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Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • sarahvtecsarahvtec Member Posts: 10
    Very True! Now that Honda's are the NEW hot rods of the 90's and now into the next century there is a certain stereotype that goes along with it. Just owning a Honda these days automatically gives you a free membership - whether you want it or not. I too see a growing number of hoodlums and punks ruining the import scene but what can you do? Also, it doesn't help when the film industry compounds the problem. From the few clips I've seen of the upcoming movie, "The fast and the furious" it would lead anyone to believe the stereotypes are true. Leave it up to a few people to ruin for the rest of us. By the way, I liked your analogy with overclocking your computer with car customizing.
  • bill_1bill_1 Member Posts: 97
    The thing is that the Coupe version of the SI was the exception. In the previous generations the SI was the hatchback version (and the CRX and Del Sol). The hatchback is a bit lighter than the sedan version so it will also be a bit peppier and handle a bit better.
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    I agree that even Si is rated 160 & SVT as 170 SI would be faster & more responsive just bcos of better mated xmission. Fuel Economy of SVT will be a BIG JOKE. Si will have a very good fule economy. Simple question is if you are going to spend same money for SVT vs SI which one would you get ? Assuming both have the same performance (which is not the case, Si wil be better), my money would go to Si due to reliability/economy & overall value over many years. AND I would have to take it in 5 times in 6 months due to funny recalls.
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    Hpw SVT is going to match the BEST manual xmission maker of the world i.e. Honda ??

    The diff between Fort Manual & Honda manual will be interesting !! -:)

    Now only of Honda gives better overdrive gear for comfortable crusing (which is possible with 2 litre engine) I guess revvs for 5th gear would be very low. Also SVT engine is not going to be revv-happy as si's. Honda is THE MASTER (with BMW/Frerrari) of highrev machines parts.

    I hear that Si's engine is down-tuned version of S2000 ? I guess that leaves a very HIGH room for engine modfification of the order of 90-100 hp !!
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    The SVT is going to have one more gear than the Si (the Si is a 5-spd, correct?). So i think the Ford 6-spd is going to help the performance a great deal. I'm pretty sure its going to be faster in a straight line than the Si, corners is a different story.

    Talking about tuned down, Ford took that same SVT engine and made 304 horsepower!!

    I'm not saying either one is better than the other. Just pointing out a couple of facts.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • ejonavinejonavin Member Posts: 36
    How much can you get out of the S2000 if you turbo it? ;-)
  • jk111jk111 Member Posts: 125
    from the looks of it, the focus svt will be cheaper than the si. I think honda will put the si within the 160hp range (cost, direct competition with RSx..), I just hope they bring civic R over here in US. The 2002 si looks pretty good in person imo, I like the on the dash shifter.
  • bill_1bill_1 Member Posts: 97
    Ford is using a Getrag 6 speed in the Focus SVT so I wouldn't be too quick to assume that the Honda manual transmission will better than than the SVTs. The main advantage the Si might have is that it will more freely rev, but if the Focus has an advantage in Torque it might not matter much. Right now, baring finding out something new about the Si, the Si will be the safe choice amongst the pocket rockets (In that it will be reliable and hold its value) but it will not be the most exciting (Focus SVT and the Sentra SE-R Spec V) nor even the most adult (The VW GTIs I think have that one pretty easy).
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    If history repeats itself, nothing holds resale value like a Honda. The SI's have been the best at this. Five years down the road a Ford will be worth VERY little!
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    SVT is going to give problems to Honda, he must be kidding. Si will have too much room for modifications. About somebody saying Ford getting 304 hp from the same engine(not available to anybody as such): There is a aftermarket kit available for Civic Lx which add 90hp ($3000), antiroll bars, stiffer suspension etc.
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    Ford doesn't have to improve the steering or chassis much on its stock Focus because it is already excellent. The Civic on the other hand is starting at a big disadvantage. The current selection of 01 Civics leaves much to be desired in the handling dept.

