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Pontiac GTO
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Comments
I like the emblem they put on the flank that harks back to the original but I'd like to see a subtle pair of NACA ducts on the hood, not protruding '68-'70 scoops. I'd also like to see
wider tires and more aggressive fender flares and more definition in the grille.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Both were Phantom Black Metallic, one had a black interior, the other had a red interior. The car had throngs around it, mostly positive comments. In fact, the only people who didn't like it, were rednecks.
The car has quite a presence in person, in fact it's large, Buick Riviera or Grand National large. Nobody will confuse it with the current Grand Am coupe, the only other coupe Pontiac offers.
Overall quality is phenomenal. I ran my hands over the entire car, and pushed on it. The body is all metal, even the front clip and grille. I found no plastic parts or fiberglass. The paintjobs were flawless, and very rich. Phantom Black Metallic is very much like BMW's Cosmos Black.
The interior is is nicely assembled (damn near Honda quality), and the materials are top notch. Switches and buttons all have a nice feeling, with the exception of the climate control dails, they remind me somewhat of a first gen. Taurus, but that doesn't really bother me.
A third Quicksilver GTO was in the cruise itself driven by some GM employee and his family, the exhaust note is wicked, but lacks the hillbilly rapping sounds.
I think everyone interested in the car will be very impressed with it, me included. Here are some pictures I took,
http://www.ot2.cupofnoodles.com/trishield/wdcgto01.jpg
http://www.ot2.cupofnoodles.com/trishield/wdcgto02.jpg
http://www.ot2.cupofnoodles.com/trishield/wdcgto03.jpg
The 2004 is very much the modern interpretation of the original, a very clean, powerful performance coupe.
Both have horizontal stacked headlamps, twin port grilles, clean coupe bodies with chrome tipped exhausts, the 2004 is like the original car only fast forwarded 40 years and with today's Pontiac styling cues.
Like I said, the car looks very nice in appealing, sophisticated in the way that many high dollar foreign cars look. The very antithesis of the old Firechicken inside and out, but retaining the performance.
Hey they should design another version of Monaro for Buick and call it Wildcat. Or GNX
Looks even better up close.
Got any more?
I have more GTO pics I'll upload and share soon, stay tuned.
Kind of surprised that there haven't been more.
The car does have a nice stance to it and good presence.
I will probably be buying one in about 18 months.
Had an opportunity to buy a '70 GTO Judge in '83 for $2000 and bought a '83 Z28 instead.
Nobody said I was a rocket scientist.
LS1 motors get great gas mileage on the highway.
Better than a G35 more than likely.
The GTO is a bigger car than than the G35. With a bigger interior.
Don't get me wrong, I like the G35. It is one of the best looking cars on the road.
But when you come into a thread and throw a bunch of criticims around, you need to back them up with some facts or specs.
Anyway, two very different cars anyway.
Snakerbill - at least it's a true dual exhaust, or I guess you'd be happier with the single exhaust, Y pipe split in the back for "dual" outlets. Not that it's bad, but hey - the GTO's got the real thing.
The 6-speed manual really will be the only way to go for maximum GTO performance. Will be interesting to see if any car magazine even publishes a test of a 4-speed automatic GTO.
Z28s. I have owned 5. Yep, 5.
Currently own a '87 IROC LB9 5 speed, 3.45 rearend, 4 wheel disc car. 205K miles.
Lots of Fbody and LS1 experience on this thread.
Your Z28 is a auto so it does not pull down the big HWY numbers like the 6 speed cars do.
28 mpg HWY is not unheard of with these cars.
Like the G35 a lot. Looked at one yesterday with the new 2003.5 interior. Stunning car.
Gto weighs about 200 lbs more than G35.
High revving 3.5L V6 cant't hold a candle to a
the torque monster 5.7L LS1/6.
We also haven't talked much about the large rear seat area. This may be the GTO's ace in the hole.
It will help a lot of people justify the car.
Far more utility than the Fbod and Mustang. And the G35. Or any coupe I can think of save the Mercedes CLK at about 50K.
One would think that extra gears will help acceleration but it depends on the ratios and the spread.
Extra shifts can slow a car down.
Also '83 Monte Carlo SS w/ 3 speed auto was quicker in the quarter than the '84 with the 4 speed auto.
Even though 4 speed had a much deeper 1st gear.
But in most cases you are right a properly designed 5 speed auto should have the edge on a 4 speed with a deep 1 st gear and a wide space to 2nd.
Some, like the inefficient Infiniti 5 speed sap more hp than the GM/BMW unit.
And you could option a Camaro well into the 30K range.
And there was no ISS or any semblence of interior room in that car.
Many people bought the auto thinking it was
quick, because that is what the car mags said.
