Chrysler Pacifica

russklass

I just got off a long, unsatisfactory, phone conversation with Chrysler customer service. They flatly refuse to extend the $1,000 rebate offer to pre 5/3/03 customers. They also refused to give me the name/number of someone with higher authority.
The dealers did not promose "no rebates" on the Pacifica, CHRYSLER DID, in a fax to the dealers on 1/13/03.
I can't speak for others, but I'm going to fight!
By tomorrow, I will post here the personal mailing address and office phone # for Dr. Dieter Zetsche, Chrysler CEO. I will be sending him a registered, receipt requested, letter stating the case for compensating early customers.
Anybody else want to join in?

b25nut

Ms Mayor, ditto to everything you have said. We are driving the best vehicle on the road and it fills all our needs. I wouldn't be happier with any other car, even one that would cost $60K+. I'm happy, and that's my choice. Why spoil it by making an issue over what we paid? Sure I would love to have $1000 fall into my pocket, but not at the price of being a whiner.

oedipus1608

Chrylser is having enough trouble already, they don't need anymore. Just leave them alone.

rbenton

FWD Base $30,550
Minus Alloy Rims and 235/65R17, wheel covers 225/75R16 steel rims -$525;
Minus Auto Load Leveling Rear struts -$500;
Minus Fog Lights -$140;
Minus Privacy Rear Glass -$450;
Minus Theft Alarm and Sentry Key system -$400;
Minus Auto Headlights -$80;
Minus Varible Interminent Wipers, Fixed Interminent -$30;
Minus Homelink Transceiver -$130;
Minus Illuminated Vanity Mirrors -$125;
Minus Auto Dim RearView Mirror -$130;
Minus Infifnty Sound System, 4 speaker 60 Watt system -$450;
Minus Heated Mirrors and Drivers Side Auto Dim -$100;
Minus 3rd Row Seating -$650;
Minus 2nd Row Buckets and Console, 2nd Row Split Bench Seat -$750;
Minus Power pedals -$185;
Minus Memory System -$250;
Minus Power Passenger Seat -$275;
Minus 10 way Drivers Seat, 6 way Driver Seat -$150;
Minus Leather Steerting Wheel and radio Controls -$225;
Minus Dual Zone Auto A/C -$300;
Minus Air filter -$70;
Minus Tire Monitior -$150;
Minus Driver Side Knee Air Bag -$200;
Minus 4 Wheel Disc ABS Brakes -$675;
Minus Side Curtain Air Bags -$300;
Minus Traction Control -$200;
Minus AutoStick -$200
Total Deleted Features $7540 MSRP Estimate
New Decontented MSRP $23010
with these Feaure Cuts Pacifica should be able to compete with Buick Rendezvous

twoof1

I have read every post on this messge thread from the start and I respect and appreciate your insight in many of the posts you have made. However I think in the instance of trying to go after Chrysler it sounds like sour grapes. You went ahead and purchased a brand new vehicle in it's first couple of month's of release. The risk you took to be one of the first is to pay full price. Regardless of what you may or may not have been told or whatever incentives may be offered later, you agreed to pay full price for the car When you signed the contract. That's it bottom line. Now you have to live with it. Buyers remorse or not, that is the reality.

What makes you think that now you have a right to go back and get a discount? What if they agreed and after you got some financial compensation (which by the way will not happen) they offered an even greater incentive. Would you then be entitled to get even more money back?

russklass

Tim, you are missing the point here.
I complerely agree with what you said in 99+% of rebate circumatances.
BUT, in this instance Chrysler stated, in writing,
There would be no rebates on the Pacifica. That said, they owe those of us who bought in good faith, believing what they said.
ALL the US automakers are slitting their own throats with these sensless rebates. They are killing the resale values, thereby negating the value of the rebates.
When will they learn to build top quality, price it fairly, and reap the benefits of the high resale values enjoyed by the likes of Honda, Acura, Lexus, Toyota, etc?
We bought or leased 4 Chryslers, 2 300Ms, a Sebring LXI, and the Pacifica in the last 4 years.
After this experience, the replacement for the Sebring this Fall will probably be a Toyota.

patty64

russ - I agree with you totally. Regardless of what some of the other people on this board are saying, we were mislead. I've already written to Dr. Dieter and Gary Dilts - Sr. VP Marketing and Sales. I used the address you provided for Dr. Dieter. I have not heard back yet but am willing to join you on this front. Keep me posted!

