U.S. Auto Market News and Reviews

stever

Just cut to the chase and get some inflatable seat belts. All the benefits of seat belts with added cushioning. (Consumer Reports)

circlew

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/05/21/us-dot-extends-gm-supervision-another-year/

"GM learned a hard lesson last year. We expect to see the improvements they've made continue and that their new approaches are applied to every GM safety issue and every recall. Today's action will help keep them on the right track," US Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx said in the announcement.

andres3

Hopefully that extended oversight will help with some fellow member regular posters to these Edmunds' forums.

I won't name names, but there are reports of a recent new model Cadillac CTS having repeated and random loss of power steering (along with noises and vibrations), as well as simply stalling out while driving for no apparent reason.

Worse than the fact this is a virtually brand new GM vehicle having these safety related and warranty issues; the report is that the customer service "blows" for lack of a better word. In summary; they are not standing behind the product.

I don't believe this to be anecdotal or a coincidence; it is a fact; the last time I experienced power steering failure while driving down the road???? You guessed it; the US branded Dodge Neon. This is why I associate all of the Big 3 into the same pile of manure.

uplanderguy

It's good that you've been happy with your Audi, but the same kind of 'collected information' people espouse on here all the time, has often painted a less-than-rosy picture of Audi quality/reliability.

BTW, it is stunning how many second-gen Neons I still see daily here in rusty NE Ohio, considering I don't believe they were huge sellers.

suydam

Dodge and Cadillac -- two different companies. That's like saying you wouldn't buy a Honda because you had an issue with Nissan.

Michaell

uplanderguy said:

It's good that you've been happy with your Audi, but the same kind of 'collected information' people espouse on here all the time, has often painted a less-than-rosy picture of Audi quality/reliability.

And, the Audi owner has just recently reported a clunking or grinding noise from the DSG transmission when going into reverse.

Let's hope Audi stands behind their product. I know of another (former) Audi owner who had to replace the clutch on their A4 after only 10,000 miles - Audi, after much kicking and screaming from the owner, agreed to split the cost of the labor, but not after first blaming the owner and his wife for abusing the clutch to begin with.

With all these stories, I'm thinking my next car may not be a car, but a bicycle.

uplanderguy

The old cars weren't sophisticated, but they sure seemed a whole lot less fussy than the new iron. I guess this testimonial really belongs on one of Edmunds' old car forums.

Mr_Shiftright

Given how complex modern cars are, and the hostile environment in which the components operate (just try putting your wide screen TV in an engine compartment for a few days) , I'm surprised they operate as well as they do. They don't break as often as old cars but when they do, they break BIG.

Michaell

Mr_Shiftright said:

Given how complex modern cars are, and the hostile environment in which the components operate (just try putting your wide screen TV in an engine compartment for a few days) , I'm surprised they operate as well as they do. They don't break as often as old cars but when they do, they break BIG.

Agreed .. and, for those who think Hondas never break, take a look at this new discussion thread:

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/34525/honda/odyssey/anyone-else-seeing-everything-breakdown-within-4-years-of-purchase#latest

andres3

Michaell said:

uplanderguy said:

It's good that you've been happy with your Audi, but the same kind of 'collected information' people espouse on here all the time, has often painted a less-than-rosy picture of Audi quality/reliability.

And, the Audi owner has just recently reported a clunking or grinding noise from the DSG transmission when going into reverse.

Let's hope Audi stands behind their product. I know of another (former) Audi owner who had to replace the clutch on their A4 after only 10,000 miles - Audi, after much kicking and screaming from the owner, agreed to split the cost of the labor, but not after first blaming the owner and his wife for abusing the clutch to begin with.

With all these stories, I'm thinking my next car may not be a car, but a bicycle.

