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Toyota Land Cruiser



  • hicairahicaira Posts: 276
    The LC is already too big for him. The Sequoia is bigger yet. Doubt that it would work. Maybe you can sell him a Limited Highlander.

    Now, I can understand being dissapointed by a car purchase. If I am though, it is because the car's performance or reliability do not measure up to expectations. The gas pedal vibration may sound a bit "princess & the Pea"ish, but hey, it ain't my foot. OTOH, realizing AFTER I buy a car that it is "just too big", is another thing altogether. I mean, did it grow since you bought it? Did it get heavier? Sounds to me like someone rushed into a purchase. Buy in haste and regret in leisure, and all that. Fact is, Dewd's loss (as in the hit you took for the depreciation) will be someone elses gain. A low mile LC for thousands less than new.

    Finally, the LC not really being a true off-roader? The fact that Dewd is considering the X5 indicates that he, not the LC, is "Not the true off-roader". Speak not of that which you know nothing. Besides, the Audi AllRoad is probably a much better choice if hybrid station wagons are your forte.

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 18,554
    I too am perplexed. But as Hi C has said, I have not walked a mile in your shoes. Whomever comes behind and buys your TLC will have a great vehicle. Best of luck in your new purchase.
  • topgntopgn Posts: 132
    Wife will stop working next year, and we are trying to reduce costs.. One of the ways is selling my 2000 LX470 (only 6,000. miles) purchased for only $55,000. However, we have a boat that weighs in at 5500 with trailer. I llke the 4runner but with one kid and one on the way maybe the Sequoia SR5 will fit my lifestyle better than the 4runner. What can I expect to get for the LX in trade or sell outright ( always a bigger hassle)... any suggestions..???
  • gqtenggqteng Posts: 10
    Steve, I wish you luck on your endeavors to find a suitable vehicle for your needs and expectations. There really is no "perfect" vehicle. Sometimes small imperfections that are missed on test drives later come back to haunt you as you get accustomed to the new vehicle. And I had been in that situation before when I bought a Volvo. Hicaira made several good points in his post #34 that I totally agree with. I will leave it at that and rub no more salt into your wounds.

    My 2000 LC is running smooth and quiet. No booming sound discernible from my stereo/speaker system. No vibration felt at all on my gas pedal. All is well at 5200 miles.
  • joeeblow1joeeblow1 Posts: 238
    topgn, You are cracking me up. Your wife is quitting work, and you need to reduce expenses. Instead of selling your boat, you want to get a different vehicle??? Sell the boat!!! And buy a used car. Priorities, my man.
  • No matter what car or truck you put in page, it comes up so far back of invoice/actual cost, you can take a Greyhound there.

    Now, go back and try to actually BUY it for that! is NOT the yardstick with which to measure a good deal by. It's more a "wishful" thinking sorta place, like an AOL chatroom where all the chatters are CA-Blonde, Bambi1969, and Sensualllle... ya know? Maybe I could start getting our Landcruisers from and save us a few thousand in costs.

  • dmac8dmac8 Posts: 54
    Cars Direct is a good benchmark. Obviously, the proof of the pudding......

    I've owned 2 TLC's, a 92 and presently, a 95. The only really negative part of either experience, has been with the dealer where I originally bought them in Chicago, and subsequently with dealers in Las Vegas and the LA area.

    The lessons for me in this are that price and selection are the sole determining factors as to where and from whom I buy. Since selection is reasonably consistent, it leaves price.

    Dianne seems to imply that there is a floor to TLC pricing, although only vaguely. She is entitled to tell you what she will sell something for, but don't lard it with prognostications about what someone else may sell it for.

    Any buyer of this vehicle should do due diligence and shop widely. It will take X amount of time to complete the process so any money left in your pocket is to your good.

    Your mission is to find the seller that on any given day, will take less. Friends of mine have purchased 00 and 01 versions of these vehicles from anywhere from $500 under to $500 over invoice.

    I respect anyone who works at building a "franchise" in this sort of forum, but its insulting to imply a user of Cars Direct is the type of person deluded in AOL chat rooms.

