Mike, I do not have links to the Automobile and M.P.H. magazine reviews - I receive the magazines - (and, if I had a scanner, it would probably be illegal for me to scan and post).
Note, both reviews are very positive and (to paraphrase)see the new IS as serious competition to the 3... and, VDIM as a positive (will make a good driver much better, etc.). Interior is "class-leading", IS350 is a "rocket", exterior styling is very "hot", quality of materials and fit and finish as Lexus-level/beyond reproach....
I really want the black leather, however, this is dependent on whether or not the IS 350 has command start..? If it does have command start then I don't need to sit in the scalding leather right away while the ventilated seats take care of the heat. Some info on this?
I read the Sept. issue of "Automobile" at Barnes & Noble and it looks like they felt the IS250 was underpowered (that will happen when you drive the IS350 first ). We really want AWD so for us it would be between the IS250 AWD and G35x, both with the Navi system. We rented a G35 a few weeks ago and really liked it. In fact if it wasn't for the new IS coming out in Oct., we would buy a G35x in the next couple of weeks.
The only issues for us concerning the new IS:
1) enough power (IS250) ? 2) backseat - enough leg room for two adults ?
The IS will have a better ride, interior, sound system and navi while the G35x has more power and may handle a little better. The Acura TL or even TSX may be a better value, but they're both FWD.
Will the ML sound system be part of the navi package on the IS250 ?
1) enough power (IS250) ? 2) backseat - enough leg room for two adults ?"
My thoughts, with the disclaimer that I haven't driven or sat in the car.
1) Not enough for me, especially with AWD. The IS250 AWD will probably have similar acceleration to a 4 cylinder Accord.
2) This is my big concern too. From the specs, it doesn't seem that any of my friends would like to sit back there for more than 30 minutes.
The G35x has enough power and back seat room. But as you said, the IS will almost definitely have bettern interior, ride comfort, navi and stereo. (Only with the Levinson though. I thought the base system in the 2006 GS really sucked.)
Guess we'll have to wait until October to properly compare.
We want to stick with Infiniti/Lexus or maybe Acura ? We'll wait for a test-drive of the IS250 AWD to see for ourselves, but it would have been better if Lexus gave us the GS 3.0L engine. We would then have the IS300 AWD (MMC in 2-3 years ?) and IS350.
BTW, that September Automobile mag article estimated that the base price of the IS350 will be $36,500. As tested with the Navi/Levinson was estimated at $42,500.
So we're looking at $37,000 cnd for a base IS 250. Power and Price are my only two concerns. Paying over $1700 a hp is extremly high. I'm expecting 0-60 to come in 7 seconds or less and I don't want to be let down. The exterior/interior look amazing, and the design quality of the latter looks extremly pleasing.
I think 0-60 will be closer to 8 seconds for the IS250 AWD. Can you imagine driving your IS250 and getting smoked by a 07 Camry V6 ? But, then again there's more to driving than raw power, right ?
1) enough power (IS250) ? 2) backseat - enough leg room for two adults ?
Here are excerpts from the Automobile article on these issues:
1) IS250 power: "These days, 204 hp and 185 Ibft of torque are nothing to crow about, so IS250 owners won't want to race for pink slips against V-6 Nissan Altimas and Mazda 6s, much less Toyota Camrys. The all-wheel-drive model saddled with extra 200 extra pounds and sold only with an automatic, is even more breathless. IS350 owners, on the other hand, don't have to worry about getting sand kicked in their faces...."
2) Back seat room:"The rear seats, which had been a joke - a painful joke - now offer enough legroom for a pair of living breathing adults. Tall drivers too will be a lot more comfortable, thanks to ample headroom and coocoonlike seats."
"While the IS 250 numbers are sluggish compared to the 350, if the 7.9-second estimate holds up the 250 should be as quick 0 to 60 mph as the outgoing IS 300, which ran 0 to 60 mph in 7.99 seconds in our AutoFile tests (Sept. 18, 2000)..."
No great loss, but no improvement.
"The IS 350’s biggest shortfall, especially for a car with 3 Series aspirations, is the lack of a manual transmission option. At BMW, in addition to slick-shifting six-speed automatics, 330i buyers can opt for a six-speed manual..."
The new 6-speed automatic should also help. Was the 7.9 second estimate for the IS250 AWD or RWD ? (keeping into account the extra weight of AWD)
(Buyers of awd models also would be advised to spend enough time test-driving to decide whether transfer-case protrusion into the driver’s side footwell serves as a leg rest or a pain in the calf.) from Autoweek
That could be a problem. I have a picture showing the transfer case and I wonder if it could cause some discomfort with my left leg.
Lexus is praying they get lots of 250 sales from low end bmw owners etc. As I see it, the refnement and badge are not sufficient reason for me to move from the tsx yet. If the time quoted above for the 250 holds, this car will also be slower than my 4 cylinder. In yr 2, when the manipulation ends and people can order 6 speed manual 350s or manual 250AWD or hopefully a 2.2L diesel, I will move to the latter.
Some of you are not looking at the full picture here. If all your decision will be based on HP and speed, then you are better off driving a motorbike that will get you to 60mph in a heartbeat. The IS is a marvel of technology, luxury, quality and safety. It will provide you with features you'd find in higher-end lux cars, all at a fairly affordable price. Bimmers have been selling with much LOWER hps for years, and people continue to buy the cars in bunches, so why dismiss the car without even driving it yet ? These days, many people don't drag race on freeways, and the 204HP will be plentiful for most in-city and freeway driving. If you can tolerate the high revving 4-banger in the FWD TSX, why won't a RWD 6-banger in the IS not be a much better car/drive ???
ome of you are not looking at the full picture here. If all your decision will be based on HP and speed, then you are better off driving a motorbike that will get you to 60mph in a heartbeat.
Many people see 30k plus and they'd like to have some semblance of acceleration performance mixed with some measure of luxury and refinement.
The IS is a marvel of technology, luxury, quality and safety.
There is nothing in the IS's technology, luxury levels or safety that = marvel. Nothing in this class is marvelous. It's entirely mediocre. Good interior = A4, TL. Lots of technological doodads that are worthless = 3 series (brake drying?!, active steering), TL (5.1 sound, bluetooth, best navi around). Quality = TL. Safety = the entire class.
Bimmers have been selling with much LOWER hps for years, and people continue to buy the cars in bunches, so why dismiss the car without even driving it yet ? These days, many people don't drag race on freeways, and the 204HP will be plentiful for most in-city and freeway driving. If you can tolerate the high revving 4-banger in the FWD TSX, why won't a RWD 6-banger in the IS not be a much better car/drive ???