Now now.... let's put that clunking grinding noise/vibration into perspective. It's happened 2 times for sure, maybe 3. How many times have I started the car and gone into reverse? Let's assume 2/day being conservative as I'm sure it's far more then that. I've had the car for a year and half, that's about 550 days, so let's say 1,100 times I've put it in reverse. Having something happen about 0.2% of the time is certainly hard to repeat. Granted, I think all of them happened in the last 3 or 4 months, but still. Am I concerned; yes. Am I worried; not yet. If something is wrong, I wish it would just fail repeatedly and predictably. If I can't get the problem to be repeatable say 1 out of every 20 starts I'm probably wasting my time worrying about it.

Clutches are wearable items; understandable that there would be an argument about that. Audi is very stingey when it comes to wear items; even under there usual 1 year 12,000 mile warranty for wear items. There is no understanding an argument in regards to a car's power steering FAILING and a car's function FAILING (stalling out).

My car goes into reverse, and functions; though rather roughly 0.2% of the time. This 0.2% bad shift rate into reverse might cause it to last 200K miles instead of 300K,miles; who knows? Maybe it's just a parking brake problem?

Lastly, Americans are known by the Germans to be pathetic when it comes to shifting manual transmissions properly; so they have deep substantiated suspicions of driver error in the US. All that being said; they should STILL Give the Customer the benefit of the doubt and assume they are right; at least for the first clutch. Remember when Audi got blamed for Unintended Acceleration? None of those were found to be legit.

andres3

suydam said:

Dodge and Cadillac -- two different companies. That's like saying you wouldn't buy a Honda because you had an issue with Nissan.

There is some truth to what you say, but GM and Chrysler have many of the same types of complaints, use the same UAW labor, and made many of the same mistakes. I've heard customer service horror stories about both GM and Ford from friends and extended family. They remind me of my Chrysler experience when I hear them; it's like Deja Vu.

I think Audi has some bad apples in the Farm. They need to find the rotten apples that believe burning customers is better than dealing with the problems, and eliminate them from the payroll. However, one can't deny that Audi has done very well overall in Consumer Reports for the last decade or so. I had an excellent experience with my A3 for nearly 8 years and over 106,000 miles. I would say my S4 has been excellent as well the first 24K miles. Only tow truck it needed was due to American labor that can't competently install a coolant hose after an accident.

On one hand GG hasn't fully 100% needed a tow truck yet. On the other, Dodge was able to fix my problems; almost 100% of the time on the first attempt; and repeat failures were rare. The problem was the car had infinite different parts that would all fail once. Perhaps Cadillac's usually are reliable, and that is why they don't know how to fix it. In contrast; Dodge's service bay technicians probably replaced more head gaskets and auto transmission on Neon's than a fast food worker makes burgers.

Michaell

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

uplanderguy said:

It's good that you've been happy with your Audi, but the same kind of 'collected information' people espouse on here all the time, has often painted a less-than-rosy picture of Audi quality/reliability.

And, the Audi owner has just recently reported a clunking or grinding noise from the DSG transmission when going into reverse.

Let's hope Audi stands behind their product. I know of another (former) Audi owner who had to replace the clutch on their A4 after only 10,000 miles - Audi, after much kicking and screaming from the owner, agreed to split the cost of the labor, but not after first blaming the owner and his wife for abusing the clutch to begin with.

With all these stories, I'm thinking my next car may not be a car, but a bicycle.

Now now.... let's put that clunking grinding noise/vibration into perspective. It's happened 2 times for sure, maybe 3. How many times have I started the car and gone into reverse? Let's assume 2/day being conservative as I'm sure it's far more then that. I've had the car for a year and half, that's about 550 days, so let's say 1,100 times I've put it in reverse. Having something happen about 0.2% of the time is certainly hard to repeat. Granted, I think all of them happened in the last 3 or 4 months, but still. Am I concerned; yes. Am I worried; not yet. If something is wrong, I wish it would just fail repeatedly and predictably. If I can't get the problem to be repeatable say 1 out of every 20 starts I'm probably wasting my time worrying about it.

