Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

legar

On which roads do you drive that you get to notice the difference between the "sloppy" A4 and which ever car you are talking about that makes you so happy?
Because I am not the get a reckless driving and speeding ticket kinda guy.

Although it would be great to push the IS350 against the 330i on the track as some lucky guys get to do.

blueguydotcom

How about 270 degree on-ramps?

270 degree corners on backroads. The fun twisties around Mt. Helix and the hills in El Cajon. The drive through the outskirts of Escondido and up to Ramona/Julian. How about the fun curves on Shores or Torrey Pines?

Hell man, I can feel it on a simple 90 degree sweeping on-ramp from the 163 north to the 8 east. In some cars they tuck down, hit the undulation in the road as if glued and allow you to slingshot out. In lesser cars the vehicle becomes unstable.

VW, in my experience, does not build very good roadholding cars.

Places I seek out. I grew up driving roads that were tree and cliff-lined in the Sierras so I sort of have a natural affinity for such roads.

mikegiller

I am getting the impression you were sent here to annoy us... for the LAST time, how does having the same suspension setup affect the straightline acceleration of the IS 350 which btw has a completely different engine that is about... hmmm 10 years newer tech than the V8 of the 430? bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh- hhhhhhhh.... last post regarding this. Ignore all the facts I posted in my last post all you want.

jrock65

Again, the 5.1s is an extrapolated number. In actuality, the IS350 in the C&D test probably got close to the 6.0s that R&T got, which does NOT extrapolate their numbers.

'At the test site we measure humidity, barometric pressure, and temperature. To eliminate the effects of weather on performance, we employ proprietary empirical correction factors to adjust all results to dry air at 14.7 psi and 60 degrees Fahrenheit using PsyCalc 98 software (www.linric.com) to crunch the weather data. Since cars run best in cold dense air, our correction tends to add time to results generated in low-temperature, high-pressure conditions and subtract time from hot-weather, low-pressure tests.'

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=2509&page_number=2

mikegiller

Hard to say. 6 seconds is very high for a 6 speed with 306 hp. However, some people might get 6 second times, and others mid 5s. Does that mean that the 3 would get 7 seconds if it weren't for this adjustment? I think not. Like I said, it's hard to say at this point. Tests are limited and none of us have driven the car. Although, I don't find it too hard to say that this car can get 5.3-5.6 second times ----> It has 306 HP... by old (pre 2006) standards that is more like 320 HP. Those are some big bozungas. :shades:

kdshapiro

C&D should then be testing their cars in Antartica, instead of the desert.

billinsobe

"In the end, the drive in the IS350 left me speechless"

"This car has made me, an avowed manual-transmission lover and automatic-transmission hater, rethink my perceptions. Sure, an IS350 Manual would be even better, but this IS350, automatic and all, is quite awe-inspiring!"

simpson556

no kidding, they go to the desert in JULY, the hottest month, and then complain how hot is was. Um, Duh, talk about idiots.

I lived in S. Cal for 34 years and learned at a early age to avoid the desert from May through mid-October. C&D, wake up and check the weather!

alpha01

Extrapolating is what you do when you have incomplete numbers and need to complete a set of information. Car and Driver had complete numbers, what they did was NORMALIZE for atmospheric conditions.

~alpha

msu79gt82

why would you pay 42k+ for an is350 when you can prolly get an m45 for 46k, if you're wanting luxury i would pay the extra and get the m45.....

I may be wrong but I think $42k+ for an IS350 would be fully loaded. The Base M45 has a starting MSRP of $47,560. A fully optioned M45 is well over $50K :shades:

jrock65

"Extrapolate", in nonmathematical lingo, also means "to estimate by extending or projecting known information".

But whatever floats your boat.

kdshapiro

Maybe they shouldn't normaliz...err extrapolate the numbers. We don't know the un-normaliz....err extrapolated 0-60. That sure would be a useful tid-bit of information.

alpha01

Whatever way you slice it, C/D didnt *estimate* anything. And we're not talking about boats here....

:surprise:

~alpha

jrock65

"Whatever way you slice it, C/D didnt *estimate* anything."

