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FORD VS DODGE
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Comments
David
Go for the diesel and 6 speed transmission.Dodge or Ford. It's a winning combination. A gas engine may have more horsepower but a diesel has more torque and at a lower RPM and this is what is needed to haul a heavy load. The turbocharged diesel will also do better at high altitudes in the mountains.The extra cost of the diesel is well worth it and in time will pay for itself in longer life to overhall and 30% better fuel mileage. Another plus is when fueling up when hooked to your trailer. You can use the big truck fuel islands and avoid the crowded gas islands that aren't built for large truck trailer combinations. My rig is a 1996 Dodge 3500 4x4 Cummins with 5 speed and 4:10 axles and a 32foot trailer with a GCW of 17500 lb. There are very few hills on the interstates that can't be pulled in overdrive at the posted speed limit. Has 44000 miles on it. 30000 miles of which were towing and have had no problems.
Will I be sorry I have the auto? Will it hold up? I intend to keep the truck for a few hundred thousand, the F-350 powerstrokes last us over 300K so I'm hoping the Dodge will too. Am I crazy, should I stay with Ford?
Here are some things to consider when choosing between an automatic and manual transmission. Automatics cost more,require more service,rob power from your engine and add extra heat to your cooling system. Also they don't like the combination of low RPM and high torque. The new 6 speed manuals on the other hand offer good gear spacing to keep your engine on the torque band and much better control of your truck. Down hill hold back is much better which is important when under heavy load. I know there are many who would disagree but for me there is only one choice. The manual preferably the 6 speed. As for the choice between the Ford and the Dodge it's a toss-up. Except For my present Dodge Cummins C/C 3500 i have owned Ford pickups for the past 38 years. The only reason i bought the Dodge is that in 1996 Ford didn't make an F350 super cab dual wheel 4x4. So far at 44000 miles i am happy with the Dodge. Have had no problems. I do think i like the Cummins a little better than the Navastar but they are both excellent engines. My biggest complaint with the Dodge is that it dosen't have lock out hubs on the front wheels.
I guess my question to you is if you are happy with Ford then I am a firm believer in staying with what you know works when you are talking this much money. I personally think BOTH are wonderful trucks. As far as auto vs manual, if you are pulling heavy loads I would go manual. If not the auto will be fine as long as you take care of the maintenance. Our 96 Dodge has an auto and it is fine and I have a two friends that have auto Dodge's as well and they have been fine. Our 98 Dodge has the 5 speed because I knew it would be towing more than the 96. I did not regret my choice.
David
As for the comment that autos are more expensive -- they can also be rebuilt (if necessary) for around the cost of a heavy duty clutch replacement. I don't think that cost-savings is that good an argument any more.
ZF does make heavy duty automatics; in fact, they are Allison's leading competitor, and at one point had put up an offer to buy Allison from GM. Does anyone think Ford may be scrambling for a 6 speed automatic now - the 6R120 perhaps?
for emissions, a Chevy v10 would in all likelyhood be built off of the 5.3 platform, to give a 6.7~6.8.
But are they building a v10? or is it another big v8? I would bet on the samller bore of the v10. any rumors anyone wants to share?
Thanks
Mike
lovtlc@gte.net
The SD line is also very reasonably priced. You can get an XLT 2WD reg. cab fairly nicely loaded with the V10, hitch, etc for under $20,500.
Mike
My mind was made on the purchase of a 1500 I liked what I test drove and how it looks and handles. But I don't want to look at it on a lift and handling a large bill. Any help would be appreciated.
before you can accept a blanket statement like that, it's important to get the facts. What were those trucks in the shop for? How are they dribven? Did other areas seem abused as well? Trucks are only in the shop because they're in need of repair - obviously there are thousands more that AREN'T in the shop
Thanks for the input. I realize that an abused truck would be more pron to larger repairs, but I am not buying a truck to go to church in either. I guess I am very gun shy, my blazer killed me with repairs that should never happen 3 rears , 3 tranies the goes on and that isn't on an abused truck either.
thanks again.
boggle
Just about everybody gets a truck capable of making a refreshing summer drink (aka lemonade). I had an F150 that had more brake jobs than oil changes in three years, along ith two steering jobs (the second resulting in complete replacement of the box because I literally could not turn left). While seeing a truck in a shop may give you the willies, proper maintenance prevents everything except a true failure. I heard all the awful stories about the Cummins engine eating Chrysler automatics for lunch, but I bought that combo anyway. And I followed the heavy-duty maintenance sxchedule. And it's been flawless in 45,000 miles so far. Even if you drive hard, taking the time to keep things clean, lubed, and adjusted goes a long way.
