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Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier
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The diff between Fort Manual & Honda manual will be interesting !! -:)
Now only of Honda gives better overdrive gear for comfortable crusing (which is possible with 2 litre engine) I guess revvs for 5th gear would be very low. Also SVT engine is not going to be revv-happy as si's. Honda is THE MASTER (with BMW/Frerrari) of highrev machines parts.
I hear that Si's engine is down-tuned version of S2000 ? I guess that leaves a very HIGH room for engine modfification of the order of 90-100 hp !!
Talking about tuned down, Ford took that same SVT engine and made 304 horsepower!!
I'm not saying either one is better than the other. Just pointing out a couple of facts.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The problem for Honda is not that the Si won't be a good performance car, it's that other manufacturers have begun to do what Honda used to be good at and improved on that theme. Back when the CRX Si was available, there was no similar offering from anyone else. Now Honda offers the softly sprung 01 Civic EX with economy tires and thinks it can take on a Focus. The new 02 Si will probably be a very limited production vehicle and for that reason alone, will make the SVT Focus very attractive, ragardless of resale.
Now what accountants and marketing types do decide is what models we get and as long as Honda tries to protect the Integra/RSX, it is unlikely that the Type-R civic will make way to these shores.
As for the Si versus the SVT, well we will see; both cars look like they could be a blast to drive.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
You guys all talk about the Sentra SpecV and the WRX and comparing them to the Si. I don't think this is fair because we haven't seen the pricing yet. I 'll bet money on it that the SpecV will be around $20K or a hair below. I doubt the '02 Civic Si will be much over $18K. Its strong point will also be gas mileage which is supposed to be much improved over the last gen. Si and Civics. If you look at all the '01 Civics you 'll see that mileage has improved even though they have a bigger motor with more torque. The Si will be in the 30's easily and much better in gas mileage than the Sentras or VWs. And besides how can we even compare a GTI 1.8T when its current price is over $20K now? If it gets an extra 30hp don't you think the price will go up? Maybe Honda kept the Si at 160hp as before to keep costs down and price it similarly to the '99-00 SI's. Yes, the Si has ABS and other goodies for '02 but Honda and the mags have been saying how the new i-VTEC engines cost less and they have implemented new cost effective manufacturing techniques. I wouldn't be surprised if the price is about the same as a '00 Si or around $18K. I-VTEC motors are supposed to be lighter. The Si will also have around 25-30 more ft-lbs of torque than its predecesor and if it weighs around 2500lbs, then this little car might go to 60mph in 7sec or less. Lets wait and see what happens and what sticker will be before comparing it to a WRX..
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
Anyway, I would be very surprised if the 02 Civic Si will be the same price as the 00 Civic Si which was about $18k. Why? Because the 02 Si has ABS, 16" rims, the IVTEC engine, all of which were not found on the 00 Si. Why would Honda sell a car with these options/improvements two years later for the same price? Lets compare the price of the 00 EX coupe to the 01 EX coupe. Essentially, these two models are similarly equipped except that the 01 has ABS, rear stabiliser and 15" rims. The 01 EX's price went up $850 as a result, despite losing the cost-saving (to Honda) front wishbones. Applying this (admittedly rough) pricing scheme to the Si would mean that the Si should be close to $19k. We will see.
Honda Civic Si... 5-speed, 16 inch wheels, ABS, 160 bhp, and moonroof for $19,000. But let's not forget we get the shifter in the dash. Yea, that is why we should pay more and get less for our money. Maybe that is why the Civic Si looks like a Focus. People will think they are purchasing the Focus but instead are buying a decontented Honda. At least Honda could have put in a 6-speed to make things interesting. Oh, I forgot we have to pay at least $5,000 more for a 6-speed in the Acura 'Civic Type R'.
Subaru Impreza WRX...$24,500. Likes to eat Acura RSX Type S for lunch.
Good thing I'm really sleepy...
BTW, the mileage on the Si will not be all that great because of the higher final-drive ratio that the 5-speed will require. Nightie-night!
drove a Golf Diesel--it gets around 50 mpg and has a larger hatch capacity
As a lifelong loyal Honda hatch person I was reluctant to switch, but Honda is
no longer paying attention to their customers--and they will, I believe lose people
to VW and Ford (Focus).
$15,000 US--which if I remember is much higher that they were selling
the Hatchback for in 2000. For not much more you can buy a VW Golf
Diesel hatchback that has a huge hatch area and around 50MPG!
It will be interesting to see what the car really looks like, what mpg it gets, etc.
Dave
Yes the Golf TDI may get 50mpg, but the maintenance is hideously expensive. Even at $3/gallon, a Civic would still be cheaper to run. Also, that 50mpg number is highway mileage. Real world mileage almost always comes in closer to the city (about 40mpg) mileage, since most people exceed 50mph on expressways. The EPA calculates the highway number at about 50mph. Drive any faster and your mileage will approach the city rating, faster still, and you may come in UNDER the city rating.