Naa... some computers and "algothrithms" did.

kdshapiro

You forgot the word "proprietary".

legar

Good post! hmmm... now if I can only get my hands on all (G35,IS,BMW,A4,TL) the cars at once and conduct my own test.

billinsobe

Right. I'm sure the salesperson (sitting in the seat right next to you) will be comfortable with you driving 100 miles per hour, doing slalom and exploring the cars adhesion during all of your test drives

giantkiller

The Lexus was tested on the same procedures and standard as the other cars and came out with the best numbers so what's the fuzz about that?

jrock65

"The Lexus was tested on the same procedures and standard as the other cars and came out with the best numbers so what's the fuzz about that?"

That's what I said in my first post. All of the cars were "made faster" by C&D's proprietary computer algorithms.

kdshapiro

glenford

Well, I'm hoping to get at least a partial shot at that back-to-back test drive at the upcoming Taste of Lexus (in NY, 9/25). Tim

blueguydotcom

Who cares what the salesguy likes? He's welcome to stay at the dealership and not hound test drivers with inane facts and stuid questions.

Honestly, I worried about salespeople once and ended up with a car that I didn't like when pressed to its limits. Now I let them know if they're at all squeamish, stay in the parking lot.

BTW, can't think of a test drive I've done in the past two years where I didn't break 100.

wale_bate1

Point: no car need be constantly driven at its limits to appreciate its abilities at "normal" (and slightly above, wink wink) levels.

My experience is however, as I believe BGDG implies, that the character when pushed hard gives good indication of acceptable and desireable characteristics in everyday driving.

I used to be respectful in my test driving. I ended up in a very nice little Chrysler Sebring LXi coupe by being respectful. It was a comfortable, competent, value-packed FWDer, and crusing around with my salesguy it felt good. I unloaded it at the Lexus dealer one year later.

On my IS300 test-drive, I took my salesguy on a Carmel backroad jaunt that left his knuckles white and lips blue. I was satisfied. I don't think I ever took it over 75 on the freeway, or 50 on the backroads, but I darn sure put it through its paces. The reward is that I have a car that hustles through SF traffic with ease and grace, and makes my canyon commute twice daily a true recreational joy (I don't ever touch a freeway)!

Might as well not even bother with the driving part of the test drive unless you want to drive it, says I. Might as well sit on the lot and adjust the seat and mirrors, smell the leather and fiddle with the sound system, grab a brochure and head home to see what Consumer Reports wants you to do.
}-]

To that end, if the serious performance capabilities of this car (or class of cars), even though rarely used, is that unimportant as a purchasing consideration, why bother looking at it in the first place? The ES is comparably priced, offers what you most desire, and is available right now...

[-P

blueguydotcom

We all make that "feels good" mistake once on a car purchase. Now I know i'm not buying unless i know it feels right in the twisties.

gab1

Why bother looking if performance isn't important? To get AWD as a wintertime safety feature. All I want is a reliable (read Japanese), safe, comfortable car with AWD that doesn't cost a fortune. It's either the new IS 250 or the Infiniti G35x or the Subaru GT, even though all are more sports-oriented than I'd like. However, since I think the IS 250 will be the least sporty, I am leaning that way (pending a test drive in which I will not drive 100 mph).

newcars

wale_bate1, I agree with you. And blueguydotcom. You should -- dare I say, MUST take your car to the limits of what you normally driving for your test drive.

But in "defense" of the IS350 -- and in disagreement with comments about how it is not "sporty" enough or handles well enough -- I dare say what any of us normally drive is rarely if ever the limits of any halfway decent sports car. I've been on the track before and I must say that there is a big difference between going all out there and taking a 35mph decreasing radius on ramp at 60-70mph. The latter, while fun and requiring a good car (and a better driver) is still not the same as the former.

Except for "steering feel" (which I do think BMW is the best at, surpassing even Porsche), everything I've read about the IS350 says it is just about as good as the BMW 330i for the first "8/10th of the handling envelope." But the first 8/10th's of the handling is where most of us are even when we (think we) are pushing our personal (i.e. driving skills) limits. And there, most people -- even those among us who think we are sporty drivers -- honestly won't know (nor appreciate) the difference. Remember the comments of the car magazine editor who said he personally liked the BMW 330i better but could recommend the Lexus IS350 to others, even some "enthusiasts" drivers.

