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http://forum.civic-si.com/viewtopic.php?t=4331
the shots of the blue car are the Grand Am that I hit. If you go to the second page you will see the damage to it.
Good Luck!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
i really hope for you to get a new SI cu,s that what you had.
Greetings from sunny Miami.
This car is one solid little car. Safety wasn't a big factor when I bought the car but now it's one thing that ensures another SI will be parked in the driveway replacing the one that took a hard hit for me. The amazing thing was that both doors still opened and there was NO intrusion into the inside of the vehicle. Again, this is one solid little car.
I am now searching for a good deal on a new one, the dealer I bought this one from has said that they will match the deal I got when I bought the other one. Now I'm thinking that maybe I'll go with silver instead of the white. What do you all think?
I'd go with red...oh wait, they don't offer red.
I'd always choose silver over white, but that's just me.
Then take that money and go buy another one for less. That will be easy today. You say your dealer will give you the same deal he made you before? I daresay he will. He’s PRAYING you’ll accept!
Don’t do it.
There’s no question that with a bit of effort on your part, you’ll be able to get a new Si at a bargain-basement price today. The only question at this juncture is just how little you need to pay. I’d be surprised if you could not find a dealer who would sell you a new Si at his actual cost. My guess is that this would be about $17,000, give or take a few bucks (plus freight). Invoice is roughly $17,750 (look it up on Edmunds!), and I believe I read that dealer holdback is about $500 (confirm that), and Honda currently has a dealer cash incentive of $250. So, subtract that $750, and you’re left right around $17,000.
The dealer’s going to lose money since he’s been paying interest to the bank for that vehicle. But, if you don’t buy his car today, he’s going to pay yet more interest tomorrow.
He cannot afford to wait for another buyer since the overwhelming evidence is that there AREN’T any more buyers out there --- no one seems to want this wonderful car. Honda built it --- and no one’s coming! (I suspect there may be folks at Honda USA who’ll be changing employers soon.)
I’m confident I could buy a new Si today, here in the Midwest, for that price. My concern would be that I’d still have paid too much!
The 2003 models will be out shortly. What are these dealers going to do with all of those 2002 Si’s? You might want to hold out, if you can, and wait for Honda to offer a massive discount to get these cars off the dealers’ lots. Will Honda do that? I have no idea.
By the way, here in the Milwaukee, WI, area, as of last night, there are two dealers who have 15 Si’s in stock. That’s FIFTEEN(!) each. They’re in trouble. Other dealers have six, seven, and eight, respectively, according to their websites.
We have yet to see even one other Si on the roads here. Remarkable. We’re feeling very smug and exclusive motoring about in our Si. ;-) We think we’re going to keep this car for quite a while --- we may need to!
It might pay you to fly to Milwaukee and pick up a new Si here if similar conditions don’t prevail in your area.
We bought a silver Si this spring. We love this car. It’s our third Si, and the best yet; we’ve had one of each of the previous generations. Feel free to write me privately, if you’d like, at kauai215@yahoo.com.
Just checked the Edmunds data on the Si, and I see that I'd forgotten that my notion of dealer invoice INCLUDED freight. Better still for you!
Using Edmunds figures, I get $17002 total selling price, excluding tax, title, and license.
This is for a straight cash deal, of course, without the confusing issue of a trade-in.
These folks quoting $16,000 and less for new Si deals have been, apparently, referring to deals that included a trade-in. That can be misleading. It's unlikely --- at that time, anyway --- that the car could have been purchased for that price in a straight cash deal.
There's no question that there are still going to be 2002 Si's on dealers' lots after the 2003 models arrive. At that juncture one may very well be able to purchase a new 2002 Si in the mid-to-lower $16K range excluding tax, title, and license fees.
I'm sorely tempted to trade in our new Protege5 for yet another Si, assuming the dealer would rather chance trying to sell that than hang onto these albatrosses that the Si's have become.
The supply here in Atlanta is diminishing pretty fast now. I bought the first one for $16385 and the dealer said they would match that price and subtract the tint if I don't want it this time. I will probably take out the tint and add the fog lights this time though.
The P5's are nice but the engine doesn't compare to the engine in the SI. The Honda's build quality seems to be a tad bit better as well.
"I bought the first one for $16385 and the dealer said they would match that price..."
No trade-in on the first purchase? A straight cash deal?
An Atlanta dealer will now sell you a new 2002 Si, not a demo, out the door and down the road, for $16385 straight cash deal, plus tax, title, and license? Without a trade? Really?
Maybe _I_ should fly to Atlanta... ;-)
And you say the Atlanta supply of Si's is diminishing rapidly? I would hope the supply would, at those prices.