As for those of you who disagree - to each his own. But understand that the only reason I purchased this car when I did was because the dealer was adamant about Chrysler not giving rebates for at least 6 months. I've known this dealer for 20 years and trust that he was telling me the truth. Unlike most dealers this guy has been very fair with me. I've purchased 3 cars from him in 10 years and have had positive experiences dealing with him. He feels that Chrysler mislead the dealers as well as the consumers.

mrl11777

The depreciation on these things is going to be massive, just like most everything built by GMFORDDC. An 03 Pacifica (or are they already calling them 04?) stickered at $40k will be $20k with 12k on the odo in a year's time. It just does not pay to buy new American, sorry to say. My family ride is an 01 Taurus wagon, purchased in 02 with 11k miles on it -- for $9,000 less than a comparable new one from the dealer's floor.

But, I must thank those of you who buy new and trade 'em in fast and eat the depreciation -- you make it possible for folks like me to get a good deal.

ms_mayor

I can't speak for everyone else, but the primary reason I buy a particular car is to fill the transportation needs of my family, not to find the one with the least depreciation or greatest trade value.

A car is not an investment, and anyone who buys one with resale/residual value as a primary focus is, in my opinion, not the brightest bulb in the box.

I could care less if the resale value of my Pacifica drops to $0 after five years. It will always be worth its weight in gold as long as it meets my family's transportation needs.

mrl11777

you sound like a marketers dream come true.

oedipus1608

Your resale value of the Pacifica is incorrect. The Pacifica has a resale value of 53%.

pssimon

I have to say I find all this talk about depreciation of the Pacifica interesting, but probably not applicable to me. I am the kind of person the auto industry does not like. I buy a car and take very good care of it and hence it lasts. My new Pacifica will be replacing a 1993 Eagle Vision TSi with over 160,000 miles on it. I must also add TROUBLE FREE miles. Aside from a few quirks out of the gate 10 years ago, that car has been a joy to own. We just decided it was time to move on.

The fact that there might be a very steep depreciation curve on the vehicle is of little to no concern. If I get the same kind of service from the Pacifica that I got from the Vision, it will be 10 years from now and over 100,000 miles when I look to sell it. With 100,000+ miles, there usually isn't much dollars left in a car value anyway, regardless of the make, so I won't feel the loss.

Of more concern to me is how well the vehicle holds up and how much repairs dollars I have to put in to it. If it holds up anywhere near as well as my Vision, I consider my decision to by a Pacifica a good one, regardless of how it depreciated. If I happen to get a tidy sum for it at sales time, that's just icing on the cake.

Just my $0.02!

Paul

mrl11777

Even if you keep a car until its wheels fall off, depreciation is still a factor, if you take advantage of it.

The folks who have to have everything new buy say, a Pacifica, for $40k. They then trade it in for the next new thing after a year and 12-15k miles. I buy the vehicle for $20k and it is still essentially a new car, with a manufacturers warranty, which makes it less risky to buy. Now, I keep it until it turns to rust. No two ways about it -- I saved $20,000.

What is hard to understand about that? Once again, thank you to all of those new car buyers out there!

oedipus1608

The Pacifica depreciates 53% in three years not one. FYI, the Pacifica has one of the highest resale values among domestic vehicles.

mrl11777

"The Pacifica depreciates 53% in three years not one. FYI, the Pacifica has one of the highest resale values among domestic vehicles."

Pie in the sky projections. If DC is basing their leases on this, they will be swimming in more red ink in the next year or so.

