Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • pozzopozzo Member Posts: 8
    Drove the SI, Cooper S, RSX base and Type S, GTI 1.8T, Protege, and Matrix, before buying the SI. Cooper S tops them all for handling (if you want to wait a year), but Type S and SI tie for 2nd. The SI is taut in the corners with some lean and has plenty of spunk with the close ratio 5sp. Seating is good and one can easily carry 4 adults. BTW, the SI's Euro-tuned suspension is a way different ride that any other Civic. I'm coming out of a 924S and the SI is a sweet ride! To top it off, I'm getting 29 mpg! Got it for $18,500. Once these catch on, it'll be hard to get one. . .
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    To etornado, reward, ssaus, pozzo, and anyone else I may have missed.... Welcome to the Hatchbacks Board and congrats on your new Honda Civic Si's! Also, thanks for your detailed notes. I'm sure others passing through here will find them very helpful.

    For those interested, be sure to check out our Honda Civic Owner's Club. From there, you'll also find direct links to many Honda Civic discussions throughout Town Hall. Look for a direct link to our Honda Civic Owner's Club on the left side of this page (Helpful Links).

    And please return to this discussion to keep us posted on your Honda Civic Si experience.... Happy motoring! ;-)

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    Why does Edmunds not list an invoice price for the Si? I've seen this number floating around the internet, so it's not like it is a big secret. What's the story?
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    The new vehicle information is a different department and I'm not very familiar with their schedule. Just speculating that it's simply a matter of them updating their files... with information they did not previously have access to.

    I'll forward your message on to my manager. Also, you can submit your question using this feedback form. For future reference, look of this feedback form in Edmunds' "About" section. Thanks for your participation. ;-)

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    pozzo,

    How did the handling of the Si compare to the base RSX? Since they are the same price what made you choose one over the other?
  • sunilbsunilb Member Posts: 407
    To all of the new owners--
    1. what is your engine spinning at at 70 or 80mph?
    2. is it loud at these speeds?

    I only ask b/c I had a '99 Si that was a great car, but annoyingly loud while cruising on the hwy at 80mph (trust me, it gets old after a couple of hours).

    Thanks.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    Car & Driver said the engine is turning about 4000 RPM at 80 MPH, and made a "sewing machine hum". Seems like a lot of revs to me, but look at the Si's final drive ratio -- 4.76:1! I can't recall another production car with a final drive ratio as high as this.
  • pozzopozzo Member Posts: 8
    The SI turns about 4K at 80mph. It is not quite but it also is not annoying. 4K at 80mph is not unusual that's about what my 924S does and its way louder! The final drive and close ratio 5sp are what makes the car so much fun to drive.

    Comparing to the RSX. The Type gets a sports suspension, not the base. The SI is far more taut than the base RSX, giving (I think) a better feel for the road. RSX has std. ratio 5sp. Acceleration feels less sensational than SI. Type S gets this back with 200hp & 8K red line tied to 6sp gear box. SI experiences more body lean in corners but I've found it takes a set well and accelerates through the turn very nicely. You might say the SI is more high strung, while the RSX more refined. In a nutshell, the SI handles more like a Euro sports car while the RSX is tuned like you'd expect from the Japanese. They definitely are not the same car in different skins!
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    Wow, so the Si is the more sporting choice than the base rsx based on you personal experience. What finally made you choose the Si over the RSX?
  • novcenthusiastnovcenthusiast Member Posts: 80
    just to clarify: the suspension felt firmer on the SI, but the RSX (base) had less body roll?

    I guess that makes a little sense with the RSX having a wider track and a 4mm larger rear swaybar. But wouldn't that also help with the turn-in (reduce understeer)on the RSX? What was the difference in steering feel between the two?
  • pozzopozzo Member Posts: 8
    I have to be careful here, I've driven my SI ~1500 miles and the RSX only for two test drives, but I think it's true there's less body roll in the RSX, and there is turn-in in the SI, however both the roll and the turn-in are well behaved and manageable. A larger swaybar, or maybe different bushings could help the lean.

