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Comments
Unibody construction is not a bad thing. Actually some of the better 4wd are going to it for its INCREASED strength.
The JGC, Montero both have this and both are excellent 4wd for serious conditions short of what you would need a small jeep for.
Unibodies as a general rule ride better and are quiter as well.
I am not an engineer but this has been the overwhelming belief I have seen where unibody and frame rails are discussed.
Why? I dont know. The 99 and 00 arent really different....or are they. There was a concern that they went to an aluminum rear end but continued to press in the axles and this was resulting in misalignment at the pinion ?sp gears. This small misalignment resulted in pre mature failure.
His brakes warped...cheep discs from factory
His power window went out
Pulling to right complicated by inability to adjust becasue some part was needed as an upgrade to be able to adjust camber or caster (I forget which one it was)
All and all. His replacement 00 has not had any of these problems. He has the Upcountry suspension which is much better than stock with another inch clearence and the vehicle looks nice and is ergonomically very well designed. I have done some 4wding in Moab, UT and it did very well.
The Jeep minimizes this by using a solid front axle. This reduces the stress sent to the body but does not eliminate it. Serious off roading requires a frame. This is why the Wrangler and Cherokee still have a frame. It is why every truck has one. It is why Nissan has a warning label on the sun visor warning that the vehicle is not intended for off road use (at least it did 2 years ago).
Now if there is an engineer out there who is well versed in the mondern unibody vs rail construction I think Cliffy and I would love to hear you jump in here.
Let me explain, the music quality is great when the the motor is off, but once a fire it up, the extreme low range bass is boosted considerably. It is especially noticable when the radio is being played at a low to moderate volume. The bass booms almost drown out the mid range and treble tones. If I turn the motor off, the bass boost drops and everything sounds fine. The extreme low bass boom presents itself even with the bass level adjusted to (-5), the lowest possible level.
Has anyone else experienced this. I suspect this may be an automatic bass boost that kicks in when the motor is started. Alternatively, this could be caused by a bad or non-existant filter. At any rate, it is extremely annoying and make listening to the sound system at low to moderate volumes levels very annoying. To be completely honest, this problem is substanial enough that had I known about it prior to purchase, I may not have purchased the TLC.
Any observations?
It is my belief that it is related to the transfer case. I suggest everyone that has experienced this problem and those who have not, put their hand on the high low 4wd shift lever while accelerating. If your experience is anything like mine you will notice a significant and distrubing amount of vibration. Those who experience the gas pedal and/or shifter vibration will note that the frequency of the 4wd shift lever is the same.
My conclusion:
The vibration is either related to a design flaw in the transfer case causing it to vibrate a greater amount than is reasonable, OR the transfer case mounts are not properly designed to isolate the vibrations which are transferred through the body to the gas pedal. Note that the problem could be come more acute, as has been reported, at higher mileages because of a breackdown in the transfer case isolation mounts.
Please comment.
Have you experienced the vibration when driving any of the TLC's at your dealership?
Both the vibration problem and the stereo problem are very real as evidenced by the numbers of board participants describing the same problems.
Given the amount that all of us have spent on the TLC we are right in expecting that they perform better than the run of the mill SUV.
A large number of SUV's sold may be unibody, but this is only because the manufacturer is bowing to the desires people have in terms of handling and ride.
If you look at the various suppliers who suplly SUV's for true off road use, they are all body on frame for the reasons Cliffy cites.
Every military SUV is body on frame as are all the Land Rovers and TLC's you see on National Geographic specials.
Why don't Lexus' have these problems (or do they?). They could always replace your whole stereo/nav system with the Nak in the Lexus. The cost of the up should be on Toy just for the frustration.
HiC
In most respects, with the exception of off-road capability, the 98 and on TLC is a better vehicle.
But perhaps the deciding factor for me is in the reading of these posts. I like my truck, but after owning it for 5 years, I opt for my car whenever I just have to get somewhere.
I like being able to listen to my stereo at high speed and not have to contend with the bulk.
Ironically, I think the justification for a TLC in big urban areas is the preponderance of these types of vehicles. They block safe vision at intersections and the only way to overcome that is to be in one yourself. That bulk and the law of physics plays a part as well.
But perhaps the nub of the posts from people who have issues with their TLC's is that if you want less than perfection, you can get a big domestic for thousands less.
As of now, it's a situation I can live with, since the noise goes away after 3-5 minutes and seems to happen only on cold mornings or if the vehicle has been out in the cold for a long time. Also (and I may be wrong about this), the noise seems to occur less often or is less noticeable when I have the air circulation system set to blow out on the floor rather than at face level. Does this make sense? Has anyone noticed this issue on other-than-98 LCs and, if so, what was the problem/fix? If the noise gets worse, I'll probably take it into another dealer, and the more ammunition I have the better.
