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U.S. Auto Market News and Reviews

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 12,120
    edited March 2015
    Trust me, here in Ohio, one hears from Honda owners, "It's built in Ohio!".

    I'll have to look online, but I'd be surprised if second-gen Neons outsold Civics, even in Ohio.

    And yes, I tend to believe my own eyes and ears, if something's right in front of me.

    I have a habit of asking questions if numbers don't add up or something here....thanks for the kind words. Every forum needs both sides of a discussion.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,194
    "GM to cut GMC, Chevy Powertrain Warranty to 60,000 Miles".
    "DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Co said on Thursday it plans to cut its powertrain warranty on Chevrolet and GMC vehicles for the 2016 model year because the offer was not a strong enough selling point."

    GM claims that the longer warranty wasn't a selling point for buyers. Sounds like a bit of a cop out to me. Once times get good, start cutting the benefits.

    I still think the test of GM's strength (or not) will be in the next recession.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    5/60 is pretty common - what was it before, 100k?
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    "“We talked to our customers and learned that free scheduled maintenance and warranty coverage do not rank high as a reason to purchase a vehicle among buyers of non-luxury brands," GM said in a statement."

    Maybe I'm not alone;) I've never considered length of warranty as a factor in choosing a vehicle.
  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXPosts: 2,575
    For 2015 model year, Chevrolet warranty is for 3/36 bumper to bumper, and 5/100 powertrain. So they're keeping the same length of time, and cutting the miles from 100k to 60k.

    For me, length of warranty is a factor, but only a small factor.

    The whole "free scheduled maintenance" is a bit of a joke. When I purchased my 2013 Silverado, the salesman was bragging about that. What it amounts to is 2 oil changes. Big whoop, 2 oil changes. And you have to jump through hoops. The oil maintenance minder has to be at 10% or less, which means you have to be up close to 10k miles. I change oil at 5k intervals, so I would have to NOT reset the oil change indicator, and then I could get every other oil change done for free. Like I said, big whoop.
    2018 Ford F150 XLT Crew Cab, 2016 Chrysler Town & Country Touring
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,194
    The thing is, if it didn't cost much then why wouldn't GM keep it the way it was? It was perceived to be a competitive advantage and I believe it was added during the BK to restore some confidence and to compete with the long Hyundai warranty. I guess since GM is doing better, wants to boost profits, and Hyundai isn't ascending so much these days it is no longer necessary...
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    I wonder why HyunKia was successful at using 10yr/100,000 mile warranty to grow sales vs. GM?

    See Malibu vs. Sonata and Optima.

    Why would you not EXTEND the warranty if it worked for them?
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    edited March 2015
    I tend to agree with this view...but maybe that's only me. :)
    Even so, "As part of a broader marketing message, long-term warranties can convey confidence in quality and durability that improve brand perception and contribute to long-term growth in sales, resale value and new-car transaction prices," says Eric Lyman, TrueCar top analyst and vice president of Industry Insights.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited March 2015
    The 7/70 drivetrain warranty was a big factor for our buying an '89 Plymouth Voyager. Otherwise we'd have looked harder at something else (we were driving the '82 Tercel at the time and it was very reliable). No idea what else we would have looked at though, probably a wagon, and probably foreign. We used the Plymouth warranty to get three headgaskets done.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    But, then again, maybe it 'aint just me, after all!
    "The decision to curtail one's warranty terms results in a 24.88% decline in one's market share growth. ... We find it surprising to discover such a large effect," says a study published in 2009 in the Journal of Business Research.

    It was written by Oleg Korenok, George E. Hoffer and Edward L. Millner at Virginia Commonwealth University.

    Hoffer has for years researched the impact of car company changes to things such as styling, names and warranties.

    New styling tends to be the biggest bang for the buck, he says.

    The study he co-authored says, "Warranty improvements signal improved vehicle quality and lower maintenance costs. Warranty curtailments signal the opposite.''

    The authors note that "Korean manufacturers' share of the U.S. market quintupled from 1% in 1996 to 5% in 2006. Much of the credit for this increase has been attributed to restyling, lengthened warranty, and improved quality."

