I really don't think that either the new 325i or the old one were underpowered. Certainly not blow-me-away, but they were very dynamic and very fun to drive.
A test drive is definitely in order before I choose between the IS350 and 330i, though.
The G35 is out of the question for me; the interior isn't that great and it looks pretty bad as a sedan. And unfortunately, I need a sedan
ricwhite: Where do you live that you fee you "need" AWD? A RWD BMW or Lexus with a set of dedicated winter tires and wheels and all of the electronic nannies are all you need to get you through the winter season. AWD just helps you get started.
I live in Utah -- about 30 minutes from a major ski resort. My son has a season pass and I'm often asked to drive him and his buddies to or from the resort. Often the canyon road is "AWD or chains" only. I currently have a FWD Passat with snow tires. But that is only good with road snow of three inches or less. Any more and I really have a hard time. Snowy roads are ususal from about late November through March. After struggling with my Passat in the winter, I told myself that my next vehicle will need to be AWD.
I totally understand. You are probably one of the FEW people in this country who NEED AWD. Many people where I live (NYC area) feel they MUST HAVE AWD. In reality we only get maybe 5 significant snowfalls a year (maybe a few more the past few years).
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Personally, I agree. The next cars I look at will include both the Lexus IS350 and the BMW 330i. And I will even admit that at this point I lean towards the former.
However, although I do not personally want either an IS250 nor a BMW 325i, both cars are more than enough for many people. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I simply strongly disagree with the people on this forum who are arguing that the IS250 is underpowered while they compare it to the 330i. Compare the IS250 to the 325i; that's the market competition that it addresses.
And please note, until me, "you" or anyone takes a test drives ourselves, we don't personally know how well the driving dynamics of either the IS250 or the IS350 compare to ANY other automobile.
Sometimes perception weighs more than reality. When looking at specs on paper the IS250 with its 204 HP compared with 205HP for 06 TSX, 215HP for the 325 and others points to just a below average performer. Some people might not even consider it because of the paper numbers. It's not relative to the whole car population that the IS250 might be underpowered but compared to its class. Lexus knew what the HP levels would be in the fall of 05 and chose to give this much to the IS250.
Like the GS, Lexus hopes to reel in enough folks at the launch with relatively low numbers in its base cars and then up the HP numbers should sales fall off. What would Lexus have provided as an upgrade if the IS250 already had something like 220-240HP?
Just as the Japanese have prefected Just In Time Manufacturing, Lexus is working out the details on Just Enough HP. :shades:
Yes, cos those numbers you quoted of the .ca site are Canadian numbers, or what you'd call *Imperial*. US numbers are 20% lower.... and are shown below (rounded out):
IS250 AWD (auto) - 23 city/31 highway, or ~26 combined IS250 RWD (auto) - 24 city/35 highway, or ~29 combined IS250 RWD (manual) - 20 city/31 highway, or ~25 combined IS350 RWD (auto) - 22 city/31 highway, or ~26 combined
I know exactly what your saying . I want a 350 so bad but really need/should go with a AWD for where I live. I can't make up my mind on taking the chance and getting exactly what I want or being practical. Guess it will come down to the test drive. I'll do my best to just test the 250 and hope its handling and performance meets what I want cause I know if I drive the 350 right off the bat, being practical is going right out the window.. Damn these winters!!!!
I would rather be happy all the time, than worry about being practical for only the winter. The extra horsepower you will have throughout spring and summer should make up for the mild inconvenience in the winter. Bring on the IS 350 baby !!
Wow! If those EPA numbers are right, I am EXTREMELY impressed!
You're talking a RWD IS250 getting better gas mileage than a 4-CYLINDER Camry (which is pretty much at the top of its class for mid-size GAS-ENGINE cars), and the 300+ hp IS350 getting the same gas mileage as a 4-cylinder BEETLE!
US EPA figures are notoriously innacurate when compared to real world driving. Canadian city figures are similarly innacurate, but their highway figures are pretty close to real life. With an Imperial gallon having about 8% more volume than a US gallon, so 39 highway canadian would translate to 35 in US gallons.
I can see it on highway mileage... Automatics generally have a higher top gear than the top gear on a manual transmission..
