTO is not that far off the vette. The big difference is ----------------------------. You know what I mean.

sputterguy

Has anybody actually gotten this problem fixed. I have that problem and the last time I had the car in for servicing, they were supposed to fix it. They said they tightened the bolts. Well, I still have the 'thunk'. And from what I read in LS1GTO, the TSB says to replace a crossmember or something like that, not just tighten bolts. I'd like to be able to tell the dealer that other people have gotten their 'thunk' fixed. Any personal experiences would be appreciated.

ua01682

I thought everyong knew that the GTO was a rebadged Holden Monaro CV8 from Australia? Let's see, you can get a Corvette motor and transmission in an popular Aussie muscle car designed by Holden/HSV and you can have it for under 26k w/ nice leather interior and it doesn't look anything like GM N.A. "cheap" low-end interiors.

Ooops. Let's rag on the looks instead...

corkfish

Again. The looks are fine with me. I would have bought a Dodge Neon SRT in a heartbeat if they'd made it look like a regular Neon. I'm in my 40's and there's no way I'm pulling into work in a rice rocket. They lost my business. If they were smart they'd make all the tack on wings and scoops an option and charge extra for it. I'm an adult and don't want to draw a lot of attention to myself, but I still like the performance.

sputterguy

I replied to this post before but I guess the server was down. So I will try again.

By your own figures the GTO is way cheaper here in the US. So what's the problem? In another post you have a link to an article comparing the GTO and a high performance Mercedes and the GTO compares very favorably. And for less than half the price of the Mercedes. In your latest post you acknowledge you can get two GTOs for the price of one Corvette. With the same power train you get nearly the same performance, a roomier and probably nicer interior, and better handling. And as you say, it is rare. And that makes it more valuable.

A Pontiac salesman couldn't come up with better reasons to buy a GTO. If anyone out there is a little undecided you've probably convinced them to go ahead and get one. And why don't you too. Trade in that Aztek. You'll have more fun and get a lot more compliments. And you won't have anything to complain about anymore. What do you say? Go for it dude. You can't go wrong.