I can't wait for the IS350 to arrive next month. I have a Lexus IS300 now and I'm first in line at the local Lexus dealer for an IS350. If anyone is excited about getting a BMW as I am about getting an IS350, then by all means buy it. They make great cars.
I always thought this forum was about the IS350 and IS250, not about trying to persuade Lexus owners that BMW is better and vice versa.
Notice that the 330i tester was the *sport-version* while the IS350 was the *non-sport* version. Notice that the Bimmer broke down during the test, while the IS350 sailed through flawlessly.
My 330i is currently broken down and at the dealer with no return eta. Seriously. When my lease finishes up, I had a mind to run from BMW. I want to. Lexus caught my eye but the lack of manual still bugs me massively. As January closes in, I'm sure I'll have driven every one of the competitors out there.
Speed is the not final thing. Neither is luxury nor handling. It's everything mixed. If it were out and out performance, I'd own an STi. I want the whole package. An automatic transmission with a 300 hp engine...that's like dating Halle Berry but she wears a burlap sack 24/7.
Notice that..... forget it.... And what was the margin of victory for the Bimmer ? 1 pt. Hurray !!!! Go and buy the Bimmer if you are so blown away by its ride and handling.... no need to hang around here any longer is it ?
Still planning on trying an IS350. I've been wrong before. I was ready to write bmw off after driving the 325i but luckily I got seat time in a 330i performance package. Had that not happened, I'd probably own a reliable, though spookily twitchy G35 6MT. I can't write off any sports sedan with decent power completely until i've driven it.
Don't you guys complaining about stick shift and kill switches realize you are fringe market people. Toyota/Lexus is not sitting on billions in cash from catering to the fringe market. They do careful research on what large numbers of people will actually buy, and then they decide to produce what will bring in their next billion.
Back in the muscle car era, the most fantastic car built was the DodgeDaytona/Plymouth Superbird. It would exceed 150mph right out the showroom door. We had one sit in our showroom for almost a year. Everyone who came in oohed and aahed, but no one bought it. We finally had to take the wing off, repaint it, and sell it at a loss.
The North American market doesn't give a rat's !@# about manual transmissions and kill switches, and I don't think Lexus will cater to the few who do. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
The North American market doesn't give a rat's !# about manual transmissions and kill switches, and I don't think Lexus will cater to the few who do. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
How does it hurt you if Lexus does make some minor changes for us?
blueguydotcom, everything you wrote there I agree with. I, too, am looking at both BMW 330 and a Lexus IS350. And I will admit that I am leaning towards the latter but I am looking at both.
And if you are leaning towards the BMW, cool! Seriously, more power to you.
I'll even go one step further and say that I hope that Lexus will make an IS350 available with a manual tranny in the very near future. I like manuals -- although I must also say that sometimes say that there are occassions like after a really hard day at work when I am travelling through heavy, stop-and-go traffic when I prefer an automatic.
But I, like you and everyone else on this board, can only decide which car is best for us -- indeed, which car is the most "fun" to drive as we all use our personal defintion of what's "fun" to drive -- once we have personally driven and compared the cars for ourselves.
Sidenote: I recently spoke personally to one of the editors of one of the major (top four) car magazines in the country about the IS350 and BMW 330. He had driven them both and said that he personally preferred the BMW. But he also said that he could understand why some people would prefer the IS350 and could even recommend it over the BMW. His personal driving style and preference was matched but not necessarily other's.
Yeah it's that weird subjective side that sells most of us on cars. I adored my Protege ES because of how light and nimble it felt whipping around the road. Friends would drive it and comment that the engine wasn't very strong. To each his own.
Lexus has updated the IS pages on their Japanese website. I'd post a link, but I don't want my message deleted again.
Can anyone provide translations?
They show what appear to be dealer options. Front fascia, real spoiler, possibly different exhaust, rims and more. This is a good indication of what we can expect in the US.
This could mean that a new Canadian or US site should be coming soon.