And.. the AWD weight/drag is not that much at a constant highway speed...
Around town? Doesn't seem like it would be better, but again, it comes down to gearing... plus, a lot of slushboxes start off in 2nd gear, saving even more gas.
"Build your IS 250/350" is currently under development on the lexus.ca website. Prices are shown for personalized accessories only at this time. We're slowly getting there . . .
Everyone likes to talk about the 3 series, but I actually think that the C230 is the IS250's biggest competitor.
The specs, power, features, pricing, driving dynamics (leaning more toward luxury than all-out sport), brand reputation (Lexus is known more as the Mercedes of Japan) are very similar.
2006 C230:
$29,975 MSRP; $35,000 well-equipped 2.5 V6 w/ 201 horsepower and 181 torque 6 speed manual 7 speed auto
2006 IS250:
$30,000 MSRP; $34,000 well-equipped (estimate) 2.5 V6 w/ 201 horsepower and 184 torque 6 speed manual 6 speed auto
Mercedes reliability has been poor for several years now and loaners are not gauranteed by the company (dealership whim) for the many trips you may need to make. They recently dropped free maintenance that had been a plus for the brand. The aging C class is due for complete redesign in about a year or so. Not a smart choice.
It depends on what you consider "real poor acceleration." Around 200HP and the torque of a V6 in that size car should be reasonably quick, but slower than some other cars. It depends on how important it is to you to beat other cars in races or how much it bothers you if someone points out that so-and-so car does 0-60 faster.
Choices.... choices....Hmmmm !!!!! Which one to buy ?? Only if I knew the right choice ????? Hmmmm !!!! WoW ! Its such a difficult task choosing, right ?
1. Where did you get your prices for the IS? My dealer's people went to training yesterday, but received no price information. 2. 0-60 for the C350 is 6.3, however 35-75 (gets you quickly past that semi on a crowded 2 lane road) is 6.1. that is impressive. 3. 31mpg highway for the IS350 seems to be confirmed by canadian tests.
Nice comparison, and I always thought the C230 was 4 cylinder.
There is a typo however, I believe the IS250 is rated at 204 HP not 201 HP.
On paper they might be close, but I think the IS250 is sportier, more reliable, has better fuel efficiency. Also as mentioned before, you are comparing a brand new model to 5 yr old or so design.
No problem. And I think the torque is 185 lb-ft instead of 184 lbs-ft for the IS250.
I have not driven either car and is too early to tell about the sportier part. But having driven and riden in the C240 I got that impression. C230 could be a totally different car from the C240.
The IS250 on the other hand at least from what we heard should be a sporty car:
The 230 was a 4 cylinder until this year. The 230 is sportier than a 240 (seems lower, sportier suspension, rims and tires, sportier interior seats and trim in aluminum instead of wood. Poor quality and reliability is the big issue.
While the plaform is the same the drivetrain and a few other items are new on the C230. Even if the body gets updated in a couple of years the drivetrain will likely stay the same.
All the reviews so far say BMW330i is better than IS350, but as long as iDrive is the trademark of BMW, I think I will never buy a BMW. Plus, I think the new IS350 is the better car of the two. Too bad, no manual.
I got this new BMW M5 Top Gear review from AlSi at Superhonda.com, and it is a pity that the new M5 is "annoying and fragile." :P
All the reviews so far say BMW330i is better than IS350....
Which reviews are these ? To my untrained eyes, there has yet to be a head-to-head comparo between these cars since the IS is yet to be released. If you know of a head-to-head comparo, kindly let us know. Until there is a direct comparison, it is incorrect to state that one is better, imo.
I don't get the vitriol aimed a silly option. more than that, having used the 7 series gen 1 iDrive, I'd contend the people who gripe about iDrive have never used it or are too technophobic and illogical to use it. It's no more complicated than using a mouse.
People just want to complain about non-issues. That's as crazy as someone saying they won't drive an Is350 because some IS350s will have that stupid pre-collision gadgetry on it. Drive one without that junk then!
Inside Line had a chance to drive new IS350, and the editor did conclude that on paper IS350 is better than BMW330i, yet he still thinks that BMW330i is still a driver's car.
