Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

yugoboy

that has to be the funniest but yet most sarcastic post i have read in a long time!!!! Very funny indeed, maybe if you get rid of the spare donut in the back you might gain that slight advantage you need to beat the honda nsx!!!!!

himiler

Low-end grunt certainly has its appeal for point-and-squirt driving, but I'm used to keeping the motor on full boil. Ever wonder why F1 engines rev to 14,000 RPM? ;-)

powderfinger

The old Si's are dead and they are never coming back.

Every 3/5 door hatchback in the marketplace today is 2700+LBS and has a 2.0L engine
or bigger. Even the new Suzuki Aerio (which looks like a blown up 3cyl Swift) is over 2700LBS. There are a couple of exceptions now, but in a couple of years I doubt we will see
any cars under 2500LBS and smaller than 2.0L engines.

Buyers don't like small cars, underperforming cars, low torque, or increasingly, cars with no utililty.

I got a kick out of the Si brochure, which states something like "No peaky curve. Just one long, straight pull from bottom to top. Delivering pure Si power the way you like it". Exactly who likes this? Si's never performed this way in the past.

Well, it's fine for me. But, this car is so different from past Si's. It is exceptionally refined, smooth, and comfortable. The regular Civic's are good, but not anywhere near as good as the Si.

Barring my oil leak problems, this has been a great car. I don't understand why the P5's and WRX's are selling better. It is not significantly more expensive, by features, than a P5.

silver_bullet

P5s sell better than Sis because they can usually be gotten for less money, and Mazda has been running cash/finance rebates all year. They also have four doors, which many people want or need. Finally, Lots of P5s have auto trannies - a depressingly large number of folks won't shift their own gears anymore. Arguably, the P5 looks better too - and that is its real strength. It sends the right image. What does the new Si say about its owner?

WRXs are another matter altogether, and really don't play in the same league as the Si. AWD and serious turbo power are noticeably absent in all Hondas.

powderfinger

The P5 is a hatckback version of the sedan.
The Si is its own vehicle designed to be a hatchback. It doesn't look as good
as a P5 because the engineering goals of strength, space and stiffness dictated
its design. I like engineering excellence over looks.

bigbrown

Mazda also has a better marketing campaign. I didnt even know the Si existed until about a week before I bought mine.

riopelle

than the Si, due to its lovely 16" wheels and aero kit. I think engineering has nothing to due with it, although the P5 certainly is less of a niche car. Still, you can't argue with the Protege handling prowess, its impeccable.

My gf laughs every time we pass an Si - "you want one of those? It looks like a minivan!"

Sadly, I do. If the CTR ever gets over here, she's buying my P5 so i can get one.

Hey, does Jim_loves_cars ever post anymore? He was deciding between these two.

reward

OK so I have had the Si for two months and still get a charge out of the way it drives (even on the boring stop and go trip into the city.) I have more power than in any Honda I have ever owned, the steering is responsive and the short throw rally shifter is amazing. The car just has a great feel. I don't really care how it looks while I am driving it and, I have actually caught myself admiring its looks now and again when I have stepped outside. I have yet to see another one on the road in Indianapolis, another plus. For those considering the car, my advice is to spend some time with it before deciding and don't listen to the carping about it not being the same old Si, a great ride is still a great ride.

revdrluv

I actually like the Si's looks over any other Honda of any time period (save the S2000). I recognize that they could have made the body a little more exciting for a sporty car, but then the other Si's hardly looked different from their more pedestrian brothers. At least you won't mistake the new Si for the nasty new Ex coupe. (Absolutely the ugliest Honda in a decade or more)

Of course I like the WRX's styling, so in many peoples opinion that makes my critic null and void.

revdrluv

(Oh I forgot about the prelude, I still like almost all of the preludes)

yugoboy

"Of course I like the WRX's styling, so in many peoples opinion that makes my critic null and void."

I couldn't agree with your statement more, hate to break it to you though, wrx, looks like a dodge neon on steriods!!!!! Nasty headlights, fog lights the size of basketball's, and lets not forget the out of control spoiler!!!!

greenguy

The lines on a WRX ar ecompletely different than a Neon. Just because it has round head lights. Then would you compair a Mercedes to a Neon? What about the new mini? Think outside of the box!

revdrluv

nippononly

Finally got over to the dealer and test-drove the new SI - a very nice ride, but very different from the spunky '86 I had for many years. Mostly, I have to agree with the above post that it looks an awful lot like a minivan, especially from the back - how did that happen? VW GTI is a squared-off hatchback too, but it doesn't look like a minivan to me.