    The problem for Honda is not that the Si won't be a good performance car, it's that other manufacturers have begun to do what Honda used to be good at and improved on that theme. Back when the CRX Si was available, there was no similar offering from anyone else. Now Honda offers the softly sprung 01 Civic EX with economy tires and thinks it can take on a Focus. The new 02 Si will probably be a very limited production vehicle and for that reason alone, will make the SVT Focus very attractive, ragardless of resale.
  • bill_1bill_1 Member Posts: 97
    The other issue that Honda has to worry about is that the Si is going to get introduced just as the market is getting rather crowded. In the next year we are going to see the introduction of the SVT Focus, the Sentra SE-R Spec V, the Mini Cooper-S (160 supercharged engine in a car that weighs a fair bit less than most of the other cars we are looking at), etc. To make matters worse, VW seems to be returning to its proper roots with the GTI, offering an improved sport suspension with 17" wheels (This year) and big boosts in horsepower for next year (180 HP with the Turbo, 201 with the VR6). The Civic not only needs to be good, it also is going to have to be priced agressively to compete in the market.
  • jk111jk111 Member Posts: 125
    yep, civic is not going to enojoy the big market share any more. With the recent and soon to be introduction of sports compacts by various manufactures, it will be really tough for the civic to stand out. Which means they will have to bring the Type R over and cut down on the price, which is good news to us either way :D
  • bill_1bill_1 Member Posts: 97
    I think the basic problem with the Civic from the Enthusiast's perspective is that Honda did alot to make the car more attractive to the 98% of the people whose idea of customizing a car is to put a bumber sticker on it. There is nothing wrong with that philosophy it just makes it a bit harder on the Honda enthusiast.. but no harder than it is on enthusiasts of other makes that never had the wishbone suspension in the first place.

    Now what accountants and marketing types do decide is what models we get and as long as Honda tries to protect the Integra/RSX, it is unlikely that the Type-R civic will make way to these shores.
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    Honda wanted to make modifications to new Civic very difficult in order to retain that business too ?? I heard they are coming up with many mod-kits for enthusiats ?
  • tgo63tgo63 Member Posts: 16
    based on limited production number of civic is I don't think Honda has to worry about selling them. I think that 90% of customers will choose existing models and be happy with their choice. Honda is not trying to win market share battle with ford. Even if civic is will be a step slower then focus sat (not likely IMHO) I would still go for a smooth revving honda engine. Look at the current focus; based on specs it should be faster then current is but in real life civic ex is faster. For me civic will be fast enough without any mod.
  • bill_1bill_1 Member Posts: 97
    Honda is trying to win the market share battle with Ford and with GM, and Toyota. While Honda won't discount their vehicles the way that Ford or GM will, they need to retain their share of the market and if possible to grow it. Anything else and Honda is next Mazda or Nissan; ripe for one of the bigger Automakers to buy controlling stake in it.