Has there been any resale activity yet? The model has been on sale what, three months?

twoof1

I missed where you originaly reported that Chrysler actually put in writing that "There would be no rebates on the Pacifica"
Was this from the dealer or Chrysler corporate?
What form was this claim in?
Was there a time frame on this claim?
If in fact it was a published Chrysler coporate statement then I might have a different view of the complaint. I would have to see it.

icvci

A car is not an investment, and anyone who buys one with resale/residual value as a primary focus is, in my opinion, not the brightest bulb in the box.

Funny, I think the same is true of someone who thinks a vehicle isn't an investment. Does the return on an investment have to be monetary? Or could you say, invest time and get satisfaction as a reward? You put money in to a vehicle and get transportation in return. Every investment doesn't return a profit. What if a car does return a profit, then is it an investment?

Here's a question, how does an insurance company determine when a vehicle is totaled? It's value? If you get into a serious accident and your car isn't worth what you owe you're in big trouble. Hope you had a healthy down payment (or gap insurance) or you're gonna pay for a vehicle that's gone.

For those of us with growing families and constantly changing needs, a vehicle is definitely an investment.

Russ, my first and last DCX vehicle was a Neon. It had problems and DCX said sorry about your luck. I hope you find a way to hold them to their word. Good luck.

revka

because they were not within our Town Hall guidelines.

To everyone - We need to keep the focus on vehicles instead of on each other. It's okay to take issue with someone's comments, as long as the debate is friendly and on topic. Okay? For further clarification on this matter, please refer to the member conduct section of our Town Hall Member Agreement.

To those concerned - Feel free to email me if you have any questions/comments regarding this matter. Please do not address this with me here. Thanks.

And now, let's get back to the subject of the Chrysler Pacifica.

Revka
Host/Hatchbacks & Wagons

russklass

The communication was from Chrysler to the dealers in a fax from Sarah L. Saker, at 4:11 PM on January 13, 2003.
I would be happy to fax it to anyone who wants it. Just e-maim a fax # to the e-mail address in my Edmunds profile.

twoof1

Just curious, Did the fax give a timeframe that Chrysler would not have rebates?

russklass

"minimizing incentives over the vehicle lifecycle"

pssimon

"minimizing incentives over the vehicle lifecycle"

Doesn't that statement imply that there won't be a lot of rebates but there will be some? In this, I don't see a reference to when rebates could start, just that there is an implication that there will be less than average amounts of rebates in either time periods or the size of the rebate.

Did I miss something?

twoof1

"minimizing incentives over the vehicle lifecycle" does not state or even imply that they won't have any rebates. Of course I am not seeing it in context. Is there any other form of no rebate disclaimer?

foxgo

>>Here's a question, how does an insurance company determine when a vehicle is totaled? It's value? If you get into a serious accident and your car isn't worth what you owe you're in big trouble. Hope you had a healthy down payment (or gap insurance) or you're gonna pay for a vehicle that's gone.<<

I do agree with you that a car is an investment, regardless of whether you can turn a profit when you sell. However, my insurance policy (I can't speak for everyone else's insurance) has a "replacement cost" clause that assigns a value to the car at signing, roughly equivalent to the purchase price, and that is the amount that the insurance company will pay in the event of a total loss, no matter what its blue-book value was at the time of the loss. I pay a little more for that "replacement cost" rider, but it gives peace of mind to know that I don't have to worry about gap insurance, down payment amounts, etc...that I am totally covered if the car is totaled.

acrafton

Guys, come on, grow up. The new rebates/reduced priced on the Pacifica is a fact of life and if you are going to ask Chrysler for a rebate, why not go back to the dealer and ask for a better deal? As I posted a few weeks ago they are now advertised in the paper at $4500 off MSRP.

Re the letter to dealers - this means nothing. I am sure Chrysler's intent was to minimize rebates/incentives on a new vehicle and this is what they communicated. As soon as they realized they weren't selling they would quickly move to rebates, etc. Are you surprised? Did you really expect these to stack up on a dealers lot? Chrysler made no commitment to you.