Hey, and by the way, to powderfinger: my celica is a 3 door hatchback, but instead of 2700+ lbs it is only 2425, and instead of a 2.0 liter, it has a 1.8 liter. It is not the fastest car around, not even close, but the engine size and torque curve are very well matched to the size of the car, IMO. It pulls well right from 2000 RPM, and peak torque is only at 4200.

And it definitely feels faster in city driving than the SI I just drove, which has another 20 hp, but also another 350 pounds or so.

I wish they would bring over the car sold as type R in Europe.

silver_bullet

I've studied the Si, and have concluded that the short, sloping hood combined with the design of the A pillars and the large windshield make it look like a shrunken Odyssey. The Focus and the GTI both have longer, more defined "noses". The Si is almost a "one box" design as opposed to a more conventional "two box" hatchback.

himiler

I'm down with the WRX's styling, too. Just keep in mind that I'm driving a Prelude, so it's possible that I have no sense of style whatsoever, which is just fine with me.

The Si's styling isn't great, but it appeals to me in a funky, functional kind of way. I'm big on function.

silver_bullet

I agree with you as far as function over form is concerned. The Si looks better with more familiarity, although the stock wheels still look a little small for the car. It isn't as interesting looking (my opinion) as the ZX3 I had, but Honda is a conservative company, so no surprise there. If I really needed a car right now, the Si would likely be my first choice - having been burned once by Ford, I don't think an SVT Focus is an option for me.

cdn_sir

As a brand new SiR owner, I love my car. Althought I'm being gentle with it because of run-in, this car drives great. Not only it drives great, it's good looking also (especially the interior). The thing that I wanted to say here is this, everytime a new model comes out, people always compare it with the older one. And since we're so used to seeing the older ones, the newer models will always strike us as being somewhat odd. But once we see it out for a year or so, the majority will gradually accept it, then eventually love the Si/SiR like I do.

himiler

Maybe, maybe not.

I'm someone who would still rather have a 2001 Integra GS-R instead of a 2002 RSX-S, and I'm not alone.

The fact remains that the 2002 Si is a big change from the previous Si in terms of engine performance and driving character. It might be a long while before Si enthusiasts forget about zinging up to a 8000 RPM redline.

bigbrown

Himiler, maybe you are not in the majority.

And if you don't like the new Si, maybe you should go complain to someone who cares, like Honda, especially if you cant deal with the fact that some people obviously love the new Si.

P.S. I have seen more Si's on the road than SVT's, go figure.

silver_bullet

... is much lower than Si production, plus the factory in Hermosillo seems to be slower than normal in turning them out. That likely accounts for why you haven't seen many on the road. Regionally, I think you'll find it will vary greatly - some parts of the country are more import friendly than others. You'll probably find more Hondas in California rather than in Dearborn, for example ;-)

bigbrown

So, the Si's are more popular than the SVT?

With all the crying in this forum from people that dont own Si's, I would have thought the SVT was far outselling the Si.

yugoboy

Obviously you have not read every comparison test out there, car&driver, road&track, autoweek and edmunds all had the svt rated better than the si. I dont know how it is in the good old u s of a but here in Canada, i have seen one sir to date!!!!! The 2 svt dealership's here, will only get 12 focus svt's between them!!!! Ford is only going to crank out 6 to 8000 of these puppies, compared to honda's 12000 of the si!!!! So for honda's sake I would like to think you would see more si's than svt's!!! And another thing, being lucky enough to test drive the svt and si(sir here in Canada) the focus blow's the honda away, if it was not for ford's legendary quality controls issues and reliability track record i would get an svt!!!! But that said they do not have the track record of honda, so I will have to wait either for ford to get better, or for honda to get their act together and bring over the damn type r civic!!!!! The subject is now put to rest, honda=reliability, dependability FORD=fun to drive!!!! To each his own!!!!!

bigbrown

I have not read any comparison test. Why would I? So I can read the opinion of someone like you? I can make up my own mind as to what is "fun to drive."

yugoboy

Didnt think i was trying to make up your mind for you!!!!!! I guess all those driving editors have not a clue what they are talking about!!!???? Actually why is it that people even read all those magazine's, or for that fact frequent all these car internet site's, it couldn't be to gather information about a certain car could it(It must be all the pretty picture's i figure)!!!!! Hmmm I wonder, hope you enjoy your si(u seem like one angry unsatisfied si owner to me), i will wait for the type r!!!! Cheers!!!!!

himiler

It must be hard to shift your Si, trying to keep that big chip on your shoulder...