Will the Lexus IS350 but sporty enough for me for my every day driving?

I don't know. I think so and hope so. But I -- nor anyone else -- will know for certain until we personally test drive it.

blueguydotcom

looking forward to that test drive.

wale_bate1

I'm also looking forward to a test drive, even in light of the fact that with no five-door model it's going to have a hard time convincing me to write a check.

So far, the press has mostly borne out what I suspected when the Geneva show opened, and what I suspected when the new GS bowed onto the stage: nice, comfy, capable, plush, electronic and plenty of zoom zoom with the bigger engine, but still (unlike the current IS) mostly Lexus. As the R&T article pointed up: "Lexus knows its customers best", with which I agree, which is why I speculated that if they meet their IS sales goal (which I really doubt), it will come in fair part at the expense of other Lexus models (ES mostly and some GS), and most likely not from BMW 3 buyers or shoppers in any significant numbers. Attrition from other brands (decliners like Jag X, aging platforms like the G and step-ups like Subie Legacy) will make up the difference. So much for changing the Lexus image or retaining the lower age demographic they had started to attract.

I will say it publicly, though, that if it's really that impressive to drive, then wagon or not I'll eat crow here and sign the lease there. It has been my fantasy from day one in my IS lease to be able to fax in my paperwork, drive into my dealer, hand over my keys and pick up the new ones and drive away, in 3-yrs time. Ten months to go.

Gonna take a hell of a lot more than 0-60 times, cush and gadgetry to impress this camper though...
;-]

mikegiller

"if they meet their IS sales goal (which I really doubt), it will come in fair part at the expense of other Lexus models (ES mostly and some GS), and most likely not from BMW 3 buyers or shoppers in any significant numbers"

Are people actually living in that much of a bubble that they think that the IS will not take a portion of 3 series sales? I mean, SERIOUSLY!!! The majority of people want luxury, speed, agility, and a BADGE!

The majority of driving enthusiasts are the minority of sales.

It is a little optimistic to think that all 3-series buyers are Michael Schumachers............. Please, am I going crazy here? If you enthusiasts think that you will reach the handling limits of these cars on city streets then God help us from the enthusiasts.

Also... ALL the magazines have stated that, and even in your Road & Track magazine which I have right in front of me states,

" On the track, the IS 350 feels right at home, stable in the extreme and benefiting from firmer springs and larger-diameter double-tube shock absorbers than those of the larger GS sedan."

ALSO... "In hard driving, the VDIM kicks in when the car begins to understeer or oversteer. Lexus says that this latest iteration of VDIM... is less intrusive than ever. Our on-track experience proves that. If you approach the limits gently, VDIM even allows mild 4-wheel drifts."

Theres nothing I can do to change anybody's mind because I have learnt through experience that all close minded people can make their decisions on their own! It puts me off a little though especially when people look at a magazine or hear someones opinion about a car that nobody (for the majority of the public) has driven and are highly influenced by it like it is gospel. I mean, everyones styles of driving is different so why the hell should somebody sway your opinion off the bat.

The gist I get from the mags is that it's a good car, just not a 3-series which is good, because theres already one 3-series. I personally would rather have a car that drives well (To boot I dont live on a race track, for the most part straight streets but yes I know how to drive well and appreciate great handling cars.) and has the best luxury ammenities that I enjoy in the 99% of the time I drive than a car that drives 10% better in 1% of my driving time. Trust me, the majority of people shopping the luxury sports sedan segment feel the same. Sometimes I feel that the car mag people are forgetting that these are not Ferraris, they are LUXURY SPORT SEDANS... where is BMW's luxury? It seems everything but sport is an afterthought!

"So much for changing the Lexus image or retaining the lower age demographic they had started to attract."

I just turned 19 last month and I am buying an IS 350.

Sorry If I seem a tad offensive, tough day at work.

ivan_99

I’ve been reading this board for some time now. I’m not in the market place for the IS350 now (too many babies), but it does seem intriguing.

I personally don’t see all the ohh and ahh over the performance of the IS350. It’s fast. But so is the M3 which has been making 333 hp out of a 3.2 since 2001 which BTW has an msrp of 47k (ok no options).

