So, you're headed out for a night on the town with 20 of your friends. It looks like it will be a multi-vehicle night, but wait. Ford has an answer. I thought you might get a kick out of this photo:
Well, Valhala, if Ford is so much better (and in some cases it is), why does my Ram have honest numbers on the auxiliary gauges, while Ford's are as useless as an idiot light since they read "NORMAL" all the way to the redline? Does Ford believe that truck owners are that dumb that they can't decipher a numbered gauge other than speed (of engine or vehicle)?
Try fueling your your Powerstroke at the diesel truck pumps...near impossible. You have to use the auto diesel pump. The Dodge sucks it down with the big nozzle on auto feed. Shuts off right at the top.
Never heard that about the diesel pumps. I've heard the auto diesel is inferior. Another design flaw by Ford.
Ok, when it comes to the idiot guages that have been mentioned periodical, have you ever heard of someone who had problems because they weren't able to accurately diagnose a problem because of inferior guages? I'm going to guess that the guages move the same as the Dodge, but they don't provide a point of reference. In other words, they are either normal or in the red. However, that doesn't mean they don't move within the normal range. I've got to guess that everybody knows where the normal setting is for each guage of their truck. If it's not in that same spot, does it really matter what the reading is? Isn't it just a matter of knowing that it is not where it should be so I should check it out? I ask this question sincerely, since I never had any problems that would impact my truck when I owned it.
you don't need honest numbers unless you are in some sort of high perf. auto. the need to know the exact temp. or other numbers is not needed. all you need to know is when the needle is getting closer to the red. Yes i'll admit to having a slight biased opinion but its foundation is based on facts. ford trucks are plane and simple more reliable. I have done numerous road load data and reliability tests on the fords, dodges, and Gm's. the dodge trucks look great on paper but after doing some serious long term driving they fall behind. the quality on dodge is greatly lacking. and the power stroke is a far better engine than the cummings. both are good but the power stroke can't be touched. the dodge V10 may make more hp but only by 10. but on the other side of the coin the GM motors are more powerful that fords or dodges(V8's). you see far more ford trucks with a lot of miles on the road that rams. i think that if dodge can bring up their quality standard ford and GM are going to have to be on their toes to keep their market share.
I believe the difference between the V-10 engines is 25 hp and 40 lb-ft of torque. Isn't it 275/410 and 300/450? I agree with you on the overall quality of the Ford compared to the Dodge, but my opinion is certainly bias.
I've always had problems with my '93 cutting off. I generally fuel with the nozzel 1/2 way out of the tank. Once it has 2-3 gallons in there, it will fill just fine the rest of the way. It has something to do with the way diesel fuel foams so much when it hits the rather sharply curved fill tube.
I'm hoping that this is something that Ford has corrected in the '99s ... anyone know?
BTW, this happens at both car and truck pumps. Some truck pumps will work perfectly, some are a real pain. The auto ones are more consistent -- just slightly bad. You get used to it, though.
yes the ford 10 makes 275/410. that engine is very under powered. i have spoken with SVE engrs. and they said that is is cap. of around 350hp with just turning a few wrenchs. and i have just found out that for the next model year the 5.4L ford is most likely going to have 260hp. much better but still not at its potential. the new '99lightnings 5.4L will have 330hp. granted its supercharged but the boost pressure is very small compared to what it is cap. of making. they had to de-tune it because the trans. and torque converter are undersized to handle that kinda power. i seen estimates on it making in excess of 400 also with just turning some wrenches. just need a 9" ford rear end and a 4.10 gear +tranny mods. to handle the hp.
How is a 275hp/410 lb.ft engine underpowered? Maybe in comparison to the Dodge V-10, but it also appears to get better gas mileage. It's even firing and supposedly a tad smoother. It seems a 275/410 will provide plenty of power for most uses. If it was underpowered for the Superduty, I suspect it would get worse gas mileage since it would have to work harder to move the truck. The 5.4L seems to have this problem since it appears to get close to the same mpg as the V-10 without the benefit of the extra power.
Certainly a 275/410 is more useful in a pickup than a 300/350 (hp/torque combo). Once your needs exceed the 410-450 torque range, you probably need to move up to a diesel, rather than looking for more power from a gas engine. What is the hp in the diesel? Maybe 235? But the torque is 500. Pickups need torque more than hp for real work. The hp will play a bigger role for those who want a pickup for reasons other than work, hauling, or towing. I have no complaints about buying a pickup for those reasons, but when you need to do work, you need torque more than hp.
