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Pontiac GTO

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Comments

  • theicemantheiceman Posts: 736
    You might be. The Monaro is known as a fairly respectable handler too. The old GTO? Well, not exactly.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,942
    Being a car guy, I'm enticed by many different types of vehicles across the spectrum.

    I was just one breath away from buying a WRX and the only similarities between that and my Volvo are their 1/4 mile times and the fact that they both have 4 doors and turbos. They are nothing alike in any other way.

    What sparked my interest in the GTO is the good ole' reliable 5.7 along with a stick, 4 doors, and a potentially stellar all-around performer ... for a decent price. Euros may be great in many categories, but cheap they are not. Now that I've heard this price of $35K for the GTO, yes, my money will go elsewhere. For just a bit more I can get the S60R and give myself AWD along with Volvo comfort and safety (not that I always think about safety, but just throwing that in to relate to recent conversation).

    If GM could have come to market with a price of $26-$27K, then at least the argument against these Euro machines could be "hey, its $27K!!" But it doesn't even have that going for it.

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • theicemantheiceman Posts: 736
    I think the fact that it's a very limited production has enabled them to hike the price. Let's hope that the next generation is more down to earth - or has AWD as well.

    And side airbags of course.

    ;-P
  • After much initial enthusiasm about this car, GM has lost me again. I've talked to a couple of local dealers; one salesman sang the old msrp or the highway song and the other was clueless, telling me his sales manager would call me back (never did). I understand GM trying to maximize their profit on the initial run of these cars while they are hot, but treating potential customers with indifference is silly. I see a new/used G35 as a much better overall value.
  • theicemantheiceman Posts: 736
    But I'm still happier that Lutz decided to bring the GTO back.

    I don't know if my next car will be a GTO or a CTS-V. I like what I'm hearing about both of them.

    Then again, it could be something completely different - as I'm still about 2 years away from my next new car.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    andys120... I bought my 540i6 used, Certified Preowned. Saved 40% off original MSRP. But that price was about what a new GTO is projected to cost.

    I also have a soft spot for GM iron. Loved my '96 Impala SS. Had it for 6 years. Miss old Darth Vader. Traded in for the 540i6. I also had a bright red '97 Camaro I used for work purposes. 3800 V6 5-speed manual with the Performance Pkg (LSD, bigger tires, etc.). Kids and I miss the old Red Baron. But both lacked IRS.

    Too bad the CTS styling is so futuristic. Too hip, too current for my taste. Don't think it will wear well over time. I like the GTO's more restrained and curvy styling.

    And with $3K in GM credit card rebates, a 6-speed GTO Gen III 5.7L V8 with LSD and IRS is most appealing. Heck, a 540i6 doesn't even have an LSD (only the M5 has an LSD).
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,462
    The GTO will NOT be a four door, nor should it be, but a convertible might keep me out of a Mustang GT.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • opimaxopimax Posts: 73
    Don't think it is available on the Goat, is it available on the Bitter or Holden?

    Mark
    G35 Coupe owner who wants more torque and a bike rack, is this it ???
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,942
    right. not sure why i said that. probably cause i was talking about my car and the ReX.

    whatever. the points still stand.

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,462
    I agree the old platform is antique and leaves something to be desired.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • theicemantheiceman Posts: 736
    I think you have rear leg room issues! (LOL)

    It's a good point though. When does a coupe become a 2+2? And at what point would you simply be better off buying a 2 seater? The Mustang's rear seat is pathetic to be sure and the GTO's promises to be much better.

    But cars like this conjure up visceral responses - they don't win over adherents through safety equipment and leg room (as you have correctly stated). Nevertheless, most of us still have to rationalize a $30k + purchase - if only to help convince the missus. And the practicality of real rear seats does help.

    ice
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,942
    If I buy a coupe, I have very little consideration for rear leg room in the first place. And, basically, anyone I know who would have a tough time fitting in the backseat of a Volvo or Bimmer certainly doesn't want to contort themselves to get in the back of a coupe in the first place.

