Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

tyorder1

Ohh thats says it. Car and Driver has spoken. We cannot purchase a Lexus because it is one point behind the 3! GEEZ. Who cares what they say. What is the point? Are we trying to prove to people that the car we drive is better because a magazine prefers ...key word... preferes a certain car? Whats the point? If you like the Lexus, get it. If you like the Bimmer, get it. I really don't see any logical reason to argue which car is better. In the end were all going to buy the car that we like, right? I've ordered my IS250 AWD crystal white/w black leather, nav and premium package. I will be happy with my Lexus as would I be equally happy if I was going to purchase a 3 series. Lets be honest who wouldn't be happy to drive either a Lexus or a BMW, lets get real. My choice came down to Lexus because I've owned 5 cars from them in the past 15 years and have only had one problem in that time span.

hfang

All of this back and forth is like trying to figure out which came first, the chicken or the egg. It's also like trying to compare a Porsche 997S vs Merc SL500. Clearly, the 997S is a better "driver's car" or "sports car", but the SL500 is undoubtedly more comfortable with a nicer interior and a much better cruiser. Which is a "better" car? Impossible to say. Sports car guys will prefer the 997S, and guys who place a premium on luxury and comfort (while still traveling quickly in style) will choose the SL500. This is a similar argument. The 3 series is a more involving driver's car (manual, sports package, etc) while the IS is more luxurious, (probably) more reliable, just as fast, but provides a somewhat more detached driving experience. Which is better? Fuggedaboudit.

glenford

After adjusting for and removing from the count the BMW/Lexus wars, there have been a thousand posts in this forum!

crimsono2

Don't bother with trying to add the subjective rankings. If you actually add C&D's subjective ranking table, IS and BMW tie. That last factoid, along with allowing BMW's past brake stat to replace their brake failure, caps off C&D's BMW bias with.

CrimsonO2

jjrob

I agree, some might prefer BMW others Lexus. You got to test drive yourself and see what fits you and is more practical for you!

on a side note: Saw test result in Motor trend Magazine post the IS350 1/4 mile at 14 seconds flat, and was thinking to myself thats awefully fast...btw it was the october issue i believe.

is3ooguy

Let's vote with our wallets.

I already did. 1 vote for the IS350

Me too
I traded in my IS300 for a 330i!

wale_bate1

"And the beat goes on..."
Sonny and Cher

Somebody way back said the red was better in person than on screen. That somebody was kee-rect! Much better in person and not the Bugundian tinge I had assumed.

Still, buying this car in red seems a little like buying an SL500 in red; somebody's compensating for something.

Engine break-in: this isn't just a can of worms, but a barrel of leeches. My take: the best precision machining still leaves imperfections on meshing and other contact surfaces. In the initial few hundred miles, therefore, microscopic metal residual is constantly being machined off of these parts and deposited in fluid. Keeping the RPMs not only down, but varied, helps to insure that the debris ends up sinking into filters, rather than in suspension doing quick damage on the very surfaces from which they come. I'm no technician, so maybe someone else has a better take. There is also a heating/cooling cycle argument having to do with expansion/contraction of seating parts, but I'm not a subscriber to that one, personally.

Subsequently, I'm fond of a first oil change right after break-in. If'n I recall, Lexota is too. I seem to remember that first oil-change is at 1K and is a freebie.

is3ooguy

I seem to remember that first oil-change is at 1K and is a freebie.

Not sure about this in the States but here in Canada first oil change on an IS300 was 8,000km and yes it was free. BTW, they also offer an inspection at 3,000km for free as well but no fluids are changed during this visit.
I'm in line with your thinking though; Thinking an oil change after break-in is a good idea. BMW scares me when they say my first oil change will be around 20,000km depending on my driving.

I love my new car but I miss driving a Lexus

power2k

I'm buying the IS 250 AWD. Do I need to purchase the undercoating service from dealer? Is this something already done in factory?
Thanks

wale_bate1

Just my opinion, but there are no "protective" applications you should get suckered into, uhh, I mean purchase from any dealership. True not only for undercoating, but also any kind of fabric or leather protections, or even VIN etching.