The reality is those of you that bought early got what you wanted - a new car at a price you agreed was acceptable. End of story. I think in all honesty you now realize that you way overpaid for the vehicle and have buyers remorse. Sorry, but that is they way I see it.

I looked at the Pacifica several months ago and posted my thoughts before most of you bought (you can look my comments up). In those posts (while not meaning to insult anyone) I stated that the vehicle was overpriced and not to practical, risked being an Edsel, would see 'massive' incentives to move them, and would depreciate like crazy. These appears to be the case.

There are risks/rewards when you by something very new and different. You could have bought a hot car that the dealers couldn't keep on the lot (PT Cruiser) and your car would be worth more on the resale market than you paid. Or, as in the Pacifica's case, you bought a highly marked up car that very few people want and the prices are dropping radically.

Look, I am still intrigued by the Pacifica and in a year or so when they used ones hit the market for $22-25K (fully loaded) I may buy one.

But please, stop with the sour grapes and buyer's remorse re the price/rebates. You took a gamble and lost.

Adam

mrl11777

How true. The DC dealer that I know has said the same things -- they are piling up, they can be optioned every which way but the lack of a seating choice in the second row is a real deal killer. He said (and he is also a Ford dealer) that he thought that the Pacifica was finally going to address the lack of a decent station wagon from all of the domestic makers. Volvo sells tons of wagons, and so does every foreign maker that offers one. The Pacifica, without the capability to seat five in the first two rows, is just another SUV or minivan. Plus, this pig is way overpriced, and the market is telling DC just that.

At $20-25k lightly used, it would be worth looking into, though.

twoof1

Cars are not financial investments, they are a depreciating asset. If you look up the word investment in the dictionary, you get: "Property or another possession acquired for future financial return or benefit."

icvci in post #859 had a good point though "You put money in to a vehicle and get transportation in return." I guess that would fall into the "benefit" part of the definition.

So you see that while you can get a benefit "transportation & enjoyment" out of a car investment it will rarely if ever produce a financial reutrn greater than the original investment itself.

The key to a sound decision is how to balance his or her own personal needs of "benefit" which could include emotional reasons as well (style, comfort etc.) against the "depreciation" of the asset along with the "cost" of the initial investment.

That's why there is no right answer and that's why they make sedans, coupes, SUV's, minivans, station wagons etc. Each individual has a different set of priorities upon which they base their decision.

b25nut

My choice came down to the Lexus RX330 or the Pacifica. I would have paid at least $4000 more for a Lexus that would have given me things I didn't really need (laser cruise control, auto wipers, etc.) and would have had a vehicle that hardly anyone would notice (it doesn't stand out from the RX300). For those who have buyer's remorse, what other vehicle would have given you all the features you have in the Pacifica for less money? If you had waited to buy so that you could save $1000, you wouldn't have been the first on the block, you wouldn't be turning heads every day, you wouldn't be known as the "Pacifca Guru". There are some feelings that are worth more than money.

pacificaoregon

Thanks b25nut. I agree with your post. The Lexus was more money and doesn't offer a 3rd row option. You hit it on the head with, "what other vehicle would have given you all the features you have in the Pacifica for less money?" The only comparable models we looked at with the 3rd row option were the MDX and XC90. I fit much easier into the 3rd row in the Pacifica than the MDX. The XC90 is a ton more expensive fully loaded and currently doesn't offer factory rear DVD system which was something we desired for our summer traveling.

I also have to say it is a head turner and more people are starting to recognize it and call it by name when seeing it in their driveway when we visit. I've dubbed it the Celine Machine and it gets a lot of laughs.