    V8, 6-speed, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, its the only one. Great. So does that mean I should pay that kind of money for it? So they discontinued the reasonably priced Z28 and are, in effect, replacing it with this and we should be happy to pay a premium for it? Sure, sure, you'll tell me about the increased rear leg room and seat travel or some such thing. I still say its not worth all this extra money. Sorry. hey, go buy one, have fun, beat the pants off many many cars on the road. That's great. I'm just not willing to fork over that kind of money for the privelege of driving a 2-door GM V8 (unless it can haul really big things).

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    The GTO brochure says the trunk has (approx) 9 cubic feet of trunk space. That is pretty small. Better not use the space-intruding goose-neck hinges or else the trunk might hardly be useable. Don't see the brochure mentioning anything about split-fold rear seat. Will be interesting to see how useable the trunk is.

    Brochure also says front headroom is only 37.3 inches, rear also at 37.3 inches. That might cause problems for tall drivers.

    Wonder if the quest for rear seat space compromised trunk room?
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,462
    By the standards of the 60s and 70s the original Goats were marginal to be considered family sedans and that will be true of the new Goat in our day when tall truck-based wagons often sreve as family transportation.

    Those really in the need of family transportation
    with a performance edge would be better advised to look at offerings from Volvo, BMW, Audi and the like.

    Back in the day Goats were sold mostly to single guys or married ones with a station or six-passenger sedan already in the driveway.

    You can't teach a new Goat old tricks (?)

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Does anyone know how many GTOs will be made over the next few years? I understood that production will not be a one-shot deal like Ford has done recently. Will there ever be any available via the dealer's lot or am I stuck (literally) with ordering one? I'd buy one today if I could get a six speed for $31-32K. I just refuse to pay msrp.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,462
    if we're in the tank in '04 there may be plenty of new Goats and few buyers. OTOH a revived economy (you can always hope) is a virtual guarantee that there'll be high initial demand and possibly even MSRP+ADM pricing. It won't last forever with such a competitive auto market IMO.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,942
    a troll is someone who drops a comment and bails or sticks around for one or 2 retorts and bails. Most times, they also usually make a very one-sided and abrasive comment like "the GTO sucks! I'm gonna buy an STi instead!"
    You obviously don't know me, you obviously don't know what a troll is, and you obviously haven't read all of my comments to see the good things I'm saying as well as the bad.

    so only a buyer of this car is allowed to comment? Now THAT is boring. Must be lovely going through life only speaking to people who agree with you.

    I came here because I WAS interested in the GTO. Have always been a GM musclecar fan. I do like this car, no doubt. Just not over $30K worth of liking. But I'm going to stick around and continue to read about it because it still interests me from a fan standpoint. Just not as a consumer. If that bores you, too bad.

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,462
    when you need one. Calm down you guys, this is getting very unpleasant.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,942
    only 200 posts and you're already tired of complaints? Must be a large percentage of complaints about this car then. Tells me something about it, that's for sure.

    I've complained about nothing but the price, so I don't know what you are reading or why my comments have enraged you more than anybody else's. Heck, I've only made 2 posts in regard to this! You must be confusing me with someone else or lumping several people together.

    only buyers or potential buyers add value? That's great. Better stop reading all those car mags cause 99.99% of the time those writers never buy the cars they test or write about.

    So, come on, fans. Get on with it. Where is all the decent chatter? The last good post concerned comparisons. Anybody else put deposits down? What else did you consider before doing so?

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    valhs... You wrote, "The 2004 GTO is what it is." True, but as of today we don't know what it is. No one here owns one or has driven one. And the automotive press hasn't had a chance to even test a full production one. All we know is what GM is telling us. Will be interesting to see how that information compares to what real buyers and the auto mag testers say. And, of course, there is no long-term reliability data (e.g., CR). No long-term ownership cost data (e.g., Intellichoice). No crash test data (e.g., NHTSA or IIHS). No purchase price (MSRP vs actual price paid) or lease (e.g., projected vs realized residuals) data.

