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Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier



  • himilerhimiler Posts: 1,209
    People are paying MSRP+ for Si's because there will be fewer than 5,000 imported this year. I would imagine that if someone wants one bad enough (which is pretty difficult for me to imagine), then they'll pony up what the dealer says.

    Good ol' law of supply and demand! Capitalism rules!
  • Drove the Si today... for $21k I'd need to be very impressed.... I was not. It'a a civic with a few extra horse but sure didn't feel like anything special. Yugoboy will be glad to know that I told the dealer for $21k they could keep the car. I wouldn't have taken it even if it were $19k. What a disappointment.

    Anybody on this post acutally taken possession of an Si yet?
  • verozahlverozahl Posts: 574
    How is the G20? Nice entry-level sport sedan.
    Yes, capitalism rules... more demand for Civic Si and less demand for Infiniti G20 means you probably got a great deal on the G20... but there's an Infiniti dealer in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario... but NO INFINITI dealer in Ann Arbor, Michigan (city of many import luxury models). Canadian market is different.

    Infiniti G20 is more refinement than sport...
    Civic Si is the other way around.

    Why buy an Si? Ohhh... because Civic EX is so boooooring after the redesign.

    Boy, for a Honda-Acura partisan, I'm a little loose cannon! (LOL baby!) ... Honda and Acura dealers here have a big audience, so they're probably tougher to deal with. I got my Integra on the East Side of the Detroit Metro area... less demand there.
  • yugoboyyugoboy Posts: 161
    You got me figured out brothaaa!!!! G20 is definetly more refinement then sport, however it handles like a mother, and has every available option you could think!!!!! So many compliments, people like the fact that it is a little more original than getting and Acura or Lexus(love the is300, hate the clear rear lenses that come on it though!!!)) Anywayz to make a long story short, love the si(sir here in Canada)hatchback really is the only way to go for practicality!!!! However i love being treated like a king at my dealership, instead of a pon, like i would in a honda dealership!!! My 2 cents!!!!!
  • sunilbsunilb Posts: 407
    so, I went back to the Santa Monica dealership to check out their only Si and here's how it broke down:

    Si $19,540
    leather $ 1,300
    tint $ 400
    *Dealer Mark-up* $2,000

    Basically, over $23K!! Ridiculous, I think. On a positive note, the steering wheel, seats and interior ergonomics were awesome!
    Incidentally, I had a '99 Si which I paid 2.5% over invoice (total of $16,500)... unfortunately, this car was stolen from me this past fall (it got totally stripped). For me, this new Si (especially since it is slower than the '99) isn't worth more than $17,500 to me (credit going to the nice seats and steering wheel)... which probably means, I won't own one.

    This dealership also had a $10,000 mark-up on a S2000!!!! What the heck?? I could understand this when the car first came out and dot-com money was running amuck... but now? Who are these people paying over MSRP by leaps and bounds?
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Posts: 1,339
    There is no other logical answer. I stopped at my dealer today to sit in the one Si they have in stock. The seats look great, but oddly enough, they weren't very comfortable or supportive, at least for my body (6'5" and on the slim side). The car was not available for test drives, so I have no idea what it is like out on the road. It seems pretty well assembled and detailed, but it didn't make me want to reach for my checkbook.
  • sunilbsunilb Posts: 407
    yeah, for around $20K I'd rather get a GTI (more luxurious, and more power) or a Mini (more sporting; though, the mark-ups on them could be quite high as well).

    Incidentally, where is the Invoice price for this car? Edmunds still doesn't have it listed.... are manufacturers no longer releasing this data?
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Posts: 1,339
    ... at least until the buzz wears off. I'd just look at the percentage markup on other Hondas and figure the margin is about the same. The car I saw was a non-airbag model, and the sticker said $19,000.00 plus freight. I'd guess there's about $1.5K - $2K profit built into the MSRP.
  • gsgman69gsgman69 Posts: 75
    I've been reading all of the comparisons between hot hatches for the past couple months and the SI has won none of them. They should of priced it nearer to the Focus SVT(17995?) which runs rings around it. They also should have made the sunroof optional as you have to get one with an RSX.

    I've seen some discounted last year 200 hp Preludes here in C. Texas that haven't been going for much more than 21k, so....

    The larger picturer is that manufacturers have to North Americans more options with high performance cars - not just economy cars with more body cladding. This is already evident in the Subaru WRX which is now being countered by the Lancer Evo VII.