These are all Barnums, IMO.

priggly

I am beginning to think that with the telescoping wheel and driver seat preferences, the true size of the back seat will remain a matter of opinion.

But what is not a matter of opinion is that the interior volume of the back seat is a miniscule 34 cubic feet. This is tiny. The IS total interior volume is only 16 cubic feet larger than the MINI (86 cubic feet vs. 70 cubic feet). Your co-wowrker was not being sarcastic, he was being polite.

sczyzyk

Iam sure this topic has been beaten to death but does anyone have an exact number as to what the Is 350 is running in the 1/4?? I have read many different and conflicting reports.

tyorder1

I am at Lexus dealer right now, killing time using the free internet here while waiting on my SC430 oil change, and I can proudly say that yes that back seat is large enough for me and I'm 6'1". It wasn't the most comfortable back seat I've been in however it was large enough considering most people won't be buying these cars to drive around with 3 other plus 6 footers in the back!. Its larger than my current 01 A4 2.8 in the back so I guess to me its large enough. Also I find the seats in the front to be an improvement to what we've come to see from Lexus. Very comfy!

blueguydotcom

You got your seat comfortable in the front and then sat directly behind your front seat?

I don't get how this is possible. I adjusted the front seat to my specs and when I sat in the back my knees were pressed against the back of the front seat.

Are you guys splaying your legs or something?

wale_bate1

You know, I've been in my back seat with the front set for me, and I have no issues in the current car (for shorter drives of course). I'm 6'-0", mostly leg and about 180 or so (depending on the menu), so it doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.

cdnpinhead

A great many people apparently do the "adjust the front seat, then sit in the back" thing. As a result, my current vehicle (Lincoln LS), has a front seat that won't go back nearly far enough and, when put all the way forward, strains credibility as to what sort of creature would adjust it so.

It's apparent that the original designers arranged the seat travel to accomodate a large range of real people, but when the marketing guys saw what could happen in the back seat when someone like me (5'14") adjusted the front, moved the rails forward.

Oh boy.

magmir

Has anyone seen this color in real life? How blue is it? Would you consider it a "girl" color? I thought I wanted black or the granite mica (anyone see granite mica either?), but am thinking the car looks better in the lighter colors.

wale_bate1

(5'14")

That's a Canadian measurement, eh?
:P

natsukashi

I have seen the Breakwater Blue and it actually is a beautiful looking color. I wouldn't call it a "girl" color at all. It's more of a sliver blue than anything else. I would agree on your idea about the cars in the lighter colors. I am now driving the IS 250AWD in Tungsten Pearl which is more like a classic sliver. It's almost like there are 3 variations on silver offered. I had chosen the Breakwater Blue as my first choice but then changed it to the Tungsten Pearl since my last car was Pearl and it looks so nice at night and seems to give the color depth. The beauty of the lines of the car can be lost in a dark color IMPO plus I don't like to deal with looking at swirl marks on the finish of a dark car after time.

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/articles/publish/lexus_is250_pictures.shtml Check out this UK Lexus owners site to see the colors offered.

cdnpinhead

Just making sure everyone's paying attention. . .

wale_bate1

I find myself drawn to the white. I have to say, though, I saw black the other day, and it looks very good. No way in Hades I'd own a black car ever again, but it did look, well, commanding. Also made the car look a bit smaller, which is a good thing in my book.

I have difficulty understanding the need for three silvers in a small palette! Anybody seen the Glacier? Is there in fact any blue in that? Looks like silver to me.

socalcpa

Please help! I'm about to lease an IS 250 and no one seems to be able to give me an answer if MSD program applies and what effect it has on the MF.

Any info / feedback is appreciated.

blueguydotcom

They do MSDs on Lexus cars?

If it's like BMW's program, then here's the low down.

One MSD is equal to one month's payment. So if your payment is $450, you will pay an extra $450 at the start of the lease. This will lower your payment by 0.0001 money factor. When you return your lease or if your car is lost/stolen, you will receive your MSD back.

