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Toyota Matrix

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    coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    The Matrix is scheduled to come out between February and March...April at the absolute latest. It might be launched simultaneously with the Corolla...as they are pretty much direct sister vehicles. I can't wait for both of them, Matrix will offer so much style and Corolla promises to shake up Civic. I really like what I see of the Japanese Corolla. I hope the S model sticks around, because if it does, it will have an awesome interior.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I heard spring, too. They've had a lot of advance hype surrounding this car. I'm looking forward to a test drive, too.

    -juice
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    driver36driver36 Member Posts: 57
    Hi guys, thanks for your input. I am sure to wait for my new Matrix or the 2003 Corolla S, even if I have to rent a car for a month or so to wait for it. The toyota's A/C is the best when it compares to Honda. It does not matter its Acura or Honda line. Toyota would be my next car for sure.

    Thank You again :o)
    driver36
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    vonnyvoncevonnyvonce Member Posts: 129
    My Dad has a 99 Corolla automatic. This is one fantastic combination. Not fast but smooth and reliable. Gearing is terrific with highways revs of 2000 at 60 mph unheard of in a small 4 cylinder. Match this with the Matrix/Vibe body and fine AWD system and its a nice combination. Questions are comfy?, sets in Coroola are very UNcomfy and interior room. Headed to Boston Auto show next week. Hope to get a good look.
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    dverespeydverespey Member Posts: 56
    Production starts in Jan, with ramp up time and demos the cars should start showing up around the middle of Feb.
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    eclipsegseclipsegs Member Posts: 66
    Just when you think you found the next car you want, something else is in development. I'm speaking of the new Mazda 6 and RX8 coming out within a few years. Read the Edmunds article on these babies. Time to startt saving my pennies.
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    jimjpsjimjps Member Posts: 146
    Looks like Japan may get it's own version of the Matrix and that would be the new Caldina.

    See: http://www.mag-x.com/scoop/scoop_tm.html


    at least there is a very striking similarity from these artist sketches and powertrain seems to have some similarity. The image of the Caldina looks like a cleaned-up matrix without the

    boy-racer side panels.

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    jm375jm375 Member Posts: 1
    Is there any word on whether or not the Matrix will have a glass liftgate like the Vibe? As far as I'm concerned, the lack of a roofrack and cladding on the Matrix will save enough weigh to nudge the gas mileage up a bit, which sells me on the Matrix as long as there is a liftglass. Is there any word on what the mileage will be for the AWD version? I'm wondering how much below 27/32 the extra weight and friction, plus the auto tranny, will drag down the mileage. Still, I can't wait until 02/02/02!
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If the Vibe has a separate hinge for the glass, my guess is the Matrix will too.

    The AWD will have 120hp, so I imagine it'll give up about 1-2mpg to the FWD 130hp version.

    Auto? In the Corolla you give up 2mpg vs. the manual.

    -juice
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    damax07damax07 Member Posts: 32
    Jm375,


    In regard to your question, you can go to www.wieck.com. Go under the Public Access link and input "Matrix" in the search criteria. Browse through the pictures. On the second page, the second photo of the Pre-Production Matrix clearly show the hydraulic pump for the lift glass and the hatch.

    Here the link if you having a hard time finding it.

    http://wieck.com/public/*2PV_028571


    Hope this you'll convince you.


    Damax07

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    johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    In what I think is a serious mistake, Pontiac is QUITE proud of itself that the Vibe will NOT be available with an auto trans and the 180 hp engine from the Celica (the last part they would never ever say!)

    Having apparently learned nothing from Ford Taurus SHO, they apparently do not realise many things:

    a. many young people do NOT drive a stick and have exactly NO desire to learn.

    b. A stick is a pain in the rear in Chicago, NY, LA, etc.

    c. Maintenance long term is lower on an auto, though it costs more to start with and repairs are MUCH more expensive if they ARE needed

    My question is this. The Toyota web sites are vague. CAN you get a 180 hp engine AND auto on the Matrix? If you can, I will probably buy one. If not, I am interested in a Mercury Marauder or a Crown Vic with the handling package. Yep, odd combination. I admit it!
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The 130hp engine only gives up a few lb-ft of torque to the 180hp mill. With an auto tranny, torque is more important than horsepower.