I doubt it for the cost. The TSX with a 6 speed was an entertaining drive. For 26k it's a steal. If the IS250 starts at 27 and tops out at 30k with all features it might be worthwhile. Otherwise, like the e46 325i, it's a pretty overpriced badge car.
Just my two cents. I don't see anything marvelous about any car in the class and certainly not one that costs that much and offers nothing extra over the competition.
The IS350 is at least set apart for officially having the most power in the class.
You don't have to actually own anything. You just have to be "clocked" at 150 mph or better. I did it in a Chrysler 300 H many many years ago. Your best shot today would be at a Richard Petty Driving Experience.
Agreed. There is not enough difference between the TSX and IS250 for me to move - unless I wanted RWD or AWD. I don't go speeding around, so the HP difference and cornering ability, if any, is inconsequential to me. The TSX comes with lots of stuff that is optional on the lexus. It also seems to have a bigger back seat. I had to pick up 4 teenage boys at the movies last night and the though of stuffing 4 of them in an even smaller backseat is not something I want to do. If they came out with their Euro diesel, I would jump right now. Same for TSX: if they brought their diesel I would replace my current car. Chrysler/MB is supposedly going to lead a new diesel charge in North America. Typically, the Japanese will follow.
The IS is a beautiful looking car and will have top of the class quality. I also like my car and it is troublefree. So, until Lexus provides sufficient motivation, I am staying put.
Time quoted is for a RWD IS250. However, since the trial quoted (2000) for the previous model was for the automatic (no manual until '01), unless they were testing the auto IS250, this does not bode well...
Many people see 30k plus and they'd like to have some semblance of acceleration performance mixed with some measure of luxury and refinement
Are you implying that the IS250 does not have ALL of these for its price ? Luxury and refinement are two things the new IS have in spades, maybe more than its competitition.... As to performance, well, that is up to each individual....the reviews so far have been mixed...
There is nothing in the IS's technology, luxury levels or safety that = marvel. Nothing in this class is marvelous. It's entirely mediocre...
Mediocre ???? Maybe your definition of a car is a square box with 4 wheels... Let's see a few of the things you describe as mediocre that are available on the new IS:
powertrain: new dual vvt-i motor (direct fuel injection at both intake and exhaust) - unique to the class...
safety: PreCollision System (PCS) Dynamic Radar Cruise Control - both unique to class.. array of air bags: front, front-knee, front-side, front and rear, etc.
electronics: MP3/Windows media/iPod connection voice-activated NAV with back-up camera - all unique to class...
Here is what Autoweek had to say about the IS250/6MT: "For our money the best value lies in the rear-drive IS 250 equipped with the six-speed manual transmission. Of the 2.5-liter models, it is by far the best performer thanks to gearbox management via a smooth, direct linkage that helps get the most out of the smaller engine. This is also the model that, thanks to its intuitive road feel and balance, most closely emulates the 3 Series..."
Here is what Edmund's had to say about the Nav system in the IS: "The Gen-5 navigation system is the latest in digital mapping, and it displays through a new VGA monitor capable of 32,000 colors"
If your expectation of the new IS is that of a drag-racer, with M3-like handling at a Kia/Hyundai-like price, then you are not the target market for this car.... Get real.. for $30K these days, the best cars in the near or entry-lux are FWD and lack the heart of a true sport sedan. You need a RWD car and the IS250/6MT provides these in spades. If you are not satisfied, go ahead and pony up another $3K to get a 325i or go down scale and get a G35 and be done with it....
"If you are not satisfied, go ahead and pony up another $3K to get a 325i or go down scale and get a G35 and be done with it..."
Oac has called the tune. If you have any nigglings with what they're offering, fill out your form in triplicate and go lump it!
It may well turn out that that's just what will happen here. Notice that the reviews thus far are fairly dismissive of the 250 and focus on the 350 as being the model of substance. Pity but that the 350 is not the bread and butter model, nor where Toyota expects to pick up the growth.
As for all the gadgetry and other fluff? That's icing, not substance. If all you're looking for is a Lexus at 30 grand, there's the ES. Creampuff with icing galore. Anybody interested enough in driving to specify RWD in the first place is going to be looking for a "real sports sedan" and will test against the 325, and I suppose the G35. What's the business case for buying an IS250? Because it's a Lexus?
Anybody interested enough in driving to specify RWD in the first place is going to be looking for a "real sports sedan" ....
A real sport sedan ? Well I dare say the 325 ain't. Gotta go with Porsche/M3/M5/RS/WRX/Evo/etc... These are (to use your words) "real sport sedan". Now if you mean, entry-level/near-lux compact sport sedan, that is different. A 325i is a luxury compact sport sedan, so is the G35, A4, IS, etc... Each offer something for the buyer, otherwise everyone would buy just a single car.
Using reviews as a judge, you'd be hard pressed to come up with a consensus right about now. Autoweek praised the IS250/6MT, Automobile and Edmund's glossed over it. Let's see real-world drives by potential buyers... They are the ones that pony up the cash for these cars....
Gadgetry is fluff.... Then we may be living in the 18th century right about now. If you are not into technology, why not buy a horse buggy and troll around town with it. Technology in cars is here to stay... it will get even more ubiquitous in the future. We are talking progress here, while some will rather we remain mired in the past with hydraulic steering, roll-down windows, steel rims, passenger-side-only side mirror, etc...
This isn't about avoiding technology, as you well know, it's about the car. As you point out, the stuff is unavoidable and ubiquitous, so it's hardly a trumpet to blow for this car or any other. So why bother to list as if they were significant attributes? True to the Lexus POV, since the 250 isn't knocking 'em dead in the automotive press based on driving so far, we'll just focus on creature comforts and doo dads instead.
Autoweek didn't heep praise on the 250/6MT BTW, they simply said it was the combo to get if you were interested in the smaller engine. They liked the tranny. Pity you can't get it with the 350, isn't it?
Having owned a bmw e46 for 6 years and driving a is300 for several days ( rental when my wifes' car was in the shop) , Bmw cars inspire more confidence in everyday driving (cutting lanes, stopping, accelerating.) I also own a lexus rx300 suv and everytime my wife drives my car, she says the bmw seems to have bottomless power when she steps on the gas. It doesn't matter what the horsepower is, but torque is what moves the car. The old is300 was a well built car especially turning. But it will never have the prestige and driver confidence a bmw will have.
