Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

himiler

Never let the salesman know how badly you might want the car, unless you don't care what you pay for it. Stay cool and detatched during and after the test-drive.

The ultimate negotiating tool is the knowledge that you can (and will!) walk away at any time without a deal. The dealer knows this, but most buyers don't. Make the sales rep earn their pay.

anonymousposts

If you have a trade do like I did. This car is not worth XXX amount of dollars more to me than my old one. I said that until it was no longer true. At $16,300 there was NO way I was gonna turn that deal down especially when they gave me good money for my 2000 Si.

Get a price set in your head that you want to pay and don't go above it. It helped that I still liked my 2000 SI and it wouldn't have killed me to walk out on the deal if they didn't give me a price I wanted. Always have options and DON'T be a payment shopper. The dealer will always try to get you that way. Know the bottom line of what you want to finance and stick with it.

nippon: Some early model Celica GTS' blew engines because of the crappy 6-speed. It was so bad that Toyota briefly stopped production of the 6-speed until they could get it straightened out. And if you don't have a GTS then you have a slow ride that would get left in the SI's dust regardless of the amount of oil the SI uses.

muffin_man

Thanks for your advice everyone. All I have to do now is decide which car I want.

green_guy - I think I'm going to go over to ephatch anyway, I had been trying to read up on it on civicsi.com, but I can't find anything.

arriflex

I am considering buying a 2002 Si, but the theft issue, the oil consumption scares me. I got an offer for 17,321.80, 480 below invoice. I was thinking of telling them I want the mud flaps, wheel locks and floor mats for $150 total. Is this realistic or will they laugh in my face. What should I do? I like the car. I drove my cousin's RSX type S, Wow! What a ride but to pricey for me. Please help. Thanks.

silver_bullet

All they can say is no, but they'd be stupid to let you walk for such a small amount. Why not ask for the goodies at NO additional cost? What's the harm? Personally, I think it is a crock that Honda has the nerve to charge $17K - $18K for a Civic and then expects you to pay extra for floor mats. You can also get factory accessories online at a discount, so that may be an option as well.

anonymousposts

I ordered my mats off of handa-accessories.com for $65.00 and the splash guards were about $70 or $80 I think. So $150 shouldn't be out of the question.

powderfinger

For the money, the Si is a good value at $17,300.
It has similar engine/perf/equipment to an RSX, which are typically sold for 19+K (I never tried to negotiate a better price, though).

If you read the RSX board, you will find some other folks who have oil consumption issues like the people posting here. My oil problem most likely is an exceptional case, since the oil leaked out vs. being consumed.

Both the Si and RSX are new for 2002. If you are concerned about the oil consumption, I wouldn't buy either of these two cars this model year. You
will probably be better off with a regular Civic.

I can't otherwise not recommend one of these cars.
They are both comfortable, zippy, and efficient.
I am getting about 35MPG overall, which is quite remarkable considering the weight, engine size, and the short gearing of the powertrain.

jooi_lim

is because you got screwed in your trade-in of the 2000 SI. It would be helpful in the future whenever you mouth of how much you paid for your 02 SI ($16.3k), make sure you tell them first of your trade in.

We all know, as well as you, dealer trade in, you loose about 15% more than if you were to sell the car yourself.

anonymousposts

If you had read my post before you started spouting off at the keyboard you would see that I only paid $11,000 for the 2000 SI I traded and then got $12,200 for trade. And if you go to www.kbb.com to look up trade values, a 2000 SI with 41,000 miles using zip code 30144 is worth $12,200 in EXCELLENT condition which mine wasn't.

Not only did I get $12,200 for the car if you factor in the sales tax credit it's closer to $13,000. A $2,000 APPRECIATION in 4 months and 8,000 miles is pretty durn good in my book. I wish I could get screwed like that more often.

auroraboy

Just to change the topic somewhat. Took the wife's 2002 SiR in recentyl for its 8000km oil change. You might recall that I had previously posted about our episode with the malfunctioning driver's side window. It would only move slowly up and down. It had come out of its guide track and was tracking outside the proper channel. This was fixed at about 4000k. Then took the car in for an oil change at 8000k (had added a litre at about 4,000k). The day after the 8000k service, the driver's side inside door handle stopped working. The only way to open the driver's door was to lower the window and open the door from the outside. Took it in this AM to be fixed. Lo and behold, the door latch does not use a rod system like most other Civics (the mechanic showed me, and this was the 1st Civic he had seen without the rod system). On the 20002 Si/SiR, they use a wire that runs from the inside door handle across the inside of the door to the latch mechanism, on the end of the door.
At one point, the wire is held in a guide with a 1" collared piece of hollow plastic. This collared piece of plastic fits in a slot, and when the handle is pulled, the wire is also pulled. The piece of plastic was broken in two at the collar. It is literally a hollow piece of plastic about 1" long and 3/16" in OD. it can't be worth more than a few pennies. They have located a replacement wire assembly in Montreal, and hope to have the car fixed by Tuesday. The mechanic said this was the 1st Civic with this new wire system.