Have a great day and hope the board lightens up, seems like it's been so argumentative lately.

rcf8000

I looked at the Pacifica and ended up with a Sienna XLE (GH) for about the same MSRP ($34,000) The features aren't exactly comparable, but balanced out in favor of the Sienna, in my opinion. Of course, now the Pacifica would be a lot cheaper, considering the big discounts being offerred. This probably wouldn't be reason enough for me prefer it, but some would be tempted, for sure.

mrl11777

You won't see your dealer service area much, if at all, with your Sienna. If you had purchased the P, you would get to know how good the service waiting room's coffee was, cable or sat TV, choice of reading material, et al.

twoof1

Mark,
You know nothing about the reliability of the Pacifica and quite frankly you are contributing nothing substantitive to this forum.
I don't expect everything on this forum to be warm & fuzzy glowing statements about the Pacifica, but I do expect that the negative be based on fact not some mis-informed opinion.

mrl11777

Reasonable guess based on prior experience.

pssimon

Mark, you are a BMW owner. That's fine. You like your BMW... that's fine too. You don't want to own a Pacifica, and that's also fine as well. But to take shots about a vehicle that hasn't been around very long, basically has NO track record, and you don't own so you have no experience with seems unfair, at the least.

As an owner (or soon to be ex owner when my Pacifica shows up) of an Eagle Vision with over 160,000 TROUBLE FREE miles (as well as previous Chrysler vehicles), I have to say that I am VERY pleased with Chrysler products. They have have been a joy to drive and own, and I expect nothing less from the Pacifica.

If you have constructive comments to make about the Pacifica, your comments are more than welcome and I would love to hear them. To constantly, however, take unnecessary shots at the car and those that purchase them seems unfair.

Just my $0.02

Paul

shipo

Between my wife and I, we have 1 BMW (2002 530i) and two DC vehicles (1998 GC Sport 3.8 and 2003 GC ES 3.8, which we bought in lieu of a Pacifica). Since we bought the 1998, it has had exactly one unscheduled bit of service, the battery failed at about 45,000 miles (I gave it a DieHard for its troubles). The 1998 has been flawless with that one exception, and now has about 80,000 miles and going strong.

The two BMWs that I have had since we bought the first Caravan were also equally reliable. The 1999 328i suffered two burned out taillights, and the 2002 530i has been perfect so far.

To suggest that one of these two marques would be more reliable than the other without significant scientific analysis is silly. Anecdotal evidence doesn&#146;t count at all, and so any given individuals&#146; experience with any given marque is basically irrelevant.

Given my personal (anecdotal) experience, they both are extremely reliable. Based upon my lengthy presence here at Edmunds, and reading literally thousands of posts over the last 5 years, I still think that both marques are extremely reliable. Does either of those last two statements mean anything in the grand scheme of things? Nope.

Best Regards,
Shipo

pssimon

Shipo, very well put. Thank you.

twoof1

"Does either of those last two statements mean anything in the grand scheme of things? Nope."
Actually your insight and perceptive comments do mean something. I have always found your post's well thought out and informative. I agree with you on the bimmer reliability as my '00 Z3 and my '01 325 were both very reliable with the exception of a couple of minor QC problems with my 325 which were rectified. Unfortunately I cannot speak to the reliability of the Chrysler product over the last 10 years.
Congrats by the way on your "member spotlight" I miss your constructive posts over on the bimmer side.

music287

"Let the buyer beware!" I just purchased a PT Cruiser with a $3500 rebate at under $100 over invoice. (There's a "hidden" rebate on the Chrysler website when you state you'll buy a PT within 10 days.) When those things came out two-three years ago, people were paying way over invoice for the privelege of owning one of the first. My feeling, as with all high tech things: wait awhile for the bugs to be worked out and buy one generation back. I.E. my computer is a 1.8 Dell: works 95% as good as the state of the art at half price. You early adoptors always pay a higher price. Stop moaning, guys.