    But yes, 93% of the market is for autos, and they would potentially lost some customers. I prefer manuals, but I'm in the minority.

    -juice
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    jas28jas28 Member Posts: 50
    I believe that you can get an auto with the 180 HP Matrix - look at their website - if you look at the engine specs or overall vehicle specs on the pdf file, it says both a six speed manual and 4 speed auto are "available" with the 180 hp engine.

    Jake
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    motormindmotormind Member Posts: 6
    Is AWD available with the 180hp engine and automatic transmission? The pdf spec file is not very clear.

    It would be fun if they offered the Celica GT-S's steering wheel shift on the 180hp model.
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    lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    AWD only comes with the 120 horse engine.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    ..and that's their biggest mistake!

    If anything, AWD version should get more power, not less.

    -juice
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    bill_1bill_1 Member Posts: 97
    Sorry for jumping in, but I would guess that it would actually be hard to put AWD on the 180hp engine. Alot the benefits of AWD have to do with torque and there just is not much torque with that engine.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But there is also more drag with the AWD powertrain, so a 120hp AWD model will be ssloooww!

    TRD will offer a supercharger, which can address the problem, I guess.

    -juice
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    artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    juice......it's the same engine as the 130 hp fwd model, so it's possible that it's just tuned slightly different for more torque at the expense of a few hp......at least I'm hoping that's the case.
    actually, the 180 and 130 hp engines don't differ that much when it comes to torque.....i remember one reviewer preferring the standard engine in the celica over the 180 hp version due to it's similar torque and lighter weight.
    as an aside, it would've been nice to have the Rav-4's engine in the AWD version but maybe it didn't fit.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree about the torque, I guess I was just hoping for a little extra, even compared to the 180hp power mill, with the AWD.

    -juice
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    coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    I was at the Toyota dealer a week or so ago and saw a line up brochure. In the coming soon section they had the "Corolla Matrix" listed. the NHTSA has also called it the "Corolla Matrix" in their future testing. Also, Car And Driver had the article about the Matrix having to do with the Corolla name. Is anyone able to confirm it will be the "Corolla Matrix"?
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    artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    Check out the Dec. Sport Compact Car for an article (two actually) on the Matrix XRS
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    sn1pesn1pe Member Posts: 3
    Well, I did a little snooping..turns out the MSRP is $18500...just look in the contest rules for the matrix video mixer..

    "b. One (1) Grand Prize: A 2003 Toyota Matrix (Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price: $18,500). The Grand Prize Vehicle Prize winner will be determined randomly in a drawing from among all Finalist Prize winners on or about January 30, 2002. "

    Is that for the base model or the sport one?
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't see why they would keep the Corolla name. I remember the Altima was the "Stanza Altima" for the first year, until Nissan figured the Altima name could stand by itself.

    -juice
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    TupTup Member Posts: 200
    Well, I went to a car show (Halifax NS) and saw a base Matrix with All wheel drive. It was roped off so I couldn't sit in it. Nice to see one without the skirting. It was the light blue color which I don't really like. The Toyota guy at the show knew less than I did...he didn't even know there was a 130hp Front WD version.

    I like the car more from the front and rear than from the side. We actually have a black one on order. It is due to be made in January at the Canadian factory with delivery in February. I figure the black color will look better from the side (at least to me) since the C pillar won't look so much like it's missing. We currently have a Subaru Forester for AWD needs so this will replace our Mazda MX3 as our second car. It should be more functional for our 2 yr old. We ordered a Base 5 speed Matrix with the "B" option package (Power locks, keyless entry, alloy wheels, A/C). Pricing hasn't been firmed up but the dealer has said if we don't like it, he won't hold us to it. We have sold our MX3 ourselves and have agreed on $800 or so off sug retail for now.

    The dealer did show me a notice he received from Toyota saying that the Automatic paired to the 180HP engine pretty much on par with the Automatic paired with the 130 hp engine. I assume that the automatic shifts at RPM's too low to benefit from the extra power. I think they were still working on this but it may be why Pontiac opted out of a 180 HP automatic Vibe.