    Why'd I choose the SI? I've owned a number of British and German sports cars, as well as a few Civics and prefer the taut suspension for better road feel. Mostly I chose the SI beacuse of this and the drive train. The gearing and torque curves are well matched. Also SI back seat has more room. I suspect that the RSX is somewhat (~1-2k) more than the SI. The SI seats are really firm and don't allow one to slide. But most importantly, my wife liked the SI better.
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    Interesting notes! Feel free to also share your thoughts in our new RSX vs Civic Si - Driving Impressions discussion. Use your copy/paste so you don't have to re-write your message. Thanks for your participation, and happy motoring!

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • ssausssaus Member Posts: 2
    Hi folks. Have had the Si two weeks tomorrow. Have 550 miles now. Still love it! I will keep the stock tires till they are gone. Thought about getting some aftermarket wheels, but only dealer option is floor mats which I made them throw in for free. Got 33+ miles per gallon on the first tank, pretty good I think it will increase as engine breaks in (600 miles for break in). As for sound level, at 80 it is a LOT more quiet than my 1998 LX was and also more quiet than my sister-in-laws 2000 Si. Can't say what the rpm's are at 80 but will check. At 60 it is about 2750-2800 rpm in 5th.
  • powderfingerpowderfinger Member Posts: 21
    After 2,000 miles my Si began losing oil (I know this in retrospect). I noticed a slight hesitation
    in the engine when accelerating. The hesitation got worse, until the engine light went on, and then followed by the oil light. By that time the car had only about 1 quart of oil in it.

    Oddly enough, there wasn't any signs of leaking. The oil must have leaked out during driving because I never saw any oil on the ground. Sure enough, though, the dealer found oil splattered all around the oil pan.

    So much for Honda's reputation. The one thing that I thought I wouldn't have any problems with, the powertrain, has turned into a nightmare. Right now they have both my money and my car because I am dead in the water with this car.
  • pozzopozzo Member Posts: 8
    I too have 2,000 miles on my new Si and just checked the oil level based on powderfinger's warning and found it down a quart. My mechanic chalks it up to engine break-in, especially because of the new 5/20 oil which is extremely thin. So words of warning folks, watch your oil level!
  • si2002ownersi2002owner Member Posts: 26
    Thanks for the warning, but so far with 1100 miles on mine, nothing out of the ordinary with the oil, but i sure will keep on looking for it.
  • powderfingerpowderfinger Member Posts: 21
    Your car should not lose a quart of oil due to breakin. Think about it.Where is the oil going
    to go? It either leaks or is burned off. Sound like you have the same problem my car has.
    It's an engine defect.

    Check underneath your pan and look for leaking oil. As I indicated in my original post, I had lost over 3 quarts by 4000 miles. Sorry, but break-in doesn't cause this, but probably a defective pan seal does.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Some oil blow-by is common in young high-compression Honda motors -- my '01 Prelude required the addition of 2 quarts in the first 5K miles, but none since.

    Once the piston rings are fully worn-in the oil comsumption should stop, but you'll probably still lose some it you spend alot of time in the upper rev range.

    Now, a bad oil pan seal is a different matter, but still not an engine defect. I haven't heard about any RSXs suffering from the same malady, and they all use the same block and pan fitment.

    What ever your particular trouble is/was, I hope it's corrected ASAP. Sounds to me that if you were down to one quart, you're probably within your rights to insist upon a new motor.
  • auroraboyauroraboy Member Posts: 11
    Just dropped into the dealership today with my 2002 Civic SiR (Canadian equivalent of US Si Hatchback).

    4000km - and had to add a litre of oil yesterday. 5W-20 is not easy to find. Will keep an eye on it and let you know. Vehicle is scheduled for oil change at 8000 km, per Honda Canada specs.