Remember, torque is the ability to do work (such as accelerating a vehicle), horsepower is the ability to do work over time (such as pushing a heavy object through air at a high speed). Generally (and as an oversimplification), high torque results in quick acceleration, higher horsepower results in a better top speed.
Of course, there are other things to consider, but a nice high-torque motor should prove more 'entertaining' in stop-light races than a high horsepower / low torque one would. This is why, if you watch drag races, the low-revving torquey big blocks will get the hole shot, and move ahead quickly, while the high-horsepower lower-torque smallblocks will catch up at speed.
Yes, this is a gross oversimplification. No, I don't care to hear about your high-torque smallblock or high-horse bigblock. I'm sure they're wonderful.
The low torque rating on the chevy motor is odd. You'll also notice that they never race it against its real competitors, the Ford and Dodge V10s. Hmm... You think their lower-hp engines might be faster?
Now, some people will be wondering why the diesel trucks aren't faster than the gas ones, if my explanation is correct. First, I'm not sure that with the new 500lb-ft powerstroke that they're not. Performance numbers anyone? Generally a gas motor will be faster because they rev higher -- if they're making 400 lbft at the top of first gear, this may be more than 450 lbft at the bottom of second if the diesel has to shift. Effective torque = engine torque * trans. gear reduction * rear end.
I looked at the torque graphs for the powerstroke and the V10, though -- it seems that the new diesel will put out more total torque at most given speeds (assuming lowest possible gear, a valid assumption at full throttle) then the V10, even without the benefit of being in lower gears.
And Valhala: Any engine is capable of being modified to inordinate capacities. What counts in the real world is the combination of torque (for towing and acceleration), horsepower (for moving a heavy wind-resistant trailer comfortably), reliability, and fuel economy. Anyone who wants more power (possibly at the expense of reliability) should be looking into things like the gale banks powerpack. 0-60 in under 10 seconds in an F250 crew cab diesel... not too shabby.
Hi all, I have been pondering about what my next truck will be. I am trying to sell my '93 toyota for several reasons, one of which is it is a bit small for a 6'3" person. Its a good truck overall, but I need something bigger. Everywhere I look for reviews seems to point to Fords. I am thinking of the F-150 XL with the V-8, as I may be towing, and it must have A/C and be a supercab.
After looking through Edmond's site, It appears that a good price would be just a couple of hundred bucks over $20,000. Am I right for the options I want and the XL package? Or did I miscalculate? Has anyone been able to get a similar deal?
I looked at a local dealer (who I will not buy from) and the MSRP was more that what edmunds had said, but I think the dealer inflated a few of the options a bit.
Stanford, Dodge has a vent tube that comes from the tank and joins in at the top of the filler tube. I think thats what makes the difference. On the ford gauges, I just always remembered the normal position by what letter it was on, or between in the word "normal" on the gauge...
the torque rating is not low on the chevy 6.0. its about as expected. torque is hard to get without increasing displacement. look how fords torque increases from the 5.4 to the 6.8. look how chevy's torque increased from the 350 to the 454. look how dodges' torque increases from the 360 to the v10. they are all VERY similar. you don't see any 450 ftlb 4.0liters do you. (exception, some porsches and other exotic cars get numbers like that, but thats different ball game).
i explained in the dodge vs ford vs chevy post how the 6.0 is NOT competing with the 6.8 or the 8.0.
and by the way they didn't race the 6.0 engine, they raced the 5.3 versus the ford 5.4 and the dodge 360. just think what the 6.0 would do to them.
FASTER PERFORMANCE During the acceleration portion of testing procedures (zero to 80), a Vortec 6000-equipped Silverado beat a comparably equipped 1998 Dodge Ram and a 1998 Ford F-150 full-size pickup by about two seconds.
According to the 'sneak preview' they did on TV, they were racing 'the companies biggest V8s'.
point is the, 6.0 is the midlevel v8 replacing the 350. the fact that there are going to be TWO smaller v8s instead of one has people thinking that it is the last engine chevy will make. thats not the case.
That is typical of Chevy--having too much. They don't need to offer four v-8s. Waste of production as I see it. I'm hoping Ford doesn't get caught up in the HP and engine game. Sticking to quality built trucks that are reliable is the key to any truck. Gee, how else could anyone explain why Ford outsells a larger company with more dealers for 15 straight years.