Something that any other 2002 Si/ SiR owners might want to watch out for. The Acura RSX's may also use this new wire system....I have no idea though.

Other than these two problems with the window and lock (very un Honda like), the car is fun to drive.

arriflex

I bought a 2002 Si. I bought the gap ins. Do you think I should get Lojack? I got it 480 below invoice and got Mats, flaps and wheel locks for 150. They would only give me 8,000 for my 2000 Civic DX HB with 23,500. Did I get ripped? He pulled out the NADA book.

arriflex

I bougth a 2002 Si $480 below invoice plus mats, flaps and wheel locks for $150. They would only give me $8,000 for my 2000 Civic DX HB. They guy brought out the NADA book. Did I get ripped. I got 4.9% for 60m which just started 8/02 which I didn't think they were doing special rates for the Si. I got the gap ins and Disability. My montly is $300.15. Should I get Lojack? What do you guys think?

anonymousposts

I think $8000 is pretty fair for a 2000 Civic HB depending on the condition. They used to advertise those new for $10,000-$11,000. Wish they had the 4.9% when I bought my SI. I ended up with 6%.

nippononly

early GTS 6-speeds got blown engines from piss-poor manual drivers, not because of anything Toyota did. People just did not know how to use a close-shifting transmission, and shifted back into the wrong gears as a consequence. Too bad Toyota had to change anything to accomodate skill-free drivers.

So your car looks like a minivan and blows oil, huh? Glad I got a Toyota. For less than $3K more than what you paid, I can get a fulllength mirror into mine as well!! LOL.

The only dust around here will be the dust on the top of your car when you are trying to sell it.

powderfinger

The 2000 Civic HB is a hard to find vehicle. It's a desirable vehicle to mod, though it is not a desirable mainstream vehicle.

The dealership where I bought my Si has a 1999 HB (auto) with 50K for 13,000. (Yes, 13,000).
They won't get that much, but they can probably wait it out for some kid who wants that car to mod. Since I bought my Si, I would like to trade it for a previous gen HB. (hehe, you did just the opposite). You should have told me, I would have given you more than $8,000 for yours. But that
means I would have had to find a sucker to buy my Si.

You will never get the best deal trading the car in at a dealership. That's a given.

I would be careful about buying those insurance plans that the dealerships offer. They are very profitable and have questionable value.

anonymousposts

People who can't drive sticks buy every make. It's questionable that Toyota had to stop production of a 6-speed car because people didn't know how to drive ... I think not. In addition to stopping production they also lowered the rev limiter on that engine ... hmmm. I guess people don't know how to use the accelerator either. Glad I bought a Honda....

$3,000 more? More like $5,000. If I wanted to spend $21,000 for a car I don't like with 180HP I could buy a Hyundai Tiburon and save a few grand. If I want to pay $5,000 more than I paid for my SI and get 200HP and a car I like then I could buy a RSX.

Trying to sell my car? Nah. I just bought it. Want to talk about dust try to sell that Celica. Hey but if you ever do we have a nice 2000 SI for sale that runs up to 8000RPM and Honda didn't even have to redo the gearbox OR lower the redline.

hamproof

I am looking to buy a Civic SI to replace my junky Escort. The maximum I can afford is $12k. However, when I was at the dealership looking at one, I balked at the price. The asking price is upwards of $18k w/ severely markup items (like tint, floormats, pinstripping etc.). With my trade in of about $4k on the Escort, it'll come to about $14k. I guess $14k for a brand new Civic SI is not bad. Still on a higher end of my price range. I can buy a Focus loaded for around that price.
I told the dealer about Edmunds.com and the TMV. He gave a chuckle. I said most people on this forum are getting their SI for $16-$17k. He said, yeah right. Well, not in those words, but I get the impression. I've been reading this thread the whole morning, trying to catch up on the articles. It seem most people are getting it for about $17-$18k. Not $16-$17k from what I initially thought. Those who got it for less probably know the dealership well or just a better negotiator than me.
I guess if I can find one w/o the tints (runs about $250 from reputable company - dealership puts down $500), floormats ($150 - cheap ones from Walmart will do for $30 - for me that is), pin stripping for $80 (this is daylight robbery), I should be able to get it for around $17-$17.5k tops.
So, can I get my yellow pearl 02 SI for $12k?? Anyone knows if my 97 Escort is worth $4k??? I bought it from Enterprise a few years back. Got a really good deal too! Only cost me $2k!

himiler

Not to burst your bubble, but you won't be getting a new $12K Si. The allowance on your trade-in is fair (particularly since it's valued at twice what you paid), but no dealer is going to roll over for you on a new car trade, no matter how desperate they are to get rid of a slow-seller. And by the sound of it, your dealer isn't exactly acting desperate.

