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I am looking at financing in the spring.
And, for the record: acknowledging your favorability to the new IS, and then taking a complete 180 (i.e. your obvious gripe with *LOL* the 'backseat') for the remainder of your post (which seems to be your style in this particular forum) gets you NOWHERE. Like BGDC said, we have VARYING vehicles with DIFFERENT priorities (and another LOL @ BGDC suggesting you drive a Honda Oddyssey).
I've yet to read anything rational from you.
But here's my question for y'all, setting aside the appearance of the car, which of course is very subjective, why would someone consider the IS250 AWD when an A4 3.2 quattro is only $2k more, and would significantly out-perform the Lexus? (BTW, yes Lexus reliability is far better that Audi's - I know)
Discuss amongst yourselves.
http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24783&st=15
January (when the RWD 6 speed manual IS 250 is available)
I guess that gives me a lot of time to sell my 04 Mini Cooper S and the 98 Audi A4.
Lexus - hurry up with the manual tranny version! :P
One other thing, perhaps you can get a rebate? of ~ 2% on the US duty.
A4 2.0 T 6-speed manual quattro® Base MSRP: $29,740
Price as configured: with nav and technology package, premium, leather etc.
$38,160
A4 3.2 6-speed manual quattro® Base MSRP: $34,840
Price as configured: with nav and technology package, premium, leather, and added parktronic since there is no cool camera like lexus.
$42,160
Lexus IS250 with nav
$37,425.00
The good thing is Audi does offer the manual with the quattro. This would be a deal breaker for me. But since I dont have a need for AWD anymore, the RWD will be fine for me. Not sure if i would be happy with the front track Audi but it does get a little better MPG and also better 0-60 in dry weather. Anyway - We have ruled out Audi as the manufacturer of our next car. Too many bad experiences with service. Too many electrical problems/rattles with the 2001 TT. It was a fun car but I was scared to keep it past the end of the warranty. As for the A4 I still have, it has been ok, but both seat airbags needed to be replaced out of warranty, also the ignition switch had a problem which burned up the starter moter and flywheel because it stayed connected to flywheel after starting. Both of these problems were recalls on the 97 model year but not 98 model year. My 98 was built in April of 97 but was not covered under any recalls but suffered the same problems. Mostly the A4 has been reliable enough and a good car. Just we have had such a great experience with the service for our RX330.
Other reasons I think discount by chrismas is realistic is this. The dealers for the first time have a sharp looking product in a price range where they can draw a lot of customers and effectively for the 1st time to compete with BMW. So I think the dealers and sales people are dying to have a great Chrismas sales season, they will make deals. Also, I noticed at the dealer, there are a lot of LOOKERS, didn't see very many customer signing papers. The economy is different today then 5 years ago, cars no matter how hot they are they don't just walk out the door by themselves anymore.
Actually, one rare sight at the Lexus dealer that is common with other brands dealers is they got a ton of sales people standing around DOING NOTHING. They all have the look of a zombie waiting for a sucker. I actually heard this one lame [non-permissible content removed] sales guy trying to justify MRSP to this guy. We all know one thing for sure, MRSP will last very long. IS is not a limited edition or limited production car, it is based on volume.
Lastly, most customer seem to be turned off by the fact dealer is cocky right now. But soon the dealer will realize even though IS is generating buzz and moving some vehicles, they don't sell enough so they wind up discounting them.
I don't expect discount will be more than say $800-$1500 off MRSP but I think its coming. As matter of fact, I am not even sure they won't accept a customer offer of say $500 discount if the customer were to buy now or walk. My gut feeling is the dealers are putting up a front.
Furthermore, I don't understand how some people would rush out pay MRSP. That's crazy to me. Again my opinion ;et's not start a fight here.
If you don't like the car you might as well move on. Car doesn't match what you want. Lucky there are a hundred other models for you to choose from.
It's right in keeping with the class and more than enough for two people to pack for a weeklong trip.
"Chasis weakened", dude you need to get your head checked. Fold down would have little if ANY to do chasis.
On the 46 and e90 there actually is bracing that runs behind the seats. If you buy a 3 series with a fold down rear seat you are in fact buying a car with a weaker chassis structure than the car that still has its cross braces.
for the E46:
Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18000Nm/deg of torsion
Sedan (w/folding seats) 13000Nm
Sport wagon (w/folding seats) 14000Nm
Coupe (w/folding seats) 12500Nm
Convertible 10500Nm
Essentially, consider the cross braces as a strut tower built into the sedan. Add the folding seat and you weaken the chassis by 500 nm/deg of torsion.
If anyone makes a car based on fold down seats weakens chasis, then they are probably already went out of business. Your argument is what's weakening the chasis! LOL
Do some research before you mouth off. There's a reason many of us prefer sedans and the stiffness of the chassis is one element.
At this time xenons aren't available ala carta (cost cutting decision by Lexus no doubt). you could probably do aftermarkets for 800-1200. It's an expensive aftermarket upgrade and it doesn't always look "right" on other cars.