The numbers don't lie. ford sells more trucks than anyone. and stanford i don't need any lessons about power, hp, and torque. i already work at ford testing these engines on a daily basis. i have them on the proving grounds and should know what they need and don't need for daily driving and heavy word/hauling. plain and simple for the size of the V10 it should have some more power.
#64 - stanford: I suggest that the fuel tank filling problem is related (maybe not the main cause) to the rate of flow from the nozzle. My wifes Sable has (imho) a severe burping problem that seems directly related to the varying flow rates of different gas pumps. I have to listen to the pitch of the fuel sounds to keep from getting a splash back. Must be the foaming (even in gasoline) that someone else mentioned later.
Did I understand correctly that the nozzle size is different between the "truck" diesel and "auto" diesel pumps? And the "auto" nozzle is what fits a Ford filler tube easily? How difficult is this to modify?
akjbmw, The nozzle on the truck diesel pumps at truck stops are much larger in diameter, and have a much faster flow rate than the auto diesel pumps. The larger nozzle will fit the Ford filler tube, but it won't take the flow rate. It will keep shutting off, and takes forever to fill the tanks. The auto shut-off I spoke of is when you squeeze the handle and set the little tab so the nozzle will keep flowing by itself, while you clean the windshield, check the oil, ect, then shuts off when the tank is full. The dodge has a vent tube that goes from the tank to the top of the filler tube. This keeps it from burping and shutting the nozzle off before the tank is full.
Like I said, the '99 Fords have the vent tube also. I've found that my tanks can take full flow from some truck stops (80% or so) and have trouble at others. The same applies at regular stations, too -- sometimes they won't take fuel evenly from slow car pumps. Go figure.
Quick ?? I'll be pulling a 5th wheel, 24-25ft long, dry wgt. at 6100# and suggested full capacity at 7800#. I currently have an F250, V-10, CC, 4x4 with Ltd. Slp. on order---but not too late to change---am I over-doing it with the V-10, or will the V-10 give us the capability to possibly grow into a larger 5th wheel. Currently, the f250 is 3.73. 4.30 rear is also available with the V-10. We currently get out camping approx. 12-15 times, but that should increase as time goes on. I would certainly appreciate your input since the dealership is, for the most part, interested in selling a unit, and since we can only rely on charts that stipulate the weight capacity for both the F250- and our new Rv, I just thought that you may have addition input into the decision making process. Thanks, JB
I definitely would go for the V-10 over the 5.4 if you're getting out 12-15 times per year, with the potential for more outings and a bigger trailer in the future. As mentioned in the "gas mileage" topic, it sounds like the 5.4 and 6.8 get pretty similar mpg empty. The V-10 will almost certainly get better gas mileage when pulling your trailer. The diesel will outperform both of them in mpg and towing power, however, the V-10 will get the job done fine.
The axle ratios will be a trade-off. If you go with the 3.73, you should get better mpg when not towing. The 4.30 will likely get you a little better gas mileage when towing and it will give you more power when towing in mountainous areas. The 4.30 will also have a little less top end speed. Chances are that the 3.73 will be fine for you, but you might want to see if you can test drive a truck with the 4.30, so you can feel some of the difference.
July sales went up as expected for Ford and Dodge in full size trucks. Ford for the month was up 25% from July 1997, Dodge was up 21%. Multiplying the months out, Ford is on pace for nearly a million trucks a year (81,133 in Jul 98), and Dodge is pacing at over 410K (34,517). Both would be model records if the pace held. GM sales hit the streets tomorrow and are expected to heavily reflect the strike.
July Chevy C/K sales came in at 33,886, down over 15% from July 97, and GMC Sierra sales were just 9842, down almost 27%. Dodge outsold Chevy for the first time ever.
The Dodge V-10 has more power (300hp/450 torque compared to 275hp/410 torque). The Ford V-10 appears to get better gas mileage. Both appear to be good engines, yet both are very different engines. I haven't heard of any call backs on the Ford V-10s. Although it's new in the pickups, Ford has been using it in their Econoline vans, so it's not an untested engine.
By the way, it's the opposite with the diesels. The Ford is more powerful and the Dodge gets better mpg.