    As for the Si versus the SVT, well we will see; both cars look like they could be a blast to drive.
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
  • jk111jk111 Member Posts: 125
    I don't know about the market share thing, after all.. why would honda WANT to lose market share to Ford or Toyota? The sad part is, car enthusiasts are a very small percent when you compare it to the regular drivers.. so there is really no point trying to satisfy us when 98% of the civic buyer don't care at all about 0-60, 1/4 mile trap..
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    The Focus is a hit because people want more than just a reliable car. They want some performance, but not necessarily "enthusiast-level" performance. Honda thinks that as long as their Civic is reliable, people will buy it despite mediocre performance. I would bet that way more than 2% of buyers are interested in a good handling car and that's why the Focus is the best selling car in Europe. Honda has underestimated people who want respectable perfomance without mods, which invariably void warranties. Bad move. Most cars are becoming increasingly more performance oriented in terms of driving dynamics while the Civic seems to stand still. How many Focus' still offer 14" wheels like the Civic LX for instance?
  • steve265steve265 Member Posts: 1
    hey a fresh new si cool! here's a new car that will rule the streets. sign me up boo ya ca
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    I should probably clarify that before I start a war. I found the comment funny. Is it a decent car? That remains to be seen. Will it "rule the streets"? Nobody seriously thinks that, right?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • tgo63tgo63 Member Posts: 16
    With car & driver reporting acura rsx base model price starting at 23,500 civic si will be a very hot item. I don't think base rsx is worth $5,000 premium over si hatch. This price is unofficial. I saw another source mentioning base rsx price starting at $20,000
  • bill_1bill_1 Member Posts: 97
    The main issue is that for approximately the same amount of money as the Si (final pricing of course is not available on most of these) you can get the Sentra SE-R Spec-V with 20 more HP and loads more torque (combined with a 6 manual Transmission), a Focus SVT (10 more HP probably more torque and a 6 speed Getrag manual) and perhaps even the VW GTI which will have as its base engine the 1.8 Turbo revised to produce 180 HP with a very nice torque curve (very flat). Yeah the Si will sell, but it is in a very different market than the last Si and Honda needs to recognize that if they want it to sell.
  • kroliphkroliph Member Posts: 75
    I'm sorry Honda. The target for the new Hot Hatchback market has moved and you have completely missed it. What is to set the new Si apart for the competition? Lets see, they took away the double-wishbone front suspension. They are still offering a five-speed manual and all the competition is offering a six-speed gear box. The styling looks like a Focus. Wait a minute, the shifter is up on the dash. That is why we should buy one! The idea of a Hot Hatchback is to offer the most performance for the least amount of money. Why is Honda afraid to dominate the Hatchback market? Bring the Civic Type R to the states and no one will be talking about anything else. Bring it for under $21,000 and people will be lined up around the block to pay MSRP for one. Honda could slash their Civic advertising budget because of all the free press they would be getting and use that money the keep the price of the Type R down. Heck, for a little more money you could buy a Subaru WRX and laugh at all the Civic Si owners in your rear view mirror. Don't worry Honda. You may have lost the target, but others can clearly see it and are hitting it.
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    Honda won't be able to import enough Si's to sell to all those people "lined up around the block" probably because the UK plant will also have to supply Europe. Honda has its hands full selling the DX/LX/EX to to Mr. and Mrs. average and doesn't need to turn to the relatively small market of "hot-rodders". Besides, Honda will sell the Civic Type R here with a 6 speed. It will simply have an Acura badge on it.
  • carguy62carguy62 Member Posts: 545
    Slightly off, but still Honda related, isn't the RSX essentially the Type R that the rest of the world gets? The pictures sure look the same.
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    The Civic Type-R (CTR) is a hatchback and has the body of the '02 Civic Si except with more side skirts and stuff. BUT, the CTR is more like the Integra Type-R and should outhandle and outbrake and probably outrun the RSX Type-S which is heavier. RSX and CTR are not the same (except for the 200hp motor). Think of the CTR as the current ITR, simple, with performance in mind and not comfort and luxury.
    You guys all talk about the Sentra SpecV and the WRX and comparing them to the Si. I don't think this is fair because we haven't seen the pricing yet. I 'll bet money on it that the SpecV will be around $20K or a hair below. I doubt the '02 Civic Si will be much over $18K. Its strong point will also be gas mileage which is supposed to be much improved over the last gen. Si and Civics. If you look at all the '01 Civics you 'll see that mileage has improved even though they have a bigger motor with more torque. The Si will be in the 30's easily and much better in gas mileage than the Sentras or VWs. And besides how can we even compare a GTI 1.8T when its current price is over $20K now? If it gets an extra 30hp don't you think the price will go up? Maybe Honda kept the Si at 160hp as before to keep costs down and price it similarly to the '99-00 SI's. Yes, the Si has ABS and other goodies for '02 but Honda and the mags have been saying how the new i-VTEC engines cost less and they have implemented new cost effective manufacturing techniques. I wouldn't be surprised if the price is about the same as a '00 Si or around $18K. I-VTEC motors are supposed to be lighter. The Si will also have around 25-30 more ft-lbs of torque than its predecesor and if it weighs around 2500lbs, then this little car might go to 60mph in 7sec or less. Lets wait and see what happens and what sticker will be before comparing it to a WRX..
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • dudkadudka Member Posts: 451
    mitzubishi is bringing over their lancer evolution to the us shore. this is evo 7 here in japan, and let me tell you it is a mean looking machine, much better looking than WRX. i think honda has to worry about it more than anything. evo and WRX are 4WD, 6 speed gear box, Si is front wheel drive and 5 spd. honda has 4 wd tranny here in japan, but for some reason doesn`t import it to us. i am more and more inclined to go with audi for my next car, simply because i want 4 wd, and i don`t want the bulky c-rv. honda has a small h-rv, but again, it is not for sale in the us, what gives? just think a 4 wd honda civic si hatch is a better car for most of the us, where it snows atleast 5 months a year.
  • carguy62carguy62 Member Posts: 545
    This is what I am referring to: http://www.vtec.net/news/items/677.html It is not the hatchback body style. Looks exactly like the RSX. Somebody said it is the Honda Integra.
  • kroliphkroliph Member Posts: 75
    I think you are missing the point mdriver. The hot hatchback market is all about the most amount of performance for the least amount of money. The Acura 'Civic Type R' doesn't qualify in that respect. I'm sure Acura will want $25K-$28K for their 'Civic Type R'. It would appear based on the price of the competition that $17K-$21K, that this is the price range of the hot Hatchback market. Anyone can spend more money and get more performance. The real challenge to this design as much performance into a hatback and still keep the price under $21K. Honda used to be the undisputed master of this. It would appear they have decided to step aside and let others lead the way. I'm certainly not going to spend 25-26K on an Acura 'Civic type R' when an incredible car like the Subaru WRX is available for the same amount of money if not a little less!!!!
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    "Step aside and let others lead the way". Isn't that what Lee Iacocca once said in a commercial?