    The main reason we took the care in is because the driver side power window has jammed up. When it was lowered all the way, it came out of its guide and would not track properly. Got it back in the track, but now the glass is binding and the window rolls up very slowly. Taking it back in on Friday to have door panel removed and window loooked at.
  • pozzopozzo Member Posts: 8
    I will probably get an oil changed this week. I'll look at the pan seal, but I'd didn't see any indication of oil leaking in or around the engine before. I lean toward himiler's explanation. If I find anything other than this, I will post it.
  • rewardreward Member Posts: 11
    Noticed that the oil was down about 1/2 qt at 1800 miles. Dealer topped it off and will have me bring car in every 500 miles for next 2000 to keep an eye on it. I asked if this was a common problem and was told no. But they have only sold a couple of Si's at this dealer so who knows. Also noticed some odd wear on outer edge of front tires and dealer realigned.
  • si2002ownersi2002owner Member Posts: 26
    So far no problems with the car, still love it, but i wanted to ask other owners to see if anybody had notice a "noise" from the stereo? on mine twice when the car is cold i turn it on, and after about 20 seconds a noise like interferience from AM band, but while playing CD and with the volume down to mute. it's very weird, but has not happened aften enough to take to the dealer yet.
    Let me know if anybody knows anyting about it.
  • nautikernautiker Member Posts: 32
    Have had my satin silver si for about 3 weeks now. Already logged 1500mi--took road trip to upstate NY..this car covers the miles. Very quiet for 4k rpm--A/C kills the gas mileage. had windows down on way home to VA and noticed 3-4 mpg better fuel economy. Seats are awesome--better than what I had in my 00 GTI. Still getting used to the looks. . .hoping for a type R body kit available soon. Shifter up on the dash is very natural.

    I'll be checking the oil in response to earlier posts. So far no probs. Have any of you upgraded tires yet?? Not happy w/ the tiny 15" rims--possibly looking to upgrade. Otherwise, a very happy si owner
  • yugoboyyugoboy Member Posts: 161
    Am I in the FORD FOCUS chat room or the HONDA CIVIC chat room, based on all the problems I heard with the si(sir) seem's like honda didn't quite work out all the kinks before production!!!! No way in hell that much oil should be Consumed/Burned/leaked in break in period!!!!! Bad, bad Honda!!!!!!
  • chem123chem123 Member Posts: 272
    1) Having the windows down (esp. at higher speeds) can kill gas mileage because of the increase in drag. The best option is usually to run the A/C low or have the windows cracked open.

    2) It is not unusual for a higher performance engine to consume oil during break-in. Simply take a look around at a majority of S2000s, Porsches, Vettes. If this behavoir continues as the car's life progresses beyond 10K miles or so, it may be problematic...but give the little car a chance.

    In no way am I supporting the new Civic Si. I do not own one, nor will I. I do drive the last Civic hatchback. For autox and track duties it works okay for me now.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Mellow out, dude. There haven't been any Si's losing their rear wheels.

    The Si uses a very light-weight oil, so some blow-by as the engine breaks in is to be expected. Once the piston rings are set, the oil loss stops.

    As for mileage, the engine stays pretty busy at highway speeds. I think Honda should have dropped a really tall overdrive 6th gear in the tranny. Bigger wheels would've helped, too.
  • nautikernautiker Member Posts: 32
    Checking fluids today and noticed was 1-1 1/2 qts low. Took it to Dlrshp and they looked over the bottom of the car and said it was "bone dry". Added 1.5 qts to fill it up. Want me to check before next oil change how much, if any, addl oil has been lost. Never had this prob w/ any other car. Even the 01Honda w/ 1.7l carries 5w20 and never lost any "major" oil. I still wouldn't consider any other vehicle for the money. I actually got the better gas mileage w/ the windows down even though the drag was increased. The terrible mpg is probably attributed to the lack of a break in period as well as the A/C. Can't wait for 10-15k for the engine to loosen up and perform. Drivers environment is top notch. I am VERY glad I purchased this car. Nice not to see 100K's on the road like the Focus. Nothing drives like a Honda!
  • yugoboyyugoboy Member Posts: 161
    Finally ran into someone who actually own's one in person at my local 7/11, she had a nice red sir, asked her about how she like's the car, said it was fantastic, however everytime she use's the a/c the check engine light come's on(very weird)said she was going to bring it into the dealership to have a look at it, other than that she say's it great!!!!I love the seat's in sir, fantastic!!!!
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    I saw a classified dealer ad in the current issue of Autoweek offering two new Si's (white or silver) for $17,400 each.

