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Pontiac GTO



  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    I'll second valhs post. Although I still suspect the GTO engine is a bit stronger than the standard Corvette engine (not just the tad more torque peak either). At 3700 lbs it's on the heavy side though.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,461
    the Goat will compare to the CTS-V. The Cad will prolly have more stuff on it (which will satisy Riez), be a little heavier and inevitably more expensive and a tad slower.

    Take your choice, spend more for luxuries or go faster w/o them for less.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    andys120... I haven't advocated for luxury. For example, I don't want the 6-disc player. Give me a simplier 1-disc in-dash. I'd prefer cloth seats. I despise automatic transmissions and navigation systems. Rather have good manual seat over a power seat. But I do want standard side airbags and seatbelt pretensioners. What good is it if you have a great car and some drunk or idiot plows into the side of your car? And it should at least have Xenon HID headlights as an option.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    valhs... The lack of side airbags and seatbelt pretensioners appear confirmed by both the brochure and GM's media information: - - _GTO.pdf

    See the top of page 3, "Safety and quality".

    When you look at the past 5 years and at all of GM's marques, GM has NOT been at the forefront of passive safety equipment, esp. side airbags and pretensioners.
  • diablo4diablo4 Posts: 40
    how do i put a picture in my message not the web address.
  • theicemantheiceman Posts: 736
    You previous posing of this question was answered in post no. 141.

    Good luck.
  • diablo4diablo4 Posts: 40
    what is a URL.
  • theicemantheiceman Posts: 736

    URL ("unique resource locator") was somebody's idea of a joke - early Internet parlance that stuck around. Obviously not with everyone.

    Essentially, it's the web address - like "". You have to put the web address where your image file is located in the expression [img src="http://www....."] (remember to replace the "[]" with "<>" - if I used "<" and">" in the above example, you wouldn't be able to read the example because the browser would present it as a link, not code.

    If it still doesn't work for you, find a site with html tips - something like:

    Good Luck
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    Saw this on the car connection: 3&n=156
    "Will The Goat Get a New Skin?

    Is a new, more macho version of the Pontiac GTO already under development, even before the reborn version of the legendary &#147;goat&#148; reaches showrooms? Inside sources tell TheCarConnection a revised GTO, more angular than the jellybean car due out for &#146;04, could hit the road with tires spinning in time for the 2006 model-year. &#147;We do understand&#148; the criticism leveled at the Australian import&#146;s styling, Pontiac General Manager Lynn Meyers concedes. Aftermarket hood scoops and other accessories could be quick, bolt-on improvements, she suggests. While Meyers won&#146;t directly address the issue of an all-new design, she broadly hints, &#147;It always was in our thinking that we would do other things relative to appearance. It always was in our thinking, from Day One.&#148;"
  • scmike1scmike1 Posts: 10
    ...the 2004 GTO. Thinking about the 6 spd Impulse Blue with Blue interior or Quicksilver with Red interior. I think the Quicksilver with the Blue would be sweet.

    Getting a kick out of the purists who are griping about a car they haven't even driven or listened to yet. Would have liked to see tail lights reminiscent of the late 60's Firebirds.

    For those of you who have placed an order are you able to tell us the price? Thanks.
  • obiwanobiwan Posts: 57
    From what I have read, the contract to produce GTOs in Australia is for 3 years (2004-2006 model years). I wouldn't expect to see the new GTO until 2007. We might start seeing pics of it in 2006 though.
  • rqcrqc Posts: 95
    URL = Uniform Resource Locator aka a web site address.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Check out pages 30-31 of the September 2003 issue of Motor Trend. Has two sketches and an article on the next generation GTO. Could happen as early as 2007 or as late as 2010. Claims "Holden is in the midst of shifting is design philosophy to match GM Europe's." Says there are two possibilities: "an all-American design with more expressive sheetmetal and a styling philosophy sprung from the upcoming Grand Am replacement" or a "Holdenesque GTO, with GM-Euroe styling".
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,461
    think the Holden-based styling is a tad bland. I'd rather see that than some overstyled "all-American" design. The early GTOs were fairly subtle by '72 or so they'd gotten rather silly with scoops, graphics and wings galore.

    Put me down for "Holdenesque GM-Euro".

