Lexus IS 350 and IS 250

pearl

for those who have had a chance to drive or sit in the car. On the GS, many people complained that headroom was inadequate or barely adequate compared to its competition. Since the IS seems almost like a smaller version of the GS, and since it sounds like the moonroof will be standard, it appears that headroom (even in the front) could be an even bigger issue. True?? Several people have already commented that they thought the back seat was virtually uninhabitable (too bad if true on any 4-door car), but I have not read many comments on front headroom and wondered if anyone had comments (interested in the "long torso" aspect of this too).

is3ooguy

5'11" and headroom in front was okay. Not a lot of extra room but enough. It almost seemed a bit cramped but i'm guessing it's because of the low roof. Leg room was fine in front.
That backseat is kinda scary

mikegiller

Could anybody compare the backseat room of the IS to an 04' Corolla?

jrynn

Saw and drove the new IS at the Washington, DC Taste of Lexus event.

Plenty of headroom in the front seats for this 5'11" driver, who prefers a VERY upright seating position.

The rear seat did feel tight. I've read a Lexus engineer's comments posted on an IS enthusiast board (frankly, THE board for IS enthusiasts) that although the car's overall dimensions have increased, there is less headroom and less shoulder room in the new IS than the original IS because of the way the designers styled the roofline in the rear.

That's pretty consistent with my impressions sitting in the static display IS in the tent that the back felt "tight." It's the same step backwards that MB took when they redesigned the C-Class a few years ago and made it more "aerodynamic." My sister's 1997 C280 Sport has VASTLY better rear seat room than the current model. It's actually fine to ride back there for a few hours. I wouldn't want to have to to that in the new IS, though.

ckelly14

The headroom in the front of GS is almost a deal breaker for me. On another forum, I have heard a few comments that the IS headroom is a slight improvement compared to the GS. This would certainly go against the specs, however. I suggest we both try it for ourselves. I don't count on most of the comments such as "I 'm X feet X inches, and it's fine for me." I'm 5'11" but I have a long torso, and I can tell you that my head rubs up on the GS roof in the driver's seat.

We are not alone in this. There was a long thread on another forum with people wishing, no begging, for more headroom in the IS. I doubt this will be the case, however.

lbaily

IS 250 AWD
0-60 MPH Acceleration: 8.3 sec

At least that's what another message in this forum states.

legar

Yea, I hear you on that one, I dont use the moonroof either cause its too noise over 40 mph. However, a moonroof actually increases the overall value of the car if you decide to sell the car later.

I hope Bob is wrong though, the sunroof should be an option.

Instead they should make Xenons a standard feature, it makes driving a lot safer, and makes the car look better.

carlisimo

"'Similar' was defined by the older rears on 325's and Civics of the 90's..... "

I tried looking at old ones and... the Civic had that little lip on its trunk in its late-80s generation. The 3-series didn't until the e36 bodystyle in 1990 or 1991.

johnl2

For those who have seen the new IS in person, does it really look that small in life? For some reason, based on the pics it looks like the size of a Mazda 3. Does it look bigger than the competitor, bmw 3 series?

blueguydotcom

Instead they should make Xenons a standard feature, it ,... makes the car look better.

:confuse: I don't understand what that means.

is3ooguy

Could anybody compare the backseat room of the IS to an 04' Corolla?

Sure, having rented a new-gen Corolla I can honestly say it has WAY MORE headroom and it FEELS like it has more legroom.
Out of the 8 cars C&D tested (all in the entry-level sport sedan arena) the IS scored last for it's rear seat! That's got to tell you something as well...

ivan_99

Out of the 8 cars C&D tested (all in the entry-level sport sedan arena) the IS scored last for it's rear seat! That's got to tell you something as well...

It tells me it has the least amount of room...what does it tell you?

stickguy

this I have to try for myself. The GS was a little tight in the rear for my (head room), but I am 6', and more torso than legs, so I have problems with a lot of cars.