Since you're already up $2000 in the game, my advice would be to keep driving the Escort (unless you know something major is about to break on it), and wait for either a used Si or a greater availability of funds to come along.

The Focus is not a bad car (despite the nagging QC issues), and for the money it's a good value with a very capable chassis. If you spend quality seat time in both (a 1-hour test drive, at least), you might find your decision an easier one to make. Good luck!

anonymousposts

Go to kbb.com and get a fair trade number for your car. I don't know where you are located but some dealer websites here in the Atlanta area are showing deals on new SI's for $16,300 and there was an ad in the paper for $16,900 at one dealer. Might be hard to find a puk..I mean euro yellow one though.

dasteph94

Here in the Midwest Civic Si prices have come down
dramatically in the last two months. Area dealers started at 19,600 (OVER MSRP!!) and now some are down to 17,832! I'd encourage anyone looking for one to come buy in a Midwestern state (I live in Ohio) rather than pay exorbitant rates some other dealers are asking for.

yugoboy

I never understand how honda has gotten away with it for so long, Floor Mats should not be an option, if you are already dropping 18k on a car you think they would be able to throw in the mats!!! I think anyway who cant get the oem mats thrown in for free should give their head a shake!!!!!

jfigueroa1

the floor mats for my 2002cr-v were part of the vehicle standard items. no extra $ for them
greetings from sunny Miami

hamproof

I can't get the dealers to budge from their asking price by much and I'm so desperate to get a car now. Just want to smell the new car smell! Intoxicating. So in the end I paid $13,598 (to be exact before tax, title, license etc.). I guess it is better than the previous poster who paid $16k++. I'm happy!

tdp05

you paid $13598 for a brand new 2002 Civic Si?? I think other civics go for that, but not the Si's.

I'm gonna have to call BS without some type of scanned proof.

si2002owner

No way a 19.460 car will go for 13.598, at least not new. Maybe, but only maybe, a "demo" one, with rough 400 miles on, but new? civic 2002? civic SI 2002?... hmmm...

silver_bullet

I assume this is the amount you paid AFTER trading in your old car, correct?

anonymousposts

I'm with the people who want proof of a price of $13,598 if that's not including a trade. I'll go buy another one if they are selling them that cheap.

revdrluv

You'll be fighting with me to get in line if that is true.

himiler

Hamproof already said he was getting $4000 for his Escort trade-in...so for the difference, he did pretty well!

Congrats on the new ride, hamproof! Did you get the yellow one that you were looking at?

Be sure to check the oil often!

anonymousposts

If he paid 13,598 + 4,000 that sounds more like it.

jfigueroa1

Down here in the Miami area they are selling the si for 17,395 with no trade in required. I think that is a good starting $ to work with the dealer.
Greetings fron sunny miami.

hamproof

I paid $2000 for the POS Escort a couple of years back from Enterprise. Actually some of you might be surprised it only cost me $2000, but at that time I couldn't afford to buy a car and was financially strapped for cash. I had to rent the car on a weekly basis and part of the payments actually go towards *buying* the car. Only way I can get transportation at that time. Anyway, at the end (about 1 year), I saved enough (about $2k) to pay the car off.

Yeah, I did get the yellow and it's kicking [non-permissible content removed]

greenguy

Its now broken in and all I can say is this engine sure has opened up! This is my first Honda, and the iV-tec rush is fun! Now all I need to do is change out these crappy tires and suspension.

Hamproof, congrats on your purchase, but you did get the car for MSRP. So you paid what a majority of the Folks paid.

himiler

You might find that the engine continues to gain strength up to the 10,000-mile mark. Both my Integra and Prelude needed that long to fully "loosen-up."

If I were in your shoes, I'd put a cold-air intake on my short shopping list of stuff to get for the Si. For around $200, the gains are pretty impressive (10+hp), and they're easy to install.

http://www.coximport.com

204meca

The latest issue of R&T has a Si, Focus SVT, Tiburon, and Sentra SR-V compro. The put the Si in second place (behind the SVT naturally). One editor rated it as his top choice for all around balance & comfort (something us old farts think about). R&T seemed to do much better in acceleration figures, posting a 7.6 for 0-60. That is 0.4 faster than Edmunds and on 0.1 second off the 2001 Civic Si time. Are their test drivers that much better? I wonder which is closer to the real life average.

anonymousposts

It could've been different temperatures, altitudes, etc. Or maybe the previous test was a pre-production model. I think it's just as quick as the previous SI, but in a different way.