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Motor Trend (8/03, p. 89) discusses the upcoming '04 GTO. Couple nice pictures. Very interesting discussion about the GM Peformance Division "toying" with the idea of building a limited-edition super GTO, "possibly to be named the Judge". Might come with Gen III V8 at 400 hp, more aggressive suspension, sportier seats, and a functional cold-air intake system. If done, likely only to be 6-speed manual. MT wants it. So do I!
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,461
    "The Judge" sounds a bit dated considering the many people who were not even alive when Laugh-In was a hit TV show.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    andys120... But there are a lot of people alive who remember what the old Pontiac GTO Judge stood for in the late '60s and early '70s. Always nice to see Detroit try to recover heritage.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    valhs... Thanks for the information. Too bad about the side airbags. How a $35,000 car today can come without them is beyond me. A complete deal killer for me. Hope they put 'em on in '05! I won't compromise safety for performance. There shouldn't be a trade off. You can have a safe high performance vehicle.
  • gb7gb7 Posts: 7
    While I know this is not a place for cry babies, I just didn't know where else to go.

    I drive a 2004 silver 6M with 5700 miles on it, and I got rear-ended around 11 PM last night by a DUI driver. There was nothing I could do. I was waiting for the light to turn green, with a 2005 BMW M3 in front of me, when I heard the tires screeching a second before impact, I'd say at around 40 mph maybe less. I judge the impact by the bumper falling off. Simply said, the GTO took a hit front and back. I know I should be thankful I wasn't hurt but I am so depressed.

    Random thoughts -

    Reading stuff about all parts being from australia and taking a long time, and the chassis not compatible with anything GM makes here, does anyone have any thoughts about the local bodyshop repair capabilities? You know, like straightening out the frame? Are there any good questions to ask the bodyshop guys before I hand the car over? Will the GTO make it out of this mess?

    I thank the engineers who moved the gas tank away from the fenders. I also think the car absorbed the impact very well. The spare tire convexed upward, forming a hump on the trunk flooring. The rear glass did not shatter or break. However, I am curious why the airbag did not deploy. I wonder how strong the impact have to be before the airbag goes off??

    Drinking and driving - what a senseless thing to do.
  • obiwanobiwan Posts: 57
    It seems a little strange to me that you would let something like side impact air bags kill a deal for you. So many cars these days don't have them yet and many are over $35K. Why so focused on something like that? And if you are that focused, why not get an ordinary passenger car with many more safety features than the GTO?
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    obiwan... How much is your life worth? Does there need to be a tradeoff between decent standard safety equipment and performance? How many 4-seat cars priced over $30,000 don't come with side airbags in 2004? (Thinking all, or nearly all, are standard.) I'm having trouble thinking of one without. Mustang Cobra or GT convertible?

    Don't know about you, but I have a wife and two kids. I want them to survive a crash and I, too, want to survive. Side impact crashes are some of the most dangerous. Just ask someone who has been t-boned or t-boned someone else. T-boning often happens when some drunk runs a red light. Or someone not paying any attention doesn't see the light change. Truly dangerous and hard to stop occurrence.

    Comparable cars like G35 Coupe or BMW 3 Series Coupe come standard with side airbags. Not to mention Cadillac CTS, Lincoln LS, Lexus GS400, etc. Why can't GTO?
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    davbo... I don't drive my cars on race tracks or drag strips. Drive 'em on roads with all sorts of intersections, lane configurations, drivers, etc. Safety is an important aspect. Thinking about 35,000 people die each year in automobile accidents. Neither I nor my family want to be a part of this statistic.

    How many 4-seat cars (sedans or coupes) with MSRPs over $30,000 are not available with side airbags? GTO is one. Any others besides the Mustangs I mentioned above? Are all those marques and models, and their buyers, just worrying 'bout nothin'? If you get hit on side, would you rather have the side airbags or not?

    Safety cannot and should not be sacrificed for performance. One can have both. My '98 540i6 is a perfect example.

    GM dropping ball on GTO. Does it even come with front seat seatbelt pretensioners?
  • theicemantheiceman Posts: 736
    I agree with riez that they should be standard. But they're not. So you buy or don't buy.