You really do sound angry. We're not attempting to rank you out for your choice of vehicle -- it's just a discussion about the Si, okay?

For your info, I HAVE complained to Honda about the Si, and I voted with my wallet (which is all that Honda ultimately cares about).

auroraboy

The Focus SVT seems to get better ratings than the Si when you read most car magazines that have done comparisons. On the other hand, no one can deny that Ford quality has been terrible on the Focus family, with all the recalls.

To each his own. My wife ended up buying the SiR (Canadian version of the US Si). It should also be noted that in Canada, the SiR sells for $25,500 CND = $16,500US at current exchange rate. In otherwords it is underpriced versus the US Si which goes for about $19,000 US.

The Focus SVT in Canada starts at $27,240 and goes up to $29,810 with cold weather package, Moonroof package and Stereo package. With the MR package only (to compare to Si), the price is $28,820. Is it worth $3720 more than an Si? Thats up to the buyer to decide. In my case, i would not pay that much more for a car which certainly seems to have some pluses (HP, 17" wheels, styling?) but also has some definite downside (depreciation, build quality, recalls etc.)

yugoboy

You make good point's from both side's of the fence, i too agree that the svt is a bit steep in price, is all the extra goodies worth it???!!!! It would be, if it was on a more reliable name plate, ie honda!!!! But it's not, so i guess time will tell!!!! At the end of the day all honda really needs to do is, give us a base version of the hatch, and the type r!!!! For god sakes the euro's get their choice of a base model, our si model, and the type r version!!!! Not to mention 3 or 5 doors!!!! God do they ever have it good on the other side of the pond!!!! But why should i complain we get all of the cream of the crop when it come's to all these crummy suv's, ie CRV, PILOT and let's not forget the legendary ELEMENT due to be released any time now!!!!! It's time to pack my bags and take BIGBROWN with me!!!!!!?????? chow bella!!!!!

himiler

Oh, yeah, dude! I'm really digging that Element, too!

How long before we see some punk driving one with a big, double-decker wing on the roof?

As much as I admire Honda, I hope the Element is another Aztek, just so they go back to building real cars.

seminole_kev

in the States you can get a SVT Focus for less than an Si, but in Canada, it is more expensive than the Si. Doesn't make much sense. I could see how that would make the Si-R more attractive compaired to the Si's price vs. the SVT here in the states.

yugoboy

You hit the nail on the head with that one!!!! I pray every night that the element will be honda's aztek!!!!!! Car buyer's of the North America unite, together we can put a brutal end to this land of gas-guzzling suv's, unpractical model design's, and finally get all the good stuff that the rest of the world gets!!!! Honda why will you not listen to us!!!!!????

silver_bullet

Honda won't listen because they won't make as much money by catering to the enthusiast market as they will by building vehicles that sell in much larger volumes. If they had to rely on S2000s and Civic Type R's to keep them afloat, they'd be done for. The enthusiast market is very small but highly vocal, while the mainstream doesn't get very excited about cars yet keeps soaking up all the SUVs and minivans it can get. At the end of the day, they just want to make money, like every other business.

bigbrown

Ok, I have had my Si for 2 weeks now. I got 26mpg on my first full tank of gas and I have not had any oil loss yet, but I will keep an eye on it. Someone reported they thought the A/C was a bit weak, but it has performed fine for me with temps in the upper 90's and low 100's. Someone also complained about the gear shifter being too far away and being in front of the air vents. The shifter is only a few inches away from the steering wheel and well below the air vents. The vents also seem to be designed to blow more down than out, which I think works very well. It looks like they intentionally designed the vents to blow on your lap. Engine and tire noise on the highway is almost non-existant below 65mph, only becoming noticable around 80mph. The stero is nothing special, but is acceptable. There are some very functional cup holders on the floor board where a normal shifter would be, which is very nice. My two biggest complaints would be the stereo and the fact that if the car is wet at all you can not roll the windows down because the water will just drain into the car. Other than that the car is a blast to drive and very functional.

silver_bullet

Bigbrown, do you have a problem with water entering the open windows if you are moving, or only when you are at rest? I noticed the rooftop rain channels, and assumed they would keep water from coming in if you wanted to drive in a light rain with your windows opened slightly.

seminole_kev

by the way, despite what others are going on about, I'm glad you like your Si. Have fun with the new car!