The outgoing IS 300 should not be compared to the new IS 250/350. They are totally different breeds of machine. Reviewers have said that the new IS is in every single way better than the outgoing model. And torque? How does 277 lb.-ft. sound? Don't knock it til ya try it.
In no way as well, should we be comparing how a 3.0 V6 RX 300 drives (how old is that engine again? 100 years old?) to a BMW 3-series sport sedan. The RX's engine has no sporting intentions...
Personally, regarding prestige, I would say Lexus is pretty high up there, it all depends on who you are trying to please? This is where prestige loses me. I am confident that the new IS 350 will fill all the driving voids in my life (heated/cooled leather seats, Mark Levinson stereo with DD/DTS/DVD-A/V, xenons, HORSEPOWER, razor sharp handling, Nav, amazing reliability, what else do I "need"?), so I would have to say, "This is prestigious enough for me!"
Performance and luxury. The car's lack of grunt means acceleration in all areas will be compromised - not just taking off from a stop but also out of corners.
new dual vvt-i motor (direct fuel injection at both intake and exhaust) - unique to the class...
Wow, and it so upped the ante that the engine makes a dazzling 206 hp/184 lb-ft of torque. not impressed if the changes don't translate into something special.
PreCollision System (PCS) worthless and already on other cars - MB's got the same dorky concept and BMW will probably force it on us soon too like their active steering garbage..
Dynamic Radar Cruise Control Totally worthless and also on other cars - e90 comes to mind for one (laser/radar - still equally useless).
array of air bags: front, front-knee, front-side, front and rear, etc. Gee, knee bags. Golly, that seals the deal, my knees will have airbags.
MP3/Windows media/iPod connection ho-hum it's on the e90 already.
voice-activated NAV with back-up camera Worthless and all over the acura/infiniti lineup.
Here is what Autoweek had to say about the IS250/6MT:
"While the IS 250 numbers are sluggish compared to the 350, if the 7.9-second estimate holds up the 250 should be as quick 0 to 60 mph as the outgoing IS 300, which ran 0 to 60 mph in 7.99 seconds in our AutoFile tests (Sept. 18, 2000)."
Here's what Edmunds said about the IS250's performance:
"The IS 250 cruises along freeways like the luxury car it is. The ride is controlled but soft. On twisting roads it sort of wafts along never doing anything that could upset the passenger cabin extensively. Exciting? Not really."
If your expectation of the new IS is that of a drag-racer, with M3-like handling at a Kia/Hyundai-like price, then you are not the target market for this car.... Get real.. for $30K these days, the best cars in the near or entry-lux are FWD and lack the heart of a true sport sedan. You need a RWD car and the IS250/6MT provides these in spades. If you are not satisfied, go ahead and pony up another $3K to get a 325i or go down scale and get a G35 and be done with it....
The G35 is the same target market as the IS250 and you can easily get into one for 30-32k. Infiniti moves over 5k a month. The 325i starts at 31k. Both cars have, according to Edmund's Road Test Editor Karl, nothing to fear from the IS:
"Well, [the IS] is not a class leader in sportiness. BMW's engineers can sleep easy (so can Audi's and Nissan's, for that matter...)."
"Then they proceed to outfit the IS with all sorts of restrictive electronics, which no serious BMW enthusiast, or driving enthusiast, is going to have any patience with. If Lexus had merely said, "We don't care about beating the current segment benchmark. We have our own philosophy on how to create a great sport sedan, and the new IS perfectly represents it." I would have called the sedan a great car without any disclaimers. As is, I have to make it clear to the reader that,'"It's still a great car, but in the context of the BMW 3 Series, which Lexus claims to be targeting, it falls short.' "
Normally I agree with your seemingly hard line stance on certain features, but Lexus and MB's take on PreCollision System (PCS) (or Pre-Safe on MB) isn't "forced" on anyone, unless you plan on having an accident. I don't see what the problem is with making a car as safe as possible. These systems, while tied into the stability programs of the respective makes, don't limit the fun of driving the car. They are there if have or get dangerously close to having an accident. I don't see what the problem would be with having this? Ditto for having airbags, they aren't ever going to be used unless the car is in a collision.
I agree about the things that intrude on the fun, like VDIM and other similar systems, but whats wrong with having the very best in safety equipment if it doesn't mess up the driving experience?
Isn't part of the reason for buying an upscale car to have the very best in safety compared to a "regular" car?
...as with reviewers, it goes both ways (let's not forget the good stuff too):
"An Intimidating Competitor With the structural heft of a beryllium atom, spectacular engines and exquisite assembly quality, the new IS is a car even committed Bimmer-philes should test-drive."
(Source: Inside Line: First Drive: 2006 Lexus IS 350)
"A very solid, capable and desirable luxury sedan the IS 350 is. And if you simply focus on acceleration numbers, you could even say it's "the new standard of class-leading performance." Now, where are the BMW keys?"
(Source: Inside Line: Full Test: 2006 Lexus IS 350)
Does anybody find it strange, off, (unsettling? un...?), for a reviewer reviewing a particular car to be at the end of the review for that car throw in the most biased opinion of them all? Hardly the kind of impression you want to leave the reader at the end of a review if the point was to let the reader come to their own conclusion. eek
"If the IS is supposed to be billed as more BMW than a BMW, it falls a touch short in my book. However, its combination of superior comfort wrapped in a pleasing style is sure to satisfy almost anyone. Being an Angeleno, I think I'd rather have the superior comfort of the Lexus as I sit in rush-hour traffic. Superior handling does nothing for me at 5 miles per hour down the 405." -Senior Photo Editor Scott Jacobs
This guy puts it the best I believe. The decision is all based on your priorities. Afterall, a sedan is for most part, a sedan. Now, where are the keys to my Ferrari (forget BMW 3)! (What Karl should have said)
"Handling is razor-sharp..." - Road Test Editor Dan Kan
The only thing I can come up with here is: How razor sharp are you willing to get your handling before you are satisfied that you made the correct "compromises" in choosing your car? Now, where are the keys to my razor-sharp handling luxury rocket-car with all the amenities I could ask for but is not a BMW 3?
I don't look to crash ratings, collision safety features or number of airbags when determining which car to buy. Those are invisible elements to me...essentially as worthless as navi or laser cruise control.
I'm not opposed to them. They just don't influence my purchasing decision. you could tell me one car has a 2 star crash rating and the other 5...that wouldn't influence me either direction. My response, "Ah but how do they drive?"