It doesn't hurt me one bit. Lexus sees it as affecting their bottom line, and I think they are quite willing to let you buy a BMW, since they will probably sell every IS 350 they produce, anyway.
Selling and making profit are two different things ! Unlike the GMs of this world, or the FoMoCo's of this world, Toy/Lexus sells their cars for profit, hence their net/market worth and cash stash to use in producing even better products.
Since when has any manufacturer not sold every car they produced?
What the heck does that mean? Lexus originally predicted sales of around 15-20k units a year for the IS300. They've been downgrading ever since as the car's sales were anemic. Yeah, they sold every unit...at a sharp discount and with revised forecasts. GM sells all the azteks and gtos they can produce too...so what?
I'm saying if they aim to sell 8k IS350s with automatics...perhaps they could move 10k total if they added 2k manuals. It certainly wouldn't hurt their sales or you if Lexus added manuals to the mix. They're already selling the underpowered 250 with manuals.
doesn't want all the business. They just want enough to assist Toyota in becoming the vehicle sales leader by year 2015. Unfortunately (for the few who prefer them), manuals are just not in the cards. No manufacturer can please everyone.
No MT in the new IS? How can they be taken seriously as a BMW contender with no MT? Sure, we all know most BMWs are sold with an AT, but there as still a substantial number of people who will only buy a car with a MT. Say what you want about what you think Toyota's marketing strategy is, but this if this is true it's a mistake on their part.
Does anyone have any links to the current specs? I remember seeing an article with info on headroom/legroom/hip room etc. but I cannot locate it. I really pefer the new GS but my head hits the top of the roof when driving. I doubt the IS would provide better headroom, but I wanted to know before I jumped into the M35.
lexus canada seems to provide information a lot quicker than lexus usa. they even had "build your own" up for a day before they took it down, presumable at japan's request. (it disapeared while i was using it)
Great post! Thanks for the info. As I figured, the IS has less headroom with a moonroof. Even without a moonroof, it is still about equal to the GS. I'll still drive one to find out! I don't think it's possible to order a GS without a moonroof. Has anyone tried?
So I been talking with dealers for about 3 months now, top of the list for my IS. I decide to stop by this past Monday (here it is a Lexus/Toyota dealership so they are all on the lot) to see if they recieved any new info on what will be sent to them since 16 Oct is coming fast. we get to talking and I tell him how bad I can't wait to see the car in person and I had thought about a TL for awhile cause I love the looks and said this IS should blow the TL and 3 series away in exterier styling. And he says to me yes it does seem to be a beautiful car and that it looks like a Scion tc only a sedan version and points outside to a blue tc. I go outside and start looking at the car and all I can say is ah its ok I guess but I don't want my 42k Lexus looking like a 17K Scion thats not a big selling point to me. If anything say its a baby GS please!!!!!!! Does anyone else see a resemblance between the TC and IS please tell me I'm just being paranoid now and not to worry cause I may be going back to the Acura dealer.. LOL say it isnt so
just a few questions for anyone who may know and looking for some opinions. My questions are as follows 1. I personally would want my vehicle with the sport suspension but I am one who also prefers the wood trim yet it seems not available to get both since 1 is in a performance package and the other a premium luxury package. Am I just missing it or will I have to can the wood trim thing since I prefer the sport suspension? And my last question is in the options category exhaust and body kit to be more specific. My first thought is oh yeah get it, but then I think back to the Acura TL real quick and think of their A SPEC kit which I thought looked nice until I seen pics of a TL with the RonJon kit and wow does that bring the TL to a whole other level it is absolutely gorgeous to me (ronjonwheels.com) if you haven't seen it. Now back to my question sorry but having never owned a Lexus does anyone know if I should hold off on the factory options and wait for a aftermarket bodykit and exhaust? I would hope somewhere a company is drawing up some plans as we speak
Wow too funny ck. I'm in the same boat as you I prefer the GS but there is not enuff headroom in it for me and I'm only 6'1" I'm waiting on the IS on the faint hope it is a bit bigger or you can get without a sunroof. Then M35 is also an alternate choice for me but I prefer Lexus :P
Thanks I think. They do favor each other alot, a whole lot. Crap!!!!!!! It makes the TC look alot nicer to me. I thought I read somewhere the new IS was a totally new design from the ground up. With its styling clearly influenced by Lexus recent LF-series of concept cars, the new IS shows a strong family resemblance with its stable mate, the 2006 GS, while capturing its own distinctively sporty, yet upscale essence. A notably wide stance and long wheelbase coupled with tightly-drawn bodywork lends a muscular and sophisticated style. ahhhhh yeah its gorgeous but now it appears that Scion was given Toyotas "LF design as well" I guess the next corolla or TC will look a bit like the LF A concept car..