    Anyway, I would be very surprised if the 02 Civic Si will be the same price as the 00 Civic Si which was about $18k. Why? Because the 02 Si has ABS, 16" rims, the IVTEC engine, all of which were not found on the 00 Si. Why would Honda sell a car with these options/improvements two years later for the same price? Lets compare the price of the 00 EX coupe to the 01 EX coupe. Essentially, these two models are similarly equipped except that the 01 has ABS, rear stabiliser and 15" rims. The 01 EX's price went up $850 as a result, despite losing the cost-saving (to Honda) front wishbones. Applying this (admittedly rough) pricing scheme to the Si would mean that the Si should be close to $19k. We will see.
  • kroliphkroliph Member Posts: 75
    Ford Focus SVT... 6-speed manual, 17 inch wheels, ABS, 170 bhp, and moonroof all for under $19,000.

    Honda Civic Si... 5-speed, 16 inch wheels, ABS, 160 bhp, and moonroof for $19,000. But let's not forget we get the shifter in the dash. Yea, that is why we should pay more and get less for our money. Maybe that is why the Civic Si looks like a Focus. People will think they are purchasing the Focus but instead are buying a decontented Honda. At least Honda could have put in a 6-speed to make things interesting. Oh, I forgot we have to pay at least $5,000 more for a 6-speed in the Acura 'Civic Type R'.

    Subaru Impreza WRX...$24,500. Likes to eat Acura RSX Type S for lunch.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Somebody be sure and wake me up when the Si has the RSX Type S engine, LSD and a 6-speed. Oh, what's that you're saying? Wait for the CTR?

    Good thing I'm really sleepy...