Like BMW's supposed safety feature of "brake-drying" or the weird rollback assist thing on the IS and e90, I don't see a pressing need for these things. 100+ years of cars and we've survived without brake drying or knee airbags...
" I don't see a pressing need for these things. 100+ years of cars and we've survived without brake drying or knee airbags..."
I'm shocked. Tell that to the countless amount of people killed in car accidents and their unfortunate families. Human life is far more important than some rather vain things.
Safety feature are very important in selecting a car. I know that when I have kids or when I'm with my loved ones, I will be glad that the car I chose has safety features that will protect them in the case of an accident. Thank you Lexus for making the IS a safe vehicle to drive! I for one am happy that in case of an accident my knees will not need reconstructive surgery, among other things. Am I alone here? :surprise:
I'm not opposed to them. They just don't influence my purchasing decision. you could tell me one car has a 2 star crash rating and the other 5...that wouldn't influence me either direction. My response, "Ah but how do they drive?"
Ok, gotcha. I would ask the same thing along with how does it "look", but I still might have a problem with a car with a 2 star crash rating in a day where everyone gets a 4 stars and lots have 5.
new dual vvt-i motor (direct fuel injection at both intake and exhaust)
The vvt-i portion works on both intake and exhaust valves but the DI is in neither - straight into the cylinder. :shades:
Let's face it, most of the features that are touted are pointed out so the marketeers have something to tout. I'm sure some MB marketeer could tout the fact that MB spends more engineering time than anyone else at having its doors thunk just right - so what? Within a certain segment most cars of the same vintage (give or take a couple of years) have the about the same features. It's unlikely you will have big differences cause then the vehicle will fall out of that segment. A4 has direct injection - so what? It gets its 200HP differently than Lexus - so what? Some folks get lost in the details - look at the big picture first then start to wittle it down.
Biker, who cares less about Lexus prestige and more about the fact the IS250 6MT might end up being the least expensive 4dr small MT RWD sedan in the US.
Thank you Lexus for making the IS a safe vehicle to drive!
Nonsense, man. All car makers factor safety in today, even GM (minivans vastly improved). The real issue is whether one wants your car to automatically slow as you approach another. I will bet that it is the 1st option turned off in the IS. People in IS's like to drive, and if someone is in their way, they may creep up on them. This technology is for 65+ year olds.
Same for lane departure warnings. Man, I would turn that thing off the 1st time I got in the car. [I don't know if this car has this, but it is bogus tech nevertheless].
These types of technology are total fluff and I think ill-suited for the IS. Perhaps the ES or LS.
The IS250 with PCS will not cost about $10K more than an IS250 without PCS. It should costs around $3K. It also will come with DRCC. It is optional so you dont have to buy it if you dont want it or need it. The IS250 will be one of the cheaper cars that will have it optional.
If you are comparing with a base IS it might. While lots of things are listed as optional you have very little choice in the real world when it comes to configuring most cars. How much you want to bet that cars with PCS will also have just about every other option already installed also - basically fully loaded. You won't be able to find an IS250 on a lot with just PCS as the only option.
I agree biker4. Would most ppl want most of the features that the Lexus IS has? I kinda would. I would buy most of the options that i need or want. Most of these options are available on more expensive cars.
Does the BMW 3-series have SMART KEY? I am not sure.
I gotta echo Mike here... Gee, do you know how many people die in car accidents a year ??? To imagine that all you care about are vain things and not about YOUR life on the roads, is quite, ehmmm... surprising ! But YMMV
Yeah.. all cars are *safe* these days, but what exactly is the purpose of LUXURY sedans, to which the IS falls under ? Merc1 puts it best, safety is as important as driving, afterall you may one day be thankful you have that front-knee airbag to protect you from become a paraplegic.
Enthusiasts without concern for their lives are simply living in a fool's paradise, imo.
I gotta echo Mike here... Gee, do you know how many people die in car accidents a year ??? To imagine that all you care about are vain things and not about YOUR life on the roads, is quite, ehmmm... surprising ! But YMMV
Vain? Vanity = buying a car for looks or for useless bling-bling things like Navi and laser cruise control.
Yeah.. all cars are *safe* these days, but what exactly is the purpose of LUXURY sedans, to which the IS falls under ? Merc1 puts it best, safety is as important as driving, afterall you may one day be thankful you have that front-knee airbag to protect you from become a paraplegic.
Sorry, safety features are just expected. All the cars have stability and airbags and crash protection and the like. Ho-hum. It's expected..just as it's expected in this class for the cars to have decent power.
Sorry, safety features are just expected. All the cars have stability and airbags and crash protection and the like. Ho-hum...
But you said you don't concern yourself with 2-star or 5-star crash ratings, only with how the car drives.... This is the point being made here. Safety features are expected but some cars are *more safe* than others. Although we'd rather not want to find out....
As to what you consider are *useless bling-bling things like Navi and laser cruise*, I don't know about you, but majority of people spend time inside their cars while driving, and these features are there for your driving pleasure. CC has been standard on vehicles for over a decade now, did you have BMW remove/disable this from your 330 ? And Navi is an option, for people like you who don't want one, why does it bother you that others want it ???
I propose to electronically limit your speed to 90 mph max when you get on the freeway. And, I believe it will reduce fatal accidents dramatically, yet no one is willing to do so even though we have the technology.
The reality is that it is how you drive the car, and frankly, I think all this "Safety Features" make people drive less careful. Just think about this. People will drive extra careful if they know they will die if they get into accidents.
I think we should take all the ABS, stability control, and... etc away from the cars. And, instead of playing the hp game as we see it now, we should limit the max hp to 200, and max speed to 90 mph. And, impose huge penalty to people who want cars that have specs that are beyond that.
I am pretty sure automobile industry will go out of business very soon:-)
This is a doable solution to a lot of automobile related issues that we all face now, but the sad thing is no one in their right mind would dare to try it.
I think Lexus is going the right direction with IS350.
Every review I've read says states that the IS350 is an exceptional automobile. The only critique I've heard is that it's not available with a manual and you cannot disable the VDIM but it is *STILL* a very driveable automobile.
Personally, I like it and just may get one. And yes, I like the navi and the laser cruise.
And I must say that I find the poseurs on this board hilarious when they start talking about the BMW 3-series as if it's the end all and be all of dyanmic or sporty driving. GET REAL!
If you want to go BMW go M5 or (respectfully) shut up. Or keep driving that 330i as if you're doing something as I smoke you in a Porsche (admittedly) 996.