I've had my 1999 F-250 ford SC 4X4 lariat V-10 for about three weeks now and am very pleased with it. Coming from a 97 f-150 with the 4.6 was quite a change. The V-10 is a very smooth running motor. Seemed like the 4.6 was always shifting in and out of overdrive. The V-10 has to come on a REAL steep hill to shift down. I'm getting 14-15 mpg hiway which is not much worse than the 4.6. There is an interesting article in the Sept. Motor Trend on the Dodge and Ford V-10's. The smaller Ford V-10 holds its own against the Dodge 0-40 then just edges it out 0-60 and in the quarter mile. Towing the Ford did even better. I'm sure glad I spent that $285 more for the V-10.
it was an interesting article. i think it showed that your actual torque curve is more important than just the actual torque and horsepower numbers themselves.
It amazes me when people compare the styling of the SD to the Ram. Apart from the slight hood bulge, there really isn't that much in common. If you want to pick nits, Dodge simply copied the 1948 Ford pickup.
Sit a Dodge Ram 2500 next to a 99 F-250 Superduty and a 97 F-250 and then have someone tell you which two trucks are related. There is no doubt the two Fords are from the same family.
From the front view, the biggest change for the Ford from 1997 to 1999 was a larger front bumper and the slight bulge in the hood resulting in a larger grille. From the side, the biggest difference is the sloping front window and the lowered side windows for better mirror visibility.
The front of the Dodge is still unique. Whereas the bulge in the Ford hood is subtle, the Dodge bulge in the Dodge hood is intentionally more dramatic. The drop from the middle of the hood to the headlights is significant. The headlights are smaller and lower to the ground, although I'm sure they still emit a similar amount of light.
When sitting side by side where people are able to accurately compare the trucks, nobody will claim that the Superduty looks anything like the Dodge Ram.
i can tell the difference between a monkey and an orangutan when they're sitting on my lap, but when their both swingin' thru the trees, i'm not to sure.
Valhala, If you please, tell us what simple wrenching can be done to a Ford V10 to increase the needed Horsepower/Torque? I am seriously interested... I rebuild aircraft engines and considering the technoloy involved in a V10 vs the 50 years old technology I work with,....I'm interested! Respectfully Maydaytoy
Might as well call this Dodge vs. Dodge. If Ford sees a style they like in a Chevy or a Dodge, they will surely copy that into their next generation of truck design. Ford saw that the Dodge Ram was selling like hotcakes and said....'gimme some of that!!' So they took the front grillwork and body style from the Ram used in in their newer trucks. I hate unoriginality....it shows a lack of effort on Ford's part.
Er, that's quite an interesting point. Take a look at the 1948 Ford pickup -- looks a lot like Dodge copied it for their new styling and Ford just had a 'retro' look. Then again, the new Ford SDs and the Dodges really look nothing like one another. Put a new Ford between an older Ford and a new Dodge -- it looks a lot more like the Ford.
The grillework looks alike? I think you probably me that Ford raised the hood. I'll concede that Dodge had the center of the hood higher than the headlights on their latest truck before Ford did it with the Superduty. However, the grillwork, headlights and bumpers don't share any resemblence. Other than the raised hood, there is no resemblence.
Ditto what stanford said about putting a 97 Ford, a 98 Dodge and a 99 Superduty side by side. There is no doubt which two trucks are related. Ford and Dodge trucks both have their strong points. However, they are very different trucks in every aspect from engines to styling to suspension.
If a customer went out to buy a new Ram because they liked how the front of the truck looked then they could buy the Ford also because they look the same. That is what I am saying, I realize they have their differences, but if you like the nose of a Ram, then you will like the nose of the new Ford. That is what Ford wanted. They wanted those customers that liked the new nose on the Dodge and decided to change it slightly and use it themselves.
IM INTERESTED IN BUYING A NEW DODGE OR FORD . I DO A LOT OF OFF ROAD DRIVING SOME IN RUFF ROCKY TERRAIN. I NEED THE ADVICE FROM OWNERS ON WHAT THEY FEEL IS THE BETTER OFF ROAD TRUCK. I WOULD PREFER THE 16" WHEELS FOR ADDED GROUND CLEARANCE. WHICH IS THE HARDY OFF ROAD TRUCK?
If you are going to get heavy into 4X4 you will need to modify any truck, jeep or sportute with both clearance enhancements and locking axles. Any stock 4x4 truck will do nicely over most reasonable terrain, but definetly get a limited slip rear end for at least three wheel drive in loose conditions.