    BTW, the mileage on the Si will not be all that great because of the higher final-drive ratio that the 5-speed will require. Nightie-night!
  • wordman93wordman93 Member Posts: 36
    starts at $17,000 not over $20,000. $17,000 gets you a base model that still offers ABS. $20,000 gets you everything but leather.
  • dudkadudka Member Posts: 451
    i was reading some forums in the overseas websites, there are some complaints about the assembly quality of the british honda products. seemed like, when people compared the US made coupe, with japan made 4 door and england made hatch, the hatch would be the last in quality and reliability. this is all gen 6, maybe gen 7 hatch will be different. keep our fingers crossed.
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    Interestingly, I've heard the opposite about UK Hondas. In fact, auto writers always complain about the US made Civics (coupes only) because of their lower build quality. Maybe we have a case of national pride going on here. But I wouldn't worry too much about where the car is assembled, moreover, I would be more concerned about the Civic's apparent slip in engineering design and lower quality parts.
  • dasteph94dasteph94 Member Posts: 20
    I was considering getting the new Honda Civic hatchback until I visited VW and
    drove a Golf Diesel--it gets around 50 mpg and has a larger hatch capacity

    As a lifelong loyal Honda hatch person I was reluctant to switch, but Honda is
    no longer paying attention to their customers--and they will, I believe lose people
    to VW and Ford (Focus).
  • dasteph94dasteph94 Member Posts: 20
    A Canadian newspaper is reporting that the new Honda Hatch will be around
    $15,000 US--which if I remember is much higher that they were selling
    the Hatchback for in 2000. For not much more you can buy a VW Golf
    Diesel hatchback that has a huge hatch area and around 50MPG!

    It will be interesting to see what the car really looks like, what mpg it gets, etc.

    Dave
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    Maybe $15k for a base Civic 3-dr hatch (which won't be sold in the US) but not the Si. We already know what it looks like - it's already available in Europe. Honda has already lost sales (01 Civic) which are down from last year. That's incredible since the 01 is a new design and last year's was 5 years old!

    Yes the Golf TDI may get 50mpg, but the maintenance is hideously expensive. Even at $3/gallon, a Civic would still be cheaper to run. Also, that 50mpg number is highway mileage. Real world mileage almost always comes in closer to the city (about 40mpg) mileage, since most people exceed 50mph on expressways. The EPA calculates the highway number at about 50mph. Drive any faster and your mileage will approach the city rating, faster still, and you may come in UNDER the city rating.
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    Yep, my neighbor has a green Golf TDI and says he averages 40mpg. The most he ever got was 46 hwy. When I asked him how fast it was he looked at me funny and said I didn't buy it for speed, I bought it for mileage and some other smart remark.. I guess he didn't want to comment on the 10.5 sec. 0-60 #s.
    So Canada is getting a base Civic as well? How come we don't get that? That really sucks. I wouldn't mind getting the new HB with the 127hp motor the EX has. I 'd pay $14-15K for that. No doubt though for $15K they probably put the 115hp motor in them for Canada. The Si will probably be around $18K, maybe more so i don't know if that will fit my budget for an economy daily driver. I 'm still making payments on the GSR and for me to keep justifing the Integra as a weekend/race car to my wife, I 'd have to get a cheap daily driver to replace my '97 Civic HB and $15K would probably be the cutoff price. I 'd hate to purchase anything but Honda right now because they 've both been good to me, but I might have to. The Sentra SE (not SER) looks darn good right now. And at 7.9sec. 0-60 for $15K, it's the most bang for the buck right now. I don't know if like it's mileage rating for my long daily commute, but I hate stepping into my Civic DX after I 've driven my GSR (which is also modded..). I need cheap power :-) but with good gas mileage. I know that's almost impossible but I bet the new '02 Si will be able to deliver #s well into the 30's. If you look at articles about the base RSX with the same 160hp motor, it's supposed to get 25/33mpg which is not bad. I know I can be around 31-32 easily on the highway because I average 30mpg now with the GSR and its rating is 25/31.
    Oh well, if the new Si was $15K it would be the #1 selling car in the world. Why can't they cut their profits a little and make it up in quanity? Greety Honda :-)
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    Honda is pretty much at maximum capacity now, so no need to lower the price.

