U.S. Auto Market News and Reviews

imidazol97

Most common honda problems:

http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/takata/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/excessive-oil-consumption/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/uncomfortable-seats/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/tpms/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/airbags/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/civic-hybrid-mpg/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/peeling-paint/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/accord-brake-wear/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/fit-bumper/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/soft-brakes/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/

http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/

imidazol97

Haven't checked toyota yet. Interesting websites out there.

tlong

imidazol97 said:

Most common honda problems:

http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/takata/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/excessive-oil-consumption/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/uncomfortable-seats/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/tpms/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/airbags/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/civic-hybrid-mpg/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/peeling-paint/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/accord-brake-wear/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/fit-bumper/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/soft-brakes/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/

http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/

Wouldn't we be able to find that sort of list (details varying by make) for almost any major auto manufacturer?

imidazol97

tlong said:

Wouldn't we be able to find that sort of list (details varying by make) for almost any major auto manufacturer?

Yes. I had put a statement at the end of one of the two posts that "All cars have some
problems." I must not have done the edit right and it didn't show up on the post
with the actual active links in it. Or Edmund's site failed--my money is on the
I forgot to click it to post it before going on! LOL

My problem is that some people have mono vision and only talk about howtheir target
brand or favorite target group has problems. They overlook all the problems
accumulated by certain brands where the public belief about reliability far
exceeds the true experience.

All cars put their wheels on one lugnut at a time and they buy
their parts from shared manufacturers in most cases, like Takata
in this case, with the airbags.

Have a great day.

uplanderguy

Yesterday, at an exit ramp on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, I saw an Accord where a ball joint had obviously snapped, leaving the tire and wheel just leaning up against the car. It's been probably eight or nine months, but I saw one like that where I live too. Now that's not a big sample, but the last two I've seen were Accords--probably ten or so years old; I don't know Accord generation styling. That looks like a catastrophic failure to my eyes. I can't remember another instance of seeing that on another kind of car.

To be fair, they weren't recent-generation cars. But I can tell you, I don't know anyone who has had a runaway Cobalt due to the ignition-switch fiasco (and it is a fiasco).

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

...I saw an Accord where a ball joint had obviously snapped, leaving the tire and wheel just leaning up against the car. ... That looks like a catastrophic failure to my eyes. I can't remember another instance of seeing that on another kind of car.

The last 2 with front wheel disconnect, front suspension failure, have been Hondas for me as well. I don't think I've seen another brand. Luckily those seem to happen at low speed in the cases I saw. I can only imagine
what it's like to feel the front end drop and lose control of steering. In fact, quite a few of the cars sitting along the roadside dead have been various Honda models, many looking fairly old and beaten up. Number out of proportion
to the numbers on the road. Of course, I'm sure those were all just out-of-gas. LOL

uplanderguy

People like to kid about my beloved Studebaker using king pins right up to the end (hey, Corvettes had them up until the '63), but they didn't do this kind of thing like ball joints can.

tlong

uplanderguy said:

Yesterday, at an exit ramp on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, I saw an Accord where a ball joint had obviously snapped, leaving the tire and wheel just leaning up against the car. It's been probably eight or nine months, but I saw one like that where I live too. Now that's not a big sample, but the last two I've seen were Accords--probably ten or so years old; I don't know Accord generation styling. That looks like a catastrophic failure to my eyes. I can't remember another instance of seeing that on another kind of car.

To be fair, they weren't recent-generation cars. But I can tell you, I don't know anyone who has had a runaway Cobalt due to the ignition-switch fiasco (and it is a fiasco).

I actually had that happen to my VW Beetle way back in the day (air cooled version). Yet I never did see or hear that being a problem with that model. It happened to me going real slow around a corner. It frightened me what could have happened if it occurred at higher speeds.

andres3

imidazol97 said:

Most common honda problems:

http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/takata/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/excessive-oil-consumption/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/uncomfortable-seats/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/tpms/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/airbags/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/civic-hybrid-mpg/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/peeling-paint/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/accord-brake-wear/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/fit-bumper/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/soft-brakes/
http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/

http://www.hondaproblems.com/trends/


Amazing, Air conditioners and Automatic transmissions aren't on that list above

andres3

circlew said:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-still-working-to-overhaul-internal-culture-88403.html

Some executives had blamed lower-level employees for failing to communicate safety issues with higher-level managers. Details of the ignition-switch debacle contradict the claim, however, as engineers apparently designed a safer switch in 2001 but the defective component was preferred by upper-level decision makers due to cost considerations.