Head-to-head comparo at most is playing game of numbers, meaning how much g can each car can pull, what is the max land changing speed, and... etc. However, with all the electronic control interferences of IS350, BMW330i will still be on top in terms of driver's car. And, it is driver's car wins.
For people who do not care about driving dynamics, then other features like interior quality, ride comfort, and... etc will be more important deciding factors. And, I believe IS350 will be light year ahead of BMW330i in those departments.
Unfortunately, I cannot tell BMW that I want that nice Navigation but I do not want the iDrvie interface because they come together. And, any new car without Navigation will never be on my list.
People have said enough about iDrive and I am not going to open that flood gate again.
I only have one comment.
Why does BMW, a company makes a car like M5 that I personally think it is amazing, drop their IQ by 200 when it comes to simple interface control design that Infiniti, Acura, and Lexus have got them if not right on the money at least they are much closer to the bull's-eye than BMW.
Inside Line had a chance to drive new IS350, and the editor did conclude that on paper IS350 is better than BMW330i, yet he still thinks that BMW330i is still a driver's car.
-- many people are skeptical of the Edmunds review - it was not in-line with several other reviews...and more will be forthcoming. And, of course, each individual's personal test drive - is the definitive opinion.
Head-to-head comparo at most is playing game of numbers, meaning how much g can each car can pull, what is the max land changing speed, and... etc. However, with all the electronic control interferences of IS350, BMW330i will still be on top in terms of driver's car. And, it is driver's car wins.
This term "driver's car" gets thrown around alot... would that be the professional driver on a test track or a normally-skilled typical driver on public roads? I am the latter. If the "driver's car" is the one with the .002 second faster lap time or .03 second faster 0-60 time - would the typical driver have the skills or environs to wring out the nth degree of performance? I would say no.
For people who do not care about driving dynamics, then other features like interior quality, ride comfort, and... etc will be more important deciding factors. And, I believe IS350 will be light year ahead of BMW330i in those departments.
So, are you implying potential IS owners do not care about "driving dynamics"? See above. Maybe a useful term would be "owner's car"? Defined by the those valued traits like "reliability", "quality craftsmanship", "value", "luxury", "ergonomics", "low maintenance/maintainability", "safety", "driving/handling by non-professionals"; etc. As to the "driving dynamics" - few people have actually driven the car so why not drive it before you pass judgement on "driving dynamics"? As for the Edmunds review - I thought the photo/road editors had the most reasoned/unbiased comments (in the review under second opinions).
Comments
A test drive is definitely in order before I choose between the IS350 and 330i, though.
The G35 is out of the question for me; the interior isn't that great and it looks pretty bad as a sedan. And unfortunately, I need a sedan
I live in Utah -- about 30 minutes from a major ski resort. My son has a season pass and I'm often asked to drive him and his buddies to or from the resort. Often the canyon road is "AWD or chains" only. I currently have a FWD Passat with snow tires. But that is only good with road snow of three inches or less. Any more and I really have a hard time. Snowy roads are ususal from about late November through March. After struggling with my Passat in the winter, I told myself that my next vehicle will need to be AWD.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
However, although I do not personally want either an IS250 nor a BMW 325i, both cars are more than enough for many people. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I simply strongly disagree with the people on this forum who are arguing that the IS250 is underpowered while they compare it to the 330i. Compare the IS250 to the 325i; that's the market competition that it addresses.
And please note, until me, "you" or anyone takes a test drives ourselves, we don't personally know how well the driving dynamics of either the IS250 or the IS350 compare to ANY other automobile.
Like the GS, Lexus hopes to reel in enough folks at the launch with relatively low numbers in its base cars and then up the HP numbers should sales fall off. What would Lexus have provided as an upgrade if the IS250 already had something like 220-240HP?
Just as the Japanese have prefected Just In Time Manufacturing, Lexus is working out the details on Just Enough HP. :shades:
Fuel Consumption - City/Highway mpg 26/37
that's fuel consumption on an IS350 from the lexus.ca site. http://www.lexus.ca/lexus/experience/en/home/vehicles/specs/BE262T2006/specs_features.jsp?- model=BE262T&year=2006
If that's true, color me massively impressed. In fact blown away. To get 37 mpg with a 300+ hp car is insane!