The rear seat riders in my family currently live in a Scion tC, so an IS should be an improvement. My son is only up to about 5'4, and is more leggy than I am, so he should be OK for a while.

Headroom to me is either enough, or wasted space, since I don't plan to have passengers wearing cowboy hats!

is3ooguy

It was rated on space and comfort... so it tells me in addition to being cramped it's not a comfy place to be

wale_bate1

Rear seat room + sport sedan = who cares (for the most part).

Kids fit? A-OK
Friends fit for short drives only? A-OK.

Use it mostly as a place to stash your brief case and/or laptop on the way to and from work? Bingo.

Of all the criteria by which to judge a performance sedan, this has to be low on the list, or rather it should take a back seat.

mikegiller

Cramped is synonymous with discomfort.

What legar means is exactly that, BGDC, and I agree too. The blue/green/purple/white of the xenons do add colour and dynamics to the front end of cars and look much better. To me it looks like a fine piece of jewelry. Well, it at least looks better than a bland drone of yellowish light.

is3ooguy

Rear seat room + sport sedan = who cares (for the most part).

Then why have four doors? Some people actually like to use the backseat for things besides briefcases and lap tops... say for things like people. I use my backseat for that reason, often. And I don't want to hear I should be in a Accord or Camry then. Many cars in this class can do a fine job of moving people around in the back seats, I believe my E90 is one of them.

My point here is out of all the cars in the class, the new IS has the worst backseat and some people care about that, including me. Two of the multiple reasons I went with a 330i over the new IS350 was lack of a manual in the Lexus and it's rear seat. I need that part of the equation and I'm willing to bet I'm not alone! Agreed it's far from the top of the criteria we should judge sport sedans by but it's something nice to have.
Even your kids/friends on short trips, will agree

blueguydotcom

what legar means is exactly that, BGDC, and I agree too. The blue/green/purple/white of the xenons do add colour and dynamics to the front end of cars and look much better. To me it looks like a fine piece of jewelry. Well, it at least looks better than a bland drone of yellowish light.

So you mean when the lights are on. In the dark. And it's about how other people see the car.

I demand xenons because they make night driving safer - illuminating the road far better. The bling bling is not a factor. If I cared about that I'd just cop to low self-esteem and go buy a I-have-a-small-unit car like a Boxster, Hummer or Corvette.

rats13

I definitely on the headroom bandwagon. I'm only 6'1/2" but I have a long torso and my head rubs on the GS. I'm hopeful but not optomistic about the new IS.

The only thing that gives me a glimmer of hope is they say the new IS has more headroom than the old IS and when I was in a lexus showroom the old IS had MORE headroom than the new GS. Go figure that :confuse:

newcars

is3ooguy, I must agree.

Having briefly test-driven them both, I was leaning toward the Lexus IS350. For me, it's the better driving compromise. But the lack of a decent-sized rear seat is making me reconsider the BMW 330i. Actually, it's making me reconsider whether I need a rear seat at all. In which case -- that is, if I don't -- I'm thinking about foregoing both the BMW and the Lexus and going with a Porsche Cayman S for a little extra money.

But again, my decision (or rather, my indecision) is based on the pitiful rear seats in the Lexus. If I need rear seat room, the BMW may very well be (for me) the better choice; if I don't, then the Porsche might be the best way for me to go. Either way, the Lexus is losing out.

And either way, if the Lexus IS350 had better rear seats, it would be no contest.

newcarman

Good day. I really am considering the IS250 but would like some help.

I live in New York and the car wont be in until October 15th and i havent got the faintest idea what kind of price it would be without Nav but with AWD.

Did anyone see the car yet live and how does it look?? Is the rear seat poor for room?? I have an elderly mother that i drive around sometimes and wanted to know if there;s enough room back there??

Also im considering the Acura Tl or Nissan MAxima.

Anyone have any prices on the 250 and overall hows the car??