If the 2k of the Navi bugs you but you think the car needs it: wait on buying the car for a year. Put an extra $200 a month in the "navi-fund" and by the time 2007s roll out the car will be better (second year tends to be more solid) and probably cheaper.
The difference (among many) is that yours is an opinion and what BGDC has stated is fact.
"I don't discriminate, if I see something I dont like I say it. It's called honesty, but I suppose not everyone can face it."
Couple this with your ignorance and this is where the steam comes into the argument which should be a discussion in the first place.
"Face it, it's a dumb move on Lexus part."
Just because if you had designed a car with folding backseats, does not mean that based on Lexus' research putting in a solid backseat was a bad idea. Their reason is to reduce cabin noise from the trunk which resonates quite a bit. Couple in the fact that the IS was acoustically tuned to minimize the cabin noise with the Mark Levinson system, this was a good idea.
If you did not know, there is a pass through in the folding center armrest for skis and other long, narrow objects.
Disagree if you like and then move on. Just don't claim that your ideas are better for everybody and that Lexus doesn't know what they are doing because it disagrees with your priorities.
If you don't want to get an IS based on not having fold down seats I can't understand why you still complain, trying to persuade other people to your side when they don't have the same emphasis on the folding seats.
Get a car with folding seats then! :confuse:
No 17 year old needs a 41K car trust me, you won't appreciate what you got unless you earn it. Just my two cents.
Pay invoice for IS? You can if you want to take one of the 2005 off the dealer lot.
It wont happen on 2006 doesn't matter how good a negotiator you dad is. Market demand sets the pricing. Unless it's close out model year, a well established brand like lexus will never do it. It damages their brand if they sell a new redesigned car at invoice. FYI Lexus is not Ford. Domestic cars sell because they sell at huge discounts, usually if a car sells at huge discounts don't mean its a bargin because in someways that's all it is worth.
Remember, while you don't have to pay sticker, You get what you pay rule does apply all times.
I wish my dad buys me a 41K car. Wait, I am dreaming, better work hard get it myself.
I agree. Reaping the benifits of hard work is one of the best feelings there is. (Especially when you buy the car, knowing you can afford it in the long haul is key)
I would absolutely hate my life if everything was handed to me.
Hell I take it!
And watch your pejorative comments. You've already been proven flat out wrong, save some face...
I have no idea how it will change the look. That's up to you. I don't see the difference - I just like being able to see when I driving in the mountains, valley and desert.
Tthe second MY of a car will usually have some fixes for small issues that pop up in the first MY of any car. And perhaps some new features/content too. They usually add content as models age, all the while pricing drops.
gotta decide what's important to you. is power the issue or is bling bling?
I test drove the IS350 last week here in Calgary, and they told me that they have sold 20 250's and 350's already. They also told me that if I wanted one I would have to wait 3-8 weeks! Some range huh?
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- A 17 year old kid who can't write intelligently is expecting his father to negotiate a deal to buy him a $41K car !!!!
- Two guys are in a pissing contest over whether folding rear seats add to the structural integrity of the car !!!
Maybe we can move on... I saw the new IS in the showroom, was favorably impressed with the styling, however, interior space seems to be rather limited compared to Caddy and TL (why make a four door sedan when there is no leg room in the back seat?). Of greater concern is the power of the 250 compared to the 350. 204 hp seems quite limiting especially if the AWD is considered. The salesman said the IS250 is surprisingly quick and powerful but I didn't have a chance to test drive it.
Any thoughts?
I know I shouldn't but I can't resist but, blueguydotcom, this is exactly the problem that I had with your comments about the IS350. You were panning it before you ever drove it.
As far as comparing the TL to the IS, it is interesting. They probably are in the same class of cars, but the TL is quite a bit larger, and less sporting than the IS (just speaking from a FWD vs. RWD or AWD standpoint here).
Speaking from my experience with an 01 S4, the back seat is pretty tight (if you've seen the B5 platform you know what I'm talking about), but it's one of those things you have to balance. Do you want a bigger back seat or better performance. For me the back seat wasn't so much of an issue, and I got a great performance sedan, and it has 4 doors and a back seat (sort of
I expressed deep reservations prior to getting behind the wheel. The lack of manual set me off the most as it was a contradiction to the March statements that the car would be a class leader. The pricing troubled me more as the IS350 with basic options (sport package and xenons) pushed the price to levels I found unacceptable for any car in that class. Especially when one considered I couldn't get the car with a cheaper and far more interesting tranny. It was as if the lexus execs didn't just lie to me but then they added insult to injury by jacking up the price.
I felt like a bunch of fat MBAs were giggling: Ha, ha, ha not only are we not giving you the car outfitted to extract any measure of performance or enjoyment from the vehicle but we're asking you to pay 6k more than a comparable 330i to be bored by our vehicle. That's some audacity.
Unfortunately, my worst fears didn't approach just how off-target (for my tastes) Lexus ended up.