The IS250's even more impressive:
Fuel Consumption - City/Highway L/100km 9.8/6.7
Fuel Consumption - City/Highway mpg 29/42
That'd be combined mileage in the 30s?! I haven't gotten numbers like that since I drove a cruddy 4 banger in the early 90s.
Tell me something is wrong. AFAIK 3.7 liters = 1 gallon.
US mileage will be much lower.
GS 300 RWD
Fuel Consumption - City/Highway L/100km 10.7/7.2
Fuel Consumption - City/Highway mpg 26/39
Lexus.com:
GS 300 RWD
22/30 mpg city/highway
Yes, cos those numbers you quoted of the .ca site are Canadian numbers, or what you'd call *Imperial*. US numbers are 20% lower.... and are shown below (rounded out):
IS250 AWD (auto) - 23 city/31 highway, or ~26 combined
IS250 RWD (auto) - 24 city/35 highway, or ~29 combined
IS250 RWD (manual) - 20 city/31 highway, or ~25 combined
IS350 RWD (auto) - 22 city/31 highway, or ~26 combined
Hope this helps
You're talking a RWD IS250 getting better gas mileage than a 4-CYLINDER Camry (which is pretty much at the top of its class for mid-size GAS-ENGINE cars), and the 300+ hp IS350 getting the same gas mileage as a 4-cylinder BEETLE!
How are these "normal" ?
Imperial gallon = 4.546 litres
US gallon = 3.785 litres
Imperial/US = 1.201
2018 430i Gran Coupe
And.. the AWD weight/drag is not that much at a constant highway speed...
Around town? Doesn't seem like it would be better, but again, it comes down to gearing... plus, a lot of slushboxes start off in 2nd gear, saving even more gas.
regards,
kyfdx
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The specs, power, features, pricing, driving dynamics (leaning more toward luxury than all-out sport), brand reputation (Lexus is known more as the Mercedes of Japan) are very similar.
2006 C230:
$29,975 MSRP; $35,000 well-equipped
2.5 V6 w/ 201 horsepower and 181 torque
6 speed manual
7 speed auto
2006 IS250:
$30,000 MSRP; $34,000 well-equipped (estimate)
2.5 V6 w/ 201 horsepower and 184 torque
6 speed manual
6 speed auto
http://www.mbusa.com/brand/models/C230WZ.jsp
The aging C class is due for complete redesign in about a year or so.
Not a smart choice.
If the manual 250 is geared more aggressively, would it not be a faster car?
Then again, it's suppose to have real poor acceleration.
You know Edmunds did a comparo of compact sedans and the Mazda 3s got 24/29 and 9.5 for 0-60.
Is that what we get with the Auto IS250? Poor acceleration but good mileage? That's better mileage than the TSX, which has a large 4-cylinder.
Better mileage than the Passat 2.0T too. (although it's odd that the Passat 3.6 has the same mileage ratings as the 2.0T).
Probably too good to be true.
It depends on how important it is to you to beat other cars in races or how much it bothers you if someone points out that so-and-so car does 0-60 faster.
The IS looks like an interesting auto. Does anyone know when it will hit the ground in the USA??
Not a bad comparison.... How 'bout the C350 v IS350 ?
2006 C350
3.5L 268Hp/258Ibft of torque
7-speed Auto, 0 - 60 (TBD)
20mpg city/29mpg hiway (MB est.)
$38,150 MSRP, $46,000 well-equipped
2006 IS350
3.5L 306Hp/277Ibft of torque
6-speed Auto; 0 - 60 in 5.6s (Lexus est.)
22mpg city/31mpg hiway (Lexus est.)
$36K MSRP, $42,000 well-equipped (rough guestimates)
But let's extend the comparo to the Bimmer 330i
2006 330i
3L 255Hp/220Ibft of torque
6-speed Auto; 0 - 60 in 6.3s (BMW est.)
21mpg city/29mpg hiway (BMW est.)
$36,300 MSRP, $45K well-equipped
Choices.... choices....Hmmmm !!!!! Which one to buy ?? Only if I knew the right choice ????? Hmmmm !!!! WoW ! Its such a difficult task choosing, right ?