Thanks

fatcat71

Prices released 10/11
car released 10/17
I have mine all locked up
Back seat is a bit small
perhaps the G35 would be better for you.
Bit longer than BMW and Lexus but has the "roomiest" back seat in it's class

glenford

Scan back through the messages in this forum for driving impressions and guesses at prices. Many people have seen and driven them. Prices are due out 11/11, I think. You can see for yourself on 11/17.

My opinion: your mother will have to ride in the front - back is tight.

For me, I like this car a lot! Tim

hintz

First of all heard on the radio that the local dealership has the new IS in stock and ready for delivery. So I called my salesperson and mentioned that, of course they have nothing in stock, I believe that's false advertising. Well least to say they will have one in Friday morning to drive and prices etc. The dealership will call me friday morning to come over and see it.

mikegiller

No, no, no, Tim. :P You are one month too late on 11/11 and 11/17 respectively.

pearl

I am waiting to sit in/drive the new IS. I am interested in replacing my 97 528 with 131K on the clock - but which drives great, is quiet, good mileage, etc. Virtually all of the new LPS sedans are good, and while I don't need a "family" car, I agree with you that at least sometimes, I need to carry people, not just briefcases, in the back seat. I drove all the new LPS sedans last Spring, and while I liked the GS interior overall, I thought it was very cramped, plus the trunk was a joke, which when coupled with no fold down rear seat, made the car much less desirable than the typical traits that would cause one to favor Lexus. Seems strange that Lexus would compromise so much on things like headroom and rear seat room. Surely, it would not have been that tough to add an inch hear or there, maybe by making the car a little taller. Whatever. Lexus, IMHO, has blown a great opportunity to shut out nearly all of the rest of the market. I may still buy one, but I will spend much more time looking at the 330 than I would have before.

glenford

Mike - should check my fingers at the door. You are right - November. My "car lust" made me anxious, although I think I will wait until after the new year to buy - won't be able to bring myself to pay full price. Tim

legar

The Xenon lights look cool in the dark, the Xenon headlamp itself looks better then Halogens, and they are also a nice safety feature.

Moonroofs add no safety, decrease headroom, and are the basically a "bling bling factor" you say you dont care about.

rjorge3

Ok, it seems that by reading along all the posting Lexus committed a sin by not including folding rear seats, not offering manual in the AWD and 350. My Audi A4 has folding rear seats and I can not begin to tell you how convenient they are. I am so looking forward for the end of my lease, as I think (at least for now) that the IS250 AWD will be my replacement. I saw the car in person, and I believe that Lexus has a huge winner here. Although I have heard that the AWD will not come in 6 Speed manual... Am I wrong? I hope that the will offer a manual in the AWD and as well as in the IS350.

A good friend of mine and a Lexus ES owner, told me (after hearing me whining about not offering a manual in the AWD or 350) that lexus mainstream customers are not "manual" drivers and that they will sacrifice the handling aspect in order to obtain more "serenity" on the road. I am sorry, but as I told him, with the IS Lexus is definitely looking to go right after the 3 series, and if they want to at least take a chunk of sales from BMW buyers, they have to forgo that type of "luxury vs performance" type of mentality.

I believe that if we send enough complaints and make enough noise about what a call major oversights (not rear folding seats, no manual on the AWD and 350, and elimination or at least switch off the VDIM), we can force them to make changes at least when my lease expires in two years........... or you guys think that I am just whinning about stupid littly things???

mikegiller

Wait, now you confused me. I mean we get it 10/11 (pricing) and 10/17 (dealers), right? I too am looking to buy in spring/early summer. No sense in buying a new car now. There is snow sitting on the ground right now (we just got our first snowfall)!!!

mikegiller

I agree. I do believe that Lexus did make an oversight here. A 6 speed manual would be great to at least compete in the manual market. There are people who do love to drive manual, however in the city I live in, a 6 speed automatic would be enough. Maybe if I decide to move to a place that has some nice twisties then the manual would be a nice choice, but seeing as how I live in the prairies, having a manual is unjustified; just a pain in the [non-permissible content removed]!

blueguydotcom

Moonroofs add no safety, decrease headroom, and are the basically a "bling bling factor" you say you dont care about.