But note, I still left open the door for the IS350 to redeem itself on a drive - always mentioning the drive would determine my view. Whether you guys want to accept it or not after driving a few 325i's I thought BMWs were worthless too. It wasn't until I get into a performance package 330i (loads of difference from a sport package equipped car) that I felt I'd found the kind of car I'd want to drive. I expect the world but I won't say definitively anything until I've experienced any vehicle firsthand.
I have had navi in the last 3 cars we have bought. It is vital for any car I buy going forward to have it. It is a bit more expense but something that is so useful. Only downside if major roads change you might want to get a new data DVD for updated map data. This is about $200 - $300 from dealer. Or if you might know someone that has a newer version, you might be able to "borrow" a copy of it to see if its worth buying.
As for the HID - I doubt you would want to add this aftermarket. You might be able to to buy parts from lexus and install them but I am sure the parts would cost more than just adding the options for it.
As for looks - there is not much difference between looks of headlights when they are turned off so ½ the time. It might be a little cooler looking with the lcd. I place more emphasis on utility than appearance anyway. The HID are useful and the navi is very useful.
I guess I would rather have navi than HID if I had to choose.
1) BMWs are great cars. In fact, if you read on of my earlier posts, I even said that their sterring feel surpasses even Porsche.
2) Again, reading some of my earlier posts, I (also) wish there was a "kill switch" for the VDIM and a manual was offered for the IS350. (Although, personally, the latter is not too much of an issue for me in my situation.)
3) I too have expressed reservations about the Lexus IS350. Indeed, to me, the rear seats are so worthless that I still think I might be better off with a Porsche Cayman S.
4) I think the BMW 330i handles better than the Lexus IS350 but that does not mean that the Lexus IS350 handles poorly. Quite the contrary.
But ...
5) At the risk of losing our newfound comity, I test drove the IS350 before I offered my opinion on handling, performance, etc.
Which leads me to this for everyone: Please test-drive the car yourselves. No one can tell you how much you like or don't like the car but you.
from Minneapolis, MN
Amen. I think many, many people will be very happy with the IS line. Many will be BMW defectors too. We all have different desires from our cars.
Here are some things that stand out:
1. The non-ML stereo is VERY good. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who had the ML stereo in my GS and I have very high-end stereo equipment at home. I don't know if it has to do with the acoustics of the car, or what, but the sound is noticeably warmer than the ML in my GS.
2. The back seats are small, but my wife and I both sat in back after taking a drive in the front seats. Neither one of us were touching the front seats, and we were quite comfortable. Like I've said before, the more noticeable thing about being in the back seat is how tall the doors are. If gives you a feeling of sitting very low.
3. This brings me to my first knock, which is the tall doors and small windows. Going through the drive-through atm this morning was a tight fit. It was tough to get my arm out and was tight fitting out the window to press the buttons. Not a deal breaker, but a noticeable difference from my GS.
4. The ride is very firm compared to my GS, and I wouldn't want to feel the road any more than I already do. The handling, at least the little that I push it, is effortless.
5. The glove box is better than my GS, but the center console is tight. The power adapter is in a weird place, so I haven't figured out a way to plug in without having the console open. If you have any suggestions, maybe a smaller power adapter plug, let me know.
6. The NAV screen turns itself off after a while if you have it on the audio screen. The map will stay on as long as you want it, but I can seem to find a way to keep the audio screen on. It stays on for quite a while, but must "time-out" if left alone for a while.
7. I am pretty religious about the break-in period, so I haven't punch it too hard, but even moderate throttle pressure let's you know that this thing is fast.
8. Good size trunk.
9. Phone works very well and very easy. I can't get the battery strength or signal strength on my Nokia to show up on the screen. Anyone know is this is a Nokia issue or a Cingular issue? I'm curious if any other brands might be able to do this - like Motorola?
10. The lighting in the car is very cool at night. I have the lux package and the illuminated door sills light up the "Lexus" in a very contemporary blue. A nice touch.
I'll post more, but at this point I couldn't be happier. I still have a lot to learn about the car.
You may/may not know the E90 back seat is designed now with the fold down in mind. The design is the same weather you opt for them or not. Personnally ive used mine several times since May. Its enough storage to keep me from having a second junker truck around...
DL
I wish we had an emotorcon with a car running over a dead horse. :shades:
Lets have more updates when you can afford to post them. Don't let the wife drive it otherwise you may not have the car to yourself much longer... Did I tell you my wife now drives my LS and I get to drive her Matrix ? That's what I get letting my wife drive my Lex...So I gotta buy her an LX470 just so that I can get my LS back... An expensive compromise I know, but well worth it...
Anyway, any speculation on future IS engines like a V8 or hybrid-engines (i.e. IS 450h)? An answer to the mighty M3?
Like the 335i and GT-R, I'll believe it when I read a press release from the manu - in this case Lexus.
Good golly that'd be a ludicrously fast car though.