    Anyway I was looking at the 2002 SI and it was my lead candidate after I had given up on the Sentra SE-R. I eventually ended up with a VW GTI 1.8t and looking back I'm glad I did.
  • himilerhimiler Posts: 1,209
    Cool. That 1.8T is a bullet! (Just watch it in the twisties--"Roll over! Play dead! Good boy!")
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    If a dealer asks for more than MSRP (I wouldn't even pay that for any car), just ask if they have a Prelude in the lot. Couple of years ago, I paid $21.6K to get Prelude with manual transmission.
  • tgo63tgo63 Posts: 16
    I checked out civic si last weekend. Was not very impressed, but did not drive it. There was a market markup $1,500. Myself I would never pay this, but I am sure they will find a person with money to burn. I did not like the way car looks from the side. The beltline is very high, seem out of proprtions. I think prelude is a much nicer, faster, and more interesting vehicle.
    However, if someone needs a five sits in a car thats a different story.
  • sunilbsunilb Posts: 407
    some car mag made an interesting description... they said that the Si has a "hippo on rollerskates"-look.

    At the same time (I believe it was the same publication) said that the CTR is the best looking vehicle Honda has put out since the S2000.

    Kind of funny I thought... and then later, I realized that I think they are on to something!
  • A local dealer here in Eastern, NC offered me a Silver 2002 Si at $750 over invoice. It does not have the side airbags but does have all the dealer add ons. He gave me all the invoice information since I was not able to find it online. These aren't exactly flying off the lots around here so if you're shopping, be patient. Don't pay hidden fees either as several dealers add "documentation fees", "advertising fees", "environmental protection" or "market adjustment". This is all bogus non sense.

    $19,000*****$17,801.80 2002 Silver Civic Si
    $229********$182.10 Side Molding
    $124********$76.18 Sunroof visor
    $99*********$51.85 Cargo Tray
    $99*********$66.74 Floor mats
    $79*********$40.80 splash guards
    $79*********$40.00 wheel locks
    $440********$440 destination fee
  • verozahlverozahl Posts: 574
    I always wondered what the Honda 'Dealer Appreciation Fee' was for... wait, that's what the Toyota dealer asked for when I asked about the Celica.
  • dasteph94dasteph94 Posts: 20
    Just thought I'd clarify something for those of
    you trying to negotiate with dealers to buy a SI--as a journalist I get official info from Honda
    USA and they say some 12000 of the SI's are being
    brought in--so if any dealer hits you with that
    nonsense about only 5000 coming in, just ignore them and keep negotiating...
    and good luck!
  • seguyseguy Posts: 133
    Dealer near me has them for MSRP + $299 handling fee. No other add-ons or fees. Decent dealer (for Honda). They're only getting two a month. Sold the first one they got two weeks ago, but don't have any of the other ones pre-sold as of four days ago.(Don't know if re-sale will hold up like the 99-00 Si). Sat in and played with one at an auto show. Liked the feel alot, looks okay, would grow on me I guess. We bought a '02 cr-v a few months back and the i-vtec engine is really impressive, so I'm sure the 2.0 in the civic is as silky and consistent. Almost put my name on the list for a silver one, but decided to look at VW GTI one more time. Went to the dealer Wednesday and drove out with a silver 1.8T with Luxury and Leather(gray leather) Package for $19950 + tax out the door. Gave me a fair value on my 99 accord too, something I'd have a hard time getting with Honda. Good luck to you Si shoppers. Looks like a great car, but for about the same "real world price" you can get a GTI which offers more of everything, except maybe handling. Not looking to add anything onto my car for a couple years, but when I do, I'd like to add a chip, springs, and short shift kit.(Cost $1000 for all)
  • 5port5port Posts: 395
    Here on Long Island my local Honda dealership has had two Si's sitting for a little over a month. One in white and one in that goldish color. They are both offered slighty above MSRP. Being an ex-94 Civic Si owner I went and gave them a good check out. I was not impressed.

    That new shifter is interesting but where do you rest your arm between shifts in traffic? The car is almost 2800 lbs now. In person it looks like a Mini-Minivan. The seats look ready for the race track but not a long trip. Looks like there is less room in the hatch area now. I just think they priced them a bit high for this area (NY). There are many other choices now that are just as fun and almost as fast. My new Elantra GT is 8.0 seconds to 60 and the Si is 7.6. $14.5K vs $19K. It was a no-brainer. I wish Honda luck.
  • I have a '93 Si that is starting to die on me. It's taken my abuse for 9 years without complaint and it's been a delight to own. I'm going to be buying a new car in the next few weeks and I was excited to hear that the new Si's are on dealer lots.

    But the new Si isn't what my OLD Si is. My '93 was a bargain ($12,500) for a sporty car with a nice moonroof, a cammy v-tech engine and a tight suspension. The new Si is more refined, but it's also pricey! $19.5k for a Civic Si with mini-van-bland styling and mediocre performance? I think Honda might be missing the mark with this car. Look at the SVT Focus - that's what the old Si was - a reliable driver's car that is a real value. The new Si leaves me a little flat.