    Is there any prohibition against posting what someone purchased, from whom, and what they paid?
  • You can post whatever you like here, for the most part. I became involved here a while back, probably a thousand posts ago when someone I sold a LC to who traded a problematic Range Rover posted that he'd bought his LC for $100 over invoice.

    My email and website was instantly barraged, and I do mean barraged with Landcruiser requests. I posted here to clarify that it was not ALL of my LCs at that pricing... and plenty of folks expected me to be able to do odd things, even calling their local dealers and allowing my inventory to be picked up there.

    I've answered planty of questions, and posted a ton of information. I have also sold at least two dozen Landcruisers to a terrific array of Tow Hall members who just wanted a fair, no hassle deal. The car they want at a truly good no haggle/no BS price. Most of you are across many areas of the country, too.

    Explain to me how carsdirect can quote $47500 on a Landcruiser 2001 with BG CF C7 when that car MSRPs for almost 57000 and costs me, as a dealer, right now *OVER* $50,000 at the new 11/1/00 pricing increase ...and even prior to the pricing increase is still cost us $2000 more than what they have on the carsdirect screen?
    You cuss out the greedy dealer because of what one internet site posted THEY can sell a car for, but as I said, they are too far off to even consider the price a reality. I have, prior to the pricing increase, sold a 2001 LC with BG CF C7 for $49999 because the color of the car isn't a good one for us retail. That was about $500 bucks over cost. isn't a dealer --and I assure you... they cannot and will not sell a 2001 Landcruiser for 47500 with BG CF C7. That's a more than $2500 loser deal right now.
  • dmac8dmac8 Posts: 54
    I'm not interested in promoting or defending Cars Direct. I suggested they are a useful reference source and led my comments with "the proof of the pudding...."

    I used to be in the car business and am still in sales. From my experience, when you want to discredit information, its best to go lightly on the insults, as in, "if you believe their pricing, you'll believe in love on the internet at AOL chat rooms".

    These vehicles will generally sell for whatever the market will bear, and sometimes, whatever someone will pay.

    TLC's were list price items for a long time. Increased supply and price, along with greater competition have altered that paradigm.

    The odds that I will ever see the person who sells me this vehicle, after completing the transaction, are very slim.

    For this reason, price is paramount. Not a price outwith practical reality, but the lowest I can find. Some things I might pay more for, but shtik wouldn't be one of them.
  • dmac8dmac8 Posts: 54
    It was interesting reading some of the previous posts on people having negative experiences with rattles, poor performing stereos etc. These comments were usually followed by "I expected much more in a $55,000 vehicle".

    Sad reality is, you might experience more quality glitches in a $100,000 vehicle. This is not to rationalize quality shortcomings, but I drove a 01 S500 MB that had some surprising lapses in quality, for a mere 90 grand.

    Qualitatively speaking, I think TLC's are better than anything in the MB line and will prove it out over time.

    I'm fortunate enough to own 2 vehicles and as a result, I tend to only use the TLC for the utility part of its mission. Hauling people, cargo, or both. I've never done any serious off-road driving and towed a U-Haul trailer, once, from Chicago to LA.

    Even before the towing experience (which was mostly positive), I coveted the V8 for the increase in power, and the general level of amenities the new series has.

    However, even though I've never been an off-roader, I like the idea that these vehicles can facilitate that. Problem is, who will take that beautiful paint job and interior into the back country to experience water, mud, rocks and all the other hazards.

    If money is no object, the TLC is part of a stable of vehicles and you wouldn't mind hauling it through the dirt.

    If it's a boulevard cruiser, there are plusher and more comfortable alternatives.

    If you want a hybrid, buy the cheapest Jeep (which is a great off-road and fun vehicle) and a 3 series BMW. Both will consume as much gas and be close to the same insurance combined, as a TLC.

    Perhaps I can get 20 grand for my 95,leaving me 30 short for a new TLC, or, I could keep the 95 and buy an S2000 Honda.