While you can tell they do share some external characteristics I can guarantee that the interior fit and finish will not be even close, nor will the mechanics.
While a lot of unrelated cars are starting to look very similar nobody's ever going to mistake a new IS for a Scion. They may mistake it for a GS. I saw a GS today and swore it was the new IS
If you honestly think for a second that a low-end model like the tc is going to drive as nice or have features like the IS then perhaps you should get one and save yourself $10,000+. I for one wouldn't be caught dead driving a Scion.
Yeah, the ABS brakes failed on the 330i, and it spun out during the braking test, so they just used figures from a previous year's test. Talk about pro BMW bias. THE FREAKING BRAKES FAILED! It should have come in dead last. Maybe that's why Mercedes wouldn't give them a C350 to put in the comparison mix. They knew the mag would not let BMW lose, even if the car fell apart on the track. The mag said in the article the Mercedes C350 was not available to test. Funny the local dealer had a half dozen sitting on his lot when I took a test drive a few weeks ago.
I wouldn't be caught dead driving a Mercedes C class if I was an S class owner (actually I don't do German) either but the Scion TC is a high quality product designed at lower price point which means more compromises made. It actually has the best fit/finish for the class and price point and it's built in Japan. A fully optioned TC will hit $24K not exactly cheap. And there's very few on the lots so Toyota has a buyer without trying too hard. The new IS looks 200x better than the lame new 3 series. The interior wil be the class benchmark easily. The TSX interior is actually better than the 3 series.
Just mentioned to a friend that I thought it was a pretty nice looking car. Factor in the price and it's a darn fine little car. Gas mileage is sorta bad (worse than my 3.0 inline 6) but can't have everything.
i think it's better looking than the IS250/350 (and 3 series).
I guess you didn't really read my message. I never once mentioned anything about comparing the IS and TC in anything other than the Exterior Styling, never mentioned anything about driving as nice or being as luxurious on the inside, I was merely stating what has suddenly became very obvious which the both look alot alike. I never once even noticed a tc until the dealer pointed it out to me and he said they been out like a yr. But it never caught my eye and I'm just hoping the IS will hold my attention (EXTERIOR WISE) when it drops in October.
made no sense man, not talking about how many tires they have, or number of steering wheels, or headlights. A Beetle looks nothing like a Passat and their both cars. Hey everyone just forget I asked the question I didn't realize this was " joke fest 2005" merely asked about the exterior styling of 2 cars looking alike and I get " Sure they look alike, their both cars."
Yes, the Lexus interior is highly seductive. My wife and I test drove the M35 and thought it handled quiet well, but we couldn't get passed the interior. I am quiet happy with my GS300, silver and black like your colors. The latest Consumer Reports fazes me not one bit....
I thought I had decided but I'm still drawn but the "Lexus experience" and the great exterior and interior of the GS. I just can't get over the lack of headroom. I won't be buying until next month, so I'm sure I'll change my mind a dozen time or so by then! Pehaps it will be possible to actually buy a IS without a moonroof, so this may be an option. Have you heard of anyone ordering the GS without a moonroof?
I know exactly how you feel. When I test drove the new 325, I thought this car was for me, great drive, great pickup, etc. Almost purchased on the spot! But then went to Lexus, and the drive and handling is not up to par to the BMW (or the Infiniti IMHO), but the rich and quiet interior won me over. I then knew it was going to be either the GS or the IS. I decided GS because I wanted something bigger, and plus my Saab just broke down and I don't want to get it fixed!