Would you please let us/me know if you actually get this deal? I'm thinking your original purchase involved a trade-in vehicle. When you get to the dealership to buy this second Si, they're going to "educate you," I'm thinking. But, if that's not the case, if you can really get a new Si for $16385 + TTL, I could use the information for local bargaining if I decide to get a second Si.
Thanks.
I did pick up another SI tonight in white .. they only had 2 silver ones and one of them had aftermarket wheels and carbon fiber trim on it and the other one had multiple dings on the passenger side door so that left the white one. The drive-out price was $18,400 which included the fog lights, mud guards, mats, and tax @ 7%. It was $200 more than the dealer I bought the first one from but that was without the mats and they already ticked me off once because of the mats so we decided not to deal with them any more.
Now .... I can't believe that someone would compare an Elantra with an SI. C'mon. 20HP is 20HP and after having a good crash in the SI and walking away without a scratch there is NO way I would even think about buying a Hyundai. And sure the Elantra is cheap at first glance but try to trade that sucker in or have an accident like I did. Hope you get gap insurance.
I have been considering the 02 Si along with the Elantra GT and Mazda P5. I recently drove the Elantra GT. Not an Si, but a pretty slick -- loaded, smooth quite ride, sure footed, reasonable acceration (8 secs according to one report) -- car for under $14K!
Kauai, how many miles do you have on yours?
The reported oil consumption concerns me. Is yours consuming oil?
Have your tracked your mpg? If so, what is it?
Now having said that I still cast jealous eyes to new Si owners cars. Still think its a great car (esp with the new braking system). Just didnt fit my life style anymore (I need more room). As far as crash saftey, new generation Elantra did very well thank you, not to mention side airbags standard...its a no brainer.
Stick with the 5W-20 grade.
“ & 97 Del Sol Si. I really like both these cars, love the VTEC rush and the 30- 40 mpg, but am getting tired of the rough & noisy ride.”
I hear you. I want handling performance, too, but I’ve come to realize that an unduly harsh ride gets old fast. Our Si rides firmly, make no mistake. But, we both consider it a reasonable trade-off on the rough bits of road. It’s live-able for us. I’d encourage you to test drive any sport-suspension car on rough roads to confirm that you can live with it over the years. I’ll add this, too: No way would we consider going to a Plus-One wheel/tire package, never mind go up to 17” wheels and tires on our Si. Then the ride would be far too harsh for us. YMMV.
The P5 is too harsh-riding for most people, I think, on rough, deteriorated roads. I suspect that may be the main reason that car is also not selling well. I’ve even contemplated replacing the wheels with a smaller diameter/taller sidewall tire combo to make it a bit more live-able (A Minus-One package!). The go-kart handling of the P5 comes at a price. If I had to drive really rough pavement for any distance and with any frequency, I wouldn’t want this car; it’ll beat you to death. It’s a joy on smooth asphalt, though.
“Kauai, how many miles do you have on yours?”
”Have your tracked your mpg? If so, what is it?”
Yes, I have. We’ve always kept a small notebook in the glovebox of every car and logged the fuel data. It’s interesting to compute mpg over time.
2002 Honda Civic Si:
Last fill-up: 4258 miles
Total fuel used since purchase: 158.6 gals.
Car was delivered with “full” tank at 9 miles. So, 4258-9=4249 miles on 158.6 gals.
Mileage: 26.79 mpg for 2002 Si
(2002 Mazda P5: 29.49 mpg over first 2887 miles.)
Driving is weighted on the highway side with not too much stop-and-go stuff.
Max mpg I’ve recorded for the Si was 33.5 mpg for a short 190 mile interstate trip --- highly suspect, so
Bear in mind that the first 1000-1500 miles on each car involved a lot of break-in driving which wreaks havoc with the mileage.
“The reported oil consumption concerns me. Is yours consuming oil?”
It appears that comes under the heading of: “They all do that.” At least when they’re new, they do. I have added EXACTLY one quart of Castrol GTX 5w-20 progressively over 4300 miles, keeping it filled to the top of the dipstick.
I have no evidence that it’s leaking oil, but I haven’t been underneath the car yet. The driveway and garage floor are pristine. My cars don’t leak oil. I won’t let them. Regular ministrations with a torque wrench quickly convince them that I mean business. ;-)
As I think of it, one of my Hondas burned almost a quart of oil over about 5000 miles. That’s extrapolating, since I’d often change the oil at less than 5000 mile intervals. In fact, I think it was the ’91 Si. It’s been a decade and my aging memory is like a sieve these days. ;-)
I strongly suspect that the new 5w-20 weight contributes to this phenomenon, too, in this new engine.
Given that the oil consumption appears to be common to all of these engines, at least early on in life, I’m not concerned. It’s a miniscule additional operating expense. I’d be surprised if it doesn’t diminish to more “normal” consumption levels as the engine gets thoroughly broken in. But, who knows?