Clutches are wearable items; understandable that there would be an argument about that. Audi is very stingey when it comes to wear items; even under there usual 1 year 12,000 mile warranty for wear items. There is no understanding an argument in regards to a car's power steering FAILING and a car's function FAILING (stalling out).

My car goes into reverse, and functions; though rather roughly 0.2% of the time. This 0.2% bad shift rate into reverse might cause it to last 200K miles instead of 300K,miles; who knows? Maybe it's just a parking brake problem?

Lastly, Americans are known by the Germans to be pathetic when it comes to shifting manual transmissions properly; so they have deep substantiated suspicions of driver error in the US. All that being said; they should STILL Give the Customer the benefit of the doubt and assume they are right; at least for the first clutch. Remember when Audi got blamed for Unintended Acceleration? None of those were found to be legit.

Fair enough on the reverse issues you're having.

And, for the record, the Audi with the burnt out clutch was owned by a Canadian .. do Germans have the same attitude about driving skills towards our friends north of the border?

circlew

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/may/23/general-motors-faces-huge-fine-over-criminal-ignition-defects-reports

US justice department investigators have identified criminal wrongdoing in General Motors’ failure to disclose a defective ignition switch, and they are negotiating what is expected to be a record penalty.

andres3

Nobody seems to have a perfect record anymore. However, my wife's Civic is now over 8 years old with over 70K miles and the worst I can do is complain it is on its 3rd battery. She can't remember where she bought the second battery, but Wal-Mart is the chief suspect.

Audi's are definitely more expensive to maintain than Honda's, but in my experience I've been lucky enough with Audi's that they are similarly ultra reliable. If I take my Accord out of the equation; Honda wins with my wife's last 2 Civics. As stated above, none of these have ever had power steering and/or stalling failures.

uplanderguy

My Cobalts are very easy on batteries--the car I bought new in May '08 has just under 90K on the original battery and it still tests well--original clutch too BTW-- and my '09 bought used has 67K miles on what I believe is the original battery. I can only assume that having the battery in the trunk, instead of the usual under-the-hood, has prolonged battery life.

andres3

uplanderguy said:

My Cobalts are very easy on batteries--the car I bought new in May '08 has just under 90K on the original battery and it still tests well--original clutch too BTW-- and my '09 bought used has 67K miles on what I believe is the original battery. I can only assume that having the battery in the trunk, instead of the usual under-the-hood, has prolonged battery life.

Then my Audi S4's placement of the battery below the spare tire in the trunk should provide me with a long service life!

circlew

The 2008 CR-V just turned 90K and only one battery replacement....oh, and changed the brake pads at 69K.

This is by far the cheapest car and most reliable I've ever owned....used to buy GM and Ford....

uplanderguy

I simply could not have bought less expensively, or owned a more reliable car, than my Cobalt. Period. I have no reason to switch. The fact that it was built down the road--not a single negative there, either.

My in-laws from FL just bought a new RAV-4 at our local dealer while they were up here, amazingly. I went with them. I felt a difference in shopping for a Toyota versus my last buying a new Chevy in 2011. For one, sticker is it. Take it or lump it. Secondly, in a RAV4 anyway, the U.S./Canadian content percentage is less than the model of Chevys I tend to look at--and I've bemoaned that their U.S. content has gone down in the past few years.

BTW, for those who buy into Consumer Reports, their latest issue on newsstands shows my wife's Malibu as a best-buy for price/reliability in used cars...enough that they show a photo of it. 57K miles on original brakes so far. Original battery too.

stever

Florida is locked up by SouthEast Toyota and they (and Gulf States) charge extra fees. If I lived down there, I'd either go to TN to buy or just not drive a Toyota.

uplanderguy

It's funny you say that about SouthEast Toyota. My in-laws were told that a Toyota could be bought for less and shipped to FL than they could buy there. That's what they did.

imidazol97

I'm driving my Cobalt while son is in Colorado on first business trip for training. It's
great. 2008. It's different than the Cruze LT I had as loaner a few months back. There
was a sophistication to the Cruze's ride. The Cobalt is simply nice to drive.