And as for the Lexus IS250 being underpowered at 204hp and 185 lb-ft of torque; what is so inferior to that as the BMW 325i at 215hp and 184lb-ft of torque?
Wow! BIG DIFFERENCE!
There is an old saying that when you throw a rock in a pack of dogs, you can tell the one you hit because he's the one that howls. From all the howling some of these BMW owners are doing, I guess Lexus hit the mark with the IS series.
Dont forget the Lexus IS 250 is already rated with the new standards and BMW still hasnt revised their ratings. So the BMW may have around 205+/-hp with most cars losing at least 10hp with new ratings.
Acura Rl - 300hp to 290hp Honda Odyssey - 255hp to 244 Toyota Avalon - 280hp to 268hp
The IS250 and the 325i are not very different. I agree, its not a big difference. The IS250 is not underpowered and has adequate power for everyday driving.
"Every review I've read says states that the IS350 is an exceptional automobile..."
Bingo. They all talk about the 350. The 250 gets "also ran" status, by and large. The more we read, the more business case erodes to choose the 250 over other options. Unfortunately for the sake of any rational conversation, the Lexophiles cover their eyes and stuff their pinkies in their ears and regurgitate about doo dads and gizmology and the 350 rather than accept the fact that Lexus appears to have missed their own self-proclaimed target of eclipsing the 3-series yet again. Can't wait to drive it and find out for sure.
"From all the howling some of these BMW owners are doing, I guess Lexus hit the mark with the IS series..."
Doesn't seem so from the bulk of the reviews so far. Strangely enough, I'm a Lexus owner and current IS fan.
Dont forget the Lexus IS 250 is already rated with the new standards and BMW still hasnt revised their ratings. So the BMW may have around 205+/-hp with most cars losing at least 10hp with new ratings.
Actually, any car from Audi/BMW that is MY 06 lists horsepower in SAE.
The IS250 has a little more power than a 98 Honda Accord V6 (200 hp/195 lb-ft). Don't tell me the car isn't underpowered in 2006. Every review has mentioned that the IS250 is as slow or slower than the outgoing IS300.
All cars have enough power for "everyday driving". ALL cars.
When you pay $30k+ for a car, one tends to expect a little more than "everyday" power. The question is, how much power does a car have compared to other cars in its class and price point. The IS250 will probably have the slowest acceleration times in this class. The Audi 2.0T got a 0-60 of 6.4s in a R&T test. I don't think the IS250 will even touch that.
I'm not denying that the car will probably be near or at the top of this class in terms of features, safety, materials, ergonomics, stereo and comfort. But the IS250 will be at the bottom in terms of power and room. To me, power and room are part of the luxury equation.
I'm not denying that the car will probably be near or at the top of this class in terms of features, safety, materials, ergonomics, stereo and comfort. But the IS250 will be at the bottom in terms of power and room. To me, power and room are part of the luxury equation.
Well said, jrock...That's why there is the IS350, for those who desire a little more umph than the IS250 provides. The IS250 will satisfy all but the power-hungry folks.
The new 325i is 6.7 to 60 for the manual, and 7.2 for the step. If the 250 is, as the Autoweek test suggested, at 7.9, it is at a disadvantage out of the gate. I'm not saying it would make a difference to me personally, but the average consumer? That's a full second, plus. Let's not forget that Lexus has long (3 years) touted this offering as their entry perfomance lux car.
So many in here and elsewhere harped on my gen IS for being slightly underpowered... ;-]
Well, and let's talk realistic: I'm in the current gen and the acceleration is not an issue for me except for the very rarest of circumstances, but there's a difference between what I'm driving and going shopping. Most people start their process by the numbers or by styling, for better or worse, and this car realistically distinguishes itself in neither area. It's nice looking, but not inspiring, and the numbers for the 250 are in the range, but nothing to drool over, and from what we know of pricing and options so far, it's comparably a value, but not exactly a stellar bargain.
Again, there are fewer reasons in a real buyer's world to opt for the 250 over other available offerings, and that's the major volume, bread and butter group of variants. From the horse's mouth at Lexus they don't expect the volume to come from the 350, yet that's where the discussion always heads.
Comments
Mike, I do not have links to the Automobile and M.P.H. magazine reviews - I receive the magazines - (and, if I had a scanner, it would probably be illegal for me to scan and post).
Note, both reviews are very positive and (to paraphrase)see the new IS as serious competition to the 3... and, VDIM as a positive (will make a good driver much better, etc.). Interior is "class-leading", IS350 is a "rocket", exterior styling is very "hot", quality of materials and fit and finish as Lexus-level/beyond reproach....
The magazines might be on newstand by now. Cheers
The only issues for us concerning the new IS:
1) enough power (IS250) ?
2) backseat - enough leg room for two adults ?
The IS will have a better ride, interior, sound system and navi while the G35x has more power and may handle a little better. The Acura TL or even TSX may be a better value, but they're both FWD.
Will the ML sound system be part of the navi package on the IS250 ?
If you want to be able to hustle, then the Is250 AWD will not be your best choice.
Might consider an A3 Quattro (roomy backseat compared to a 3 and probably an IS) with the V6 or an A4 Avant Quattro.
1) enough power (IS250) ?
2) backseat - enough leg room for two adults ?"
My thoughts, with the disclaimer that I haven't driven or sat in the car.
1) Not enough for me, especially with AWD. The IS250 AWD will probably have similar acceleration to a 4 cylinder Accord.
2) This is my big concern too. From the specs, it doesn't seem that any of my friends would like to sit back there for more than 30 minutes.
The G35x has enough power and back seat room. But as you said, the IS will almost definitely have bettern interior, ride comfort, navi and stereo. (Only with the Levinson though. I thought the base system in the 2006 GS really sucked.)
Guess we'll have to wait until October to properly compare.
1) enough power (IS250) ?
2) backseat - enough leg room for two adults ?
Here are excerpts from the Automobile article on these issues:
1) IS250 power: "These days, 204 hp and 185 Ibft of torque are nothing to crow about, so IS250 owners won't want to race for pink slips against V-6 Nissan Altimas and Mazda 6s, much less Toyota Camrys. The all-wheel-drive model saddled with extra 200 extra pounds and sold only with an automatic, is even more breathless. IS350 owners, on the other hand, don't have to worry about getting sand kicked in their faces...."
2) Back seat room: "The rear seats, which had been a joke - a painful joke - now offer enough legroom for a pair of living breathing adults. Tall drivers too will be a lot more comfortable, thanks to ample headroom and coocoonlike seats."
Hope these answers help you....