It’s possible, I suppose, that this portends some major difficulty we’ll all be facing in the future. But, even were that to happen, I’d expect Honda will fix it, if only because it would likely screw up emissions, I’d bet. The EPA will force ‘em to fix the problem for free in that event. (In an unexpected way, the EPA has actually proven itself to be quite useful over the years, despite its rocky beginning. ;-)
What other makes/models of car are using 5w-20 oil, do you know? I wonder what their oil consumption is? The stuff is so thin, it’s almost impossible to see on the dipstick. It’s easy to imagine it being sucked into the combustion chambers past rings and valve guides, especially when the engine is relatively new. I’m more concerned about engine longevity with this thin oil.
So far, I’m unconvinced that there’s sufficient evidence to conclude there is any problem with excess oil consumption. But, of course, I do respect and understand your quite reasonable concern.
And speaking from experience I was just in an accident where I hit someone while I was going approx 40-50 MPH. I walked out without a scratch. The interior of the car was still perfect with the exception of the airbags and the cage of the vehicle was undamaged. Try that in a Hyundai. And even if you do make it out okay your pocketbook won't after they give you the actual cash value of your Hyundai.
Seriously, the Hyundai may be cheaper and it may have more room than an SI but that's where the advantages stop. MT has the Elantra at 8.4 and the SI at 7.6. The SI also out-brakes and out-slaloms the Hyundai. And it gets the same MPG even though it has 20 more HP and is heavier. TMV on the Hyundai is $13,600, I got my SI for $3,000 more. The Hyundai will depreciate that much more than the Civic in the first year. So if the Hyundai is the car for you then fine, but don't come in the Civic SI room spouting false Hyundai-isms to make yourself feel better for driving a Hyundai.
I am working to get a refund for my car due to all the oil loss problems I have had.
I might have to go to court unfortunately, but I will get an answer from Honda regarding
this issue. (My experience has been unique in that my car actually leaked oil. I wouldn't
expect others to burn this much oil since my car is defective).
I understand that most (if not all) new Ford, Honda & Toyota products spec 5W-20.
My 2002 V-6 Mazda Tribute (21,000 miles) uses about a quart between changes. I change oil every 6 months = 6000-7000 miles. This has been the same since was new.
5port: How many miles on your Elantra GT & what kind of mpg do get?
Thanks
“I understand that most (if not all) new Ford, Honda & Toyota products spec 5W-20.”
Ahh. Thanks. I deduced that quite a few other manufacturers must be specifying this oil, otherwise Wal-Mart wouldn’t be carrying so much of it. (See Wal-Mart if you’re having trouble locating 5w-20.)
Wal-Mart certainly can’t be stocking all that just for the handful of Si owners out here!
You wrote:
“My 2002 V-6 Mazda Tribute (21,000 miles) uses about a quart between changes. I change oil every 6 months = 6000-7000 miles. This has been the same since was new.”
Your Mazda oil consumption figures are more in line with what I would expect. But, you’re using 5w-30 oil in the Mazda, right? That’s what my P5 calls for. (I’ve put about 1/3 qt. Castrol in my P5 in 3000 miles now, maintaining the oil level right at the full mark on the dipstick.)
We’ve strayed somewhat from the principal issue: to buy, or not to buy. I don’t mean to pry. Just wondering if you want to “talk” more about the merits/demerits of an Si.
What did you think of my fuel economy numbers? Were they what you anticipated? EPA numbers for the Si are 26/30, so around 27-28 mpg overall average might be expected with this car, depending on your driving conditions, habits, etc. You seem concerned with fuel economy (me too), but you haven’t said how much weight you accord that issue.
We like our new Si so much that we both agree that, on balance, it’s the most enjoyable car of any that we’ve owned over the years. With any luck, it will be as bullet-proof and reliable as our previous four Civics. It’s easily better (for us) than our previous Si’s.
It’s a real sleeper, too, a Stealthmobile, if that appeals to you. Our neighbors thought it might be a hybrid car.
Our ’02 Si is an amazingly capable machine.
Catch me if you can, as I scurry down my favorite twisty bits. After awhile, I’ll pull to the side --- to permit you to catch up, of course --- and we’ll talk. I’ll be the silver-haired gentleman in the silver Si patiently awaiting your arrival.
If you’re looking for a real “driver’s car,” you’ll be hard-pressed to find better than the Si. (No, I didn’t say it’s the only good car out there.) If you could purchase a 2002 Si on clearance at around $16,000 plus TTL on a straight cash deal, no trade Wow. I’d say that would be an unparalleled value. The assumption, of course, is that the machine appeals to you, and meets your needs.
Have you test-driven an Si yet?
And to all of you on this board: I hope you have a safe and enjoyable holiday weekend.
“After 10,000 miles my Si is consuming 1 quart every 1500-2,000 miles or so.”
And
“My experience has been unique in that my car actually leaked oil.”