Replaced battery in 2014 fall just as prophylactic measure to prevent trouble starting
a car that might sit for a week during the last semester. Original battery was just as
good as the replacement from Autozone. Original brakes at 68K.

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

For one, sticker is it. Take it or lump it. Secondly, in a RAV4 anyway, the U.S./Canadian content percentage is less than the model of Chevys I tend to look at--and I've bemoaned that their U.S. content has gone down in the past few years.

My last experiences at Honda and toyota were sticker Plus Plus for the privilege of
buying a foreign car from them. I think they thought I would be dumb enough to
pay that. They see snow on the roof and think the mind is slow. LOL

circlew

My wife's CX-9 has been flawless as well as the CR-V. The last GM SUV I experienced was the antithesis of reliability.

I do appreciate the current CEO was woman enough to admit the "crappy car" truth, however. Far more up fron than "The Mark of Excellence" koolaid!

suydam

I've never paid sticker at either Honda or Toyota. But they do not tend to have the deep discounts like I got on my Buick or my son on his Impala because they hold resale value so well. Since midsize cars aren't selling as well now, Honda, Toyota, and Nissan are chasing each other for sales and I am sure there will be good late summer discounts.

tlong

imidazol97 said:

uplanderguy said:

For one, sticker is it. Take it or lump it. Secondly, in a RAV4 anyway, the U.S./Canadian content percentage is less than the model of Chevys I tend to look at--and I've bemoaned that their U.S. content has gone down in the past few years.

My last experiences at Honda and toyota were sticker Plus Plus for the privilege of
buying a foreign car from them. I think they thought I would be dumb enough to
pay that. They see snow on the roof and think the mind is slow. LOL

To be fair, I don't think the privilege is "buing a foreign car" per se. It's supply and demand, and demand tends to favor foreign nameplates. There are scummy dealers from all brands and whenever a vehicle is in high demand/short supply you see the price increases. I believe the PT Cruiser was sold above sticker for quite a while when it first came out for the very same reasons. And should GM have a high demand vehicle then you would undoubtedly see it happen there, too.

imidazol97

tlong said:

And should GM have a high demand vehicle then you would undoubtedly see it happen there, too.

Oh I think you're right. It's a sales attitude on the part of the salesfolk that they are
selling something special and in short supply. I don't care to be talked down to by
a salesman who in THAT CASE treated me like I was early dementia example and
should just cow tow to his beliefs. He wouldn't let me just look at the darn car in
the showroom; he stayed at my side talking, asking questions, and pestering me.

Converse was the Honda salesperson who said if I needed anything he'd be in the
general area and to have fun lookin'. And I enjoyed my browsing the showroom at
that particular store.

berri

Paid list for an RAV4? Sorry to say, but I'm afraid your buddy got hosed Uplander. You can pretty much get a discount on a CRV, let alone a RAV4, at many dealers. He should have driven over to Akron or Cleveland. Heck, the CRV outsells it and pretty much beats the RAV4 in most comparisons. The exception is probably those often overpriced Southeast Toyota markets like Florida where that wholesaler has a lock on the dealership product.

circlew

Seems the CR-V is still at the top!

Our panel of judges — experts and a family who's shopping for such a vehicle — picked the Honda CR-V as tops in all-around appeal because of its combination of features and driving feel.

Honda's CR-V, for example, is the best-selling SUV of any kind in the U.S., and the brand's money machine.

CR-V generated $2 billion in revenue the first quarter, 26% of Honda's total revenue, calculates John Krafcik, president of researcher TrueCar.

CR-V also sold for a higher average price than other popular Hondas — $27,239 in the quarter, vs. Accord's average $25,422 and Civic's $20,078, says Krafcik.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/05/26/challenge-picks-best-compact-suv-for-28000/27806149/

circlew

According to Gasbuddy.com (see graph at bottom), gasoline prices are down to a national average of $2.75 per gallon. One year ago for the week of Memorial Day, prices were at $3.75 per gallon, and for the same week two years ago prices were $3.70 per gallon.