Critics suggest that GM will face a difficult time attempting to change corporate culture without purging the ranks. The company has recalled millions of vehicles and payed compensation claims for at least 97 deaths blamed on the defective ignition switches, however only 15 employees were ousted due to their roles in the fiasco.

Well, I suppose the lower level managers should have gone shouting to 60 Minutes that the higher ups were choosing 5 cents per part savings over lives.

tlong

imidazol97 said:

tlong said:

Wouldn't we be able to find that sort of list (details varying by make) for almost any major auto manufacturer?

...
My problem is that some people have mono vision and only talk about howtheir target
brand or favorite target group has problems. They overlook all the problems
accumulated by certain brands where the public belief about reliability far
exceeds the true experience.

...

I keep hearing that argument, but is there actually somebody on these forums who has tried to claim that an entire target group/make has no problems? I've seen that statement about individual vehicles (which makes sense) but I don't see anybody saying an entire brand has no problems. Perhaps I have missed it.

andres3

anytime I've said Honda and Toyota has made flawless vehicles, I mean individual vehicles, not all Accords ever made. My parents and brother have had a few of those flawless Toyotas.

circlew

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/05/07/consumer-reports-cars-over-200000-miles/70956532/

Here's the list of cars most likely to hit 200,000 miles:

•Toyota Prius

•Toyota Camry, with a four-cylinder engine

• Honda Odyssey

• Honda Pilot

•Toyota Corolla

• Honda Accord sedan, also with a four-cylinder engine

• Honda CR-V

•Toyota Sienna

•Toyota Highlander

• Honda Civic, but not the hybrid, Si or GX

circlew

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/05/08/toyota-global-net-income/26968399/

Toyota saw its global net income zoom 19.2% to $19.8 billion during its fiscal year compared to the previous year, and expects another year of record profits.

uplanderguy

I'm personally surprised to see the Odyssey on that list, based on the experience of a coworker with his 2005 and the many things written online about them by owners. Admittedly, complainers tend to be the ones to write most.

tlong

uplanderguy said:

I'm personally surprised to see the Odyssey on that list, based on the experience of a coworker with his 2005 and the many things written online about them by owners. Admittedly, complainers tend to be the ones to write most.

I think the reality is that cars/vehicles that are "bad" - something like 60% could make it to 150K without major issues. Vehicles that are "good" - something like 90% of them could make it to 150K without major issues. I'm of course making up those numbers but I suspect if you really could get all the data you would find something of that nature.

So if you had a "bad" vehicle you still would likely have a good experience to tell about. And plenty of those vehicles still can make it to 200K. The difference is that almost all "good" vehicles can go high mileages with few of them having major issues. But those "Good" vehicles still can have major problems, and "bad" vehicles still often last a long time without major trouble.

That's why our single anecdotal stories are not really sufficient to evaluate a make or model. You really need some statistics for that.

uplanderguy

I'm a 'show me' guy. If my experiences, or those I'm around frequently, don't mirror the 'statistics', then I'm not all that interested in the statistics.

uplanderguy

You heard it here...this week in Camp Hill, PA, on three occasions I saw recent CR-V's in a light aqua-blue color. Although the vehicle(s) did absolutely nothing for me, the color turned my head each time. I'm very tired of earth tones, white, silver, black, and maroon.

berri

AMEN Uplander!

imidazol97

I was thinking the same thing when I saw this 65 Mustang with that blue
interior today. Better than black. Plus I like this masculine blue on Mustangs.
I posted a newer convertible recently with black top in similar blue.