The autos also had much taller final drives.
I whacked many a Mustang in my '84 Z28 HO 5 speed.
Good to see the GTO will have similiar gearing and performance for both the auto and manual.
Mustang Cobra convertible is 37K
And we all know how crappy that interior is in comparison to the GTO's or G35's.
Intersting story on the Camaro. LS1 was introduced in '98 model year and had the cat cons up near the manifolds. Hump in passenger footwell was no longer needed.
GM didn't want to spend the money to retool the floorplan so they left the hump.
Looking forward to the GTO as the heir apparent to the fbods.
GM seriously needs to get back into performance.
I have had it with trucks and SUVs.
Wonder if it really isn't more a case of GM refuses to design and build one, prefering to stay behind the times?
Check out the October 2003 issue of Motor Trend. Has a comparison of the Chevy Silverado SS (6.0L V8) vs the Dodge Ram 1500 SLT Hemi (5.7L). Cheapskate GM uses a 4-speed automatic in a truck with an MSRP of $40,010 (as tested). DB-Chrysler uses a new 5-speed automatic in a truck with an MSRP of only $27,820 (as tested).
The Dodge 5-speed AT is being used with a 5.7L Hemi engine that produces 345 HP (@5400 RPMs) and 375 lb-ft of torque (@4200 RPMs). Those numbers seem close to the GTO.
Shame on GM for falling behind in AT technology. GM of Europe has been selling BMW 5-speed automatics for years. GM didn't decide to use one of their own sophisticated 5-speed ATs in USA until the recent Cadillac CTS. GM wonders why it loses market share?
And to top it all off, my TL-S' tranny broke after 6,100 miles.
It will have 4 gears below 1.00 and 2 overdrive gears.
Now that will provide some great acceleration.
They also have a 6 speed FWD transaxle they are developing with FOrd
just wanted to point out that my father's 2500HD diesel GMC pickup has an Allison-made 5-speed auto. Can that tranny be used on the LS1? No. But that statement above is still false. OK, back to your regularly scheduled discussion.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
1st 2.563 x 4.428 = 11.348964 overall
2nd 1.551
3rd 1.021
4th 0.653
5th 0.470 x 4.428 = 2.08116 overall
1st to 5th overall spread is a very good 5.45. Compare that to Camaro 4-speed AT.
You can't do this with a 4-speed.
Notice how your car gets great highway fuel economy with blistering acceleration? That is what good gearing and more gears can do.
Thinking GM used to make a decent 2-speed AT. Friend of mine had one in a '65 Impala. GM used to use it on a ton of powerful cars. Maybe GM should bring it back? Save them a few bucks?
My '96 Impala SS could've used a numerically lower 1st gear and a numerically lower final drive. She would've benefitted immensely from a 6-speed manual (or even 5-speed automatic).
Makes one wonder.
I still like it though.
of course, he still could have meant a CL.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I think the design of the GTO appeals more to the under-30 crowd than the 45+ group (which would prefer the GTO to be retro/resemble the GTO of old). I don't see many of the under-30 crowd having the $$$ to buy one at $33k, though...
--Robert
I love the idea of a four-seat vette (GTO), but am still on the fence, pricing and build quality being the primary issues. I drive a '98 Altima SE that has been bullet proof since the day I bought it. On the other hand, I also own a '97 Bonneville that has had numerous quality issues and recalls.
I'm resigned to waiting until there are some '04s on the lot for a while or waiting for the '05s and seeing what happens to the pricing then.
Gee, I'd actually like to drive one first before I buy come to think of it.
You have to rev the Subaru up and dump the clutch.
Do that 10-20 times and you will either have no clutch or there will be parts lying on the street.
The GTO has power all over the place and probalby only requires a 2500 rpm launch.
I can tell you that the Forester is NOT a comfortable car and is far from luxurious. I'm not knocking it. I think its a great bargain, but we are talking about 2 completely different animals with 2 completely different purposes.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
B4z - thank you. Yes, the GTO will be powerful from any situation - not just a trick launch. The pocket rockets are still quick from a roll, but nowhere near the "0 to" times. I find it amusing that these cars sometimes don't perform as well in later "comparison" tests with other cars either. The "first drive" models often test out faster. Hmmmm.
qbrozen - I think value is an issue. I can order a loaded '04 Mazda 6s for under $26k. Granted it has 130 less ponies under the hood, but it would have auto climate control, side air bags & curtains, real tires and some other goodies that the GTO does not. Is the GTOs extra power worth $8k more to me? I'm not so sure.
By the way, since they are building these cars right now isn't it about time to set firm pricing?
Cars that do all these things well and some of them very, very well indeed are those that we all lust for. Question is whether GM/Holden can bring it to America and make all the parts work together as a team.