Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Thanks for the advice. The engine says 3400 SFI on top, and has 68,000 miles. I just attempted the on position for a minute or to as you suggested, but nothing!!
Tony
If there are any service bullitens on this your dealer will have that information. I am unsure what they do as far as testing for the BCM. That questions is best asked to your dealer. They can provide more informaiton about diagnostic information.
Christina
GM Customer Service
If you have performed the resistor fix as described on my website, and you are sure the resistor is connected between pins A6 and B6 of the center connector of the BCM, and that the resistor that you are using is around 2200 ohms, then you have eliminated the possibility that the ignition switch is causing your Passlock malfunction. There are only two things left on your car that can cause the SECURITY light to remain on, or blink.
1. The Body Control Module
2. The Powertrain Control Module
The most likely suspect is the BCM. If you were unable to get the SECURITY light to go off and stay off after the 10 minute relearn procedure, the next thing to try is what GM calls "30 minute Learn Procedure"
Here is the complete text from the GM service manual. If you don't have a Tech 2 tool, and a Techline terminal, try following this procedure, starting at step 8.
________________________________________________
Theft Deterrent - Programming Components - U.S. Vehicles
PROGRAMMING THEFT DETERRENT SYSTEM COMPONENTS
IMPORTANT:
* The Body Control Module (BCM) must be programmed with the proper RPO configurations before performing learn procedures. Refer to Body Control Module (BCM) Programming/RPO Configuration in Body Control System.
* If replacing the BCM with a GM Service Parts Operations (SPO) replacement part, the module will learn Passlock sensor data code immediately. The existing PCM however, must learn the new fuel continue password when the BCM is replaced.
* If replacing a PCM with a GM Service Parts Operations (SPO) replacement part, after programming, these modules will learn the incoming fuel continue password immediately upon receipt of a password message. Once a password message is received, and a password is learned, a learn procedure must be performed to change this password again. A PCM which has been previously installed in another vehicle will have learned the other vehicle's fuel continue password and will require a learn procedure after programming to learn the current vehicle's password.
Conditions
Use these procedures after replacing:
* Passlock Sensor
* BCM
* PCM
10 Minute Learn Procedure
Tools Required:
* Tech 2
* Techline terminal with current SPS (Service Programming System) software
1. Connect the Tech 2 to the vehicle.
2. Select "Request Information" under "Service Programming".
3. Disconnect the Tech 2 from the vehicle and connect it to a Techline terminal.
4. On the Techline terminal, select "Theft Module Re-Learn" under "Service Programming".
5. Disconnect the Tech 2 from the Techline terminal and connect it to the vehicle.
6. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
7. Select "VTD Re-Learn" under "Service Programming".
8. Attempt to start the engine, then release the key to ON (vehicle will not start).
9. Observe the SECURITY telltale, after approximately 10 minutes the telltale will turn OFF. The vehicle is now ready to relearn the Passlock Sensor Data Code and/or password on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK.
10. Turn OFF the ignition, and wait 5 seconds .
11. Start the engine. The vehicle has now learned the password.
12. With the Tech 2, scan tool, clear any DTCs.
30 Minute Learn Procedure
Tools Required: None
1. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
2. Attempt to start the engine, then release the key to ON (vehicle will not start).
3. Observe the SECURITY telltale, after approximately 10 minutes the telltale will turn OFF.
4. Turn OFF the ignition, and wait 5 seconds .
5. Repeat steps 1 through 4, 2 more times for a total of 3 cycles/30 minutes . The vehicle is now ready to relearn the Passlock Sensor Data Code and/or passwords on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK. IMPORTANT: The vehicle learns the Passlock Sensor Data Code and/or password on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK. You must turn the ignition OFF before attempting to start the vehicle.
6. Start the engine. The vehicle has now learned the Passlock Sensor Data Code and/or password.
7. With a scan tool, clear any DTCs if needed. History DTCs will self clear after 100 ignition cycles.
____________________________________________
If you were unable to get the SECURITY light to go off by yourself, with this information, I'm afraid you MUST take your car to a Chevy dealer, and try to convince them to do the full re-learn procedure for you. Be convincing. I have a very co-operative Chevrolet dealer who has helped me several times with my Pontiac. Print out the procedure on my website that you followed, and also print out this message. Bring it with you to the dealer. Some of them are understanding. Ask if you can talk with the "service technician" (they don't call them mechanics any more) that will be working on your car, and explain to him that you got this information from a retired GM engineer. If he refuses to try the re-learn procedure on your car without replacing the ignition module, go to a different dealer.