Colors on 1st two are off. My camera was set wrong and washed out, so I
had to PaintShopPro to try to salvage pic. Last was shot with Android camera
and on shadow side from sun.

berri

Those two tone seats are a nice sporty touch. Today you see a new Mustang. or whatever from wherever, and then you get to the seats - blah looking plain black, grey or tan. Kind of takes away the excitement from the rest of the design.

tlong

uplanderguy said:

I'm a 'show me' guy. If my experiences, or those I'm around frequently, don't mirror the 'statistics', then I'm not all that interested in the statistics.

I guess that's the difference between my profession (I'm a scientist by training) and your profession (an accountant if I recall?)

tlong

uplanderguy said:

You heard it here...this week in Camp Hill, PA, on three occasions I saw recent CR-V's in a light aqua-blue color. Although the vehicle(s) did absolutely nothing for me, the color turned my head each time. I'm very tired of earth tones, white, silver, black, and maroon.

Wow!

Seriously, I've noticed two trends/items regarding car colors:

1 - In Europe the current car color palettes are much broader and brighter than the very conservative blacks, whites, and silvers common in the USA.
2 - Over the past 30 years or so the US colors have gotten way more subdued. In the '70's there were tons of reds, yellows, greens, etc. on cars. Today you almost never see a yellow and the greens are almost all very subdued metallics.

uplanderguy

tlong, my degree is in Accounting and I am an auditor by trade for most of the 35 years I've worked post-college.

I blame the race to copy the imports as the reason the broad color choices, inside and out, of American brands have gone away the past 25 or more years.

Those white inserts on the Mustang's seats--I like that! By '65 two-tone vinyl inside was becoming passe' I think, but I like it. On '63 Studebakers, of which I used to own one, white inserts were standard on vinyl interiors and 'matching inserts' as they called it, was optional at no extra cost. My white car had the all-red interior with 'matching inserts' and I always thought I'd have preferred it with the standard white inserts.

fushigi

When it comes to cars I will also value personal & local experiences/observations over industry statistical data (which tends to not be localized). There are some valid reasons for doing so. For instance, I live in the midwestern snow belt so info about a car's ability to withstand road salt (used in winter) w/out rusting is more important than engine performance/reliability at high altitude or under death valley-like high temps. Likewise I live in the suburbs; "city" gas mileage rarely applies as the distance between stops is longer & average speed is a bit higher. A few years ago when I drove 23 non-highway miles each way for my commute I got highway-average MPG.

uplanderguy

Lots of news recently about expansion of the Takata recalls. It appears that GM and Ford might not use Takata parts.

On an unrelated topic, I saw recent news about the new '16 Camaro. While I didn't put pics of a '15 and '16 next to each other, to say I'm underwhelmed is an understatement.

Say what you will about the '70's, but a redesign was truly a redesign...or at least a serious restyling.

tlong

uplanderguy said:

Lots of news recently about expansion of the Takata recalls. It appears that GM and Ford might not use Takata parts.

On an unrelated topic, I saw recent news about the new '16 Camaro. While I didn't put pics of a '15 and '16 next to each other, to say I'm underwhelmed is an understatement.

Say what you will about the '70's, but a redesign was truly a redesign...or at least a serious restyling.

I'm not a real fan of any of those sporty cars anyway. I had a rental Mustang and was underwhelmed.
I did like the looks of the Camero (not sure what years but I would see them around the early '80s). The rear sloped down and the tail lights were kind of wedge-shaped. I thought that was a nice looking car but the current models don't look anything like that.

andres3

tlong said:

uplanderguy said:

Lots of news recently about expansion of the Takata recalls. It appears that GM and Ford might not use Takata parts.

On an unrelated topic, I saw recent news about the new '16 Camaro. While I didn't put pics of a '15 and '16 next to each other, to say I'm underwhelmed is an understatement.

Say what you will about the '70's, but a redesign was truly a redesign...or at least a serious restyling.

I'm not a real fan of any of those sporty cars anyway. I had a rental Mustang and was underwhelmed.
I did like the looks of the Camero (not sure what years but I would see them around the early '80s). The rear sloped down and the tail lights were kind of wedge-shaped. I thought that was a nice looking car but the current models don't look anything like that.

Was your rental Mustang the new EcoTurbo model?