I advised the dealer I was reluctant about taking delivery of the vehicle until and unless I received assurances from some official "high rankers" at Toyota that 1) there was in fact a problem recognized by Toyota, 2) that a "fix" was in the works, and 3) that if I took delivery of the vehicle they would provide me a written document attesting to the fact that the problem would be fixed.
The people from Toyota Quality Assurance in Irvine, California called me and said YES there is a problem. Apparently, the pre-amp was engineered too powerful. The amp was supposed to assit the radio to drown-out the road noise. This sounds like a little bit of "bull" to me. They said a fix was definitely in the works. They had in fact received many calls complaining about the problem. The "fix" might take up to three months.
I asked if the pre-amp could be disconnected. The response was no. To do so would disable the entire audio system. They were of the opinion once JBL provided them with the new replacement amp, the fix would be simple.
I figure with all the documentation I have, if a "fix" is not in the offing in a reasonable amount of time, arbitration would be a simpler solution.
I do so enjoy the way the vehicle handles. I truly don't think Toyota wants to intentionally tarnish their incredible record for reliability and a "fix" will be made available in a reasonable time frame.
" Mitsubishi Pajero GLS wagon (WHICH IS THE MONTERO 01 HERE IN THE US AS YOU KNOW)
3.5-litre V6, 5-speed automatic
Price: $51,500
Mitsubishi’s new Pajero GLS has raised the standard for four-wheel drives in several areas, and beat the Mercedes-Benz ML320 and Toyota 100 Series LandCruiser GLX to the best 4WD title.
On the road, the Pajero delivers class-leading ride, handling and steering, and braking, attracting consistently good scores.
The change to a unitary construction (with no separate chassis) has helped Mitsubishi to deliver best in class dynamics. The new chassis combines with fully independent suspension to provide an outstanding ride/handling compromise.
In this respect, it makes the LandCruiser feel like a truck.
Although the Toyota LandCruiser’s 4.5 litre engine delivers more pulling power in the low to mid rev range, the Mitsubishi Pajero’s 3.5 litre V6 also performs strongly.
New to the Pajero is a five-speed, adaptive auto transmission with a tiptronic-style manual shift mode.
Off the bitumen, the LandCruiser still has the edge but the Pajero is now very close. With a good approach angle, a smooth and willing engine, solid engine braking and reasonable wheel articulation, the Pajero copes with terrain that would have defeated the previous model.
For the money, the Pajero GLS also offers a long standard equipment list.
The ML320 uses the same great engine as the E320 sedan, but has limited off road ability, and the Pajero is at least equally capable on the road."
-Di
I wouldn't dispute anyones preference for one vehicle over the other. However, the simple fact is that the virtues of unibody construction are a detriment to an off-road vehicle, or one that will be towing something.
Off road, torsional stiffness is a detriment because terrain, as an example, will exert force over numerous points of the structure.
This force is not uniform and will undermine the integrity of the structure. As an example, consider the universally lower, towing weight limits of unibody vehicles.
With body on frame, these forces are limited to the frame, which has much greater structural integrity than the body.
The trade off with all of this, from my perception as an LC owner, is a vehicle that does not ride or handle anywhere near as well as the unibody suv's.
But, I wouldn't count on the unibodies to hold up with much towing or off road use.
Additionally, you might want to fax a specific individual in each dealership with the info and price etc.
This exercise is worthwhile because you place yourself in the best position to determine what something can be sold for at a given time.
If you enter into any quasi auction deal such as bid, counter bid etc., you may as well go to your local dealer and sit across from the guy there. This will cost you more money.
A little work can save you thousands.
That means, for me, I take some very valuable time these days helping someone else get a better deal locally. I'm not always that benevolent! I'm really insistent on better balancing my time to help others I interact with regularly here, a few other boards, and loads of referrals/previous buyers.
Might I make a better suggestion, to find someone who wants your business? Don't do as I explained above. It's really not cricket. And, it's gonna come back to haunt you... Karma being what it is. Your very best route to find someone ethical and who wants to earn your business is to hit email, and don't use the "typical" formats I see all the time, and delete when I am too busy to waste the time with a reply (because true batting average is 10% anyway). Make an email to individual fleet departments via their internet websites, and when they are not reach-able via email, call them. Introduce yourself and tell them you have a pricing request coming.
Re: auction bids, can you explain what you refer to here? I ask because my own dealership has a new car auction that I administrate, but it's a ton of work to maintain and in the past year, chasing buyers down who actually can't buy (poor credit, over-their-heads in trade ins) makes for a very weary-of-auction antics Dianne. Now, I post by request only. And, I pre-qualify anyone first. It really weeds out the BS. If someone qualifies, and they are serious, they will get a screamin' deal via my auction site. It's ONLY for the serious, though. Under the circumstances of my own auction site, it's a GREAT thing...and there's no bidding wars. You are having a car put up that's YOUR own choice, just for you.