Autoweek chimes in.
"While the IS 250 numbers are sluggish compared to the 350, if the 7.9-second estimate holds up the 250 should be as quick 0 to 60 mph as the outgoing IS 300, which ran 0 to 60 mph in 7.99 seconds in our AutoFile tests (Sept. 18, 2000)..."
No great loss, but no improvement.
"The IS 350’s biggest shortfall, especially for a car with 3 Series aspirations, is the lack of a manual transmission option. At BMW, in addition to slick-shifting six-speed automatics, 330i buyers can opt for a six-speed manual..."
Well DUH!
(Buyers of awd models also would be advised to spend enough time test-driving to decide whether transfer-case protrusion into the driver’s side footwell serves as a leg rest or a pain in the calf.) from Autoweek
That could be a problem. I have a picture showing the transfer case and I wonder if it could cause some discomfort with my left leg.
Many people see 30k plus and they'd like to have some semblance of acceleration performance mixed with some measure of luxury and refinement.
The IS is a marvel of technology, luxury, quality and safety.
There is nothing in the IS's technology, luxury levels or safety that = marvel. Nothing in this class is marvelous. It's entirely mediocre. Good interior = A4, TL. Lots of technological doodads that are worthless = 3 series (brake drying?!, active steering), TL (5.1 sound, bluetooth, best navi around). Quality = TL. Safety = the entire class.
Bimmers have been selling with much LOWER hps for years, and people continue to buy the cars in bunches, so why dismiss the car without even driving it yet ? These days, many people don't drag race on freeways, and the 204HP will be plentiful for most in-city and freeway driving. If you can tolerate the high revving 4-banger in the FWD TSX, why won't a RWD 6-banger in the IS not be a much better car/drive ???
I doubt it for the cost. The TSX with a 6 speed was an entertaining drive. For 26k it's a steal. If the IS250 starts at 27 and tops out at 30k with all features it might be worthwhile. Otherwise, like the e46 325i, it's a pretty overpriced badge car.
Just my two cents. I don't see anything marvelous about any car in the class and certainly not one that costs that much and offers nothing extra over the competition.
The IS350 is at least set apart for officially having the most power in the class.
The IS is a beautiful looking car and will have top of the class quality. I also like my car and it is troublefree. So, until Lexus provides sufficient motivation, I am staying put.
Are you implying that the IS250 does not have ALL of these for its price ? Luxury and refinement are two things the new IS have in spades, maybe more than its competitition.... As to performance, well, that is up to each individual....the reviews so far have been mixed...
There is nothing in the IS's technology, luxury levels or safety that = marvel. Nothing in this class is marvelous. It's entirely mediocre...
Mediocre ???? Maybe your definition of a car is a square box with 4 wheels... Let's see a few of the things you describe as mediocre that are available on the new IS:
powertrain:
new dual vvt-i motor (direct fuel injection at both intake and exhaust)
- unique to the class...
safety:
PreCollision System (PCS)
Dynamic Radar Cruise Control
- both unique to class..
array of air bags: front, front-knee, front-side, front and rear, etc.
electronics:
MP3/Windows media/iPod connection
voice-activated NAV with back-up camera
- all unique to class...
Here is what Autoweek had to say about the IS250/6MT:
"For our money the best value lies in the rear-drive IS 250 equipped with the six-speed manual transmission. Of the 2.5-liter models, it is by far the best performer thanks to gearbox management via a smooth, direct linkage that helps get the most out of the smaller engine. This is also the model that, thanks to its intuitive road feel and balance, most closely emulates the 3 Series..."
source: http://www.autoweek.com/
Here is what Edmund's had to say about the Nav system in the IS:
"The Gen-5 navigation system is the latest in digital mapping, and it displays through a new VGA monitor capable of 32,000 colors"
source: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=106607
If your expectation of the new IS is that of a drag-racer, with M3-like handling at a Kia/Hyundai-like price, then you are not the target market for this car.... Get real.. for $30K these days, the best cars in the near or entry-lux are FWD and lack the heart of a true sport sedan. You need a RWD car and the IS250/6MT provides these in spades. If you are not satisfied, go ahead and pony up another $3K to get a 325i or go down scale and get a G35 and be done with it....
Oac has called the tune. If you have any nigglings with what they're offering, fill out your form in triplicate and go lump it!
It may well turn out that that's just what will happen here. Notice that the reviews thus far are fairly dismissive of the 250 and focus on the 350 as being the model of substance. Pity but that the 350 is not the bread and butter model, nor where Toyota expects to pick up the growth.
As for all the gadgetry and other fluff? That's icing, not substance. If all you're looking for is a Lexus at 30 grand, there's the ES. Creampuff with icing galore. Anybody interested enough in driving to specify RWD in the first place is going to be looking for a "real sports sedan" and will test against the 325, and I suppose the G35. What's the business case for buying an IS250? Because it's a Lexus?
Get real indeed!
A real sport sedan ? Well I dare say the 325 ain't. Gotta go with Porsche/M3/M5/RS/WRX/Evo/etc... These are (to use your words) "real sport sedan". Now if you mean, entry-level/near-lux compact sport sedan, that is different. A 325i is a luxury compact sport sedan, so is the G35, A4, IS, etc... Each offer something for the buyer, otherwise everyone would buy just a single car.
Using reviews as a judge, you'd be hard pressed to come up with a consensus right about now. Autoweek praised the IS250/6MT, Automobile and Edmund's glossed over it. Let's see real-world drives by potential buyers... They are the ones that pony up the cash for these cars....
Gadgetry is fluff.... Then we may be living in the 18th century right about now. If you are not into technology, why not buy a horse buggy and troll around town with it. Technology in cars is here to stay... it will get even more ubiquitous in the future. We are talking progress here, while some will rather we remain mired in the past with hydraulic steering, roll-down windows, steel rims, passenger-side-only side mirror, etc...
Get real.. indeed.. wale_
This isn't about avoiding technology, as you well know, it's about the car. As you point out, the stuff is unavoidable and ubiquitous, so it's hardly a trumpet to blow for this car or any other. So why bother to list as if they were significant attributes? True to the Lexus POV, since the 250 isn't knocking 'em dead in the automotive press based on driving so far, we'll just focus on creature comforts and doo dads instead.
Autoweek didn't heep praise on the 250/6MT BTW, they simply said it was the combo to get if you were interested in the smaller engine. They liked the tranny. Pity you can't get it with the 350, isn't it?