My last Mustang rental was the usual V6 in convertible form. I never even lowered the roof while I had it.
While not the powerless V6 of old, it was still overwhelmed by the sheer weight of the vehicle. Same experience in a rental Camaro, although with 20" rims and tires it handled pretty good (RS model). Brakes and engine power were lacking of course since it wasn't an SS.

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

Lots of news recently about expansion of the Takata recalls. It appears that GM and Ford might not use Takata parts.

33 million now recalled in just the US!!!! So much for reliability!
Doubled recall in size. Lots of cars unsafe.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/05/19/millions-of-defective-air-bags-to-trigger-largest-recall-in-u-s-history/

andres3

imidazol97 said:

uplanderguy said:

Lots of news recently about expansion of the Takata recalls. It appears that GM and Ford might not use Takata parts.

33 million now recalled in just the US!!!! So much for reliability!
Doubled recall in size. Lots of cars unsafe.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/05/19/millions-of-defective-air-bags-to-trigger-largest-recall-in-u-s-history/

Unsafe.... no, that's the wrong word. Airbags are a passive safety system, meaning they usually are not required in daily driving, nor in your "typical" auto accident. It takes a moderate to severe frontal collision to activate the front airbags.

Also, the airbags are not the only safety system in your vehicle. Having them not go off when they should is a bummer, but it shouldn't cause your accident involvement rate to go up one iota.

uplanderguy

I've said this before, but with two Cobalts and another driven by my daughter's boyfriend, none of us felt compelled to even take the free rentals offered by GM. As much talk is out there about most manufacturers using the same suppliers, it appears that neither Ford nor GM use(d) the Japanese supplier, Takata.

Again, the thing that makes me feel scared driving is every...single....night seeing cars without any lights on at all. Every car should have automatic headlights, or at a minimum daytime running lights, as even my bare-boned cars have had for over a decade.

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

I've said this before, but with two Cobalts and another driven by my daughter's boyfriend, none of us felt compelled to even take the free rentals offered by GM. As much talk is out there about most manufacturers using the same suppliers, it appears that neither Ford nor GM use(d) the Japanese supplier, Takata.

Thank God none of my GM's have Takata problems.

uplanderguy said:

Again, the thing that makes me feel scared driving is every...single....night seeing cars without any lights on at all. Every car should have automatic headlights, or at a minimum daytime running lights, as even my bare-boned cars have had for over a decade.

I agree about the auto headlights. And even in the dark cloud rain some cars don't have the headlights come on due to low light. All cars should have the lights come on when the wipers are on like my leSabre.

circlew

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2015/05/general-motors-ignition-switch-death-toll-climbs-to-104/

uplanderguy

Any comment on the Takata recall, the biggest recall in history? Buehler? Buehler? As with the GM recall, I think it's a fairly sure thing the Takata numbers will rise. An effort at at least some balance is, as always, a good thing.

When I see one person post at least fifty posts over a period of time about the GM recall, and maybe one or two on the Takata, one's predisposition is oh-so apparent.

tlong

uplanderguy said:

Any comment on the Takata recall, the biggest recall in history? Buehler? Buehler? As with the GM recall, I think it's a fairly sure thing the Takata numbers will rise. An effort at at least some balance is, as always, a good thing.

When I see one person post at least fifty posts over a period of time about the GM recall, and maybe one or two on the Takata, one's predisposition is oh-so apparent.

To be fair, given the number of deaths with relatively many fewer affected vehicles, the GM key cylinder issue is far more dangerious than the Takata problem.
Also, we tend to talk about vehicle manufacturers, so even though Honda is disproportionately mentioned, THEY didn't design the faulty airbags. GM DID design the faulty ignition switches.

I think you'll find those are the main reasons why there have been more posts on the GM recall than the Takata recall.

stever

Takata has been tied to six deaths as of last month per Bloomberg.

