U.S. Auto Market News and Reviews

berri

...and now, the rest of the story

Mr_Shiftright

I finally peeked at my IRA account, like I was squeezing open a poker hand, and.....it wasn't too bad at all.

Diversify!

uplanderguy

The market ended up today, according to msn, but it was a bumpy ride.

fintail

I see American cars are on China's naughty list in the burgeoning trade war - I wonder if they actually import any from the US, rather than just assembling them at home in IP-stealing joint ventures.

berri

Bingo!

uplanderguy

I know this only from recently reading a book on Coolidge, but the Dow Jones numbers in the twenties were in the 300's. That sounds completely ridiculous today.

fintail

You could also buy a new car (non Model T) for $600 and a decent house around here for $5000

uplanderguy

Speaking of homes, I saw yesterday that this home is on the market in my old hometown. I'd like to retire back there but my wife says 'no way'. I know this house somewhat; only about two short blocks from where I grew up. The big front porch used to face Columbia Avenue; house sits on a hill; at some point the property must've been split up as a beautiful, small white ranch house was built just below it, making the original house's address change to the name of the side street, Shady Avenue. I hear there's water damage and holes in the roof where you can see sky, and the cabinetry and colors are straight 1952 it looks like from the pics, but this is one I'd like to see what Chip and Joanna could do, LOL. Asking price $59,900.

Includes that red barn/garage.

BTW, I always loved the little ranch just below this house. Cement steps built into the hill out front and a garage with doors on both sides, so you can enter on Columbia and exit driving frontwards out onto Shady Avenue.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Delaware-Township-PA-16125/78707175_zpid/64459_rid/globalrelevanceex_sort/41.540192,-80.136338,41.279612,-80.597077_rect/10_zm/

fintail

That's insane. Sure it needs 6 figures of work, but for the price of a not fully loaded C-class, wow. Looks like a nice neighborhood on google, too. That'd be 7 figures in Seattle easy. I like the barn/outbuilding.

This is the cheapest current detached listing in my zipcode - effectively offered as a teardown on a lot I suspect isn't very developable.

My parents did the old house thing a couple times when I was a kid, I can understand the "no way". Like with an old car, sometimes it is best to buy a mostly finished project.

uplanderguy

No doubt.

My hometown is depressed. There were all income levels when I was growing up, although in hindsight I'd say we were lower-middle-class, LOL. Dad worked at the post office; Mom was a stay-at-home. Large industries were the headquarters of a railroad, and a railcar-building company. The first is a shell of itself, and the second is gone. A third large plant made iron and steel bridges and watertowers for around the world. It's gone too. The area is still pretty scenic IMHO; in a valley, a small college is still there and frankly looks better now than it did when I lived there, and a hospital (although whispers talk of it going away). The downtown area still looks pretty nice, actually. The post office is amazing and a guy on NPR a few years ago called it the most beautiful post office in the U.S. A state park is ten miles away.

My wife thinks it's too small--the town that is. I tried to show her this house last night and she feigned (lightly) interest, LOL.

fintail

It might be a good place to retire, but I suspect she is on to something, not just with a money pit house. My mom lives in an area with housing not much more expensive (also an old working class area that has a depressed economy), and medical care is becoming an issue. She sometimes has to drive 2 hours to receive specific care, as the local hospital is quite basic. Would that area be similar? It's scenic to some people and has summer tourism, a lot of people retire there, but as healthcare is becoming an issue, that might change. I could afford a minor mansion there, but the three hour each way commute would be a bit tough.

On the US car subject, the town had two oddities - Chevy and Toyota sharing a building, and Buick/Cadillac and Honda sharing a building. This existed into the 21st century, but now Chevy and Toyota have their own buildings (on the same large lot), and the Honda line is the only one left in the prior spot.

uplanderguy

Yes, my sister's husband's heart issues get sent to Erie, 60 miles north. I always appreciated that when my mother fell at her nursing home, there was a hospital locally. They're lucky to have a hospital there at all I think.

The white ranch house I loved with the drive-through garage on one bay, looks like the Shady Avenue side door has been covered over. Probably built a room in the garage. I hate when people do that! LOL

https://www.google.com/maps/place/4+Shady+Ave,+Greenville,+PA+16125/@41.4023031,-80.3768345,3a,75y,2.37h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5IV_CB7BqQ-FZ2zn4dxubA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x8833b6d0ac23c87f:0xe376770130200e39!8m2!3d41.4025512!4d-80.3765432

uplanderguy

Bringing it back to cars, my hometown has a Ford dealer right in town, and a Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep dealer on the outskirts now. That's it. The Chevy-Cadillac dealer was owned by a family from 1936-91. Someone bought them out when they retired, built a new building on the west side of town, where there's nothing else, and failed in a few years. All retail growth has been on the eastern edges.