    South Korea's Hyundai and corporate cousin Kia are known for their long powertrain warranties: 10 years/100,000 miles.
  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    It seems to me that the warranties were covering less and less over time with many exclusions. For example, at GM the Stabilitrak apparent problem child was not covered under the extended drivetrain warranty. I don't believe HyunKia's are transferable. So really, what good were they? Free 2 year maintenance is another loser to me. You get maybe two oil changes at points nearing 0 at the possible cost of shortening engine life. Personally, I have to expect the GM warranty was costing them too much money with not apparently a lot in return. The other alternative may be that they are helping dealers sell a higher dollar extended warranty package down the road to bump up dealer profits? I think if you are hoping to keep a vehicle long term, there are two things to do 1) pay attention to long term ownership experience surveys like Consumer Report or applicable JD Power and 2) keep up maintenance including changing your oil before 10%.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 12,120
    edited March 2015
    This is stupid on GM's part, IMHO. Who wouldn't rather have a longer warranty than a shorter one, no matter what anybody actually says?

    Hyunkia has the best warranty in the business, but I think it's the only one that is non-transferable to a subsequent owner. I never understood the thinking of that.

    BTW, I've seen some of the vague 'teases' of the '16 Malibu. One thing I have liked about the current Cruze and Malibu is conservative styling (IMHO). I can see the new Malibu has the same-as-everybody-else's swoopy rear roofline and door-cutout. I hate that, but most people want what everybody else is doing.

    I do like the added wheelbase length.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 12,120
    Incidentally, I swear I saw a blurb the other day about either Honda or Toyota replacing short blocks, but I didn't see the story...and I haven't seen anything here about it (LOL). What is that story?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 12,120
    Thank you. At 137 vehicles, I wouldn't have posted about it either if I knew how small the number was.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 24,739

    Incidentally, I swear I saw a blurb the other day about either Honda or Toyota replacing short blocks, but I didn't see the story...and I haven't seen anything here about it (LOL). What is that story?

    Owner of a toyota in another forum is complaining about oil consumption in
    his Camry. Toyota dealer tried to blame on seeps--2 quarts in 1000 miles approx.?



    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 12,120
    My financial adviser has complained of oil consumption in his 2010 Camry since he bought it. I haven't heard much about this issue, although I haven't searched.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    I know Honda has had oil consumption issues with the 3.5 v6 in Accords. My dad's 09 Accord v6 has been torn down twice due to oil consumption issues. Honda extended the engine warranty to 150k miles.

    My wife had a Saturn that burned a lot of oil. By 80k miles it was burning more than a qt per 1k miles and GM/Saturn said it was acceptable. Even with an purchased 100k mile warranty through GM they wouldn't do anything about it.

    We had to take it in every week for the service department to verify consumption and they said it had to burn more than a qt per 500 miles before they'd fix it.

    BTW, I've over heard similar talk in a Ford dealer too.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    edited March 2015
    Uplander-

    Sure, I'll take the longer warranty. But I've never had a warranty sway my buying decision. I would have bought my Ram whether it had a 12k warranty or a lifetime. I liked the truck more than the competition. If I was worried about the warranty, I would have simply purchased the warranty coverage I wanted.

    Also, I wonder how much confusion the extended warranty causes from a customer service perspective. Someone buys the car, hears it has a 100k mile warranty, not realizing what it doesn't cover. Some expensive electrical component fails at 70k, and they are blindsided by a 4 figure bill.

    I experienced that with my Expedition. Had misfire, check engine like at 58k miles. $1,200 later I found out the holes in a 60k mile powertrain warranty.