I do think the styling is gorgeous and the interior is beautiful and I’m going to make an effort NOT to drive one…I don’t need the temptation.

I do think Lexus should “borrow” the DSG from Audi and that way they could offer a “real” manual (yes I know no clutch pedal…but it’s in there somewhere) and still maintain computer control over the “entire” vehicle (as seems the wave of the future).

My big problem is that I’ve never driven (or been driven) in a Lexus that I liked. I seem to have a real problem with them…not sure if it’s psychological or just some kinda tick.

The IS350 is the first Lexus (without having driving it) that made me go wow. With that said, I’ve never driven a 3 series (from 325 on up) that didn’t make me go wow.

Wow if I had 50k to throw out the window…

digital_b

I find it incredible that people continue to beat the same dead horse for months in this forum even though the 'host' threatens to kill the topic [yet doesn't]. this is supposed to be about the new IS not any comparison with any other car. its not about manual transmissions or 'enthusiasts'. lexus is not chasing the ball cap wearing morons who killed the previous gen IS by being lamers. its not chasing badge whores either. they know their customer which is why the IS looks so much like the GS and carries so much content. its also why the interior is for grown ups and not 'pimp my ride' losers. lexus drivers [such as myself] want luxury, convenience, and reliability above 'road feel' and 'enthusiast qualities'. sorry so many of you do not understand or accept this but as has been said earlier in this forum there is a reason why lexus is so successful at this. I drive an LS 430 and the new IS 350 has drawn my attention. I am willing to bet that much like other car forums most of the most ardent/arrogant posters here have no intention at all of buying an IS and are just trolling. too bad because you are ruining this forum.

toyotaf1fan

Good Post.

I'd say Lexus has done a good job attracting the lower age demographic. For the record, I'm 22 and will be buying a new IS.

canuck55

Lexus is having quite a high end "unveiling" event in Toronto Sep. 21. Jack Soul is playing (I do not know who he is but my wife is keen to go so it does not look good) who I understand is fairly popular. My point is you had to be on Lexus's list (ie sign up on the www.lexus.ca for IS info) website to be invited. Dealership can not get you in and even people with deposits will not be invited if they did not sign up on the website. There must be other events at major US city's as well...

FYI...

kdshapiro

"that all close minded people "

Just a bit philosophical...only close minded people see other people as close minded. 'Cause and open minded person is open to all ideas. An open minded person who wants everybody to share the same opinion is pedantic. )

mikegiller

Not necessarily. It just seems some people aren't looking at both sides of the issue at a car which people haven't driven yet. Prejudging a car and saying it doesn't suit your driving character when you haven't driven it personally is close-minded.

I'm not trying to get everyone to share my opinion. I'm just making the point that people are making huge jumps to conclusions.

kdshapiro

Well I disagree. People are deriving their opinions in a different way than you. That doesn't make them closed minded anymore than it makes you closed minded for believing they are closed minded.

stickguy

I haven't checked in here in a while, and wow, lot's of posts! Not much new info though...

Anyway, any decent target date for when the IS is going to show up at the dealers?

wale_bate1

Deliciously laughable.

Read the board heading again, my beloved hearers: "Future Vehicles". Vehicles not yet available for sale here. Ergo, all is specualtion based on printed numbers and opinions of those who have driven it. Comparisons to knowns and givens are part and parcel of the discussion, as are speculations on sales, reactions of the public, and dynamics of the spectral vehicle itself.

There are no detractors of the car in here yet, as none of us have driven it. There is speculation based on the available data, by a few, that the direction taken with this car is not in fact what was outlined by Toyota three years ago when the first press releases with specifics started to surface. And this childish reaction to any commentary that isn't glowing with Lexus reverence is as closed-minded as knee-jerking gets.

I haven't seen anyone in here suggest any final judgement until after the car is test-driven personally. Not one. It is extremely reasonable to express doubts based on the numbers, Lexus history and the press thus far that this is not what Toyota said it would be and admitted that they benchmarked to: a 3-killer. It is also extremely reasonable to suggest based on the same that while some obvious improvements have been made over the previous iteration, overall something non-quantifiable and integral to the experience may have been lost in the process.