    Looks like Honda might have another Prelude on its hands.
  • bigbrownbigbrown Member Posts: 17
    Arnt the 2003's coming out soon? Isn't it standard practice to lower the price of last years model before the new ones come out? When I bought my Si last weekend they had a fully loaded 2002 Accord for $16k.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    A valid point, but my comment was directed towards the apparent fact that the Si isn't selling nearly as well as Honda had hoped. I'm guessing that the marketing guys figured they'd all get snapped up (at MSRP or higher) as soon as they hit the dealer lots.

    That would not seem to be the case.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    At my local dealer here in Houston, Si's are like boat anchors - they never seem to move. I test drove one several weeks ago and liked it, but wasn't moved to part with my $$. The salesperson won't leave me alone now - they have offered to sell me the car at invoice, and frankly, I'm still not interested. Now Ford has announced they will produce five door SVT Focii based on the ZX5 - that should really put the last nail into the Si's coffin.
  • rewardreward Member Posts: 11
    interesting that there is such polar reaction to Si, from those who own and love it (me) to those who celebrate its apparent failure. Honestly, I am happy that I don't see one of the things at every stop light (e.g. Celica) and I have grown to appreciate it's "ugly" looks. In spite of all the minor problems reported above and in spite of the fact that Honda may have miscalculated its popularity, I bet I will still be happily motoring at 100,000; 150,000 when most SVT's are rusting away in the junk yard. At $17,400 who could complain?
  • yugoboyyugoboy Member Posts: 161
    You got to be kidding me, where did you hear ford will be producing a svt zx5???? If this is true it would be the greatest thing since the contour svt!!!!???? I guess we will have to see!!! And to reward, Im glad you enjoy your ride, and yes it probably will last forever, maybe not as long as my infiniti g20, but c'mon, your only kidding yourself if you think the current si is a good bargain for your buck, after everything is said and done it's nearly pushing 30 grand Canadian funds, for that kind of money i will import the type r civic from the uk and get some true performance and looks!!!!!My friggin 2 cents!!!!
  • pozzopozzo Member Posts: 8
    I too find it curious the polarization on the SI. I've had mine 2500 miles now and wouldn't exchange is for any type of Ford, or other car, in it's class! I drive it 50 miles a day round trip to work and enjoy every mile! Yes, it could used 17" wheels (maybe one day), the 200 hp i-Vtec and maybe I could get some other car for less, but look in your want ads. . . there are a higher percentage of Hondas with +130,000 miles on them than any other car. As for looks, well it's not the greatest but personally when I was looking, I didn't see anything that particularly struck me except the Cooper S. To sum it up, it meets my needs ( utility and economy) and it's a blast to drive!
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    SVT ZX5 info appears on the Ford Corporate website -- go to www.focaljet.com and you can read all about it.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Face it, the Si was brought to market in North America only after some major arm-twisting by US Honda corporate types and loud complaining by enthusiasts. The car was not designed with the intent of being sold in this market.

    While it's a fine handler and is the most refined car in its class, it lacks the kind of hardware and styling that would have guaranteed it to be a success. As is, it's unquestionably wholesome, but terribly uninspiring. Kind of like eating a bulk fiber cereal every morning of your life.

    Since they're not selling as briskly as was expected, I wouldn't suggest that anyone hold their breath while waiting for a US-spec CTR.
  • bigbrownbigbrown Member Posts: 17
    I didnt buy an Si because other people were buying them. I didnt buy an Si because it was faster than the previous model. I didnt buy an Si because it was the fastest car for the money. I didnt buy an Si because I thought it was the "coolest" looking car on the road. I bought it because I wanted a fast reliable car that was really fun to drive. Thats what I paid for, and thats what I got.
  • yugoboyyugoboy Member Posts: 161
    "I didn't buy an Si because it was the fastest car for the money.", "I bought it because I wanted a fast reliable car that was really fun to drive." That's just the point my friend, this is not a fast car by any stretch of the imagination, and from what i've heard so far not the most reliable either!!!!!! All we are saying is that these civic's are grossly over priced!!!!!!
  • bigbrownbigbrown Member Posts: 17
    "this is not a fast car by any stretch of the imagination"

    Compared to what? Your idea of fast?