Sorry I couldn't help any more than this. By the way, the standard cost of hooking up and using the Tech 2 tool is $25.00 at Chevy Dealers, and $40.00 at Buick/Cadillac Dealers.
Dick Berger
If you follow the steps described on http://www.bergerweb.net , please post back and let us know the results. Use the procedure for the Olds Alero. It's better, and the cars are virtually the same, except it's easier to remove the radio bezel on the Pontiac. Also, don't worry about unplugging the radio to get it out of the way. I have done it many times with no ill effects.
Dick Berger
I did the resistor fix carefully. I consider myself to have decent soldering experience, as I have worked in garages where I did most of their wiring work, and I also dabble in computers. In any case, the connectors were fine and the BCM showed no signs of being wet, but there was some black tape around the edge making me think someone was inside it previously. After the fix, it still starts like it used to and the security light is still solid. I opened up the BCM to test at the board if the resistance was correct, and indeed it was (there is some internal resistance across those pins so some simple math told me what value I should be looking for). This tells me that the BCM is seeing exactly what it's supposed to. I disconnected the battery and did the 30-minute security fix as best I could (meaning I didn't try to start it as it would have started). Is there any hope of making the security light go away without replacing the BCM? Thank you kindly for all your help!
Tools Required:
* Tech 2
* Techline terminal with current SPS (Service Programming System) software
1. Connect the Tech 2 to the vehicle.
2. Select "Request Information" under "Service Programming".
3. Disconnect the Tech 2 from the vehicle and connect it to a Techline terminal.
4. On the Techline terminal, select "Theft Module Re-Learn" under "Service Programming".
5. Disconnect the Tech 2 from the Techline terminal and connect it to the vehicle.
6. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
7. Select "VTD Re-Learn" under "Service Programming".
8. Attempt to start the engine, then release the key to ON (vehicle will not start).
9. Observe the SECURITY telltale, after approximately 10 minutes the telltale will turn OFF. The vehicle is now ready to relearn the Passlock Sensor Data Code and/or password on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK.
10. Turn OFF the ignition, and wait 5 seconds .
11. Start the engine. The vehicle has now learned the password.
12. With the Tech 2, scan tool, clear any DTCs.
30 Minute Learn Procedure
Tools Required: None
1. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
2. Attempt to start the engine, then release the key to ON (vehicle will not start).
3. Observe the SECURITY telltale, after approximately 10 minutes the telltale will turn OFF.
4. Turn OFF the ignition, and wait 5 seconds .
5. Repeat steps 1 through 4, 2 more times for a total of 3 cycles/30 minutes . The vehicle is now ready to relearn the Passlock Sensor Data Code and/or passwords on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK. IMPORTANT: The vehicle learns the Passlock Sensor Data Code and/or password on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK. You must turn the ignition OFF before attempting to start the vehicle.
6. Start the engine. The vehicle has now learned the Passlock Sensor Data Code and/or password.
7. With a scan tool, clear any DTCs if needed. History DTCs will self clear after 100 ignition cycles.
1. Would replacing the BCM solve the security-not-found solid light issue regardless of if programming with the Tech2 would help?
2. Would it be plug-and-play save for a 10-minute learn procedure?
Thanks again for the great resource.
~ i've missed my birthday party because of this problem and i really need some help ~
Your best bet is to find a shop with a grubby, lecherous old mechanic, and have your girlfriend take the car in and plead with him to fix her car so daddy don't find out that she broke it.
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!
What are they going to "fix" for $250?
If the security light was flashing when this happened did you try the 10 minute reset?
Dick
David
2. How was it determined the starter was "bad" if it was replaced and it didn't help?
3. When the ignition switch is turned to start, is there power at the starter solenoid? That should have been test #2, after checking the battery. The starter won't turn unless the solenoid engages the starter gear and closes the main power contacts for the cranking windings in the starter.
David
David
1. The car would not start...no clicking, not turning over, nothing except the hum of the fuel pump, the click of the relay in the fuse block under the hood, and all of the accessories when the key was turned to the "ON" position worked (lights, pwr windows/door lock, trunk release, dash lights and gauges).