Ten years ago, price were at $2.17 per gallon, and fifteen years ago at $1.57.

Memorial Day Weekly Average
Gasoline Price
29-May-00 $1.57
28-May-01 $1.74
27-May-02 $1.43
26-May-03 $1.53
31-May-04 $2.10
30-May-05 $2.17
29-May-06 $2.94
28-May-07 $3.25
26-May-08 $3.99
25-May-09 $2.49
31-May-10 $2.84
30-May-11 $3.90
28-May-12 $3.73
27-May-13 $3.70
26-May-14 $3.75
25-May-15 $2.75

Michaell

circlew said:

According to Gasbuddy.com (see graph at bottom), gasoline prices are down to a national average of $2.75 per gallon. One year ago for the week of Memorial Day, prices were at $3.75 per gallon, and for the same week two years ago prices were $3.70 per gallon.

Ten years ago, price were at $2.17 per gallon, and fifteen years ago at $1.57.

Memorial Day Weekly Average
Gasoline Price
29-May-00 $1.57
28-May-01 $1.74
27-May-02 $1.43
26-May-03 $1.53
31-May-04 $2.10
30-May-05 $2.17
29-May-06 $2.94
28-May-07 $3.25
26-May-08 $3.99
25-May-09 $2.49
31-May-10 $2.84
30-May-11 $3.90
28-May-12 $3.73
27-May-13 $3.70
26-May-14 $3.75
25-May-15 $2.75

Are those numbers adjusted for inflation?

uplanderguy

imidazol, I have found that people are surprised in my car, about idle smoothness and silence and also the absence of tire/road noise at highway speeds. Both our Cobalts are actually quieter than our Malibu in that latter regard, and also quieter than my friend's "new", used Jag!

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

imidazol, I have found that people are surprised in my car, about idle smoothness and silence and also the absence of tire/road noise at highway speeds. Both our Cobalts are actually quieter than our Malibu in that latter regard, and also quieter than my friend's "new", used Jag!

About the reliability and quality of all other cars, I read a story today about a CR-V someone traded in that says a 150K mi CR-v was worth $1700 on trade and described it as "They gave her $1700 for her 150k-mile CRV that has no headlights, bad wheel bearings, and an engine apparently so far gone that her mechanic told her "don't come back with this car again."

Only 150K mi? I have my current 03 leSabre at almost 200K and drives great, runs, great. Smooth controlled ride. No one certainly tells me the engine is shot at 150K. Instead they talk about leSabres going 300K with proper maintenance.

Since people usually generalize that all Hondas are great, I'm disappointed that someone let the cat out of the bag. She traded it for a RAV!!!

EDIT, To complete my point, it seems like all cars have some problems. There's a lot of legacy good will for
certain car brands. But they all put their wheels on one lug nut at a time. LOL

uplanderguy

Berri, they opted to lease and the dealer is shipping the car to FL free.

The dealer is a big dealer and advertises heavily in the Cleveland and Akron markets. My father-in-law had met him and his daughter at a get-together in FL and amazingly, both were in the dealership building when I took my in-laws over just to browse at RAV-4's. Mother-in-law is a short lady and liked the seating position. I have a natural aversion to SUV's and also uber-popular mainstream mobiles.

stever

Self-Driving Vehicles May Cut Auto Sales by 40 Percent, Study Says

circlew

Are those numbers adjusted for inflation?

No inflation adjustment. Just the price at that time.

circlew

Just researched 2 CR-V's with 100K...asking price $12,000. One '07 and one '09.