    It was neat to be able to compare it at the show vs the Lexus new 5 door hatch and the Focus ZX5 etc. The Matrix, due to it's extra height, looks larger and stockier than these others. I also noticed that the show vehicle (preproduction unit) had wheel covers and 205-55-16 Goodyear Eagle RSA tires.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Car shows are a great place to shop around without any pressure from sales staff.

    I have a Forester and a 2 year old, too. Small world.

    -juice
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    artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    See Canadian Driver for a Matrix Preview

    http://www.canadiandriver.com/previews/03matrix.htm

    Tup....I can't wait to see one without the ground effects too....especially that cow catcher in the front....sounds like I'll have to go with a base AWD as even the XR includes the skirts. Wish there were some more pix, especially of the base models.
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    TupTup Member Posts: 200
    The Xr claims side skirts and the XRS claims full skirt package...so there may be no cow catcher on the XR.

    The dealer told me our car is to be built on January 8 with a 2-3 week wait until he receives it.

    My wife actually prefers the looks of the Vibe but she is not a pontiac fan. I also remember when I had my Talon always telling people it was a Mitsubishi not a Chrysler(That was before they put a chrysler engine in it).

    The looks do seem to grow on you though.
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    damax07damax07 Member Posts: 32
    Thanks for the info on the skirting.
    Are dealers beginning to take orders on the Matrix?

    Damax07
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    jimjpsjimjps Member Posts: 146
    The 2003 Matrix and Vibe will be released before the 2002 Mazda MPV! (store that under littleknownanduselessinformation)
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    TupTup Member Posts: 200
    I asked the dealer about that. He told me that there are rules for introducing models before the traditional August/Sept model year starts. Apparently, you can't do that type of intro unless it is a completely new vehicle(or total redesign). Apparently there are fines for not following this rule.

    Delears should be able to take orders(took mine)....but you would have to do so without knowing the pricing(as I did).
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    dverespeydverespey Member Posts: 56
    There are also several issues about when they have to be built by. It's a very waky song nd dance to get the model year thing right.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually, the only rule is you have to wait until Jan. 1 of the current year to introduce a model for the next year. So after the new year a 2003 model can be launched, whether or not it is brand new.

    For example, last year the Impreza launch was in March 2001, and they called it a 2002. It was all new, but the Forester was not new at all (the 2001 had just been face-lifted), just a new model year, and because they share an assembly line they started selling the 2002 Forester also in March.

    If Mazda was smart, they would not ever have a 2002 MPV, just call it a 2003 and wait for January to sell it, because that helps resale value since it seems newer.

    -juice
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    artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    see today's globe & mail:

    http://www.globeandmail.com/globemegawheels/20011129/more.html

    sounds positive....i was worried they might cut corners in sound insulation etc but doesn't seem to be the case....the only questions for me are does it have enough space and can it get out of it's own way? (I don't need a road rocket but don't want a slug either). I f they keep it close to the Corolla's price, it might be a nice surprise.
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    joee1joee1 Member Posts: 16
    Does anyone know if a roof rack will be offered on the Matrix?
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    coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    The Matrix is sounding very promising!
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    TupTup Member Posts: 200
    Has anyone else seen a picture (or in real life) of the Base of Xr Matrix? The base 4wd that I saw at the car show was not a true indication of production as far as I can tell. It had color coordinated mirrors but not door handles (production base should have black mirrors and handles). It also had G-year Eagle RSA tires and I'm hoping that they use different tires in the production car.
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    TupTup Member Posts: 200
    Just wondering if anyone has speculated what the cost of the Matrix will be. Can Toyota charge more for a base Matrix with A/C and alloys etc than Mazda does for a similarly equipped Pro-5? After all, there are very few differences between the two base vehicles.
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    odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    Montanafan posted a link to the Vibe's US pricing (http://media.gm.com).

    Base Vibe $16,900
    Vibe GT $19,900
    Vibe AWD $20,100 (all prices include $560 destination charge)

    Matrix can't be that far off. The RAV4 is not that far off, so it will be interesting to see what happens between RAV4 and Matrix. This is obviously not a problem at Pontiac, since they don't have a mini SUV.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I predict most Rav4s come with AWD while most Matrices (sp?) will be FWD.