    My current ride (an '00 Bonneville) has side airbags - but in the front only. That won't help my kids much in the event we get T-boned or simply just roll down an embankment.

    I chose the Bonnie partly because of its phenomenal safety rating but it wasn't the only factor. As was (sort of) said earlier, a heavy vehicle without side airbags is safer than a compact with them. That being said, the Holden Commodore without side airbags did okay on the side impact tests in Australia. I don't know if the Monaro has been tested and if it's results will be similar.

    By the way, if you get T-boned, why is the sobriety of the driver an issue?

  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    theiceman... You wrote, "if you get T-boned, why is the sobriety of the driver an issue?" I bring that up because so many people seem to believe that they can avoid various types of accidents. A great car can help you avoid accidents. Great brakes, steering, and handling can help avoid an accident if you see what is coming or have time to react. But it is hard to avoid a drunk driver who goes the wrong way down interstates or who fails to stop at stop signs and stop lights. Missing stop lights/signs is often the cause of t-boning. Then there isn't much between the front of the other driver's car and your head & chest. Head/chest airbag(s) can help dramatically.
  • theicemantheiceman Posts: 736
    I meant it more as a joke than anything. Regardless of how an accident occured, a deployed air-bag typically means there was a collision you couldn't avoid. I suppose that the existence of inebriated drivers makes that collision statistically more likely. But so do a lot of other things - chief among them driver distraction.

    Notwithstanding any of that, I do take my safety seriously and still wouldn't dream of passing on the GTO because it didn't have side airbags. Although I will agree with you that it should have them - simply because of its price range and that it's a new model. Still looking good to me though.

    Funny that, huh?
  • obiwanobiwan Posts: 57
    I've lived all my life without getting t-boned. My father is well over 60 and has never gotten t-boned. My grandfather lived to be 91 years old without getting t-boned.

    No one in my family got t-boned until my grandmother, who shouldn't have been driving anyway, pulled out into traffic. However, both my grandparents were completely uninjured and that was long before even front airbags were standard.

    I don't know a single person who was in an accident that would have not been injured (or just not as severely) had they had side airbags. And I know people all over the country.

    How often are there accidents where the side air bag will make a difference? How much of a percentage of total accidents do they make up? How likely is an individual to get into one of these accidents? Could it still happen to me? Yes. Is it possible for me to win the lottery or get struck by lightning as well? Yes. Is any event likely enough for me to worry about? No.

    I'm not going to go through life worrying about all the little things that might happen. Life is too short to spend it worrying. I don't want to miss out on all the great fun things that life has to offer.

    If you want to worry about accidents, then maybe you should consider abandoning all cars and just walk or take the bus.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Just for my own personal edification, can you name me other 4-seat cars (sedans or coupes) with MSRPs over $30,000 that do not have side airbags? Just curious. All I can come up with is Mustang Cobra (& Mustang GT convertible). Am I missing any other car?

    davbo... You wrote, "Who would have thunk that the GTO forum would have degenerated into an Air Bag forum...Air bag threads are few and far between". Absolutely correct!!! Only reason airbags came up is Pontiac chose not to put them into a MY04 $35,000 high performance coupe. Their absence is conspicuous and I won't be the only person to note this oversight. I can't wait to see the crash test results, esp. side impact. Shame on Pontiac.

    I'm a bit bummed. Saved about $3,000 in GM credit card rebate and the GTO is the only GM product that interests me (other than Corvette, but I need 4 seats).
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,461
    I'd like to say that if I owned a 540i/6-speed, as you say you do in your profile, I would have little interest in a GTO.

    Even an older 540i has to be light years ahead of the new Goat in everything except pure acceleration, particularly safety, handling and braking.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,942
    But his is a '98. Cars don't last forever. I can sort of see where he is coming from. I own a '98 T5 and am watching the market for something that might coax me out of it. The GTO looked promising. But now that its getting closer, its looking less and less likely to be what I thought it might be.

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,461
    to expect a GTO to replace something like either a T5 or a 540i. It's a different kind of car w different priority and a different appeal.

    Nothing against the Goat but a muscle car, even a neo-muscle car is not going to be as well rounded as a good Euro performance car. At least I wouldn't expect it to be. Maybe I'm prejudiced by what the GTO was.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

This discussion has been closed.