But in a way, IS250 v. C230 is an even closer comparison because the two cars are practically identical in terms of power and price.
Not many people know about the 2006 C230 because I think it's the first time that MB put this 2.5 V6 engine in a car.
As we get to the IS350 v. C350, the IS definitely gets a power advantage (higher) and a price advantage (lower).
2. 0-60 for the C350 is 6.3, however 35-75 (gets you quickly past that semi on a crowded 2 lane road) is 6.1. that is impressive.
3. 31mpg highway for the IS350 seems to be confirmed by canadian tests.
There is a typo however, I believe the IS250 is rated at 204 HP not 201 HP.
On paper they might be close, but I think the IS250 is sportier, more reliable, has better fuel efficiency. Also as mentioned before, you are comparing a brand new model to 5 yr old or so design.
I do agree with you about the reliability and fuel efficiency. But the jury is still out on whether the IS250 will be sportier than the C230.
I have not driven either car and is too early to tell about the sportier part. But having driven and riden in the C240 I got that impression. C230 could be a totally different car from the C240.
The IS250 on the other hand at least from what we heard should be a sporty car:
1. Double exhaust with throaty note.
2. Paddle shifter
3. Sporty looking wheels
4. Suspension
5. Tires
Poor quality and reliability is the big issue.
I got this new BMW M5 Top Gear review from AlSi at Superhonda.com, and it is a pity that the new M5 is "annoying and fragile." :P
http://members.roadfly.com/jason2/TopGearE60M5.wmv
Have fun.
Which reviews are these ? To my untrained eyes, there has yet to be a head-to-head comparo between these cars since the IS is yet to be released. If you know of a head-to-head comparo, kindly let us know. Until there is a direct comparison, it is incorrect to state that one is better, imo.
So, better keep researching... you might end up in a Plymouth... :surprise:
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People just want to complain about non-issues. That's as crazy as someone saying they won't drive an Is350 because some IS350s will have that stupid pre-collision gadgetry on it. Drive one without that junk then!
Head-to-head comparo at most is playing game of numbers, meaning how much g can each car can pull, what is the max land changing speed, and... etc. However, with all the electronic control interferences of IS350, BMW330i will still be on top in terms of driver's car. And, it is driver's car wins.
For people who do not care about driving dynamics, then other features like interior quality, ride comfort, and... etc will be more important deciding factors. And, I believe IS350 will be light year ahead of BMW330i in those departments.
I only have one comment.
Why does BMW, a company makes a car like M5 that I personally think it is amazing, drop their IQ by 200 when it comes to simple interface control design that Infiniti, Acura, and Lexus have got them if not right on the money at least they are much closer to the bull's-eye than BMW.
-- many people are skeptical of the Edmunds review - it was not in-line with several other reviews...and more will be forthcoming. And, of course, each individual's personal test drive - is the definitive opinion.
Head-to-head comparo at most is playing game of numbers, meaning how much g can each car can pull, what is the max land changing speed, and... etc. However, with all the electronic control interferences of IS350, BMW330i will still be on top in terms of driver's car. And, it is driver's car wins.
This term "driver's car" gets thrown around alot... would that be the professional driver on a test track or a normally-skilled typical driver on public roads? I am the latter. If the "driver's car" is the one with the .002 second faster lap time or .03 second faster 0-60 time - would the typical driver have the skills or environs to wring out the nth degree of performance? I would say no.
For people who do not care about driving dynamics, then other features like interior quality, ride comfort, and... etc will be more important deciding factors. And, I believe IS350 will be light year ahead of BMW330i in those departments.
So, are you implying potential IS owners do not care about "driving dynamics"? See above.
Maybe a useful term would be "owner's car"? Defined by the those valued traits like "reliability", "quality craftsmanship", "value", "luxury", "ergonomics", "low maintenance/maintainability", "safety", "driving/handling by non-professionals"; etc. As to the "driving dynamics" - few people have actually driven the car so why not drive it before you pass judgement on "driving dynamics"?
As for the Edmunds review - I thought the photo/road editors had the most reasoned/unbiased comments (in the review under second opinions).