    If I would have known ahead of time, I probably would have taken it to an independent mechanic. But after the dealer had it, I didn't have the time or patience to mess with it. I just wanted it fixed.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    edited March 2015
    Granted some dealers are better than others. Though my dad has had major engine trouble with his Honda, the dealer and Honda Corp have treated him so well, he told me he'd "almost" feel bad if he didn't buy another Honda. I
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    Granted some dealers are better than others. Though my dad has had major engine trouble with his Honda, the dealer and Honda Corp have treated him so well, he told me he'd "almost" feel bad if he didn't buy another Honda.
    I've never had that experience with any GM dealer. In fact, the same dealer I bought the POS '03 Yukon Denali from would not fix one particular fault until I envoked the "Lemon Law" paperwork. All of a sudden GM Technical called the dealer and figured out the fix after 2 service visits with a "we can't find any problem" result.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 12,120
    Indeed, some dealers are better than others. Where I've gone for a few years now is starting to turn me back to the dealer that's actually closer to me....last two oil changes, I checked the level shortly after and I was down half a quart. Both times I had them refill. In fact, the second time, I checked before I even left the place and noticed the under-fill. Plus, I had a tire rotation and told them to cross-rotate the rears to the front and I had one mismatched tire (my daughter's used car) and I could tell they didn't do that and I had them re-do it. The dealer nearest me has been one-family-owned since the '30's and gives you a printout of everything they looked at when you're even in for an oil change. Pretty basic but I like that. They are building a new building on the property now and everything's a bit of a mess in the meantime, but I predict I'll switch to them for everything.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,194

    Indeed, some dealers are better than others. Where I've gone for a few years now is starting to turn me back to the dealer that's actually closer to me....last two oil changes, I checked the level shortly after and I was down half a quart. Both times I had them refill. In fact, the second time, I checked before I even left the place and noticed the under-fill. Plus, I had a tire rotation and told them to cross-rotate the rears to the front and I had one mismatched tire (my daughter's used car) and I could tell they didn't do that and I had them re-do it. The dealer nearest me has been one-family-owned since the '30's and gives you a printout of everything they looked at when you're even in for an oil change. Pretty basic but I like that. They are building a new building on the property now and everything's a bit of a mess in the meantime, but I predict I'll switch to them for everything.

    One thing is I think a lot of oil change places check the level when the engine has just been running. You really need to let it sit a bit as oil can still be running down into the case from above. I also think a lot of places just measure some quantity (and may not measure it very well) and then don't check once it is done.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,697
    stever said:

    5/60 is pretty common - what was it before, 100k?

    I find it confidence inspiring when warranties are lengthened (w/o too much fine print), and trust eroding when warranties are shortened.

    Really, a manufacturer should pick a warranty and stick with it, as constant changing of warranty intervals reeks of desperation.

    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD 2.0T
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 12,120
    edited March 2015
    At around 70K miles my Uplander was shifting abruptly when hot, between gears. It needed a module which was replaced free by my dealer, outside of warranty--vehicle was over five years old. In the 40-45K mile range, I complained that the rotors were warped and another dealer replaced all four for free, outside of warranty.

    A coworker who had an '05 Honda Odyssey had complete transmission failure at 70K miles. Honda's "goodwill" offer was $1,700. He said he told the Service Manager, "I thought I bought a Honda, not a Kia!".

    A service writer at a nearby Chevy dealer told me he came from a Honda store and his experience was that Chevy was far-better about offering customers things out of warranty than the store he had come from.

    All anecdotal? Yes, but they actually happened to me and people I see regularly.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    edited March 2015
    GM did well in the JD Power Customer Service for Mass Market brands. So did HyunKia

    ia.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,697
    Very odd that VW ranks high......... I don't put any stock in JD Powers. I think we all agree that manufacturers do good will repairs after warranty, the arguable part is if it is due more to a good dealer or manufacturer policy and budget.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD 2.0T
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,194
    andres3 said:

    Very odd that VW ranks high......... I don't put any stock in JD Powers. I think we all agree that manufacturers do good will repairs after warranty, the arguable part is if it is due more to a good dealer or manufacturer policy and budget.

    I tend to agree. I put much less stock in their ratings than CU. Their numbers are usually short duration (90 day or 3 years if I recall), and aren't they funded by the auto manufacturers themselves?

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    edited March 2015
    Here is the Luxury CS Index. Caddy does well here but sales are dismal. I assume service is not helping them much.

  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Depositions didn't happen a week or so ago in another case because it was settled. This one may go the same way. (NY Times)
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 12,120
    I see Honda has expanded the airbag recalls.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 12,120
    Does CR even rate 'customer service'?
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,622
    Hello, numero uno! I gave my Jag dealer high marks as they have free donuts and ice cream. I can be bought. And, cheaply.