That was before the recall number doubled - going to be tough getting all those recalls accomplished in a reasonable amount of time.

uplanderguy

GM's recall resulted in far more deaths; no one can logically dispute that. I do believe we'll see the Takata number rise. But I think any rational reviewer would have to come to the conclusion that when those who come out swinging, first, about American iron, insulting the intelligence of domestic buyers (and it has happened here, as you know) will naturally tend to be sheepish when the world's biggest recall includes their own make of Asian cars. It's human nature. I buy GM, but I can (and have) admitted here that it was a bad recall It would be nice to see at least a smidgen of the same regarding the Takata recall.

The Takata recall also hits home that not every manufacturer uses the same suppliers, and that Japanese makers tend to use more Japanese parts, generally, than domestic makers. This was proven again during the tsunami, when even domestic production of Japanese automobiles virtually was put on hold. Unpopular statement, but I think mostly true.

uplanderguy

Plus, I never bought the 'well, it's the supplier, not the manufacturer' line during recalls, even when it comes to domestics. The manufacturer, we assume, tests the supplier's product; the supplier's product is made to a manufacturer's specs, and the manufacturer approves it for use in their vehicles.

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

Any comment on the Takata recall, the biggest recall in history? Buehler? Buehler? As with the GM recall, I think it's a fairly sure thing the Takata numbers will rise. An effort at at least some balance is, as always, a good thing.

When I see one person post at least fifty posts over a period of time about the GM recall, and maybe one or two on the Takata, one's predisposition is oh-so apparent.

LOL.

I just heard a BMW owner speak on the news on radio at 7 AM about the extension of the Takata recall among lots of foreign brands. She was BLINDED by the airbag that went off. So much for reliability. I think it's a Fox Radio News station.

This too is sad.

imidazol97

stever said:

Takata has been tied to six deaths as of last month per Bloomberg.

I suspect there will be more injuries from defective airbags found as time goes on and more idiopathic
injuries from the airbag detonations get explained by the patient or the survivors of the faulty
equipment.

I see this as getting bigger. However, some of the media, mainstream and automotive, will try to mitigate the damage to their favorite brands in this case.

stever

I'm a bit surprised that Takata hasn't gone banko to reorganize. Big outfit with 35,000 employees and factories on four continents so I guess they'll be able to afford it.

My wife is going to Detroit today to help bring a Cruze to Las Cruces (a la Thelma and Louise, but no canyon jumping!). Don't remember what year Cruze her friend has, but the 2012s though the 2014s had Takata airbags in them.

imidazol97

stever said:

Don't remember what year Cruze her friend has, but the 2012s though the 2014s had Takata airbags in them.

I don't find any GM's on the list, supposedly updated now for the 33 million + other than the GM
Vibes that were built with toyota.

Is there another list?

andres3

uplanderguy said:

Plus, I never bought the 'well, it's the supplier, not the manufacturer' line during recalls, even when it comes to domestics. The manufacturer, we assume, tests the supplier's product; the supplier's product is made to a manufacturer's specs, and the manufacturer approves it for use in their vehicles.

I agree the manufacturer has responsibility for the quality of the suppliers they choose to use for "subcontracted out" parts. However, when these manufacturers pay Takata a lot of money to be experts on Air bags, they expect them to be experts, and to make quality products that meet specs. Takata gets to be rich from these large payments, and those payments should be expected to cover the risk of faulty parts, production, design, and assembly.

It appears no one got their monies worth from Takata; at least, until they make it right.

stever

imidazol97 said:

stever said:

Don't remember what year Cruze her friend has, but the 2012s though the 2014s had Takata airbags in them.

I don't find any GM's on the list, supposedly updated now for the 33 million + other than the GM
Vibes that were built with toyota.

Is there another list?

Sorry, neglected to post a link. That info was from Wikipedia and their link-cite is dead (hey, I was in a bit of a rush to do an airport run, so usual disclaimers about Wiki info. ).

That recall was from last year so maybe the news stories from the latest go-round have dropped GM (and Ford?) off the list.

imidazol97

The Wiki site says the Cruze airbags were recalled for an electrical problem,
rather than the airbag's turning itself into shrapnel.