    But, like a moth and the flame, I'll probably defy logic as I think about the V8 and those extra cup-holders.
  • At least here in Atlanta, the online dealers (carorder, carsdirect, greenlight, etc) were selling some cars below dealer cost and subsidizing the difference with a check to the dealer. I'm not sure if they're still doing that, but it was pretty common for at least a year.
  • ixixviixixvi Posts: 24
    Let me state that this information is fact not speculation.

    I purchased this week a 01 LX 470.

    I just priced it as equipped on for zip code 90049.

    The price quoted by for my zip code is $1329.00 over what I paid.

    I paid $2000 over invoice. I had two such quotes to choose from. I accepted the first quote at that price that was faxed to me a month ago. The second quote was faxed the next day and this dealer was closer to my home but I had already sent the deposit check to the first dealer [80 miles away] who quoted.

    I am currently driving the vehicle and love it. By the way it has Nav, Mark Levinson I think at this time the most desirable options.

    Good Luck everyone.
  • Dianne/Cliffy,

    Currently i owned a 2000 TLC w/o the option of Nav system. The 01 has it as an option. Is there a way for me to add the Nav system that will make it look like an avail. option? I don't want the one that you add that protrudes from your dashboard. I want the factory-built look. Is it possible and at what cost? Living in Northern Calif. i found it now to be a "must". Too bad it was not an option on the 2000 LC.

    thanks a lot,
  • Hi Everyone!

    I am looking at these two models. Can any one
    educate me on why need to pay more for a smaller
    LC while their frames look very similar in features.


  • I went to see the seq this week-end to answer the same question. the LC and the SEQ are completely different. IMHO the LC is still more upscale than the SEQ.

    Now do not get me wrong the SEQ is a wonderful vehicle if you are looking for a BEAST!

    The LC is more sophisticated and refined. It is also noticeable smaller. Which may be a good thing for some.

    But I guess you will have to judge for yourself.

  • jam1000jam1000 Posts: 182
    I agree 100% with truckdigger on differences between LC and Sequoia. Following is something I posted on the Sequoia site (#223) after a test-drive that is a more long-winded way of saying the same thing.

    "I test drove an SR5 the other day. Here are my

    RIDE QUALITY -- very good for what it is. It
    handled quite well in mostly suburban driving
    conditions. Acceleration was decent. I say "for
    what it is" to emphasize that it is a truck, not a
    car or minivan. People should recognize this fact
    if they are seriously considering the Seq. If you
    like or at least don't mind a truck-like feel,
    you'll probably like the Seq. a lot. If "car-like
    ride" is your paramount concern, you will probably
    be disappointed.

    QUIETNESS -- The vehicle I test drove made an
    incredibly loud whining sound from the front end at about 20-25 mph and up. I'm willing for the
    moment to attribute this to the thin plastic
    protective layer that Toy. puts on its vehicles
    when it ships them to dealers (the dealer hadn't
    yet taken it off). A test drive of another Seq.
    w/o the protective layer will confirm whether I'm
    right. Even putting that aside, there seemed to be a little bit of wind noise as I got over 40 mph, and engine noise was always much louder in this vehicle than in the LC. No discernible
    squeaks/rattles on this short test drive. On
    balance, assuming the front-end noise was due to
    the plastic layer, I'd say the Seq. is SOMEWHAT
    superior to Expedition and Tahoe on this score, but not as good as LC or LX470.

    BRAKES -- a littly spongy, IMO.

    FIT & FINISH -- seemed good, but my test drive was
    at night, so it was hard to tell (particularly
    regarding the interior).

    ERGONOMICS -- front dash controls were very well
    laid out; everything was easily accessible. The
    oval face of the dash controls and the steering
    wheel-mounted shifter did not bother me. Since I
    was driving an SR5, not a Limited, the apparently
    offensive silver rim around the dash controls was
    not there. The black looked fine.

    ROOMINESS -- quite good. The SR5 did not have a
    moon roof, so the headroom was more than ample.
    Storage space, front and rear, was also good. I
    think Toy. went a little overboard with 5 sunglass
    holders in the roof console.