    But, other than the first (free) scheduled maintenance, I haven't needed to visit the dealer. This isn't my father's friend's '60s Jag E-type!

    '13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 12,120
    Speaking of Jag, I met a friend for dinner last night and saw his recent purchase, an XJ8 sedan I think? It's several years old but when Ford owned Jag. It's the large sedan. I still don't do numbers/letters for models very well! Black with beige leather. I have to say, it was beautiful. So distinctly Jag. Not a mark on it either. He bought it at a large Ohio Jag/Land Rover dealer. Doesn't sound like they were any better than your lowly Big Three dealer though. He saw there was a recall and looked online and could tell that that serial number hadn't been repaired. The lady service manager had no idea what he was talking about until he showed her, and they did the recall before he bought the car. He bought it long-distance and paid over a hundred bucks for them to do a complete safety check (pulling wheels and looking at brakes, etc.). I probably wouldn't have bothered, but he said within two weeks he noticed he had two parking lights out. Could that have happened in two weeks? Of course, but.....I know I'd expect a little more out of a high-end dealer like that, but I guess dealers are dealers.
  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXPosts: 2,575
    I bought my 2005 Tahoe about 6 months ago from the Jaguar / Land Rover dealer. They took it in trade, and threw it up on Ebay. Seems they do that for all of their older trade-ins that they don't want to keep on their used car side. They even had one employee who was doing all of the Ebay deals.

    When I was looking it over, I noticed a couple of left over items under the drivers seat, and mentioned something about, "Your detailers didn't do a very thorough job." He replied that they did not pay for a detail on the Ebay cars, just a wash and wax. He said a full detail cost the dealership $265, which is more than I would have guessed. The car was about 1.5 quarts low on oil as well, so obviously no real inspection or prep.

    I will say this, whomever did the wax did a really good job. Six months later, and it still shines and beads up very nicely. I'd like to have them wax my new Ford, I buy expensive waxes and none of them last more than 2 or 3 months.
    2018 Ford F150 XLT Crew Cab, 2016 Chrysler Town & Country Touring
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 24,739
    henryn said:

    whomever did the wax did a really good job. Six months later, and it still shines and beads up very nicely. I'd like to have them wax my new Ford, I buy expensive waxes and none of them last more than 2 or 3 months.

    Ask the shop manager who does the wash/wax on their Ebay vehicles because you thought it was really good and you'd like to know what wax they use. He will tell you probably. Or tell you they have a jobber come in and do it. Find out when the jobber comes and stop in and ask the jobber.



    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,622
    Probably Zaino!

    '13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,622

    Speaking of Jag, I met a friend for dinner last night and saw his recent purchase, an XJ8 sedan I think?

    The new XJ is quite a departure, rather a stunner. Stands out in a sea of S-Class, 7 Series and A8s. Likely the one your friend bought was the last of the "classic" Jag styling, but by all reviews, a very fine car (all aluminum) that just needed to update the look.

    I'm quite looking forward to the next XF and new XE. And, of course, I want an F-Type!

    '13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    edited April 2015
    2016 Chevrolet Malibu: No Yawning!
    We'd tell you to forget the old Malibu, but that's likely already taken care of.
    When Chevrolet last redesigned the Malibu, for 2013, the result seemed steeped in indifference—especially compared with the increasingly inventive competition such as the stylish Hyundai Sonata and the Ford Fusion. The Chevy was bland, and worse still, its back seat was more cramped than the preceding model’s. Chevrolet immediately whipped up a slightly improved Malibu the very next year, but it couldn’t fix the itty-bitty back seat—or the car’s basic meh-ness. Now, just three short years later, the Malibu is all-new again, and this time, it sports a fresh look, fresh underpinnings, and fresh engines.
    http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2016-chevrolet-malibu-photos-and-info-news
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 12,120
    While the added wheelbase is a good thing, I don't believe I like the styling as much as the current car. I hate the "four door coupe" concept, where you konk your head if you don't duck getting into the back seat, but they're just jumping on that styling bandwagon.