I am at 1300 miles and I love it.

greenguy

That was like 3 issues ago. The latest has the future offerings from vehicle makers.

Senor Himler,
Engine mods are second on my list after getting the tires and suspension sorted out. NOTHING scares me more than going around a corner and feeling the tires flex and give way. If its that easy, then how can I control a slide? So sticking to the pavement is job #1.

himiler

I hear you! The first three mods for my Prelude were Potenza S-03's, a Neuspeed tower brace, and a Quaife LSD. These gave the car significantly more grip than go.

Without grip, extra HP is useless.

My engine mods have just recently begun, now that I'm really comfortable with the car's handling.

revdrluv

There is an ad in my local paper for a Honda dealership that has pictures of all of their models. The picture of the Si shows a Civic hatch with the Si alloys and everything, but it has four side doors. Is this probably just an image of a european Civic mistakenly grabbed? or are Honda maybe going to release a 5 door Si?

himiler

5-door Si? I haven't heard a single word about one, and would consider it highly unlikely.

The dealer screwed up his ad shot. Mess with their heads a little: call the dealership and schedule an appointment to drive the car pictured, just to see what they say.

seminole_kev

seminole_kev

it's a 1.4L regular 5-door civic, but I assume this is what the 5-door Si looked like?

revdrluv

"Mess with their heads a little: call the dealership and schedule an appointment to drive the car pictured, just to see what they say."

Thats a marvelous IDEA! Maybe I will just go there and say I love the car pictured and get really upset when they can't show me one.

The car I saw was definately the 5 door in the picture you found. I thought it was most likely they just screwed up. I couldn't believe that news like that would have slipped by me.

anonymousposts

Tonight my SI was trashed. A woman in a Grand AM was making a left turn and pulled out in front of me. I was going about 40-50MPH and the impact spun me around in the opposite direction. Needless to say I am crushed. I loved that car. The airbags went off, the passenger side front wheel was pushed into the fender, the radiator was busted, you could see the exhaust pipe underneath the car was bent, it looks like the ABS unit and other electricals might be affected, and there might be some engine damage because on these SI's the intake is located near the front of the engine.

Luckily I walked away unscathed so I can attest that this is one solid little car. It just infuriates me that my new car with less than 1600 miles had to be towed away on a stretcher. The Grand Am was in worse shape than my car and the woman driving it had to be taken to the hospital. I just hope that the car is replaced because I am not sure how safe it would be aftering repairing the whole sub-frame.

theracoon

Sorry to hear about your car, but glad to hear you're okay. Hope the woman is too.

himiler

Damn! That really sucks! I know how you're feeling about the Si right now, but don't get too bummed out about it. You made it through the collision okay, and her insurance company owes you a big bunch of money.

It's unlikely, however, that the car will be totaled, since it has so few miles on it. Usually, the damage amount has to be greater than 60% of the value of the car in order for it to be totaled. Once you have it appraised, it may be discovered that there's a whole bunch of structural damage beyond the front sub-frame, in which case it might be a total loss.

Try to have it appraised at the Honda shop, with the service manager right there with you to point out to the appraiser whatever could be wrong with the car, and how expensive it'll be to repair. If the total gets high enough, Bam! New car!

If you can't get a new car, the front sub-frame actually isn't too difficult to replace. As far as the repair work on the engine and suspension goes, if your Honda dealer has a body shop that's any good, I'd probably just let them handle the entire repair. That way, you can get them to correct any little problems with driveability that you might have without having to fool around with going thru whatever bodyshop you might otherwise go to.

I'm really sorry to hear about your car, but I'm glad you're healthy. Tough little car, that Si!

anonymousposts

The other woman's insurance company is supposed to go look at the car Monday but they won't accept liability without talking to her. The car is undrivable so if I want an independent appraisal I will have to have it towed to a Honda place. I am planning to go today and take some pictures of it so maybe I will post them tonight. It really ticks me off to say the least. If they repair the car I think I have a good case for a new engine because several things were pushed into it. But we'll see.

I agree that the most important thing is that there were no serious injuries.

serumaster

what kind of tail lights are these? http://users.adelphia.net/~toddandcc/images/1i1.jpg

revdrluv

Looks like Altezza style lamps where the inside of them has been painted the same color as the body of the car.

arriflex

I just hit 600miles on my Si. I checked the oil and it was a little below the middle mark between the two holes. I was wondering if anyone knows what the filled in circuler slot next to the hazard light button is for? Any ideas? Enjoying the car so far. I really wanted the yellow w/ side bags but couldn't find a dealer with one that would deal. I wound up getting silver. I really liked the white but everyone was telling me to get silver. Peace out.