    COMPETITION -- when the salesman was explaining
    the Seq's features, he was ALWAYS comparing it to
    the Expedition and Tahoe/Yukon. He NEVER said a
    word about the MDX or Suburban. It's clear that
    Toy. is targeting Exp. and Tahoe and believes
    (perhaps incorrectly, given many of the posts in
    this topic) that most Seq. shoppers are not also
    looking at MDX and/or Suburban.

    COMPARISON TO LC -- within the first 2 minutes of
    my drive, I concluded there IS a difference b/w the Seq. and the LC. Dianne and Cliffy have described the 2 vehicles as having a different "feel," and I think this is quite accurate, if also hard to describe or measure. There were actually a couple things I liked more about the Seq. than my LC: (1) the rear lift-gate of the Seq., which folds up in one piece rather than out in 2 pieces (as in LC) makes it easier to access the cargo/3rd seat area; (2) the trip computer. (The Seq. is also bigger than the LC, which can be an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on your needs and preferences.) However, in addition to the mechanical differences b/w the two, the LC has a more car-like feel, it is considerably quieter and smoother-riding, it feels more nimble, it handles
    better, and the brakes are superior. The Seq. felt, to me at any rate, like a SUV version of the
    Tundra, with some refinements and bells-and-whistles that trucks do not have. (I must emphasize: this is NOT an insult. I've driven the Tundra and think it is by far the best truck on the market.)

    There's been a lot of speculation about the future
    of the LC. My own opinion, after having test-driven the Seq., is that there is room for both. (And, I find it hard to believe that Toy. would give up the LC badge after just having initiated a TV ad campaign leading with and highlighting the LC in connection with Toy.'s long heritage in the SUV business.) Actually, I wonder what 4Runner's niche will be, now that the Seq. has been introduced and the Highlander will be introduced in the near future."
  • I just got a 2001 LC with the Navigation system and love it!

    My dealer though told me that additional 6 disc cartridges cost $50!!

    That seems like quite a lot, so I'm wondering if anyone would know if they are compatible with any other audio companies cartridges and where I could find them. Buying on the net would be great.

    I know that they're not compatible with the Pioneer cartridges since I had some of them around.

  • lc2000lc2000 Posts: 33
    Both Pioneer and Phillips make an after market in-dash nav system for the LC (and other vehicles). Cost is around 2K, give or take. However, both systems replace your current stereo and cd player, which is a big minus. I believe Toyota's installed Nav system runs about 3K. I'm not sure if that includes the 6 disk cd player. Dianne/Cliffy . . . can you help.
  • I find it amusing, having been a member of this board for a few months now, to see salespeople spew forth barely disguised invectives all in the name of knowledge gained from selling 5-10 TLC units monthly.

    I have never liked know-it-all salespeople. I INTENSELY dislike know-it-all 'internet' salespeople who do not know enough to seek clarification before shooting off a response.

    Dianne, if you knew enough not to display amazingly crass ignorance, you would ask why CarsDirect would 'allegedly' sell or offer for sale a loaded TLC back of cost. If you knew better, you would be aware that CarsDirect raised over S280M in venture capital. If you had taken a little bit of time to attempt to broaden your knowledge base, you would be aware that CD has publicly admitted to subsidizing (in the short term) vehicles to gain marketshare AND mindshare.

    That is reality. It might be slightly displaced from yours (or vice versa) but it is reality. It is particularly real for buyers who are driven enough to do their homework, search high and low (offline and online) and can pick up a nicely equipped TLC (from a source other than you) for a price less than you choose to offer.

    If you feel sharing this info on this board reduces your opportunities to make a few sales and thus the right reaction is to belittle it, I suggest you either terminate your participation here or do the right thing, apologize and learn from this.

    No one is forcing you to sell the loaded '01 TLC for $50K and no one is forcing us consumers to buy one from you. We all make choices for varying reasons. At least those of us on this board who can afford one must have made a few right choices along the way. Respect that and respect yourself and others will respect you.
  • gqtenggqteng Posts: 10
    Amen to you both,truckdigger and sweetv12! I couldn't have said it any better.