    Personally, not mainstream is a plus to me. Never been much of a 'joiner'.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,194
    Just based upon that picture I can't say I find the styling attractive. Not unattractive either - just very bland. Kind of like the Ford Taurus chunky look. Of course I haven't seen other photos so perhaps other angles look better.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,194
    edited April 2015
    So talking about styling, and limiting to cars/sedans, here is what I'm thinking of current offerings just judging on appearance:

    Attractive: Kia, Hyundai, Ford, Mercedes, Audi, Mazda (a big shift IMHO), Tesla, Buick (also a shift IMHO)

    Bland: Toyota, Honda, Chevy, Chrysler, Subaru, Acura, BMW (but a rise from the Bangle look of a few years ago)

    Ugly: Mitsubishi, VW (Jetta), Nissan, Infiniti, Lexus
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 12,120
    edited April 2015
    For me, Chevy styling in the current Cruze, Malibu, and Impala is conservative and I like that. All have large wheel openings with the availability of tires and wheels that fill those wheel openings. I can't stand Ford's fish-mouth front-end styling of current models like the Fusion, and I dislike the taillights of the Fusion too. Nissan to me is particularly ugly in most models, and things seem to get worse with each new iteration of a model.
  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    Maybe it's just me, but looking at more of the rear profile shots of the Malibu makes me think a bit about a modern day take of a 47 or 48 Chrysler product where the rear glass kind of flows into the trunk. Not necessarily a bad thing, just interesting. Does make it a bit different than most current sedans. Makes me want to actually view this one in person because the different angle pictures give me different impressions.

    Tiong, gotta be honest, I don't find a lot of really good looking vehicles anymore. Most just more and more blend together, car or truck. So I guess I need to focus more on the interiors.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,194

    For me, Chevy styling in the current Cruze, Malibu, and Impala is conservative and I like that. All have large wheel openings with the availability of tires and wheels that fill those wheel openings. I can't stand Ford's fish-mouth front-end styling of current models like the Fusion, and I dislike the taillights of the Fusion too. Nissan to me is particularly ugly in most models, and things seem to get worse with each new iteration of a model.

    Good point - I forgot about the Fusion front end. I also dislike that. I do like the styling of the Focus and the Escape, which is where my attractive comment was directed. The Fusion is ok from the rear but not from the front. The other issue of course is that Ford's reliability (according to certain magazines) has gone from above average perhaps 5-7 years ago to worse than average. So I wouldn't actually be buying any of those vehicles even though I admire some of what they've done.

  • berriberri Posts: 10,166
    Saw a NBC news story on local news that prior gen Nissan Altima's are experiencing severe underbody rust. Wonder if this will be an issue down the road on newer model Nissan's. Too much cost cutting?
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    Muscle Car Wars

    So far in 2015, one of the three pony car competitors has been killing its rivals, outselling the other two combined in March.

    Chevy Camaro
    March 2015 Sales: 5,956 -30.9%

    2015 Sales (Jan-Mar): 17,320

    Dodge Challenger
    March 2015 Sales: 6,110 +25.2%

    2015 Sales (Jan-Mar): 15,957


    Ford Mustang
    March 2015 Sales: 12,663 +36.1%

    2015 Sales (Jan-Mar): 29,811 +52.1%

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/06/gm-ignition-switch-death-toll-rises-80/
    Throughout Congressional hearings devoted to GM's handling of the crisis, CEO Mary Barra stood by the company's position the ignition-switch defect had contributed to 13 deaths. When Reuters reported the number of deaths was at least 74 last June, GM stuck to its original figure.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,194
    circlew said:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/06/gm-ignition-switch-death-toll-rises-80/

    Throughout Congressional hearings devoted to GM's handling of the crisis, CEO Mary Barra stood by the company's position the ignition-switch defect had contributed to 13 deaths. When Reuters reported the number of deaths was at least 74 last June, GM stuck to its original figure.
    They probably hold to their original number on advice from lawyers. I suspect they are wanting to limit liability and they do that by not confessing to even more deaths.

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