    We're all just having fun discussing a future car. Who knows what the future holds? Though I think we are all hoping the GTO turns out to be a very good car that GM works to improve over time. I don't want to see a Fiero debacle where the first years' cars are junk and it isn't until the final year GM gets it right, just before axing the car. Nor do I want to see a repeat of the Allante or Regatta debacles. Or the sad demise of the Riviera and Tornado. (Heck, can't say I know how to spell these two former Buick products. At least Pontiac keeps the name simple!)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,942
    true 'nuf.

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • I've contacted Ron Pauley. Maybe he can work some magic for me. BTW - I made sure to tell him about your kind words.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    valhs... Not sure you can generalize much from experience in the foreign market. It is still a different car in different environment. For example, how will it hold up on our roads in our weather? Australia has nothing like America's winters.

    I hope it works, but if history is any guide, the odds are stacked against it. Remember the Mercury Capri? Mercury's answer to the Miata. Thinking it came out around 1990. Was an Australian Ford. Bombed in US market. Remember the Merkur XR4ti? Came out around 1984 and died a slow death about 1988. It didn't do so well. Heavily modified from a wonderful Ford of Europe product. Then Merkur Scorpio, another Ford of Europe transplant, bombed even quicker. This list of less than great transplants includes a horde of Mitsu transplants rebadged as Plymouths and Dodges. Opel LeMans (really a Daweo). Isuzus and Suzukis rebadged as Chevrolets (and later Geos). Chevy to do this again in near future. And more.

    So few have succeeded. Only two I can think of were the Ford Fiesta in the late 1970s (and it was killed off quickly in USA to make room for mediocre American-designed/produced Escort) and the Mercury Capri from the mid-1970s (based on the classic Ford of Europe car).
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,942
    I was just thinking about that very point on my way home today .... the one about being just a larger vette. And that made me think that maybe $33-$35K aint such a bad price in comparison. (but I won't plunk down .... yet)

    High 12s with good tires? That's pretty damned quick.

    Out of curiosity, anyone know numbers for a recent vette (non-Z06)? I looked at motor trend real quick but couldn't sift through all the nonsense. I'm sure I could find it somewhere, but this is easier.

    I'm wondering how much of a difference we're talking about.

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,942
    Geez.... most of those sucked! And those that had anything to offer were so unknown that nobody would risk taking a chance on them.

    Not nearly the same as reviving an American classic. (we'll avoid T-bird references and hope that is no indication)

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,942
    That blue is painful to look at. I need shades. Look like nice seats, though.

    What car is that in the last pic?

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    davbo... You wrote, "I'm guessing you're a glass half empty guy." I'm more a "trust/hope, but verify". I don't believe hype. Proof is in the results. I can't wait to see the American results done using real full production cars (not prototypes or Australian cars). The ingredients look good (5.7L V8, 6-speed manual, IRS, LSD, etc.) but the chef has to put them together well.

    Great example is the Mercury Marauder. Looked good on paper. Hype made it look like it had a lot going for it. But once the testing started, the mediocrity stood out. Failing in the marketplace.

    [Some transplants shouldn't have failed. Cousin of mine had an '85 Merkur XR4ti. A potentially great car that just lacked decent follow-up improvement.]
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,462
    was really styled by Italians they must have been some school kids. It sure doesn't look like Pininfarina, Italdesign or Ghia etc.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • The GTO should be fine in North American winters.

    When Lutz approved this project, all models of the car (Chevrolet Lumina SS/Holden Monaro/Pontiac GTO) recieved a redesigned interior with materials that can stand below zero temperatures.

    As for history, well, those are all no name cars. This is the new Pontiac GTO, it has a legendary name and a lot of good specs going for it, it's also the same type of car as the original (powerful, comfortable, coupe).

    If it provides the performance, it will be purchased, especially at the $33k price which is a bargain compared to the loaded F-bodies GM was selling not so long ago.
  • Here's a review of the Monaro when it debuted as a new model over a year ago,

    http://www.autospeed.com/A_1381/cms/article.html

    It's from AutoSpeed, an Australian car mag.

    The car has underwent some changes since then, and the GTO is further tweaked here and there over the Chevrolet/Holden flavors, I wonder how much more refined GM has made it for North America?
This discussion has been closed.