Then there's the '02 with 199,000 miles for $4,950. Also a 2005 for $7,900 with 197,415 miles...or an '06 for $6,995 with 195,391.

berri

Buying a used CRV almost doesn't make any sense!

berri

Uplander - getting the car shipped to FL by the dealer in the deal makes sense. Last time we moved, the biggest hassle was lining up a carrier for our second car and I believe it cost over a grand. After finding a truck, we actually had to send it out ahead almost a month ahead to make sure it was picked up before our moving van came. It was a summer move and the moving van wasn't going to have room for it. It is not that easy to line up an individual motor car carrier service, despite all the promises the brokers made. Ended up finding one and contracting it myself directly (and that was cheaper and more reliable than the vague broker deals we were being quoted).

imidazol97

We've all been treated to stories of self-driving cars for 60 years and more courtesy Popular Science and other magazines.

Here's a video of self parking by Volvo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8nnhUCtcO8

I laugh at how the excuses for how the car failed and hit the journalists.
It starts even in the title.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/selfparking-volvo-plows-into-journalists-after-owner-neglects-to-pay-for-extra-feature-that-stops-cars-crashing-into-people-10277203.html

andres3

Whats funny about that Volvo video is that it shows some dealerships and sale people don't know anything about their product.

imidazol97

andres3 said:

Whats funny about that Volvo video is that it shows some dealerships and sale people don't know anything about their product.

That's a good point. Of course, many car buyers who are knowledgeable about the ins and outs
of a vehicle they're shopping quickly learn that sales people often don't know as much as
they should about a particular model and option requirements and add ons.

uplanderguy

I know nothing about used CR-V prices, but I do think everyone on this board knows that there is a large difference between trade-in values offered and asking prices, particularly asking prices at a dealership, where I've heard they make more on used cars than new ones. Comparing one to the other doesn't prove much IMHO.

stever

Seems like you're better off buying a new CR-V than one that's two or three years old. Some of the asking prices are crazy.

Always heard that about used cars and profit too but that depends on the dealership.

circlew

Going backward, as usual!

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/05/fca-us-reducing-powertrain-warranty-to-60k-miles-for-2016-models/

Following changes already made by competitors, FCA US is adjusting powertrain warranty coverage for 2016 model year vehicles to be more consistent with industry practices. For 2016MY, Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge and Ram Truck vehicles with gasoline engines will be covered by a 5-year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty.

The move follows General Motors’ decision in March 2015 to cut-down its 5-year/100,000-mile powertrain warranty for its Chevrolet and GMC products to a 5-year/60,000-mile policy.

circlew

U.S. Midsize Car Volume Is Down 4% In 2015 – Camry Growing Its Lead

U.S. sales of midsize cars tumbled 7% during the month of April and are down 4% through the first four months of 2015.

On the whole, America’s appetite for passenger cars is in decline. Overall demand for cars is slightly south of flat in the early part of this year even as the auto industry posted 5% year-over-year expansion between January and April.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/05/u-s-midsize-car-volume-4-2015-camry-growing-lead/

uplanderguy

I know it's unfair, but I have a friend in the Studebaker hobby who says that buying a Camry is evidence "you've given up on life".

uplanderguy

Backwards...to what most other manufacturers have always warrantied.

I do regret this, though, as it's a perception problem I think.

stever

I had one new 4 door sedan in '82 - couldn't afford the AWD hatch version. Only saving grace was the pass through rear seats for my skis and paddles.

Going to be living with a loaner (compact) sedan for a couple of months, but can't see it really growing on me. It arrives today.

Why get a "car" when a wagon or crossover or even a smaller SUV can get about the same mpg and has more utility?

henryn

I see the Passat continues to fall like a rock.

andres3

uplanderguy said:

Backwards...to what most other manufacturers have always warrantied.

I do regret this, though, as it's a perception problem I think.

Most definitely, since the Big 3 have a history of having a culture of corruption within their ranks, people will rightfully think that they have engineers and designers already plotting and calculating deviously how to save money using cheaper less durable and less reliable parts since they won't have to worry about it past the shorter warranty.

It's a trust AND perception thing. I trust Honda isn't trying to make or design parts that are meant to fail immediately after the warranty period ends. At Chrysler.... I'm CERTAIN they do.