The owner of the old Chev-Cad dealer told me that into the '70's, all the town's dealers sold about 700 or so new vehicles yearly, and they sold half of them.

Hard to believe in my hometown, fin, you could've got your fintail serviced at the factory-authorized dealership by a guy who was trained at M-B school in NYC. (Well, at least through 1968 when they closed.)

The town only one year ago got its first chain hotel, LOL. It's a big footprint. I hope they do OK on things other than high-school reunions and such.

Speaking of service...someone mentioned here earlier how I should think about looking at a Volt and that he likes his a lot. I'd be worried a bit about service. I can picture it being treated like Corvairs apparently were at Chevy dealers--one dedicated guy and no one else wanted to work on them there, LOL! I hope I'm wrong!

uplanderguy

One last thing about my wife and my hometown--just a couple weeks ago she was telling someone "Bill's a celebrity in Greenville". Not exactly, but it seems to sometimes irk her when I bump into more people there that know me than where we live, LOL.

Mr_Shiftright

Even Henry Ford realized that you had to pay workers a decent wage in order for them to buy your product.

American corporations have to realize, and fast, that if you take too many chips out of the game, the game stops.

fintail

It is something that such a small place had a MB dealer - the school and local engineer types must have kept it going. The town my mom lives in is likely larger, but never had MB attached to the Stude dealer there. It did have VW and a host of oddball Euros - all under one roof, IIRC. I think they've been gone for 40 years now. Today it is big 3 along with Toyota and Honda, nothing else. Probably like your town, the main dealers are on the retail streets leading in and out of town. It also has one purpose-built chain hotel, which I think does ok business as it is by far the nicest within a half hour or more drive.

Also amusing I saw that fire truck from Greenville in Germany of all places.

I think the Volt is the most interesting new Chevy passenger car. There should be enough momentum behind them now to keep them going - no Nader types calling them out.

uplanderguy said:

Bringing it back to cars, my hometown has a Ford dealer right in town, and a Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep dealer on the outskirts now. That's it. The Chevy-Cadillac dealer was owned by a family from 1936-91. Someone bought them out when they retired, built a new building on the west side of town, where there's nothing else, and failed in a few years. All retail growth has been on the eastern edges.

The owner of the old Chev-Cad dealer told me that into the '70's, all the town's dealers sold about 700 or so new vehicles yearly, and they sold half of them.

Hard to believe in my hometown, fin, you could've got your fintail serviced at the factory-authorized dealership by a guy who was trained at M-B school in NYC. (Well, at least through 1968 when they closed.)

The town only one year ago got its first chain hotel, LOL. It's a big footprint. I hope they do OK on things other than high-school reunions and such.

Speaking of service...someone mentioned here earlier how I should think about looking at a Volt and that he likes his a lot. I'd be worried a bit about service. I can picture it being treated like Corvairs apparently were at Chevy dealers--one dedicated guy and no one else wanted to work on them there, LOL! I hope I'm wrong!

fintail

I wonder if TEM (temporarily embarrassed millionaire) syndrome, suffered by people in this great land more than most, will keep the people from applying real pressure.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Even Henry Ford realized that you had to pay workers a decent wage in order for them to buy your product.

American corporations have to realize, and fast, that if you take too many chips out of the game, the game stops.

Mr_Shiftright

Well, in the Great Depression, if you went out in your fancy car, people often threw rocks at you. For this reason, many wealthier people bought more modest cars for getting around. Some even had custom bodies put on Model A Ford.

fintail

This is the age of conspicuous consumption and blind deference given to money. I think the chasm will have to devolve from the Gatsbian scene today to the Dickensian reality some seem to want, for most to even think of taking such action.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm not so sure. America is a tinderbox right now and who knows what spark will set it off?

thebean

Mr_Shiftright said:

Even Henry Ford realized that you had to pay workers a decent wage in order for them to buy your product.

American corporations have to realize, and fast, that if you take too many chips out of the game, the game stops.