Here's a list from a website, with the new ones added in italics and dated May 19.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-your-takata-air-bag-under-recall/

BMW:
2000 - 2005 3 Series Sedan
2000 - 2006 3 Series Coupe
2000 - 2005 3 Series Sports Wagon
2000 - 2006 3 Series Convertible
2001 - 2006 M3 Coupe
2001 - 2006 M3 Convertible

CHRYSLER:
2003 - 2008 Dodge Ram 1500
2005 - 2008 Dodge Ram 2500
2006 - 2008 Dodge Ram 3500
2006 - 2008 Dodge Ram 4500
2008 - Dodge Ram 5500
2005 - 2008 Dodge Durango
2005 - 2008 Dodge Dakota
2005 - 2008 Chrysler 300
2007 - 2008 Chrysler Aspen

FORD:
2004 - Ranger
2005 - 2006 GT
2005 - 2007 Mustang

GENERAL MOTORS:
2003 - 2005 Pontiac Vibe -- Added May 19: 2006 - 2007
2005 - Saab 9-2X

HONDA
2001 - 2007 Honda Accord
2001 - 2002 Honda Accord -- Added May 19: 2003 Honda Accord
2001 - 2005 Honda Civic -- Added May 19: 2006 Honda Civic
2002 - 2006 Honda CR-V
2003 - 2011 Honda Element
2002 - 2004 Honda Odyssey
2003 - 2007 Honda Pilot
2006 - Honda Ridgeline
2003 - 2006 Acura MDX
2002 - 2003 Acura TL/CL
2005 - Acura RL

MAZDA:
2003 - 2007 Mazda 6
2006 - 2007 Mazda Speed6
2004 - 2008 Mazda RX-8
2004 - 2005 MPV
2004 - B-Series Truck

MITSUBISHI:
2004 - 2005 Lancer
2006 - 2007 Raider

NISSAN:
2001 - 2003 Nissan Maxima
2001 - 2004 Nissan Pathfinder
2002 - 2004 Nissan Sentra
2001 - 2004 Infiniti I30/I35
2002 - 2003 Infiniti QX4
2003 - 2005 Infiniti FX35/FX45

SUBARU:
2003 - 2005 Baja
2003 - 2005 Legacy
2003 - 2005 Outback
2004 - 2005 Impreza

TOYOTA:
2002 - 2005 Lexus SC
2002 - 2005 Toyota Corolla -- Added May 19: 2006 - 2007 Toyota Corolla
2003 - 2005 Toyota Corolla Matrix -- Added May 19: 2006 - 2007 Toyota Corolla Matrix
2002 - 2005 Toyota Sequoia
2003 - 2005 Toyota Tundra

stever

So make it 33 million plus another 33,000 Chevys that were fixed because of different Tanaka air bag issues? (autogo.ca)

Big expensive mess any way you inflate it.

imidazol97

stever said:

So make it 33 million plus another 33,000 Chevys that were fixed because of different Tanaka air bag issues? (autogo.ca)

Big expensive mess any way you inflate it.

Well the problem is the Takata electronic module had been made with a wrong part and might NOT INFLATE.

That affected certain vehicles, but GM had to wait for Takata to identify the modules in question so they could be replaced. Not all 33 were improperly built, but I didn't see a number in the final count.

Just shows that no cars are perfect: they all put their wheels on one lug nut at at time.

circlew

http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/20/autos/takata-recall-list/index.html?iid=SF_LN

andres3

I just learned the other day that the problem is also exploding air bags that are either defective all around, inflate with too much force, and also send shrapnel towards the occupants. This goes to show that government mandated "safety" features, are a waste of time, money, human resources, and should probably be optional. Perhaps air bags aren't the great safety feature we once thought they were.

tlong

andres3 said:

I just learned the other day that the problem is also exploding air bags that are either defective all around, inflate with too much force, and also send shrapnel towards the occupants. This goes to show that government mandated "safety" features, are a waste of time, money, human resources, and should probably be optional. Perhaps air bags aren't the great safety feature we once thought they were.

I believe that studies have shown that seat belts are FAR more critical than airbags. The airbags were mandated because so many people in the 70s and 80s weren't wearing their seatbelts. So those of us who have always worn seatbelts are in large part paying for the idiots who don't choose to wear their seatbelts.