I too use my truck really hard, 5.9L gas 4x4, plow truck, but I also take really really good care of it. I do oil changs every 5000km, changed the tranny fluid, engine coolant, air filter every 5000Km, and rust proof it every year, indercoat it evrey year, and use high heat piant and treat the whole exaust system every 6months. Also I paint all suspension parts, and driveline parts to keep that ugly orange rust away. The truck is a 94' but you could never tell. I have people telling me constantly when did I buy the new truck, and when I tell them 5 and half years ago, they can't beleive it's that old.
I have read most of the responses in this section, but was surprised to not hear anything about the issues which my wife and I felt were major in our search between Dodge Ram and Ford SD 3/4 Ton vehicles equipped with diesels. We currently own a 94 Dodge Ram 4x4, but we both liked the new SD's and really are giving them a good looking over. They both are fine trucks, no doubt. Here is our issues with Ford SD.
> Noise. Driving the Ram 2500 SLT and the Ford SD XLT with diesels, the Ford was very loud in comparison. We found that Dodge includes an extra insulation package with the Cummins, so this is probably why.
> Rust Protection. We live in the NorthEast where they LOVE to salt the roads in the winter. We initially liked the double-dipped total galvinizing on the Dodge, and I was surprised to find that Ford didn't offer this additional protection. This salt eats unprotected metal.
> Rear seat room. This was a joke on the Ford SD.
Both vehicles we are looking at are quad-cabs. I am 5'10", my wife 5'8", and with my wife in the front of the SD, there was no way I could sit forward on the skimpy rear "seat", as they call it. The Dodge can seat 4 normal sized men with no problems, and we found several Dodge business people who agree and take their employees to the work site. They also agree they couldn't do the same in the SD.
We love Ford's reputation for reliability, I have owned all three makes. We wished Dodge offered 4 wheel disc. Had a lot of problems with the Dodge, now at 70k miles. All the issues seem to have been resolved, but the last 1-1/2 years have seen it in the shop more often than not. If Ford's rear seat in the Quad-Cab were roomier and more comfortable, my wife would probably opt for the Ford.
Let me know some of your opinions in these areas, we won't order or purchase for 2- 3 months yet, we continue to look and listen.
I think the Ram/Cummins is fine, and the Super Duty too. But keep in mind, if rear seat room is a big issue, Ford offers a crew cab that Dodge does not. But if you want it to fit in a garage, even the Ford without the crew cab may not fit, for the reason that it is about 79-80 inches tall, too high it seems for some garages, and some 5th wheels I'm told.
I recently talked to the head of the Body Shops for a very large collision firm with many outlets in our city, and he says his men report that the metal framework on the interior of the Ford SD is "chinsy", to quote them, where the Ram has a lot more metal for support, and it appears to be of heavier guage.
Well, boiled down, we have decided to stay with the Ram, now we only are deciding between the 1 ton duallie and the 3/4 ton with the short box.
Regardless, they will be Cummins powered. Thankyou for your input. It reflects our own.
I believe I only made one short post in this long topic. And I don't see where I was "pushing" anything, because if I was, I tell you to ride with your Chevy Bowtie on so you can look good like me!
I'm not the only one having this problem. However, there are some that do not have this problem and love the truck. I would like to hear from you - good or bad. Thanks
Your dealer is absolutely right. There is nothing wrong with your truck. You have to remember, the Super Duty rigs are (by law) medium duty trucks. You will never get the handling of even a Toyota Corolla with a crew cab of any manufacturer. What kind of handling did you expect from a truck 20+ feet long and around 7000 pounds in weight? You just can't throw a truck like this around the road like you would a sports sedan - especially when you're dealing with rigid suspensions, 80 psi tires, and an extremely high center-of-gravity. My Ram 3500 4x4 Club Cab is fairly skitterish on anything but fresh blacktop, but that's how it is supposed to be - it's a truck.