    Now, for you folks who are shopping for a LC or other SUV's, PLEASE DON'T BUY THEM FROM CARSON TOYOTA!

    14 years ago, I was in the market for a Japanese 4 door sedan. I went to Carson Toyota to test drive a Camry, but the salesman was arrogant and not mention belittled me for not being able to put any money down before taking a test drive. Imagine that! I think this is the way all the salespeople in Carson Toyota are being trained.

    For years I avoided going to a Toyota dealership. I bought from Honda and a Volvo instead. I bought my first Toyota product last May 2000 because the LC had better value than the rest of the upper scale SUV's out there. I was treated like a human being at another Toyota dealership. After photocopying my driver's license, the salesman gave me the keys to the LC and I drove it around the busy streets and freeways for 45 minutes. The salesman didn't even need to accompany me. That really restored my faith in Toyota. The rest is history.

    Dianne, I don't trust you and the Carson Toyota dealership that you represent.
  • lc2000lc2000 Posts: 33
    C'mon people. Just do your homework and buy your car from whomever you damn well please. This is an open forum and anyone has the right to state their opinion. If you don't agree with what's said, that doesn't give you the right to get nasty. If Cliffy or Dianne have an opinion about something, they are free to state it--Even if others disagree.

    Both of these people are valuable contributors to this board, and I hope that this recent barrage of insults will not drive them away. I personally want to thank them both for the assistance they have rendered me. Each has taken the time to send me private E-mails, answering questions I had about my LC. I didn't buy my car from them, but that didn't stop them from answering a question or trying to help me solve a problem.

    Thank You,
  • Ok, I read all the srguments about what is a correct price or what is not for a TLC. Well, I am about to buy one, so what can I actually expect to pay. I have seen the Carsdirect and Driveoff price, is it realistic to purchase a TLC below these prices (Driveoff qouted 53.1 and 52.7 for a 01 TLC with convenience package and 3rd seat. Can I reasonably expect to purchase a TLC of this configuration for around 51k? Waht have other on this board who have recently purchased a TLC paid? Thanks for the info.
  • Dianne and Cliffy have provided so much insight and info to this forum! It's been truly refreshing and a treat. Sure, many of us have had bad experiences with car salespersons. That doesn't make 'em all bad! And that holds true with any one dealership.

    So, let's back to the real business of this forum, providing POSITIVE information.
  • Just a quick note. I have been having problems with the stereo in my 2001 Tlc. Dianne has been most helpful to give me what information she can to help this process along. Yes infact it has gotten so bad with how corporate Toyota has handled this problem that it is going into arbitration's. Dianne did not sell me this car but has made my case stronger to get this problem fixed!!! Mind you she is the only representitive at Toyota, as of now that seems to give a .....
  • hicairahicaira Posts: 276
    You had a bad experience at a dealer 14 YEARS AGO! Oh my God, stop the presses and call the CA Atty. General!

    Dude, that's a long time to carry a grudge for something as a bad salesguy experience. I highly doubt he is there now as I highly doubt Dianne was there at the time. Move on.

    I have been a member of this board since its first incarnation and fully support Dianne and Cliffy. I may not always agree with them, but consider them valuable and vital members of these discussions.

    So there.

  • I think I need a drink!
    And, I don't even drink.

    Thanks to those who know me well enough in many ways to post positively. "Whatever" to those who don't.

  • Hi,
    Re: Post #53 Thanks for the info.

    Dianne/Cliffy- i just talked to Concord Toyota and they told me that they can not do a navigation system factory installation on my 2000 LC. Is that correct? Any input from you would be appreciated as i really want to add this nav system. Being in a crowded city (Bay Area-SF) it sure helps to have one in your truck.

    To anyone who have done this pls let me know also.

  • gqteng, You're complaining about the antics of a dealership from 14 years ago?! Talk about holding a grudge.
  • hicairahicaira Posts: 276

    A life awaits you.


    I guess the guys on the floor stealing your leads was just too much?

    Anyway, best of luck in the new gig.
  • Other very good sources and sounding board "sites" for pricing are,, and, and they are all fee-based like carsdirect is.