I haven't seen any GS's wo a moonroof, but you may ask your dealer to order you one w no obligation to buy (they call it 'first right of refusal')? They may balk, thinking one wo a moonroof would be more difficult to sell if you do actually refuse.
When signing the paperwork on my car, the sales manager quipped about a possible convertible for the IS - don't know if he was just talking or actually knew something that the mags didn't. Don't want to stir up false rumors, but could that be an option?
The fact is Lexus has decided that the computer can drive the car better than you can. I think IS350 should be forth place, behind G35 and TL. It has smallest rear seat, and worst g and land changing speed. I mean 0.85g, that is like Honda Accord like, shame on Lexus.
BTW, Lexus even admits that it has a so call autonomous steer on IS350, meaning it will correct the steer for you on its on, talking about intervention. :sick:
As long as Lexus keeps the philosophy that you do not know how to drive, so let us put a computer on your car to help you drive, or to drive the car for you, it will never be 1st place in any comparo test. Period.
I thought Lexus finally got the direction right with the new IS350. I guess not.
Have you driven the car? Seems like youre very quick to dismiss it based on but 3 objective numbers. Even if the car can "only" hit .85g, the chances that YOU could ever achieve that with family or friends in tow (you mention rear seat room, so you must have some use for it, yes?) is highly unlikely. And the electronic intervention... thats not all bad, IMO, and I'd take it over a BRAKE FAILURE ANYDAY.
you have your opinion, and I (and Car and Driver) have opinions as well.
Lead times for auto mags are like 6 weeks. Test driving a car few weeks ago doesn't mean one was available that far back for C&D. If they say they couldn't get one, I'm sure they couldn't. It would help them sell more copies if they had covered ALL the cars. Besides, it's not like it would have changed anything; at best it would run mid-pack. Not a total re-design on an aging platform with a new engine, big deal.
Watch I-Robot and you will understand why you should never let computer drive your car when there is no off switch. You just watch out the Ghost in your car. :P
I wonder if it will be hard to find an IS250 with a manual tranny at the local dealerships, considering that Lexus plans to sell very few of them to the Americans.
Comments
I always thought this forum was about the IS350 and IS250, not about trying to persuade Lexus owners that BMW is better and vice versa.
My 330i is currently broken down and at the dealer with no return eta. Seriously. When my lease finishes up, I had a mind to run from BMW. I want to. Lexus caught my eye but the lack of manual still bugs me massively. As January closes in, I'm sure I'll have driven every one of the competitors out there.
Speed is the not final thing. Neither is luxury nor handling. It's everything mixed. If it were out and out performance, I'd own an STi. I want the whole package. An automatic transmission with a 300 hp engine...that's like dating Halle Berry but she wears a burlap sack 24/7.
Notice that..... forget it.... And what was the margin of victory for the Bimmer ? 1 pt. Hurray !!!! Go and buy the Bimmer if you are so blown away by its ride and handling.... no need to hang around here any longer is it ?
Still planning on trying an IS350. I've been wrong before. I was ready to write bmw off after driving the 325i but luckily I got seat time in a 330i performance package. Had that not happened, I'd probably own a reliable, though spookily twitchy G35 6MT. I can't write off any sports sedan with decent power completely until i've driven it.
Chill out, the IS350 will get a shake from me.
You mean your Jetta.
Does it make you happier that it will use BBS Wheel?
What? No, I mean my 330i. I haven't owned a Jetta since july of 03. sold it at a loss just to be rid of it. i've owned two cars since the Jetta.
What a random, weird thing to write.
Back in the muscle car era, the most fantastic car built was the DodgeDaytona/Plymouth Superbird. It would exceed 150mph right out the showroom door. We had one sit in our showroom for almost a year. Everyone who came in oohed and aahed, but no one bought it. We finally had to take the wing off, repaint it, and sell it at a loss.