BMW only allows you to buy 5 MSDs. They used to allow 10. That means one could buy down a lease's money factor by 0.0010.

Assuming Lexus offers 5 MSDs and their MF is 0.0025 (6%), then 5 MSDS would give you a rate of 0.0020 (4.8%). It's not a massive difference when leases are high - 0.0025 for instance. When a lease is 10 or 12 then the savings ends up more impressive.

lbaily

Can someone please tell me what kind of tires are on the IS 250 AWD, manufacturer and model? Thanks.

socalcpa

Thanks for the info, but I'm trying to find out the details - how many deposits are allowed and by how much they reduce the MF. Lexus website has a general description of the program, but no specifics.

scotte1

Perhaps a wee bit off-topic, but, here comes another one of "those" questions. A friend has an automatic S4 and has begun stepping up the rhetoric in anticipation of my delivery of the 350. Assuming proper break-in and dry conditions at a dragstrip, I wonder whose ego will be bruised.

On another note, perhaps a bit more on-topic...Does anyone have any early recommendations for snow tires with the 350's staggered setup?

Thx.

wale_bate1

They're going to be close in a straight line, based on the numbers. So close, I wouldn't care to bet slips ahead of time. When the road curves, my gut (ever more capacious) says the S4 waves "bye-bye" to the IS in the rearview. Again, that's a paper/gut thing. S4 Avant has been under my butt before on the road and is on my short shopping list for May.

I don't work for them and I know I've mentioned them before, but if you want to know about tires, go to tirerack.com. It's the time of the season for snows, and their snow tire tutorial and packaged specials must be up by now. Hints for winter: I don't think you want to keep the snows staggered, and a wider snow tire is to be avoided.

Anyone else?

ivan_99

The 4.2L in the S4 has the torque advantage (340hp/302 ft/lb) and AWD so if there is a traction advantage he would have it.

You may surprise him...almost like being a teenager again...heh :P

scotte1

Thanks for the tip. I checked with the good folks at Tire Rack and they do not have any online packages available...they did recommend giving them a call due to the "unique technical aspects of this application." Hmmm...

I better call soon and see what's up, knowing the first snow in Chicago can come in a hurry. Don't think I want to be careening through intersections all winter.

scotte1

Ahh, the element of surprise. It would be worth a giggle. I haven't owned a quick car in a long time, so this does have the potential to make one feel like a teenager...albeit one with a family, mortgage, and a receeding hairline.

ivan_99

I hear ya

blueguydotcom

Only way to know that...call your lexus dealer. 2 minutes on the phone and you have your answer.

alex7037

I'm waiting for the IS convertible (if it ever actually drops), but as a backup plan, i may end up with the more practical IS 250. I have a couple questions for you RWD gurus...

I've only owned Front wheel drive cars. I've only had to drive in Northeastern winters (MA & RI), and i plan to stay here. Now my questions are:

I drive slowly even with FWD, obviously there is no replacement for driving slowly, safely, and carefully in winter weather.
- Can RWD + TRACTION CONTROL + Good winter tires tackle the snow and end up as sure footed as AWD?
- IS AWD really even that sure-footed?
- What is a staggered setup?

magmir

I guess I just need to keep going to the dealership to see it in person. I've been waiting for a new car for TEN years and now that the time is approaching I'm going somewhat crazy. At least I have the car narrowed down (IS 250 RWD, regular premium package, 18" wheels). Now it comes down to ext./int. color. Again, I was leaning towards black interior, but sat in both black and cashmere and the cashmere seemed nicer. Thoughts?

brydymond

I just ordered a IS250 AWD coming from a 2002 IS300 Sportcross. I live in Toronto and although its in Canada, the winters are not overly snowy, more icy in the city. I had the deal inked on the RWD, then last minute I changed to AWD for two reasons;