    Autoweb charges the dealers on a per-lead basis. Typically, it's $25 per lead. If you log into autoweb and request best-pricing on a Honda Accord, a Toyota Camry, a Mazda 626, a Ford Taurus, and a Nissan Altima, that's 5 cars total. If they have 3 Toyota dealers, 4 Honda dealers, 2 Nissan dealers, 2 Mazda dealers, and 2 Ford dealers in your area to send quote requests to, that's 13 total requests that fly thru the net at $25 each. Mathematically, it nets Autoweb $325 on one shot. Multiply it times the thousands of requests a day. Wow! charges dealers a monthly fee of anywhere from $750 to $1500 (high metro areas) every month no matter how many leads are provided. and a few other sites have wanted, in the past, 1% of the price of the car. Meaning, if the car's a $30,000 car, they get $300 from the dealer for providing the customer. The pricier the car, the more they want your attention so the better the deal appears initially.

    Priceline bills $200 for every car sold thru them, period. Echo, Camry, Landcruiser, regardless of the profit margin it's a flat $200. And, Stoneage is another one that comes to mind that charges per-lead like Autoweb.

    In this day and age, when consumer are so aware, educated, and able to get into the internet and able to go right to a place like Edmunds here and price out what their sense of invoice is, why not connect directly with the dealerships and fleet managers and explain what you think is fair and go with it. If the dealers or fleet folks don't agree, move to the next one. Good way to do this is thru email because it's faster and more time efficient. If you make an offer you think is reasonable but all of the fleet folks say "no" then it's time to reconsider your offer or reconsider the model or features you want.

    The online services glean money by the thousands off dealers, and it affects your bottom line greatly without you realizing it.

    Last spring, my better half insisted on a silver Limited PT Cruiser 5-speed, and refused to budge. Ugh. It took me 2 weeks, 12 emails and even more phone calls as a consumer to find someone willing to build-order the car for me for $100 over invoice. And, I would have paid more but she made that offer to me right off the bat with no hassle. I set the order in May and no, we have no car yet. It's slated to drop this month, later this month.
    Did I get the best deal? Nope, not the best deal for me because we really needed the new car sooner. Before the registration was due on the old car (92 Honda Prelude), and before the old car needed a bit of repair to the engine, and before it went over 100k miles. I'd have paid more for a car sooner, but the trouble was, there simply was no car sooner. I'd have paid more had there been a car sooner, though. I hit the online places I just posted above and no luck at all, not even at full MSRP.

    It's not always about money. I know I have bestowed some unbelievable pricing upon folks for LCs (and lately, Sequoias) across the USA... even lower than they expected or imagined.

    It's very good advice to follow that path, ie. try a few emails to locals and fleet folks locally to you, or close enough for you to drive comfortably. There are some very good people out there in fleet departments who will work with you. Of course, if you strike out and give up, I'm more than happy to help, or email with advice, as is Cliffy in VA too. He's going thru a job change but regardless of that, he's a kind, decent man and is very knowledgeable as well. We do pay attention to what's said here, and respond to that which isn't completely out of line.

    Of course, no matter where you purchase, I always wish ya'll well with the beautiful new Landcruisers you buy. In the 2001 models, a handful seem to have stereo bass-control problems and I feel that Toyota will find a fix for it soon. It may take a few more cars/calls and for them to hear from a few more buyers, but there are so few Landcruisers allocated as yet, it's possibly just not enough of a roar.

    Anyway, I am not here *just* to market cars. I have plenty of other things to sell, and plenty of ways to sell them. Answering the questions I am able to answer here and responding to everyone's needs here that I can is really what it's all about. Interestingly enough, I have found that for the most part, the folks I have sold off the board here are *usually* (but not always) very far away and quite a few have literally vanished from here now that they have their cars. It's the same with a few other sites/models. Lots of folks contact me for pricing on lots of cars that read Edmunds forums. But, not everyone posts. I hope this helps everyone, not just those who post, to practice due diligence in getting their fair, decent deals.

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