The North American market doesn't give a rat's !@# about manual transmissions and kill switches, and I don't think Lexus will cater to the few who do. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
How does it hurt you if Lexus does make some minor changes for us?
And if you are leaning towards the BMW, cool! Seriously, more power to you.
I'll even go one step further and say that I hope that Lexus will make an IS350 available with a manual tranny in the very near future. I like manuals -- although I must also say that sometimes say that there are occassions like after a really hard day at work when I am travelling through heavy, stop-and-go traffic when I prefer an automatic.
But I, like you and everyone else on this board, can only decide which car is best for us -- indeed, which car is the most "fun" to drive as we all use our personal defintion of what's "fun" to drive -- once we have personally driven and compared the cars for ourselves.
Sidenote:
I recently spoke personally to one of the editors of one of the major (top four) car magazines in the country about the IS350 and BMW 330. He had driven them both and said that he personally preferred the BMW. But he also said that he could understand why some people would prefer the IS350 and could even recommend it over the BMW. His personal driving style and preference was matched but not necessarily other's.
Can anyone provide translations?
They show what appear to be dealer options. Front fascia, real spoiler, possibly different exhaust, rims and more. This is a good indication of what we can expect in the US.
This could mean that a new Canadian or US site should be coming soon.
Selling and making profit are two different things ! Unlike the GMs of this world, or the FoMoCo's of this world, Toy/Lexus sells their cars for profit, hence their net/market worth and cash stash to use in producing even better products.
What the heck does that mean? Lexus originally predicted sales of around 15-20k units a year for the IS300. They've been downgrading ever since as the car's sales were anemic. Yeah, they sold every unit...at a sharp discount and with revised forecasts. GM sells all the azteks and gtos they can produce too...so what?
I'm saying if they aim to sell 8k IS350s with automatics...perhaps they could move 10k total if they added 2k manuals. It certainly wouldn't hurt their sales or you if Lexus added manuals to the mix. They're already selling the underpowered 250 with manuals.
The site contains a lot of information on the new 350/250 w/ some good pics and tons of data on options and extras.
lexus canada seems to provide information a lot quicker than lexus usa. they even had "build your own" up for a day before they took it down, presumable at japan's request. (it disapeared while i was using it)
The IS 350 is much more aggressive looking, but you can tell that they come from the same gene pool.
cooney
While a lot of unrelated cars are starting to look very similar nobody's ever going to mistake a new IS for a Scion. They may mistake it for a GS. I saw a GS today and swore it was the new IS
If you honestly think for a second that a low-end model like the tc is going to drive as nice or have features like the IS then perhaps you should get one and save yourself $10,000+. I for one wouldn't be caught dead driving a Scion.
I still like the design though.
i think it's better looking than the IS250/350 (and 3 series).
Yes, the Lexus interior is highly seductive. My wife and I test drove the M35 and thought it handled quiet well, but we couldn't get passed the interior. I am quiet happy with my GS300, silver and black like your colors. The latest Consumer Reports fazes me not one bit....
Good luck with the search!
ahom12
Pehaps it will be possible to actually buy a IS without a moonroof, so this may be an option. Have you heard of anyone ordering the GS without a moonroof?
I haven't seen any GS's wo a moonroof, but you may ask your dealer to order you one w no obligation to buy (they call it 'first right of refusal')? They may balk, thinking one wo a moonroof would be more difficult to sell if you do actually refuse.
When signing the paperwork on my car, the sales manager quipped about a possible convertible for the IS - don't know if he was just talking or actually knew something that the mags didn't. Don't want to stir up false rumors, but could that be an option?
Anyway, good luck with the search!
BTW, Lexus even admits that it has a so call autonomous steer on IS350, meaning it will correct the steer for you on its on, talking about intervention. :sick:
As long as Lexus keeps the philosophy that you do not know how to drive, so let us put a computer on your car to help you drive, or to drive the car for you, it will never be 1st place in any comparo test. Period.
I thought Lexus finally got the direction right with the new IS350. I guess not.
you have your opinion, and I (and Car and Driver) have opinions as well.
~alpha