2. I removed the battery and had it tested....it was good.
3. I removed the starter and had it tested...it was bad.
4. I installed the new starter and attempted to start the car....nothing except what was mentioned above before beginning any work on the car.
5. Performed the reset procedure described in some of the posts on this forum:
a) turned the key to the "ON" position and waited 15 minutes.
b) turned the key off and then tried to start the car...started fine.
c) turned off the car and tried restarting it...it started fine again.
Now, I do not know why this worked or why the security system needed reset. Possibly because I removed the battery.
Also, be aware that the security display light will stay on until the system resets, then it will turn off. I did not notice if it was flashing or if it just stayed on the entire 15 minutes but it was flashing when I turned the key on and was not lit when I went back 15 minutes later to try to start the car.
This is just an FYI....go ahead and try to reset the Passlock Security System if your vehicle will not start. If it works...great, if not, well at leat you can check one item off the list of possible causes. I hope this helps anyone who may have this type of problem.
David
Also, there are no relays under the hood that control power to the starter. What you are hearing is most likely the starter solenoid, which is mounted to the starter, which is also under the hood. It's possible that your car may have a bad starter solenoid, or bad brushes in the starter motor, which can cause intermittent operation of the starter motor. If you have this problem again, try crawling under the car and hitting the starter motor with a small hammer... anything to cause it to move even the slightest amount. You might also try tapping the solenoid as well. Something to keep in mind, in case you get the same problem again.
This is when I found out about the pass lock problems and the 10min reset procedure. She has been doing this whenever it happens and she is off and running 10min late. It only happens in the summer and it only happens in the mornings. This seems weird to me. Just last week I found the 30min relearn procedure and the non-solder resistor fix. I want to try the 30min process before tearing in to the dash.
Last night I tried the 30min procedure 2x. The first time I was able to do the first 2 cycles but the third time going from on to run and back to on for 10min it started. Same thing happened the second time around. How can I get the car to not start but still turning the car to start position? Does the car have to have the security light on to do the 30min procedure? I read that the car just needs to "bump start" and I thought I could do this without the car starting but it was almost impossible for me to not get the car to start. I had an idea to pull the fuel pump fuse so that maybe the car wouldn't start, will this work?
By the way, It's not that complicated to get the radio out. Just follow the instructions. Once you get the bezel off of the radio, it's just three screws holding the radio in place, then disconnect the antenna and wiring cable from the radio and sit it aside.
There are relays in the fuse block under the hood that do deal with the ignition of the vehicle. I do have the vehicle here to check but there is one that is indicated as "ignition" or "starter" on the fuse layout on the fuse block cover....and it does click when attempting to start the vehicle. The noise I heard was not the starter soleniod. As I said in my post the starter was replaced before trying the Passlock procedure and the clicking sound still occurred but from the fuse block.
David
Have you spoke with your dealer of choice? I would definitely recommend speaking with them if only to have them diagnosis the vehicle. I would ask them to look into the ignition. Hope this helps! Have a great weekend!
Christina
GM Customer Service
What you describe as your symptoms sounds like a low battery. If your battery voltage drops below 10 volts while trying to start, it could cause all the symptoms you describe, including the clicking under the hood but the starter not turning over, and the Passlock system getting a "false failure" since under low voltage conditions, the BCM would not be able to read the correct signal from the ignition key.
If I were you, I would disconnect the battery cables from the battery and check for corrosion. Clean the contact points on both the battery and cables, and re-connect them. Then test your battery by trying to start the vehicle 3 or 4 times in quick succession. If the battery is OK, you should have no problem starting at least 6 times in rapid succession.
2. Is it easier to do the fix by the radio or at the BCM?
3. Do I need to disconnect the battery (I didn't see that step in the Preferred Method)?
4. After cutting the 2 wires from the ignition and installing the resistor on the wires to the BCM, what do I do with the 2 cut ends at the ignition? Thank you.
Great site.
You are very welcome. There are those that question the problem I had, but that does not mean it did not happen that way. I am nearly positive the problem I had is with the passlock security system, but I have read that it just can not be. Well, I disagree.
In your case it would be wise to double-check the battery (remove it and get it tested), lovemygrandam may be correct. It may be a sign your battery is on its last legs. Also, there are posts on this forum that may help you bypass/disable the security system if choose to do so.