This is top-notch wisdom. I've always said Walmart squeezes their suppliers so hard so that the suppliers have to cut their employees pay and they can't afford to shop anywhere else other than Walmart. Increasing market share by draconian measures.

uplanderguy

My Dad used to say, "There's money in this town, but people don't act like it" (he meant that in a good way). A few years ago, a bachelor fellow whose parents owned the local newsstand, and he retired from a Corporate job at the railroad-car-building plant, died. Everyone spoke highly of him; he lived in his parents' large old home probably eight blocks from the house for sale I posted, and he drove Chevy coupes, Caprices and Malibu Classics, with blackwall tires (LOL). He was mid-or-late eighties when he died. When he died he left around $15 million, to the college and the historical society. I figured he was comfortable, but that blew my mind.

uplanderguy

fin, I am still flabbergasted you came across a Greenville, PA fire engine in Germany.

tlong

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well, in the Great Depression, if you went out in your fancy car, people often threw rocks at you. For this reason, many wealthier people bought more modest cars for getting around. Some even had custom bodies put on Model A Ford.

In the book "The Millionaire Next Door" (it's a bit dated now), studies showed that most wealthy people drove modest cars and didn't flaunt their wealth. The ones that had to have the fancy cars and other consumables are often teetering on mounds of leverage and debt. The minute something (job, economy) goes wrong, they are the first to collapse.

fintail

That's an interesting way to look at it. Ford paid the workers who put up with him and his sometimes loathsome policies enough to afford his products. Today, the goal for many seems to pay so little as they will be forced to shop in specific places. Race to the bottom.

On the flaunting wealth subjects below, I wonder if it will actually become a dangerous game. I have my doubts. There's still a crazy amount of "money = good" thought out there.

thebean said:

This is top-notch wisdom. I've always said Walmart squeezes their suppliers so hard so that the suppliers have to cut their employees pay and they can't afford to shop anywhere else other than Walmart. Increasing market share by draconian measures.

Mr_Shiftright

These trade war saber-rattles might just be political posturing, like how the Italians used to fight wars in the 18th century--big displays of aggression, then you meet in a tent and work out a face-saving compromise for both sides without actually fighting.

But like any aggression, things can escalate quickly and trade wars can drive up inflation and interest rates, and that would be very bad for the auto biz.

I'm amazed sometimes how these "experts" on TV and cable networks are so ignorant of basic economics, and I, barely well-schooled in the dismal science, am shaking my head in disbelief.

I caught some stock market "guru" saying the other day that the U.S. "doesn't need to trade" with anyone and that the trade deficits are completely harmful.

Wrong, wrong, both times!

thebean

Mr_Shiftright said:

These trade war saber-rattles might just be political posturing, like how the Italians used to fight wars in the 18th century--big displays of aggression, then you meet in a tent and work out a face-saving compromise for both sides without actually fighting.

But like any aggression, things can escalate quickly and trade wars can drive up inflation and interest rates, and that would be very bad for the auto biz.

I'm amazed sometimes how these "experts" on TV and cable networks are so ignorant of basic economics, and I, barely well-schooled in the dismal science, am shaking my head in disbelief.

I caught some stock market "guru" saying the other day that the U.S. "doesn't need to trade" with anyone and that the trade deficits are completely harmful.

Wrong, wrong, both times!

Are you sure it was a "stock market guru" or was it the chief White House economic adviser?

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, HIM. He's the one who completely missed the last crash. He was touting stocks even as the disaster was unfolding. (not that he was alone in that, by any means).

But really, for anyone to say that the USA doesn't need to trade at all---(smacks forehead).

I suppose in a massive trade war the USA would be the last man standing, but still--it would be ugly.

Nothing in the stores, and cars in the showrooms might be considerably pricier (as would most most goods).

And then, of course, other countries would no longer have the dollars to buy U.S. debt.

Hoo-hah. Let's hope all this never happens.

uplanderguy

Are any cars assembled in California, Shifty? I know there used to be. I guess...besides Teslas. Curious more than anything. I remember GM used to have Van Nuys assembly out there and NUMMI too.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't think so, other than Tesla. I believe there are quite a few HQ in California but no assembly plants. They are all in the Midwest or South, where they have received tax breaks, and where the UAW is pretty weak. Also, many of these plants use sub-contractors, where you work at the plant, next to company employees, but are paid less.

I don't think Tesla is unionized either, however. I think Tesla chose California because it is so close to their main market and high-tech talent.

Michaell

Mr_Shiftright said:

I don't think so, other than Tesla. I believe there are quite a few HQ in California but no assembly plants. They are all in the Midwest or South, where they have received tax breaks, and where the UAW is pretty weak. Also, many of these plants use sub-contractors, where you work at the plant, next to company employees, but are paid less.

I don't think Tesla is unionized either, however. I think Tesla chose California because it is so close to their main market and high-tech talent.

There used to be a GM plant in Van Nuys, CA, that produced the Camaro and Firebird, but that closed down in the late 80's or early 90's.