    Oh well, I think I'm going to but a Protege5 instead. Not as powerful, but it's a good handler with enough power to raise a smile and costs about $2,000 less than the Si. And it looks nice, too.

  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    But as compared to SVT Focus. I think Si would be a good value if sold at around invoice + 300/400 & given the market's response I think it will sel at that price only. Civic type R is coming here in USA & is confirmed by the internet manager at the local dealer (for around 21K msrp)
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    I did test drive Si last wednesday! I LOVED it. Now I have not driven SVT focus or 99-00 Si for that matter but the shifter/steering & high speed stability is just toooo good on the 2002 Si. Replacing the tires would be the priority #1 if you are serious about performance. The interior was tight as a drum & the biggest suprise was the noise level. It was just like a NON-HONDA or non Civic sort of quiet!!

    Also test drove new Hybrid CVT, it has a real cool digital-blue interior & it is just crazy when it shuts down at the stop light & starts with a push on gas pedal!! It freaked me out first time but afterwards makde a lot of sense! Hybrid was way too quiet than the rets of the line. I think Honda is getting serious about reducing interiror noise levels!!
  • verozahlverozahl Posts: 574
    The interior noise level issue is not as big as betting bested by the Focus SVT (the Recallmobile Deluxe Edition) and the making current Si and Integra owners laugh. The current Civic is for grandmothers only (I was beat up by an old granny at the Detroit auto show trying to sit in an EX), and the Si does not have enough power to justify itself. I would rather have a Sentra SE-R. Honda should bring over the Type-R Civic... or watch it the Civic plummet until the next restyle.
  • mdrivermdriver Posts: 385
    The Civic has probably taken its final bow in the performance arena, being trounced by a Ford. Whoever thought that the Si should be sold with 15" wheels (same size as the pedestrian Elantra) and price it at $19.5k should be fired. Even if/when the Type R arrives, it will probably be no better than the SVT but have a price in the lower $20s. If you read all of the comparison reports (including Edmunds own), you would have to be crazy to still buy the Si over the SVT. And don't get me started on the 7th gen Civic that makes Buicks feel like they have a sports suspension. Oh, I have seen the Si advertised at $18,400 yep, $18,400 in a large newspaper's auto section (don't want to give away my location). OK, the Si is a good car, but it should be compared with the ZX3 not the SVT.
  • verozahlverozahl Posts: 574
    Civic is not over in the performance arena. The Civic's next generation will have a shot at the Focus. Until then, enjoy the recalls!
  • bsme1991bsme1991 Posts: 23
    With 8 safety recalls to date and 4 defect investigations, the Ford Focus is proving to be an embarrassment to Ford Motor Company and its new President William Clay Ford, who are trying to stress quality in the wake of the Ford Explorer/Firestone ATX, Wilderness AT tire debacle.

    Among the Focus recalls are 351,000 2000 models whose roof pillars can cause head injuries in crashes and 203,700 2000 models whose left rear wheel falls off.
    "The safety recall for the 2002 Focus SVT (#02S37) applies to all vehicles made from 06 November 2001 through 08 April 2002 - virtually all Focus SVT production. Safety recall #02S37 is a recall for the throttle body speed control cable, which can hang up at the throttle body bracket during high, wide open throttle operation."

    mdriver, the Focus SVT is the car for you.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    So you're not contesting that the SVT is a much better car in performance are you?

    That being said, I'd take a Civic Type R over the SVT Focus if the price was close. Of course I'd take a Focus RS over the CTR if the price of both was close ;-)
  • mdrivermdriver Posts: 385
    So an SVT owner may have to visit the dealer a couple times more than an Si owner. Big deal. The other 99% of the time he is thrashing Si's on the street. Also, did you know that the Civic EX coupe (7.9s) is faster than the Si (8.1s)? Here are the links to those two numbers:

    Civic EX coupe:

    Civic Si:

    How can honda put out a performance vehicle, that is slower than the very non-performing EX?

  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    I'm going to hope those 0-60 times are because of different drivers. I could understand the Si's 0-60 time if it was running on 17" or 18" rubber, but not 15's.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Posts: 1,339
    The Si is a very tightly built car, but it is also a porker - I'd think the weight difference between the EX and the Si would account for a good bit of the performance difference.
  • sunilbsunilb Posts: 407
    I'd have to echo mdriver's comments-- how in the world can Honda put out an Si that is not only slower than it's previous version (Edmunds got a 7.2 0-60 on a 1999 Si, I believe) AND, more importantly, slower than the EX!?!?!?


    Of course, as much as I'm looking forward to the arrival of the CTR, I have a strong feeling that Honda is going to overprice this vehicle (personally, I think the Si is already overpriced).
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