Decrease headroom? okey dokey...not an issue for me and never has been. I dislike that the chassis is weakened by a moonroof. But I use mine pretty much every time I get in my car...it's extremely handy to have the windows and roof open so the car is at least ambient temperature when I get in.

And nobody notices moonroofs. You don't see pickups, civics, integras and SUVs with fake moonroofs like you do all the fake xenon lights idiots put on their vehicles..

Nice try but honestly if one writes that xenons "look cool in the dark" then I imagine one is trying to peacock with lights. That's pretty amusing. They're lights. To each his own...

blueguydotcom

but seeing as how I live in the prairies, having a manual is unjustified; just a pain in the [non-permissible content removed]!

Wow...can't see ever thinking that. Shrug. I've been stuck driving an automatic for 4 days (on a business trip) and I'm going nuts piloting a car that chooses its own gears. Not sure how people put up with this.

mikegiller

To each his own right?

I more often am happy that I don't have to drive a stick in annoying traffic in Winnipeg than upset that I can't choose my own gears. Winnipeg has got to have the worst roads in Canada because of the poor/volatile weather. -40*C in the winter and 30*C in summer.

rockylee

I hope this wonderful power pack see's the 350 engine bay for some real 0-60 times of high 4's and not to mention great MPG

rockylee

:confuse:

mutsumoto

My colleagues and I believe that a performance model in on its way and might carry a manual transmission with a large displacement engine to compete with the new 3-series. In addition, the IS variants (possibly a cc) will also have the manual transmission you mentioned. You should actually consider yourself (Americans, Europeans, etc.) lucky because in this part of the world, Lexus is not offering manual transmission at all.

glenford

Sorry twice. October. Pricing in 5 days, cars in 11.

newcars

You probably summed it up, rjorge3.

For me, the IS350 is a great car. However, it lacks a few things to make it an even better car:

1) tiny rear seats. For those rare occassions when you do need to carry more than two adults for any appreciable amount of times, I'm sorry but the IS350 just doesn't cut it. Fortunately, I do have alternative transportation but I realize others don't. This is not a selling point.

2) a "kill switch" for the VDIM (and VSC). When you really want to drive, you should be able to forego the nanny.

3) folding rear seats. A different gripe than the small size but still related. Before I got an SUV, I insisted that all my cars have fold-down rear seats. For those very, very rare occassions when I needed extra space, it is invaluable.

4) a manual transmission. If you love to drive and have the opportunity to indulge your enjoyment then a manual is the only way to go. Unfortunately, I am stuck in traffic on the highway too much; in such cases even I prefer a manual but the option should be available throughout the lineup. (My wife's solution is to force me to drive when we hit heavy traffic.)

Strangely enough, as options and in my particular situation, I would probably forego even folding rear seats and manual transmission -- I personally have options -- but all of the above should be offered throughout the model line. In my opinion, Lexus not having them has definitely limited their ability to expand beyond their base market.

wale_bate1

Got my "Taste of Lexus: Performance Edition" mailer invite yesterday. It's for November 5th in Alameda. November 5th. Performance edition?

Why should I bother when the cars will be on the lot, and the lot is closer? To get my golf swing checked?

What a remarkable load of rubbish, timing-wise, that is.

BTW, I've seen one on the road. Yesterday traveling east on Crow Canyon Rd. at 8:17 am, and no, it wasn't a GS (I've done that double-take a couple times).

mikegiller

Don't apologize to me. Boy, am I looking forward to that test-drive!

edwardsf

Jrynn, Oh to fianally find some solidarity on this headroom/long torso issue! I am 6-2 with a long torso and also like a vertical driving position. My head often rubs against either the roof where the moonroof is, or, in a narrow car, where the side meets the roof. The only sports sedans that has been comfortable so far has beent the Audi A4 and the Saab 9-3. The C230 was acceptable. Toyotas and Lexus' seem to have particularly bad headroom - try a Solara - awful! I have had two Saab 900s because of this (and their HUGE space in back).