Personally, truck manufacturers would be doing the public a great service by refraining from using the term "car-like" in any of their literature. There is absolutely nothing car-like about a Ford Ranger, let alone an F350 Crew Cab.
Drove my buddies F350SD CC lwb srw '99 4x4 lariat for couple of hundred miles. It handled perfect.
My apologies for the previous tone
I do agree that Ford did try to soften up the Super Duty line (which probably was a mistake to us real truckers - sales are still the bottom line).
If that TSB says there is a handling problem with all 4 lines, that would have to be for 4x4s, because the 2wd trucks all have unique front suspensions. The solid front axle is the only common factor.
Wish I had Fords full 4 door, but the quad cab seems to do OK most the time....since Im driving. I also bought a 300M the same month, and prefer to drive the Ram...but am disapointed in "gas" milage :-( Had expected better.
bushpilot
Sounds like you have a unique problem with handling/steering. If Ford has a TSB on it, than they are working on a fix.
I own a F250 SD 4X4 and it handles perfectly. Good luck.
Thanks
Jerryg
My situation...
I live in a large city in Ohio and 70% of my driving will be city driving (unloaded). Last year I drove a total of 18K miles. I tow a 7000# boat in the summer almost every weekend and mostly to out-of-state lakes through very mountainous regions (KY, WV, TN). I'm currently using a Ford Bronco that is starting to show the wear and tear from the years of mountainous towing. Plus, I would like more towing power than the Bronco can give me because I'd like to run the a/c while towing.
I'm looking at either the Dodge Ram 2500 QuadCab or the Ford F-250 SuperCab Super Duty, with either 2WD or 4WD. The two powerplants I'm considering are the V10 or Diesel, both automatic. I'm sure both will have plenty of power to handle my towing towing needs. I know the Diesel will get much better mileage than the V10, but I figured the total cost would be about even over a 4 year period considering the Diesel is a 4K plus option. Whichever truck I go with, I would probably opt for the higher rear end gear ratio (3.54 and 3.73 respectively) and definitely limited slip (wet boat launch ramps).
Questions...
- Which powerplant would best suit my needs?
- Comfort/Quality of the two cabs?
- 2WD or 4WD?
- Axle ratio?
- I've read about Auto Trans and Brake problems
on the Dodge, any comments?
- Any problems current owners have had with these
trucks?
- Would a 1/2 ton truck with a V8 handle the
towing strain with a/c running?
- Any other comments or suggestions about what
would best suit my needs.
Thanks in advance...
Diesel is the best bet....and it won't take you four years to make-up that four k in gas cost. Since you ride with the AC on and the windows up the extra noise will not bother you.
Both can be nice....but sit in a loaded dodge, your mind will be made up.
4wd to help support the heavy diesel engine.
3.5 for flat towing and good gas. 4.1 for the big hills and a negative 10% on the gas.
The auto trans on the Dodge licks... but if you can wait tell Jan. you may be able to get the allison tran. + a cleaned uped diesel engine. Ford still working on a list.
Spend a few xtra bucks and get 3/4 ton. the 360 v8 is a nice engine..but still does lousy on the gas.
powerstroke and sold a jillion of em. If you want a real truck by a Cummins.
gas mileage. But my mileage is 14 to 16 around town empty and 18 to 22 on the open road empty. Loaded (3800lb trailer with 3 1200lb) 7400lb & get 11.5 to 13.5. It pulls great & have had no trouble. I have had several friends that have them ranging in mileage 20,000 to 300,000 & love them very much. I do worry about the auto. but it works great so far & know several dodge owners that have the cummins with auto & have had major problems. I can out pull the dodges & even the Dodge owners I know like the cummins but admit the ford out pulls the cummins on long hard pulls esp. the 24 valve. It has had problems producing the power they say it should have. I wont deny the cummins is a good engine but so is the power stroke. It is in a lot of delivery trucks & is in use an awfully lot. the cummins is primarily uswd as a marine engine.
F-250,4wd,v-10,tall rear. Why? I'd go with the taller gear since you realisticly won't really need it more than 6 weekends and most of the advantage comes from driving the truck empty around town. F-250? Purely subjective.
Coincidence!!! One of our trucks at my firm is a 91 F-250. The only difference is that ours has a lower rear-4.10. Only 125k here and still going strong.
I take back the taller theory. I think you corrected me perfectly on that point.