I have read a lot about the Ram owners and how happy they are with their Cummings diesel. Wonder how they will feel when they find out that Ford owns Cummings.
Comments
www.abol.com/users/jlester/psdlimo.htm
Well, Valhala, if Ford is so much better (and in some cases it is), why does my Ram have honest numbers on the auxiliary gauges, while Ford's are as useless as an idiot light since they read "NORMAL" all the way to the redline? Does Ford believe that truck owners are that dumb that they can't decipher a numbered gauge other than speed (of engine or vehicle)?
Ok, when it comes to the idiot guages that have been mentioned periodical, have you ever heard of someone who had problems because they weren't able to accurately diagnose a problem because of inferior guages? I'm going to guess that the guages move the same as the Dodge, but they don't provide a point of reference. In other words, they are either normal or in the red. However, that doesn't mean they don't move within the normal range. I've got to guess that everybody knows where the normal setting is for each guage of their truck. If it's not in that same spot, does it really matter what the reading is? Isn't it just a matter of knowing that it is not where it should be so I should check it out? I ask this question sincerely, since I never had any problems that would impact my truck when I owned it.
i think that if dodge can bring up their quality standard ford and GM are going to have to be on their toes to keep their market share.
I'm hoping that this is something that Ford has corrected in the '99s ... anyone know?
BTW, this happens at both car and truck pumps. Some truck pumps will work perfectly, some are a real pain. The auto ones are more consistent -- just slightly bad. You get used to it, though.
5.4L will have 330hp. granted its supercharged but the boost pressure is very small compared to what it is cap. of making. they had to de-tune it because the trans. and torque converter are undersized to handle that kinda power. i seen estimates on it making in excess of 400 also with just turning some wrenches. just need a 9" ford rear end and a 4.10 gear +tranny mods. to handle the hp.
Certainly a 275/410 is more useful in a pickup than a 300/350 (hp/torque combo). Once your needs exceed the 410-450 torque range, you probably need to move up to a diesel, rather than looking for more power from a gas engine. What is the hp in the diesel? Maybe 235? But the torque is 500. Pickups need torque more than hp for real work. The hp will play a bigger role for those who want a pickup for reasons other than work, hauling, or towing. I have no complaints about buying a pickup for those reasons, but when you need to do work, you need torque more than hp.
Of course, there are other things to consider, but a nice high-torque motor should prove more 'entertaining' in stop-light races than a high horsepower / low torque one would. This is why, if you watch drag races, the low-revving torquey big blocks will get the hole shot, and move ahead quickly, while the high-horsepower lower-torque smallblocks will catch up at speed.
Yes, this is a gross oversimplification. No, I don't care to hear about your high-torque smallblock or high-horse bigblock. I'm sure they're wonderful.
The low torque rating on the chevy motor is odd. You'll also notice that they never race it against its real competitors, the Ford and Dodge V10s. Hmm... You think their lower-hp engines might be faster?
Now, some people will be wondering why the diesel trucks aren't faster than the gas ones, if my explanation is correct. First, I'm not sure that with the new 500lb-ft powerstroke that they're not. Performance numbers anyone? Generally a gas motor will be faster because they rev higher -- if they're making 400 lbft at the top of first gear, this may be more than 450 lbft at the bottom of second if the diesel has to shift. Effective torque = engine torque * trans. gear reduction * rear end.
I looked at the torque graphs for the powerstroke and the V10, though -- it seems that the new diesel will put out more total torque at most given speeds (assuming lowest possible gear, a valid assumption at full throttle) then the V10, even without the benefit of being in lower gears.
And Valhala: Any engine is capable of being modified to inordinate capacities. What counts in the real world is the combination of torque (for towing and acceleration), horsepower (for moving a heavy wind-resistant trailer comfortably), reliability, and fuel economy. Anyone who wants more power (possibly at the expense of reliability) should be looking into things like the gale banks powerpack. 0-60 in under 10 seconds in an F250 crew cab diesel... not too shabby.
After looking through Edmond's site, It appears that a good price would be just a couple of hundred bucks over $20,000. Am I right for the options I want and the XL package? Or did I miscalculate? Has anyone been able to get a similar deal?