In no way as well, should we be comparing how a 3.0 V6 RX 300 drives (how old is that engine again? 100 years old?) to a BMW 3-series sport sedan. The RX's engine has no sporting intentions...
Personally, regarding prestige, I would say Lexus is pretty high up there, it all depends on who you are trying to please? This is where prestige loses me. I am confident that the new IS 350 will fill all the driving voids in my life (heated/cooled leather seats, Mark Levinson stereo with DD/DTS/DVD-A/V, xenons, HORSEPOWER, razor sharp handling, Nav, amazing reliability, what else do I "need"?), so I would have to say, "This is prestigious enough for me!"
new dual vvt-i motor (direct fuel injection at both intake and exhaust)
- unique to the class...
Wow, and it so upped the ante that the engine makes a dazzling 206 hp/184 lb-ft of torque. not impressed if the changes don't translate into something special.
PreCollision System (PCS)
worthless and already on other cars - MB's got the same dorky concept and BMW will probably force it on us soon too like their active steering garbage..
Dynamic Radar Cruise Control
Totally worthless and also on other cars - e90 comes to mind for one (laser/radar - still equally useless).
array of air bags: front, front-knee, front-side, front and rear, etc.
Gee, knee bags. Golly, that seals the deal, my knees will have airbags.
MP3/Windows media/iPod connection
ho-hum it's on the e90 already.
voice-activated NAV with back-up camera
Worthless and all over the acura/infiniti lineup.
Here is what Autoweek had to say about the IS250/6MT:
"While the IS 250 numbers are sluggish compared to the 350, if the 7.9-second estimate holds up the 250 should be as quick 0 to 60 mph as the outgoing IS 300, which ran 0 to 60 mph in 7.99 seconds in our AutoFile tests (Sept. 18, 2000)."
source: http://www.autoweek.com/
Here's what Edmunds said about the IS250's performance:
"The IS 250 cruises along freeways like the luxury car it is. The ride is controlled but soft. On twisting roads it sort of wafts along never doing anything that could upset the passenger cabin extensively. Exciting? Not really."
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=106455
If your expectation of the new IS is that of a drag-racer, with M3-like handling at a Kia/Hyundai-like price, then you are not the target market for this car.... Get real.. for $30K these days, the best cars in the near or entry-lux are FWD and lack the heart of a true sport sedan. You need a RWD car and the IS250/6MT provides these in spades. If you are not satisfied, go ahead and pony up another $3K to get a 325i or go down scale and get a G35 and be done with it....
The G35 is the same target market as the IS250 and you can easily get into one for 30-32k. Infiniti moves over 5k a month. The 325i starts at 31k. Both cars have, according to Edmund's Road Test Editor Karl, nothing to fear from the IS:
"Well, [the IS] is not a class leader in sportiness. BMW's engineers can sleep easy (so can Audi's and Nissan's, for that matter...)."
editor_karl, "Karl's Daily Log Book" #983, 15 Jul 2005 9:02 pm
Karl also had this to say:
"Then they proceed to outfit the IS with all sorts of restrictive electronics, which no serious BMW enthusiast, or driving enthusiast, is going to have any patience with. If Lexus had merely said, "We don't care about beating the current segment benchmark. We have our own philosophy on how to create a great sport sedan, and the new IS perfectly represents it." I would have called the sedan a great car without any disclaimers. As is, I have to make it clear to the reader that,'"It's still a great car, but in the context of the BMW 3 Series, which Lexus claims to be targeting, it falls short.' "
editor_karl, "Karl's Daily Log Book" #1292, 2 Aug 2005 6:58 pm
I agree about the things that intrude on the fun, like VDIM and other similar systems, but whats wrong with having the very best in safety equipment if it doesn't mess up the driving experience?
Isn't part of the reason for buying an upscale car to have the very best in safety compared to a "regular" car?
M
"An Intimidating Competitor
With the structural heft of a beryllium atom, spectacular engines and exquisite assembly quality, the new IS is a car even committed Bimmer-philes should test-drive."
(Source: Inside Line: First Drive: 2006 Lexus IS 350)
"A very solid, capable and desirable luxury sedan the IS 350 is. And if you simply focus on acceleration numbers, you could even say it's "the new standard of class-leading performance." Now, where are the BMW keys?"
(Source: Inside Line: Full Test: 2006 Lexus IS 350)
Does anybody find it strange, off, (unsettling? un...?), for a reviewer reviewing a particular car to be at the end of the review for that car throw in the most biased opinion of them all? Hardly the kind of impression you want to leave the reader at the end of a review if the point was to let the reader come to their own conclusion. eek
"If the IS is supposed to be billed as more BMW than a BMW, it falls a touch short in my book. However, its combination of superior comfort wrapped in a pleasing style is sure to satisfy almost anyone. Being an Angeleno, I think I'd rather have the superior comfort of the Lexus as I sit in rush-hour traffic. Superior handling does nothing for me at 5 miles per hour down the 405." -Senior Photo Editor Scott Jacobs
This guy puts it the best I believe. The decision is all based on your priorities. Afterall, a sedan is for most part, a sedan. Now, where are the keys to my Ferrari (forget BMW 3)! (What Karl should have said)
"Handling is razor-sharp..." - Road Test Editor Dan Kan
The only thing I can come up with here is: How razor sharp are you willing to get your handling before you are satisfied that you made the correct "compromises" in choosing your car? Now, where are the keys to my razor-sharp handling luxury rocket-car with all the amenities I could ask for but is not a BMW 3?
I'm not opposed to them. They just don't influence my purchasing decision. you could tell me one car has a 2 star crash rating and the other 5...that wouldn't influence me either direction. My response, "Ah but how do they drive?"
Like BMW's supposed safety feature of "brake-drying" or the weird rollback assist thing on the IS and e90, I don't see a pressing need for these things. 100+ years of cars and we've survived without brake drying or knee airbags...
I'm shocked. Tell that to the countless amount of people killed in car accidents and their unfortunate families. Human life is far more important than some rather vain things.
Safety feature are very important in selecting a car. I know that when I have kids or when I'm with my loved ones, I will be glad that the car I chose has safety features that will protect them in the case of an accident. Thank you Lexus for making the IS a safe vehicle to drive! I for one am happy that in case of an accident my knees will not need reconstructive surgery, among other things. Am I alone here? :surprise:
Ok, gotcha. I would ask the same thing along with how does it "look", but I still might have a problem with a car with a 2 star crash rating in a day where everyone gets a 4 stars and lots have 5.