I am still trying to find a way to disable the security system in the 2005 grand am that has the problem.
Anyway, again I am glad it worked for you. Take care.
Best regards,
David
Thanks in advanced for your help.
2. The car doesn't need to be running when you cut the black and yellow wires, since you are going to do the relearn procedure after substituting the resistor into the circuit in place of the passlock module.
3. use either of these two procedures:
http://bergerweb.net/PasslockFix/index.shtml
or:
http://bergerweb.net/AleroSecurity/index.shtml
I would suggest the second procedure if you have some experience with soldering. If you do, then note that it's OK to cut the black wire, rather than just scraping off insulation. Just make sure the resistor you install is connected to the wires that come from the BCM, not the ones that go to the ignition module.
The black and yellow wire ends that go to the ignition module can be left not connected to anything. it's a good idea to tape them so there are no bare ends.
P.S Is it possible this is a Passlock II and is that going to be a problem?
Thanks.
1999 - 2004 Oldsmobile Alero
1997 - 2003 Chevrolet Malibu
1999 - 2004 Pontiac Grand Am
These are all Passlock II systems. If you are able to find the wiring bundle with three wires in it, and you have identified the yellow and black wires, you are all set to go.
I believe you can trace your problem to the correct defective part by following the troubleshooting procedure in the shop manual. I don't have a manual for that particular year Grand Am, but you should get one if you intend to do your own repairs. It will be well worth the money you spend on it.
By the way, are you stating your fuel pressure in PSI or KPA?
My other consideration is the microprocessor controlling the Passlock system, shown in the wiring diagram to be on the back of the instrument cluster. A trip to the local Buick dealer was unproductive in trying to pin down the shape or exact location of this MPU. There are several "97 Grand Ams in the wrecking yards, maybe a cluster from one of them might solve it (?)
The $125 for the shop manual is not unreasonable, but the 10-day wait will drive someone batty. Of the hundreds of cars owned by myself and my family members, I have done all the repairs since 1976, when I got my degree in auto tech. When they break down out of state, I just tow them home and fix them here. I believe the manual would be a lot less than a tech with less experience than me will want to charge to solve this problem.
I believe the manual would be a lot less than a tech with less experience than me will want to charge to solve this problem.
Good point!
My manuals have saved me literally thousands of dollars. I got manuals for my two cars when I bought them new, and I "borrowed" my Grand Am manual from the shop at GM Proving Ground where I worked. There are other sources. I've used online manuals from http://www.alldatadiy.com for just $27/year. They aren't exactly like the manufacturer's shop manual, but they're good enough to do most everything that a shade-tree mechanic would want to undertake, and it's easy to print out the pages you need and keep them for reference later on.
The gf is getting ready to call the junkyard to haul it off. It's a shame, under 100K, no dings or rust. AZ car. I need to go out of town for a few days for a family emergency.
I have a 2002 Grand am GT, Automatic Transmission, 75,000 miles. My parents took my car on a weekend road trip and when they got back i went to start my car and the security light was bright red and solid on my dash. I drove it around a little bit and after my last stop I shut car off and tried to start again and I have lights, radio, etc. but the car would not start. The car had no clicking of the starter, nothing other than what i wrote before. It was if the battety was completely dead. (New battery) I did the 10 minute reset and the car started up and light is gone and has started the last 10 times I tried, but i haven't drove anywhere in it yet afraid that it will do it again. Has anyone had any luck that this was a one time deal and didn't happen again? Plus will this Passlock make the car engine sound like it is working harder? And will this make rpm on idle be 1200? What sound the engine sound like in a Grand Am GT? Loud? Smooth? Should it be at 2200- 2500 rmp at 55 miles an hour? Just wondering if it's okay to do new disable of system or if something else is cause?
From your description it sounds somewhat like an ignitionswitch or related circuit problem was the culprit when it wouldn't start, but that's just a guess.
Passlock won't make the engine work harder.
It won't effect the idle (other than the fact it won't run if it's tripped).
It should sound somewhat louder than a standard GA due to the exhaust but it's no big difference. The big difference is in the final drive gearing in the GT.
The rpm's at 55mph is determined by the load. If it's in overdrive that sounds a little high, but under power or going uphill that could be normal.