I looked at a local dealer (who I will not buy from) and the MSRP was more that what edmunds had said, but I think the dealer inflated a few of the options a bit.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
On the ford gauges, I just always remembered the normal position by what letter it was on, or between in the word "normal" on the gauge...
the torque rating is not low on the chevy 6.0. its about as expected. torque is hard to get without increasing displacement. look how fords torque increases from the 5.4 to the 6.8. look how chevy's torque increased from the 350 to the 454. look how dodges' torque increases from the 360 to the v10. they are all VERY similar. you don't see any 450 ftlb 4.0liters do you. (exception, some porsches and other exotic cars get numbers like that, but thats different ball game).
i explained in the dodge vs ford vs chevy post how the 6.0 is NOT competing with the 6.8 or the 8.0.
and by the way they didn't race the 6.0 engine, they raced the 5.3 versus the ford 5.4 and the dodge 360. just think what the 6.0 would do to them.
FASTER PERFORMANCE
During the acceleration portion of testing
procedures (zero to 80), a Vortec
6000-equipped Silverado beat a comparably
equipped 1998 Dodge Ram and a
1998 Ford F-150 full-size pickup by about
two seconds.
According to the 'sneak preview' they did on TV, they were racing 'the companies biggest V8s'.
Chevrolet.COM
point is the, 6.0 is the midlevel v8 replacing the 350. the fact that there are going to be TWO smaller v8s instead of one has people thinking that it is the last engine chevy will make. thats not the case.
Gee, how else could anyone explain why Ford outsells a larger company with more dealers for 15 straight years.
Did I understand correctly that the nozzle size is different between the "truck" diesel and "auto" diesel pumps? And the "auto" nozzle is what fits a Ford filler tube easily? How difficult is this to modify?
The auto shut-off I spoke of is when you squeeze the handle and set the little tab so the nozzle will keep flowing by itself, while you clean the windshield, check the oil, ect, then shuts off when the tank is full.
The dodge has a vent tube that goes from the tank to the top of the filler tube. This keeps it from burping and shutting the nozzle off before the tank is full.
the f250 is 3.73. 4.30 rear is also available with the V-10. We currently get out camping approx.
12-15 times, but that should increase as time goes on. I would certainly appreciate your input since the dealership is, for the most part, interested in selling a unit, and since we can only rely on charts that stipulate the weight capacity for both the F250- and our new Rv, I just thought that you may have addition input into the decision making process. Thanks, JB
The axle ratios will be a trade-off. If you go with the 3.73, you should get better mpg when not towing. The 4.30 will likely get you a little better gas mileage when towing and it will give you more power when towing in mountainous areas. The 4.30 will also have a little less top end speed. Chances are that the 3.73 will be fine for you, but you might want to see if you can test drive a truck with the 4.30, so you can feel some of the difference.
And have you heard any call backs on Ford's v-10?
By the way, it's the opposite with the diesels. The Ford is more powerful and the Dodge gets better mpg.
There is an interesting article in the Sept. Motor Trend on the Dodge and Ford V-10's. The smaller Ford V-10 holds its own against the Dodge 0-40 then just edges it out 0-60 and in the quarter mile. Towing the Ford did even better.
I'm sure glad I spent that $285 more for the V-10.
From the front view, the biggest change for the Ford from 1997 to 1999 was a larger front bumper and the slight bulge in the hood resulting in a larger grille. From the side, the biggest difference is the sloping front window and the lowered side windows for better mirror visibility.
The front of the Dodge is still unique. Whereas the bulge in the Ford hood is subtle, the Dodge bulge in the Dodge hood is intentionally more dramatic. The drop from the middle of the hood to the headlights is significant. The headlights are smaller and lower to the ground, although I'm sure they still emit a similar amount of light.
When sitting side by side where people are able to accurately compare the trucks, nobody will claim that the Superduty looks anything like the Dodge Ram.
If you please, tell us what simple wrenching can be done to a Ford V10 to increase the needed Horsepower/Torque? I am seriously interested...
I rebuild aircraft engines and considering the technoloy involved in a V10 vs the 50 years old technology I work with,....I'm interested!
Respectfully
Maydaytoy
Malibu1
Ditto what stanford said about putting a 97 Ford, a 98 Dodge and a 99 Superduty side by side. There is no doubt which two trucks are related. Ford and Dodge trucks both have their strong points. However, they are very different trucks in every aspect from engines to styling to suspension.
Malibu1
Madcow