bigbrown

It's when you are moving. Say it just rained, you go get in your car, roll the windows down and drive off. Water will drain into the car. More than I have ever seen in any other car. It is so much water, I've decided to just not roll the windows down until all the water seems to have blown off. Kind of a bummer, cause I actually like to drive with the windows down if its just a light rain.

silver_bullet

Considering so much of the R&D for the Si was done in the U.K., you'd think they would have made sure you could drive in a light rain with the windows open slightly That was one of the design bright spots with my ZX3 - thanks to all of the input from Ford of Europe, they got the water problem licked. I could drive my car in moderate rain with the windows open a few inches and never get wet. Too bad my car had so many other issues

bigbrown

why am i double posting?

bigbrown

BTW, I never get wet myself, but the inside of the door gets water on it, more than I would like to see. And I am talking about if I roll the windows all the way down. If I only rolled them a few inches down, it would probably be fine.

powderfinger

There are trays everywhere in the car that are very useful. There's even a "secret" tray underneath the left cupholder, on the left side of the cruise control button. I use this one
to hold objects that I would prefer not to be seen from view.

The radio center space is good for sunglasses. Then there are the console trays that are acceptable for change. After all this effort to make space within the car, they forgot to put a coin holder in the car.

powderfinger

After driving the car for one week after getting it back from the dealer, the oil level is
down to the lower "dot" on the dipstick. I can't say for sure if the oil leaked or merely was consumed by the engine. I don't have a good view of the pan seal.

In any case, I would think that after 6000 miles, it wouldn't consume any more oil.

Before I can legally request a refund, the defect has to be reported at least three times.

yugoboy

Are you thinking of returning the vechile for a refund!!!???

powderfinger

So far the response I have gotten from the dealership and Honda has been less than
responsive. They haven't admitted that there is even a defect. Unfortunately, I may have
to go the legal route to get this problem resolved. I especially will not consult Honda directly (use the lawyer instead) because of the treatment so far.

If I were any of you, I would seriously reconsider purchasing this vehicle. If you have bought the
vehicle, you have my condolences. Check your oil frequently. The main reason I think the oil is leaking so quickly is due to the fact that I drive a lot of miles and at highway speed. Others out
there may have the same defect, but it won't show up as quickly.

bigbrown

That really sucks dude, but why the assumption that it is not an isolated problem with your car? And what does the dealership say is going on with your car?

anonymousposts

I just bought my 2002 Tafetta White SI. I love it. I paid $16,300 for it and got $12,200 for my 2000 SI with 41,000 miles on it. I love the shifter and the seats and compared to the 2000 SI the stereo is more than acceptable.

As far as comparing it to the previous gen. SI no, it's not as sporty. But it's quieter, roomier, and is attractive in it's own little dust buster kind of way. And I still get the best of both worlds because my fiance has a 2000 SI as well.

bigbrown

There is also a secret hiding place under the floorboard cupholders.

si2002owner

I'm sorry to hear about your problems with the civic, but as for me the car is in excelent condition, no problems so far (other than that noise i heard once on the radio). I've put 1200 miles in two days high speed and no problems with any part of the car. It behaved very good, quiet (even though engine rev'd at 4300 rmps) nice and confortable ride. Nothing to regret about the car, and seriously i think you just got very bad luck, because so far you are the only one reporting serious problems.

nautiker

For those of you who have purchased an 02 Si, have any of you upgraded to more performance oriented or wider tires. The one thing I don't like is the 15" rims that came w/ the car. I wish Honda would have offered a 16" or 17" upgrade. The tires I have are Mich MXV4's--assuming all the SI's came w/ these. I read where a tire upgrade to 205/55 15 would help out tremendously. Seems that the suspension set-up could more than handle an upgrade of tires. Any thoughts??

After 2400 miles, I've had the oil filled once by the dealer. It was 1.5qts low and they wanted me to bring it back if it continues to drop @ this rate. Otherwise, I am extremely happy w/ the car. I definitely believe that the drivers seat is the place to be. What a great car to DRIVE!!! I'm leasing for 36mo. and it will be tough to keep my 15k /yr on track to avoid xtra mileage penalties.

anonymousposts

Even if Honda did offer a 16/17" wheel upgrade it would be so expensive that you are still better off purchasing your own wheel/tire combo. I am planning on putting 17" on mine. Maybe we'll be able to find a nice set of used Tantrums.

powderfinger

Make sure that the dealer checks your oil pan. You want to make sure that the
engine is consuming the oil, and not leaking it. After ~5,000 miles I lost over 3 quarts.
My engine leaked the oil.