    One guy has a problem so its "not the most reliable either"?

    It may be more than you want to spend, but "grossly over priced" is a stretch. What are you comparing the price to? $18k for a 2000si with 30k miles is "grossly over priced." Why would I buy a used car when I can buy a new one for the same amount? Because its faster? Because it looks better? Why?

    How could I have spent my money better? You say "grossly over priced". By how much? To me grossly would mean $4-5k. So, what car that costs $13k is a better deal?
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Unlike yoguboy, I am not insisting that the Si is overpriced. IMO, it's a fair price for what you get (ABS, 4 airbags, good seats, plenty of torque, smooth engine, clever packaging), and you're evidently pleased with your car.

    Nonetheless, for Honda to market it as a "performance" model is fairly suspect. They might better have reduced the spring rates and marketed it as the "EX Hatchback," reserving the "Si" badge for a car more deserving of it.

    Were I shopping for a car under $20K, I would have driven the Si out of curiosity. But, at the end of the day, I would have found more fun, grip and utility in a Subaru Outback Sport.
  • bigbrownbigbrown Member Posts: 17
    "this is not a fast car by any stretch of the imagination"

    Compared to what? Your idea of fast?

    One guy has a problem so its "not the most reliable either"?

    It may be more than you want to spend, but "grossly over priced" is a stretch. What are you comparing the price to? $18k for a 2000si with 30k miles is "grossly over priced." Why would I buy a used car when I can buy a new one for the same amount? Because its faster? Because it looks better? Why?

    How could I have spent my money better? You say "grossly over priced". By how much? To me grossly would mean $4-5k. So, what car that costs $13k is a better deal?
  • yugoboyyugoboy Member Posts: 161
    I couldn't of stated it any better, the whole reason i have a problem is that exact reason, honda is portraying this car a race bread ready for the track hatch, which it is clearly not, i would be happy with the base model the get in europe, put's out about 110 hp, at least we wouldn't get confused with the si badge, compared 2 the 2000 version this hatch just doesn't cut it!!!! But hey to each his own, and if the car is everything you need it to be so be it!!!!!! Personally if I lived in the states i would go with the svt focus, incredible little hatch, too bad it's a ford though!!!!
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    The SVT Focus needs two things to place it on my "Gotta have it!" list --

    - a limited-slip differential (available on aftermarket)
    - a motor borrowed from the (previous generation) Integra Type-R

    Other than those two things, the car is the most comprehensive "factory hot rod" compact sold in North America since the ITR.

    Too bad about the Blue Oval, though...
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    If you want less torque, go ahead and perform that motor swap ;-)
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Hey, for another 25 ponies on top (and an engine that actually likes to rev), I'll gladly give up a little torque (~15 ft/lbs)!

    The Honda B18R is the LT1 of the sub-two liter world.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    show me a torque curve of those motors, and I'll tell you why I'd prefer the SVT's motor. Nice flat torque curve from about 2000rpm up.
  • bigbrownbigbrown Member Posts: 17
    I just raced an NSX and lost. How can Honda say the Si is a performance car?
  • sinjin_dogsinjin_dog Member Posts: 84
    I've been following this site for a while. I have not driven Si yet, but it looks like scaled down version of Honda's minivan Odyssey. May be this is why they are not selling well. I saw an add for $17888 here in So Cal.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    "Ugly" is a relative term, and to an extent so are descripters like "fast", "economical", "roomy" and "overpriced". In comparison to what? If you are thinking of dumping your Cadillac Escalade for an Si, you'd likely find the Si to be quite fast, extremely economical, and bargain priced. Put the Si up against the other three-door hatchbacks in our market (and there aren't many) and it seems more like a compromise vehicle, but it is a nice attempt to balance performance and function -- at least if you can get one near invoice. Sure, it isn't as pure as earlier Si's, but this is 2002, not the '80's or '90's. All cars today are heavier than they should be due to safety requirements and frills. Maybe an earlier post had it right - the current Si should be an EX hatch, to be sold alongside of the SiR. With the Acura nameplate to protect, I'm not holding my breath...
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