So, if I understand correctly, your ORIGINAL problem occurred because of leakage.
Does your Si continue to leak oil? At this rate?
Or, at 10,000 miles, do you attribute your current oil loss to consumption (burning it), as distinct from leakage?
Obviously, neither one is good. I’d be unhappy, too. But, I’m uncertain what your CURRENT problem is --- leakage, or consumption.
Still a nice car, shifter was my favorite part.
I can't say that I can tell.
I believe the car has a problem related to the leaking problem. The dealer owns one a personal vehicle, and he sees no major leak/burning of oil that he can detect.
Your mileage is less than I would have guessed. I drive with a real light touch 90% of the time and have never owned a Honda I couldn't get 40mpg out on the highway. 92 VX got 56+! But then this is a 160 HP 2L engine, so I shouldn't expect that, but I would expect to beat the EPA numbers.
I did drive the 02 Si about 3 months ago. It seems like a great ride, lots of energy, handled great, comfortable in ride & noise zone. I was disappointed in the sound system (never a Honda strength) and the high cowl and window sills -- not the great road view I have come to love in the Hondas.
I am real car afficionato that loves the combo of small car, perfomance, econonmy & new technology. I started with early Mustang GT, Volvo 1800S and graduated to Hondas in mid 80's. I have had 6 Hondas including a 82 civic wagon, 2 VXs (92 & 97) & my current 2 Sis Unfortunately My car dream would be to by 2 new cars a year, drive em for 6 months and trade up. That said I am also very Scotch. I almost bought a delightful 98 Contour SVT (another great "Stealthmobile") 6 months age. When I figure it would cost $800 a year more for gas & insurance I sadly declined! Why buy a Ford that will cost more for gas, insurance, and repairs and the roof is fixed?
Opps, I am getting off subject again!
So what will I do? Probably continue to read everything on Edmonds regarding the hatches, for another year or two until I can't stand not gettng a newer car. Then I will look for a good deal (maybe even uesed) on a 02 Si, but can't rule out the Elantra GT just yet. The oil consumption on the Si could make or break it for me. I will watch to see how it goes with you pioneers. I bought one new model with lots of teething problems (my Tribute) & don't want to repeat that.
I too considered a VW Jetta/GTI before I bought the SI but VW's reliability just scares me. Under warranty or not having to take the time to shuttle it back and forth from the dealer is just a major inconvenience.
My last SI didn't use any oil in 1500 miles and at 200 miles this one has yet to use any oil either. I think that the break-in period is VERY important and I wouldn't buy a new car with more than 20 miles on it.
Please help! My dealer has two '02's on the lot now...
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Opps I failed to mention that I have been using 5W-20 in my 97 Del Sol Si (1.6 L SOHC VTEC) with 72K on it. I change oil every 6 months (4-5K miles). It usually is down less that 1/4 qrt between changes.
With the 02 Si, I too am not concerned about oil comsumption alone (as U said, oil is cheap) but rather that oil consump could indicate some design problems that may affect engine longevity. I will stay tuned.
I financed @ 4.9%/60 months. (through Honda)
MSRP = $19,460
Invoice = $17,822
TMV = $18,952
Me = $15,980
I'll apologize ahead of time for posting this on two forums.
A) It is questionable if this is the best car available for $19,500, but for $16,000, I am positive I got the most for my money. I think the Civic competes very well with cars in that price range, but if I was going to spend almost $20k, I would have sprung for the GTI. My original plan was to buy an MR-S, and I still might have done it had I not walked into this deal on the Si.
C) I have yet to rev above 4k, even though the manual just says not to accelerate hard. However, the car has still been a lot of fun to drive, and it handles very well.
D) Are all Si owners using 91+ octane gas?
E) Are we going to get killed on resale value? Good thing this car will last awhile.
I love the interior of this car too. It was the main selling point of the car next to the price. Even if the car does depreciate drastically there will be a limit because it's a Honda. It's not going to be like a Hyunda/Kia or something. And with such a low price and good interest rate you should be able to offset the depreciation within a couple of years.
When we bought our first SI (July 27th) the dealer swore there was no special financing and when we bought the second one on Aug 28th the dealer again told us that there was no 4.9% and I couldn't find anything on the web to back me that there was 4.9% so we ended up paying 5.9% through our credit union. The only good part about financing it through the credit union is since we pay extra on the car every month in a few months we won't have to make a payment. They take all extra money and apply it to your next payment so once you get so far ahead you don't have to make a payment for months. We don't owe another payment on our Lexus until next year. That's cool.
I don't know how the payments work if you overpay for a month financing through Honda. But if I can, I'll try to pay off the car earlier. But you're right (hopefully), I figure that in 5 years (the minimum I'm hanging onto this car, I think), the resale should be ok. But I wouldn't want to be selling in a year or two.