So Canada is getting a base Civic as well? How come we don't get that? That really sucks. I wouldn't mind getting the new HB with the 127hp motor the EX has. I 'd pay $14-15K for that. No doubt though for $15K they probably put the 115hp motor in them for Canada. The Si will probably be around $18K, maybe more so i don't know if that will fit my budget for an economy daily driver. I 'm still making payments on the GSR and for me to keep justifing the Integra as a weekend/race car to my wife, I 'd have to get a cheap daily driver to replace my '97 Civic HB and $15K would probably be the cutoff price. I 'd hate to purchase anything but Honda right now because they 've both been good to me, but I might have to. The Sentra SE (not SER) looks darn good right now. And at 7.9sec. 0-60 for $15K, it's the most bang for the buck right now. I don't know if like it's mileage rating for my long daily commute, but I hate stepping into my Civic DX after I 've driven my GSR (which is also modded..). I need cheap power :-) but with good gas mileage. I know that's almost impossible but I bet the new '02 Si will be able to deliver #s well into the 30's. If you look at articles about the base RSX with the same 160hp motor, it's supposed to get 25/33mpg which is not bad. I know I can be around 31-32 easily on the highway because I average 30mpg now with the GSR and its rating is 25/31.
Oh well, if the new Si was $15K it would be the #1 selling car in the world. Why can't they cut their profits a little and make it up in quanity? Greety Honda :-)
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
The new Si will be just under $20k (that's a guess based on the old Si price plus some extras like ABS) - Ouch !
Canada gets the lower level hatch? Looks like I may have to buy one up there and bring it back. Then I would have a Civic with daytime running lights (required in Canada). Those Canadians get all of the good stuff! Europeans get even better stuff. I think that the auto industry still thinks that Americans want softly sprung highway cruising sedans and so that's what is sent our way.
I went to Fred's TDI Forum even before I bought a Golf diesel and no one reports any greater
expense than a gasoline engine car--yes, some VW parts cost more if you buy from
dealers than Honda parts, but there are internet companies that sell the parts for less
than VW. And so far my diesel has outperformed the Honda hatchbacks I used to have!
Not only is the ride better, but the car cost around $16,000 versus $18,000 for a Honda
hatchback.
I wish the U.S. could get the 110 or 150 hp TDI over here..
Dasteph94: Could you please show me a Honda HB that costs $18K? All the '96-00 HBs were between $12-14K. They have more HP and are faster than your 90HP Diesel VW. I 've raced many TDI's with my '97 HB DX and there 's no competition. g6 Civic HB CX/DX was tested by several mags and 0-60 it ranged from 8.7-9.1 sec. depending which mag you read.
VW TDI ranged from 10-11sec. Big difference!
Maybe you were talking about the new '02 Si that might cost $18K or more (probably closer to $19K), but that's a 160hp pocket rocket that has nothing to do with a 2900lb 90HP Golf so lets not talk apples & oranges.
But since you mentioned prices, the sticker on a 5-sp Golf TDI is $18K!! You might 've paid $16K because you 're a good negotiator and I paid $12.4K for my Civic HB DX with A/C, but the fact remains the sticker for a TDI is $17,950 and the sticker for a '00 Civic DX HB was around $13K (~$14K with A/C). CX HBs were about $1,000 cheaper! So you see there 's a huge price difference. Now if the new '02 SI has a sticker of around $18-19K then that 's a bargain compared to your $17.95-18.8K (auto) TDI. The only advantage to the TDI is its gas mileage, that's it. But for me, I 'll take the extra 70hp and better handling of the '02 Si any day over a few more mpg. The new Si is supposed to be fully loaded with a lot of new amenities it didn't have before plus standard ABS. Anyway you can't compare the TDI to the Si, it's not fair to the TDI because anyway you look at it, it looses on performance, price and everything except for mileage.
You could try and compare it to the old Civic HBs, but then again you 're talking about a $4K price difference, and the TDI is still slower. MILEAGE is on your side though so enjoy it!
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
right now we have two cars; 98 ford escort 5 speed and 00 accord lx 5 speed. I paid for accord 17,400 plus fees an taxes. It was under 19,000 out the door. In 19 months we put 41k miles on accord without single problem. I use synthetic oil and change it myself. Escort has 38k miles and also no problems. It gave me a scare once at 5k when it started idling very rough but it was just a hickup. I just changed brakes on Escort; the result of my hard driving.
I test drove sentra se 5 speed and protege5. Nice cars but not enough to trade in my escort. Sentra with performance package was a little loud, road noise, I also expected a little more power. It did felt a little cheap inside, just my opinion, and tranny is not as good as in accord. The front looks o.k. to me but I do not like rear end and spoiler. Protege5 had strong pull to the right. Probably a bad apple. I do like its look better then sentra. Both cars had excellent brakes, something that Honda could use on their vehicles. If I had bought protege I would go with sedan es version. Has more room in the back and floor area of trunk it's bigger.
Since none of cars really impressed me I will wait for 02 civic si. So many people complain about power in civic and Edmunds tested ex in 7.9s 0 to 60. It's the same as sentra with better gas mileage, and probably will be better then protege 2.0. I used to own 95 civic lx 5 speed Canadian model and I liked it very much. Probably I'm pro honda but other cars don't seem to have the overall refinement of Honda. I will propoably decide between civic si and base acura rsx but since I have three kids I will end up more likely with si. I also like the look and performance of subaru wrx but it is a little expensive, parts only from the dealer, and what about resale value five years down the road? Will be many takers for hard driven turbo car with expensive parts? Engine compartment seemed to be very crowded to me. I live in South Texas so all wheel drive is not very important to me.
BTW, blue wrx 5 speed sits on subaru lot since one month. Propably I could get it for not much over dealer cost.
Does anybody knows if civic si engine will be the same as in base rsx? The specs show the torque is a little less.
Tom
I hope the Si's torque is at least 135 because this may be my next daily driver. I hope it runs on regular gas and not premium.
'06 Civic LX coupe
'11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
'13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)