Even the G35 and TL, which all the magazines say are roomier than their competitors, seems to have less room than the Audi. I think you are right - each person has to sit in a car to see if it works for them. And then okay, maybe even drive it

wco81

How is a car with such a cramped cabin so heavy? If they had to expand the rear seat room in teh future, that would make it even more heavy, I suppose.

Is the trunk small too, especially with no fold-down seats?

On the one hand, it's good that the EPA ratings are decent. But they may have cut some corners (literally) to get there.

lem_banker

Hi Mike,

I am a fellow Winnipegger. Currently driving 2001 GS430. I am considering the new IS350 or believe it or not the Dodge Charger SRT8. This is my 3rd Lexus, all great cars but becoming overpriced and I understand they would sell more vehicles in Winnipeg if the "Sales guy" was different.

Your thoughts?

wco81

Actually, I think it's at Alameda Point in SF, not Alameda.

Two weeks before then I can presumably test-drive in the South Bay without driving up north 50 miles.

justconvinced

My friend and I went to the event at Belmont and he is 6'1". He made a comment about being too high (his head was touching the roof). I told him to put the seat down (vertically). Presto, about 5 inches of head room. Unless folks are grossly disproportionate, there's only so much length to your legs or torso. It seems to me the answer to front headroom is so much more solvable than the small rear. And it's not the end of the world for the back (having sat there) if the front seat isn't pushed back as far as it can go. Would I want to sit in it to drive cross country? No. But could I stand it for a couple of hours? Yes.

Of course, I am operating under the assumption that not everyone who is looking at this car is 6 ft plus and driving with the seat in its highest vertical and furthermost rear position.

Am I missing something? If I am failing the intelligence test, please let me know.

jC

newcars

I'm not that tall (about 5'9"/5'10") although I might be considered to have long legs (34" inseam). What I did is get comfortable in the driver's seat of the IS350 on display at the Taste of Lexus and then jump in the backseat behind it. It was immediately uncomfortable. Furthermore, I couldn't find a space for my (size 11) feet. I wouldn't want to ride back there for ten minutes.

Worse was my wife. She did the same thing in the passenger side. When I drive she like to stretch out (and she has long legs ). There literally no leg room behind her.

I will say that I like to sit fairly high in the driver's seat. It gives me a more commanding view of the road. And I will note that I did have plenty of head and leg room in the front seat. Perhaps that took up a little extra space from the back but still ... it was more cramped in the rear than it should have been.

And to answer wco81's question about trunk space. That actually was fairly decent. I'd say about the same as the new BMW 3-series, if not a little bigger. Again, not trying to be funny or anything, but it's good enough for most people most of the time but if it would be the only car I had, I'd like the seats to fold down.

wayde

My salesman has called twice this week - he now has a list of what inventory is coming in on the first allocation & wanted to know if I had a color preference & if I could stop in on the 15th for a test drive
I told him i'm not sure on color yet as I need to see in person (online colors never translate well). I put a fully refundable $500 deposit down mid-July... he said he has 8 IS250 AWDs coming in around the 14th/15th... Can't wait to finally see & drive it!
Oh - also anxiously awaiting the pricing on the 11th...

wale_bate1

Had to make me fish it out of the trash, didn't ya? :P

Nope, it's Alameda all right. No matter, the cars will be on the lot before the event, so, as you say, two weeks ahead we can go play!

carlisimo

mini-survey:

1) Say "aye-1" if you own a manual-transmission BMW 328i or 330i that you bought new in the USA (I'm being specific in the nomenclature: larger engine version, sedans only).

2) Say "aye-2" if you own a BMW 330ix (or xi?) that you bought new in the US. Any transmission.

(I don't have any expectations... I'm honestly curious how many people do buy that specific configuration. I'm not interested in commentary until after I get a few days' worth of responses.)

If you were looking for one, and were actually serious then say so (state why you didn't get one). But I'm sure all of us here have thought of owning one at some point, and dreamers and half-hearted shoppers don't count for the purposes of the survey.