Jay

hayneldan

This is a tough problem for the early buyers of almost any thing. VCR's DVD players Digital camera's and New model cars. If you want to be the first with the newest you will probabaly pay for that priviledge. You probably don't want to be the first "cowboy" over the hill when fighting the indians. Russ I think you negotiated a pretty good deal at near invoice during the early release of the Pacifica.

libertycat

Noticed however that the smog level is horrendous and the 2nd row armrest is very inconvient when storing lots of cargo with the 2nd row folded. Also, it makes it hard to get to the third row seat. Great styling inside and out and a powerful and lots of room. I think it is an SUV not a wagon due to its height and length. Does anyone agree that it is an SUV? P.S.-don't tell me if u don't as most people won't, only if u do, LOL.

libertycat

That is my definition of a minivan. Obviously, this is not a full-size van which of course don't have sliding doors.

ms_mayor

There's no way this vehicle could be mistaken for a minivan for precisely the reason you gave...no sliding door. It also, in my opinion, doesn't have the 'boxy' feel of a van on the outside.

My insurance company considers it an SUV.

I do not think of it as an SUV. Though I've only driven mine a mere 200 miles, it has none of the 'truck' feeling I got when test driving/sitting in true SUV's. It handles just like a car.

I call it Mom's Muscle Wagon.

twoof1

could those of you who now have some miles on their Pacificas please post their gas mileage and what type of driving it is they are doing along with if their Pacifica is FWD or AWD. I'm just wondering if it's improving as the engine breaks in and loosen's up.
Thanks

revka

In addition to gas mileage, feel free to share any other details about your Pacifica. For those interested, you could list your:

1. Model Year & Total miles to date.
2. MPG & Driving habits.
3. Any additional accessories & mods?
4. Maintenance issues to date.
5. Any interesting trips or cargo experiences?
6. Overall impressions pro/cons of your vehicle; any changes in that since you first purchase?

Share as much (or as little) information as you'd like. I'm sure other Pacifica owners/shoppers passing through here, would find the information quite interesting, if not helpful.

Also, you can report back every 3-5k to update again.... Who's game?

Thanks for your participation! ;-)

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

icvci

That is my definition of a minivan. Obviously, this is not a full-size van which of course don't have sliding doors.

The early Odyssey and MPV didn't have sliding doors. Many cargo vans don't have sliding doors. Really, isn't it just a plump minivan? It has absolutely no offroad ability. Don't get me wrong, I think it has it's place. I'd much rather drive behind a Pacifica than a GC.

kalathiparambi

can anyone tell me if the 2nd row passenger seat can be removed to allow easy access for my daughter to the 3rd row. can the consumer remove it or does it have to be done at the dealer...

thanks in advance.

jglackin

i remember a post a few weeks ago from a person saying they removed a seat from the second row. if they are not heated, there are no electronics going to it, just bolts holding it down.

libertycat

I LOVE minivans. The early Odysseys and MPVs really weren't minivans, just the original car-based SUVs. The Pacifica is NOT a minivan due to the lack of sliding doors and many others reasons too. Cargo vans are different than minivans. No car-based SUVs have off-road ability.

libertycat

One more reason the Pacifica is an SUV is because it is tall AND has lots of ground clearance. Oops, that was two, LOL!

ms_mayor

Pacifica certainly has its roots in the SUV form, for all the reasons you give. Its higher stance certainly contributes to the SUV 'look'.

I think to truly appreciate its relationship to a car you have to drive one.

I've driven a couple of true SUV's (Nissan Xterra, Toyota Highlander, Chevy Blazer) and always felt like I was driving a truck. That is a major reason I was turned off them.

I owned a '90 Volvo station wagon for almost 14 years, and loved that car. Loved the ease of carting groceries, my kids stuff (hockey equipment, dance stuff) and the stability. I probably would have stuck with Volvo but for two reasons: I really wanted to be able to carry six passengers (each of my kids can 'bring a friend') and the maintenance costs on a Volvo can be a bear.

I waited a year for Pacifica to come out, having only seen pictures. I truly hoped that it would have the car-like ride I craved, because it met all my other needs beautifully.

I was not disappointed when I drove it. I get a good command of the road with the higher stance, but enjoy the drive because of the car-like handling. I get up each day wondering..."Where can I drive today?"