1) Although 90% of the time RWD is sufficient (with snows, TCS, VSC) there are times (ie. snow packed streets) where RWD can leave you stranded. I can think of several times I have been passed on snowy streets by Corollas with all seasons, particularly on hills. I am a cautious driver and have seen my fair share of AWD/4WDs in the ditch while I plough along in RWD (false sense of security) and anyone in Toronto knows that once it snows you are lucky to hit 40km/h. However, getting stuck stinks, particularly with a chain of cars behind you. For those few occassions I dropped the extra $2000.00 for AWD.
2) My second reason is since its a brand new car with no sales history I started thinking re-sale and related it to Audi. Several years ago I was looking at a used A4, the place I was looking had a beautiful green, front-trac A4 on the lot. It sat on the lot for probably 6 months. I imagine the same fate will come to the IS, particularly in snow-bound markets.

stickguy

just my opinion, but I don't think you will have the same issues selling a RWD Lexus as you would a FWD Audi (or Subaru in the old days).

dojo75

I've lived in St. Louis for the last 2 years and the winters there are not so bad. I usually stock about 200 lbs of dumbell weights in the trunk, turn on the traction control and snow settings and hold my breath. The IS300 is just horrible in snow so I'll say I've been lucky and have only spun out once (I was able to pull back on the road)
Well I just moved to Indianapolis and I hear the winters here are worse. I am planning on buying the IS350 NEXT year after the coupe and (hopefully) manual versions come out but don't want to blow close to a grand on snow tires that I will only use for a few months.
My question is : When trading in a car do you get anything for having the extra set of winter tires or are you just better off tossing those in the trash once spring hits? I suppose I could just call the dealership and find out but I want to see if anyone here has ever thought of the same thing.

wale_bate1

"- Can RWD + TRACTION CONTROL + Good winter tires tackle the snow and end up as sure footed as AWD?"

Two part question. Answer to the first part: RWD + VSC or rather VDIM now + good winter tires can handle the snow. I drove the snow in RWD with no systems assistance for years - no big deal. Second part: AWD with snows gives you traction at four corners as needed. So RWD will not be as sure-footed, but if you drive the inclement days as you suggest, it most likely won't matter.

"- IS AWD really even that sure-footed?"

With proper rubber in those same circumstances? Yes. Big problem is that some folks think it will keep them out of trouble regardless of how the drive. Wrong.

"- What is a staggered setup?"

A staggered set up is wider rubber in the rear than in the front. In a RWD car, this allows for more complete application of torque without sacrificing crisp turn in and overall steering feel up front.

IS350 with 18" wheels uses 255mm rubber in back with 225mm rubber up front (I thought it was 245 in back - I was wrong).

wale_bate1

I have a black interior now. I don't care for it. It's hotter in the heat, dull to look at, shows even the mere hint of dust and dirt off and makes for odd color matching between materials. Other than that it's OK I guess.

Tan or grey, says I. I really wish they'd offer a saddle option though...

aquaticexplore

I think you made a sound decision. I suspect AWD is really going to continue to take over. In Canada, you are asking for trouble with RWD, snow tires or not.

Did the dealer move off of MSRP? I suspect it may be too early yet to see this, but eventually they are going to have to offer significant comfort money to get the sales they supposedly want. What colour did you opt for?

That is a nice set of wheels. My wife usually couldn't care less about a car as long as it is dependable and has 4 tires, but when she saw a dark red one even she commented on how beautiful it was.

aquaticexplore

wale...

wouldn't the staggered set-up make it even more unstable during winter (better on dry pavement though)? With a wider rear tire, you get more snow accumulation under the tire and less pressure per square inch of tire contact, reducing friction and increasing slippage?

I think these rwd set-ups are really oversold - even with electronic aids - unless you live in an area that rarely or never gets snow. Ask guys with G35 sedans how they handle in the snow and it is not unlike an experience on a tobaggan. I suspect most other rwd cars are similar.

wale_bate1

Well, that's why I suggested earlier that when purchasing the snow tires a staggered set would be less than advisable. The snow tires should also be narrower than the summer set, from all I know.