The Tesla plant is the old NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA, where GM and Toyota jointly built cars.

uplanderguy

Thanks Michael; I didn't know Tesla was in the old NUMMI plant.

tlong

Mr_Shiftright said:

I'm amazed sometimes how these "experts" on TV and cable networks are so ignorant of basic economics, and I, barely well-schooled in the dismal science, am shaking my head in disbelief.

I think your fundamental mistake is assuming most of them are experts. They are just ignorant and sometimes pretty performers!

Mr_Shiftright

More like performance artists I suspect. "OK, let's see your act!"

The automobile industry is no exception either. I have to wonder who makes these decisions about certain cars, and/or branding or pricing strategies.

fintail

Pretty performer gets you a role on Fox & Friends. No credentials required.

I suspect either dopey "ad creatives" or lowest cost-seeking accountants are behind a lot of product and branding strategy.

tlong

If you can BS, and look decent (unless an older white male), we have a job for you!

On cars, I just noticed that a house around the corner owns a red Aztec, parked in the driveway.
It looks......thick.

uplanderguy

The best show on Fox is "Special Report" with Bret Baier, at 6 pm daily. Often features Mara Liasson of NPR. It's a news show, not the host's opinion. I think Shepard Smith (news division) and Chris Wallace (Mike's son; hosts a typical Sunday morning news show) are solid-types on Fox, too. "Fox and Friends" in the morning is entertainment, basically--like "Today" and most morning shows. You wouldn't find any complaints with Baier, Smith, and Wallace.

tlong

I agree Wallace is solid.
Still, a lot of shows that masquerade as news these days.

On cars, what's everybody's take on how Mary Barra has done as CEO of GM? She seems pretty solid, although perhaps not inspirational.

circlew

On cars, what's everybody's take on how Mary Barra has done as CEO of GM? She seems pretty solid, although perhaps not inspirational.

Pretty good. No more crappy cars!

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-mary-barra-silenced-critics-who-called-her-a-lightweight-2018-1

uplanderguy

Seems like she's pretty invisible. I can't remember when I've last seen her..

uplanderguy

I will say the last pic of her I'd seen, from an Automotive News article someone sent me probably six or more months ago, I'd say she's had some work done.

Mr_Shiftright

Tesla Model 3 production was just shut down for about a week.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-model-3-production-shuts-000000924.html

berri

Don't forget Ruess (spelling?), her #2. I think he is pretty solid also and quietly the two of them are making some improvements and gains. Hopefully the new Ford CEO will resurrect their product as well. Then there is Marchionne (spelling?) over at FCA and the question of who will replace him next year (or buy them out)? Looks like the upcoming RAM has made some big strides over there.

Michaell

berri said:

Don't forget Ruess (spelling?), her #2. I think he is pretty solid also and quietly the two of them are making some improvements and gains. Hopefully the new Ford CEO will resurrect their product as well. Then there is Marchionne (spelling?) over at FCA and the question of who will replace him next year (or buy them out)? Looks like the upcoming RAM has made some big strides over there.

FCA will be on the ropes again when gas goes to $4/gal. They have no small or medium sized cars in their stable - all their eggs are of the SUV / truck / muscle car variety.

Mr_Shiftright

We're already pretty close to $4/gal here in California.

berri

Ford may be steering to a similar dilemma the next couple of years.

Michaell

berri said:

Ford may be steering to a similar dilemma the next couple of years.

Which leaves ... the General. Still making cars of all shapes and sizes.

Mr_Shiftright

GM seems to have the best EV (by far) and best PHEV. Question is: can you make money on cars like that? GM also has the very high end SUV market, and until last year when it dragged, the Camaro competed quite well against the Mustang. The pickup wars have always been hotly contested between the two companies.

circlew

US manufacturers will be hit hard very soon if this news comes to pass...

The automotive industry wants to make 95 octane gasoline the new normal for the United States and it has taken its case to Washington. On Friday, Dan Nicholson, General Motors’ vice president of global propulsion systems, told the House Energy and Commerce Committee’s environment subcommittee that switching to 95 octane would align the U.S. with Europe and is one of the most affordable ways to boost fuel economy and lower greenhouse emissions.

Affordable for automakers, that is. Because there is no reason to think your local gas station will suddenly do you a solid and price 95 octane lower just because 87 is gone.

Interesting that it comes from GM! All of the studies I've read shows very small advantage for efficiency between 87 vs 93 octane.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/04/premium-new-regular/

fintail

Bad idea, we need low cost fuel for low cost roads and low skill drivers.

I didn't click on the link, but I know Europe uses a different method of octane ratings. I've never seen 95 octane fuel on this continent.