I have expressed my doubts that they will achieve their (reported) sales goal of 45K units, and have further suggested that if they come close, it will not be at the expense of the 3-series, just as the numbers proved that, even though Infintiphiles may believe it, the G35's sales success has little to do with any concurent decline in 3 transactions.

Disagree with the speculation(s)? Well that's what a discussion is all about. The next step would be to present something factual to support refuting the suggestion.

wale_bate1

October week 2.

msu79gt82

... this is supposed to be about the new IS not any comparison with any other car.

How does one go about talking about a car w/o invoking a comparison now and again :confuse: Or is this just an IS "at-a-boy" club :sick:

legar

Got my October 2005 Issue of Motor Trend in the mail on Wednsday September 14th.

According to Motor Trend the estimated BASE PRICE for the IS350 is $32,000 :surprise: (could this be a mistake?)

And the PRICE AS TESTED, for a fully loaded model I suspect from the reading, is at $39,000. Looks like a good deal to me.

blueguydotcom

Because if they think an IS350 starts at 32k, they'd get my interest real, real fast. Even with moon, leather, xenons you'd still only be at 35-36k. That's not too shabby.

Personally, I think MT is on crack.

bee7

Exactly what I am looking at, including BMW 330I.

My choice hands down, Infinity G35X. Great AWD, nice interior, not quite up to Lexus standards, but much improved this year. Mid 30’s loaded.

Great handling car, great engine, one of the best out there.
Also much more interior room.

And lastly, it's not a first year vehicle. No recalls. Even Lexus and Honda have them.

Anyway that's my opinion, take it for what it's worth.!!!!

wale_bate1

Motor Trend? The mag that once had the Seville as their Car Of The Year? That Motor Trend? Something stronger than crack, I'm thinking. Peyote and clam dip, more like.

My '03 IS300 SportCross was fully loaded at $35.5K (the lease subsidy reduced the actual expense a fair amount). To replace it with a fairly padded 350 should run at least $3K-$5K higher than their quote.

If the pricing is true, then it is a return to the debut of the LS400, and people will be unable to avoid the bargain. Now that would be a way to snag market share, just like the old days.

neocortex

http://www.lexus.co.uk/lexus_cars/is/is_new/index.asp

The site outlines the 'diesel' version, but shows all the color options (believe names are specific to region) and some new pics.

blueguydotcom

So agreed. I always say Infiniti took the Lexus LS400 model when releasing the G35. Lexus would be wise to do it twice. Undercutting the 3 series by 4-5k would get them insane sales fast.

wale_bate1

BGDC: Yup!

So, last time out, the Brit IS's got a couple colours better than ours, IMO. They had a creamy white, not unlike Mopar's Cool Vanilla that was very sharp, and I think they had a version of Bluestone Metallic (very pretty) before we did.

This outing, they get a fair sleepytime palette it would seem. Too bad.

One thing I'd love to see Lexus offer is a natural leather package not unlike the baseball glove color available on the M3 a couple years back. Audi has a similar offering on the A8 called Amaretto I believe. Very rich color and a bit off the beaten path.

It's too bad in this day of packaged options that our interior color choices have dwindled so...

sandiegodriver

Will the new IS have the awful engine hesitation problems that the ES and RX have? Be careful buying a new Lexus, folks. Anyone considering buying a Lexus should make sure you know all about the transmission problems a lot of "05 ES and RX owners are experiencing -- not to mention all the b.s. we're getting from Lexus trying to remedy the problems.

The new IS is beautiful, but don't be fooled with all their Lexus=quality hype. Lexus may claim to make a superior product, but they now offer the worst transmission in the auto business.

Go to http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef4cdbd!make=CATS&model=Transmission&ed_make- index=.ef4cdbd for more info.

maxellman

Neocortex,

Did you look at the gap on those doors? The taste in the cabin? Why can't the german do the same?

blueguydotcom

That's one thing i like about some of the comp. The ability to get black, beige, terra, gray and lemon interiors is nice. you can really customize your vehicles from the factory.

Black or beige to me is not nearly enough. Black, in my experience is too warm and Beige is very dirt prone in my experience.