M
The vvt-i portion works on both intake and exhaust valves but the DI is in neither - straight into the cylinder. :shades:
Let's face it, most of the features that are touted are pointed out so the marketeers have something to tout. I'm sure some MB marketeer could tout the fact that MB spends more engineering time than anyone else at having its doors thunk just right - so what? Within a certain segment most cars of the same vintage (give or take a couple of years) have the about the same features. It's unlikely you will have big differences cause then the vehicle will fall out of that segment. A4 has direct injection - so what? It gets its 200HP differently than Lexus - so what? Some folks get lost in the details - look at the big picture first then start to wittle it down.
Biker, who cares less about Lexus prestige and more about the fact the IS250 6MT might end up being the least expensive 4dr small MT RWD sedan in the US.
Nonsense, man. All car makers factor safety in today, even GM (minivans vastly improved). The real issue is whether one wants your car to automatically slow as you approach another. I will bet that it is the 1st option turned off in the IS. People in IS's like to drive, and if someone is in their way, they may creep up on them. This technology is for 65+ year olds.
Same for lane departure warnings. Man, I would turn that thing off the 1st time I got in the car. [I don't know if this car has this, but it is bogus tech nevertheless].
These types of technology are total fluff and I think ill-suited for the IS. Perhaps the ES or LS.
The split airbag in front sounds cool.
Does the BMW 3-series have SMART KEY? I am not sure.
Yeah.. all cars are *safe* these days, but what exactly is the purpose of LUXURY sedans, to which the IS falls under ? Merc1 puts it best, safety is as important as driving, afterall you may one day be thankful you have that front-knee airbag to protect you from become a paraplegic.
Enthusiasts without concern for their lives are simply living in a fool's paradise, imo.
Vain? Vanity = buying a car for looks or for useless bling-bling things like Navi and laser cruise control.
Yeah.. all cars are *safe* these days, but what exactly is the purpose of LUXURY sedans, to which the IS falls under ? Merc1 puts it best, safety is as important as driving, afterall you may one day be thankful you have that front-knee airbag to protect you from become a paraplegic.
Sorry, safety features are just expected. All the cars have stability and airbags and crash protection and the like. Ho-hum. It's expected..just as it's expected in this class for the cars to have decent power.
But you said you don't concern yourself with 2-star or 5-star crash ratings, only with how the car drives.... This is the point being made here. Safety features are expected but some cars are *more safe* than others. Although we'd rather not want to find out....
As to what you consider are *useless bling-bling things like Navi and laser cruise*, I don't know about you, but majority of people spend time inside their cars while driving, and these features are there for your driving pleasure. CC has been standard on vehicles for over a decade now, did you have BMW remove/disable this from your 330 ? And Navi is an option, for people like you who don't want one, why does it bother you that others want it ???
The reality is that it is how you drive the car, and frankly, I think all this "Safety Features" make people drive less careful. Just think about this. People will drive extra careful if they know they will die if they get into accidents.
I think we should take all the ABS, stability control, and... etc away from the cars. And, instead of playing the hp game as we see it now, we should limit the max hp to 200, and max speed to 90 mph. And, impose huge penalty to people who want cars that have specs that are beyond that.
I am pretty sure automobile industry will go out of business very soon:-)
This is a doable solution to a lot of automobile related issues that we all face now, but the sad thing is no one in their right mind would dare to try it.
I think Lexus is going the right direction with IS350.
Personally, I like it and just may get one. And yes, I like the navi and the laser cruise.
And I must say that I find the poseurs on this board hilarious when they start talking about the BMW 3-series as if it's the end all and be all of dyanmic or sporty driving. GET REAL!
If you want to go BMW go M5 or (respectfully) shut up. Or keep driving that 330i as if you're doing something as I smoke you in a Porsche (admittedly) 996.
And as for the Lexus IS250 being underpowered at 204hp and 185 lb-ft of torque; what is so inferior to that as the BMW 325i at 215hp and 184lb-ft of torque?
Wow! BIG DIFFERENCE!
There is an old saying that when you throw a rock in a pack of dogs, you can tell the one you hit because he's the one that howls. From all the howling some of these BMW owners are doing, I guess Lexus hit the mark with the IS series.
Acura Rl - 300hp to 290hp
Honda Odyssey - 255hp to 244
Toyota Avalon - 280hp to 268hp
The IS250 and the 325i are not very different. I agree, its not a big difference. The IS250 is not underpowered and has adequate power for everyday driving.
Bingo. They all talk about the 350. The 250 gets "also ran" status, by and large. The more we read, the more business case erodes to choose the 250 over other options. Unfortunately for the sake of any rational conversation, the Lexophiles cover their eyes and stuff their pinkies in their ears and regurgitate about doo dads and gizmology and the 350 rather than accept the fact that Lexus appears to have missed their own self-proclaimed target of eclipsing the 3-series yet again. Can't wait to drive it and find out for sure.
"From all the howling some of these BMW owners are doing, I guess Lexus hit the mark with the IS series..."
Doesn't seem so from the bulk of the reviews so far. Strangely enough, I'm a Lexus owner and current IS fan.
Woof.
PS: What I own now has nothing to do with May of 06. BMW is out of the picture for me.
Actually, any car from Audi/BMW that is MY 06 lists horsepower in SAE.
The IS250 has a little more power than a 98 Honda Accord V6 (200 hp/195 lb-ft). Don't tell me the car isn't underpowered in 2006. Every review has mentioned that the IS250 is as slow or slower than the outgoing IS300.
When you pay $30k+ for a car, one tends to expect a little more than "everyday" power. The question is, how much power does a car have compared to other cars in its class and price point. The IS250 will probably have the slowest acceleration times in this class. The Audi 2.0T got a 0-60 of 6.4s in a R&T test. I don't think the IS250 will even touch that.
I'm not denying that the car will probably be near or at the top of this class in terms of features, safety, materials, ergonomics, stereo and comfort. But the IS250 will be at the bottom in terms of power and room. To me, power and room are part of the luxury equation.
Well said, jrock...That's why there is the IS350, for those who desire a little more umph than the IS250 provides. The IS250 will satisfy all but the power-hungry folks.
So many in here and elsewhere harped on my gen IS for being slightly underpowered...
;-]
Strange how many people think it's normal for an entry lux car in 2006 to be significantly slower than Accords and Altimas.
Again, there are fewer reasons in a real buyer's world to opt for the 250 over other available offerings, and that's the major volume, bread and butter group of variants. From the horse's mouth at Lexus they don't expect the volume to come from the 350, yet that's where the discussion always heads.