Any decent sport sedan or coupe in a serious winter zone is a considered purchase. I don't care if it's RWD, FWD or AWD. As I said, I've driven non-nannied RWD in the snow quite a bit without incident or injury, so maybe the G35 drivers are just unpracticed in the art? Easy Does It is not just a motto for Clampers, you know!

alex7037

This is a tough descision. The winters in Rhode Island and Mass have been as follows for the past few years: starts out with light dustings, then you will get eventual snowstorms. IN MA they are good with plowing the roads, in RI they are not. At times the highway becomes so packed with snow that all lanes become one lane in the center for fear of sliding off the road. Since i am in RI way more than MA, this may eventually be a problem. My dilemma is this. while the 250 awd may be fun to get into both seasons, it's base is high enough for me to justify buying the 350

- Can RWD + VSC+TCS+Winter rubber handle driving on snow packed on the roads to about a quarter inch?? In the worst case scenarios, i'm driving on 80% snow, with patches of road exposed here and there. (they are really bad at towing)
- Can RWD make it up a snowy hill safely?
- Anyone have any clue how that rwd bias AWD system decides how much torque to send to the front wheels? I mean limited traction means limited traction, you either have traction or you don't...right? ( you physics ppl, this is in the friction chapter, please help)

stickguy

the tires make more of a difference than the car IMO. A lot of people with a G35, 3 series, etc. think they can run the standard extra wide low profile tires (even if all season) in the snow without a problem. But, it doesn't always work out.

In the snow, skinny is better. real wide rubber (especially low profile) doesn't lend itself to snow (they float instead of digging in). And, even the best all season (and the ones on a G are probably performance all season) don't compare to a real winter tire. All the electronic aids can try to help, but can't create traction where it doesn't exist

If you really have snowy conditions and want a car like this, srping for the dedicated snows, and get the same size (not staggered), and a -1 set up if it works on your car. That way, you will actually have traction to control! And of course, drive sensibly.

I used to drive a Duster with semi bald bias ply rear snows in upstate NY (aka snow belt mountain land) and managed just fine, so it can be done.

scotte1

And the rep at Tire Rack just confirmed your point. They advised me to try a 225 width snow tire all around instead of the staggered setup with the 255's in the rear, keeping the stock 18" rims.

However, this is in lieu of getting their hands on an actual IS350 so they can perform a battery of tests to determine the optimal setup. That should be in a couple weeks. I assume they'll then have a reduced wheel size and tire package that should do the trick just fine, as long as one does it nice and easy in the fluffy stuff.

wale_bate1

Yes. Good post.

Except for the bald-Duster part. You were nuts, man!

mikegiller

1) For the IS 350, we get VDIM, a combination of VSC, TRAC, ABS, and some other stuff. Nobody here on this forum has driven an IS 350 with the new VDIM in snow/ice yet so I would be able to say with confidence that nobody here could answer the question on how well it would perform.

2) Wait until winter and test drive the IS 350 with snow tires; that's what I am going to do... I live in Winterpeg, so I know winter driving!

Oh, and BTW, I went to the Lexus IS 250/350 unveiling yesterday (only a black on tan IS 250 RWD with premium leather package made it to the showing). I sat up front for a second time, set the seating position to a comfortable setting (oooooh sooooo comfortable... and low), and then sat in the back. You know what? The backseat ain't too shabby; it really depends on what you are comparing to. The issue of the backseat is not black or white, but a matter of opinion and my opinion is that if I can sit in the backseat, then 75% of people can fit in the backseat as well, but only 2 of them. For those who don't know, I am 5'11" and 195 lbs.

My comments on the cashmere leather: Gorgeous. I will most likely end up with it. It is so creamy, rich, and smooth.

My salesmen said he would let me know when they get in a 350 for a test-drive. I am still waiting...

wale_bate1

Wait, what did they mean by "stock 18" rims"? Do they mean fit the 225 snows to your Lexus alloys, or just use a standard package 18" steel rim with cover?

I can't imagine having the snows mounted and remounted on the alloys every year!

Yup, thinner in snow is better...

scotte1

Yeah, remounting every season would be a royal pain. I better confirm that. Thx.

wale_bate1

Well, even if they were suggesting to put 'em on the alloys, I wouldn't. Royal pain describes it pretty well!