-Dianne
dianne@earthlink.net
whether communicating by fax or email doesn't make much difference. Most times in fact, a fax will receive quicker attention since the dealer brass don't like the average guy there surfing the net.
The spec for the vehicle has to be specific. Fortunately the Land Cruiser has a narrow option band, even with the "port" and dealer installed options.
What's in this for the dealer? A deal they would not otherwise transact, however thin it may be. As a buyer, part of your job is to sell the dealer on this idea.
Don't waste a lot of time with the ones that want to substitute their rationalizations for your buying intent.
If they don't like your proposition, they don't have to respond. Visit to the dealer should only come about when the price is agreed and to verify the condition of your purchase.
Go to the Toyota web site and you can get all the dealers in a specific state, or near a specific zip code.
Remember, the LC is pretty much a commodity item in that the theme varies very little.
Having been in sales for a long time, I've had the opportunity to observe skilled buyers.
As such, your job is to convince the dealer of the merits of doing business your way. It goes against the grain of the control mentality these dealers have and imbue their salespeople with.
You may have a love affair with an LC, but paying any more than you have to won't make it return your love.
It's your money, look for someone who will transact a deal on your terms. Believe me, it can be and is done.
Additionally, anyone that has received a case number related to this issue, please post that case number herein. If we work togethor I am confident we can get this situation resolved to our satisfaction.
Last week, I had a customer buying a Tundra. During the test drive, he asked me about the vibration issue on the Tundra. I told him that affected a small number of initial production vehicles and this one should not be affected. During the ride, he noticed a distinct vibration. I was in the truck with him and couldn't feel a thing. He attributed it to what he had read on the Internet. After driving another truck (which I also didn't feel a vibration in) he pronounced the second one trouble free. The power of suggestion was responsible for his perception in the first one. That is all I was getting at, not that you made anything up. Tempest in a teapot.
Well, soem of you may recall that we were briefly trying to sell our 1998 TLC. However, after test driving virtually everything out there, we concluded that we already owned one of the finest SUV's on the planet. However, the kids wanted something "new", so I went a little overboard and installed an Alpine video and navigation system. I replaced the stock head unit and amplifier and added an Alpine IVA-C800 head unit immediately below an Alpine 5205 DVD in the factory "double DIN" location. I placed a Crossfire amp under the passenger seat and the Alpine NVE-N851A navigation unit was located in the right rear trim panel. I mounted an Audiovox 6.8" TV tuner and monitor overhead for the rear passengers. An inverter was mounted under the center console with an outlet and RCA jacks on the back of the console. Now the kids can play games from there Nintendo or Playstation.
The Audiovox comes with IR headphones so, if desired, the kids can watch the rear monitor with headphones while front seat passengers can watch/listen to a different source.
Alpine's NAV unit is pretty slick. Alpine is the OEM supplier for Toyota, Lexus, Acura and several others. The N851A is DVD based with full voice guidance. The voice is mixed into the audio so you can be listening to your favorite music source (or DVD) and the voice guidance will come on to remind you of the next turn, etc.
I put a few pics on my web site at http://www.pacificnet.net/~kpond/98tlcnav.jpg
I think our TLC is now good for at least another 3 years!
Unrelated to your fine work, I noticed that your LC has a rear heater control on the backside of the center console. I've also seen this pictured in the '99,'00,'01 LC sales brochures. Is this an option that was actually available on '99 and '00? I've always been "stumped" by this since I've never actually seen this in a LC or on an options list. Is this a regional thing?
Thanks for all the inputs
Peter
peter_sung@hotmail.com
For fj80 starting problems, check the EFI relay or the neutral start safety switch. The contacts may be corroded. The EFI relay is a design flaw. You can keep replacing them or install a larger wire to the EFI relay.
You can put in later model seatbelts from a fj62 into an '87 fj60, but it's not just bolt in. The bottom mount is present, but the top mount needs a nut behind the pillar. Consider getting the fj62 rear seat, too, as it should have the head rests.
A '96 TLC is a fine vehicle, but it will ride differently from the 100 due to live front axle vs. IFS. The motor is an inline 6 BTW, not V6. I'm happy with it, but you might like the V8 better. I would test drive a 100 for a comparison, but you will probably pay a $20K differential in price between the 2 rigs.
I am a bit confused in that the 87 comes with a should belt harness set up, upfront. So if you have only lap belts the answer is yes. The rear belts are lap belts however.
But, you did a terrific job upgrading your own '98!