    -juice
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    artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    If the Matrix AWD comes in around 27K ($Can), that's $4000 more than an automatic Impreza TS wagon....$4000 more for 42 less HP, almost 5 cu.ft. less cargo room (with seats folded...about the same room with seats up) and a less-effective AWD system. Subaru better crank up the advertising budget...they should be able to move a lot of cars on a comparison basis alone.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    AWD should be similar to the Subie manuals, viscous coupling, I believe. They are effective.

    The TS is a great value, no doubt.

    -juice
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    TupTup Member Posts: 200
    Well, the Vibe pricing is about what I expected. Fairly similar to the Focus ZX5 and the Protege-5. Since we have a Subaru Forester for our all wheel drive needs, we want a more fuel efficient vehicle (my wife has a long commute). So we have a base Matrix on order.

    As others have pointed out, the Impreza TS is a real bargain in comparison. Since the put the 2.5L engine it it...it has become a real steal. It's looks are a little dowdy but when compared to a Matrix/Vibe AWD vehicle....you could get used to it.

    With the Matrix AWD being around the same price as a more powerful Rav4 AWD...makes one wonder. With the 123 HP paired with Automatic and AWD....it's going to be a SLOWWWWWWW vehicle!!!

    Magazine comparisons with an Impreza will be interesting when looking at AWD.

    Toyota doesn't expect to sell many AWD's in Canada. The dealer showed me Toyota's estimates. 50% of all Matrix sales are estimated to be for the Base with the "B" option package (what we ordered); 30% for the Matrix XR; 5% for the Base Matrix (no options); 1% for base Matrix AWD; 4% for base Matrix AWD "B" option package; 5% for Matrix XR AWD; 5% fpr Matrix XRS.

    So they expect AWD models to account for only 10% of all Matrix sales.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interesting, even in Canada, eh?

    -juice
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    TupTup Member Posts: 200
    Well, the Vibe pricing is about what I expected. Fairly similar to the Focus ZX5 and the Protege-5. Since we have a Subaru Forester for our all wheel drive needs, we want a more fuel efficient vehicle (my wife has a long commute). So we have a base Matrix on order.

    As others have pointed out, the Impreza TS is a real bargain in comparison. Since the put the 2.5L engine it it...it has become a real steal. It's looks are a little dowdy but when compared to a Matrix/Vibe AWD vehicle....you could get used to it.

    With the Matrix AWD being around the same price as a more powerful Rav4 AWD...makes one wonder. With the 123 HP paired with Automatic and AWD....it's going to be a SLOWWWWWWW vehicle!!!

    Magazine comparisons with an Impreza will be interesting when looking at AWD.

    Toyota doesn't expect to sell many AWD's in Canada. The dealer showed me Toyota's estimates. 50% of all Matrix sales are estimated to be for the Base with the "B" option package (what we ordered); 30% for the Matrix XR; 5% for the Base Matrix (no options); 1% for base Matrix AWD; 4% for base Matrix AWD "B" option package; 5% for Matrix XR AWD; 5% fpr Matrix XRS.

    So they expect AWD models to account for only 10% of all Matrix sales.
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    artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    If Toyota prices it over 27K, it won't be a good value compared to the aforementioned TS Wagon, not to mention base VUE's, CRV's, Escapes, Santa Fe's, etc.etc. (and it's way down on power compared to any of them)so no wonder they have a pessimistic sales forecast.
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    jvkalrajvkalra Member Posts: 98
    I think that Toyota will play the usual options game with Matrix pricing, loading it up with unnecessary "options" based on supply/demand. They will make it difficult for their target (young) buyer to find the Matrix that they want, in the price range that they want. The same thing happened when they introduced the RAV4 back in '96, with the result that the average age of RAV4 buyers is in the 40s, not 20s or 30s.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They do nickel and dime you with options. A base price of $16k can creep up to the mid $20s pretty quick, so I agree.

    -juice
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    bill_1bill_1 Member Posts: 97
    Just a point, while the Matrix and the Subaru both use a Viscous Coupling for AWD, that doesn't mean they are equivalent. It all depends on how things are rigged. On the Subaru the default is 50% power to the front wheels and 50% to the rear wheel, other systems only provide power to the back wheels if the car slips; the Subaru system leads to better over all control.
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