    The new Si will be just under $20k (that's a guess based on the old Si price plus some extras like ABS) - Ouch !

    Canada gets the lower level hatch? Looks like I may have to buy one up there and bring it back. Then I would have a Civic with daytime running lights (required in Canada). Those Canadians get all of the good stuff! Europeans get even better stuff. I think that the auto industry still thinks that Americans want softly sprung highway cruising sedans and so that's what is sent our way.
  • carguy62carguy62 Member Posts: 545
    You'll also have a speedo in km/h and an odo in km. I am sure there are other differences. Know anyone who has ever done this?
  • dasteph94dasteph94 Member Posts: 20
    Well, I don't know where you got the idea that a Golf diesel is hideously expensive to maintain--
    I went to Fred's TDI Forum even before I bought a Golf diesel and no one reports any greater
    expense than a gasoline engine car--yes, some VW parts cost more if you buy from
    dealers than Honda parts, but there are internet companies that sell the parts for less
    than VW. And so far my diesel has outperformed the Honda hatchbacks I used to have!
    Not only is the ride better, but the car cost around $16,000 versus $18,000 for a Honda
    hatchback.
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    Somebody help me on this one, but I think there is some kind of special filter that has to be changed every 20k mi or so, and is not something available at your local 10 min oil change place. Also, some other fluids may require more frequent changing over a gas engine. But I still think that the difference between 32mpg (Civic) and 41mpg (TDI) city ratings, is not enough to justify the expense. Maybe if gas was $4/Gal like in Europe, but not $1.80/Gal. I do agree with you that the Golf is a nicer car in most other areas than the Civic.
  • wordman93wordman93 Member Posts: 36
    I don't know of any special filter that needs to be changed on VW Diesels and my car has over 30k. The main expense that I keep hearing about is the timing belt which can run anywhere from $250-$400 dollars depending on where you go. That's not a whole lot different from gas engines. I guess it all depends on how long a person plans to keep his or her car.

    I wish the U.S. could get the 110 or 150 hp TDI over here..
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    ok, this is turning into VW vs. Honda again. Why is it the VW guys always come into a Honda topic and start something..

    Dasteph94: Could you please show me a Honda HB that costs $18K? All the '96-00 HBs were between $12-14K. They have more HP and are faster than your 90HP Diesel VW. I 've raced many TDI's with my '97 HB DX and there 's no competition. g6 Civic HB CX/DX was tested by several mags and 0-60 it ranged from 8.7-9.1 sec. depending which mag you read.
    VW TDI ranged from 10-11sec. Big difference!

    Maybe you were talking about the new '02 Si that might cost $18K or more (probably closer to $19K), but that's a 160hp pocket rocket that has nothing to do with a 2900lb 90HP Golf so lets not talk apples & oranges.
    But since you mentioned prices, the sticker on a 5-sp Golf TDI is $18K!! You might 've paid $16K because you 're a good negotiator and I paid $12.4K for my Civic HB DX with A/C, but the fact remains the sticker for a TDI is $17,950 and the sticker for a '00 Civic DX HB was around $13K (~$14K with A/C). CX HBs were about $1,000 cheaper! So you see there 's a huge price difference. Now if the new '02 SI has a sticker of around $18-19K then that 's a bargain compared to your $17.95-18.8K (auto) TDI. The only advantage to the TDI is its gas mileage, that's it. But for me, I 'll take the extra 70hp and better handling of the '02 Si any day over a few more mpg. The new Si is supposed to be fully loaded with a lot of new amenities it didn't have before plus standard ABS. Anyway you can't compare the TDI to the Si, it's not fair to the TDI because anyway you look at it, it looses on performance, price and everything except for mileage.
    You could try and compare it to the old Civic HBs, but then again you 're talking about a $4K price difference, and the TDI is still slower. MILEAGE is on your side though so enjoy it!
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • tgo63tgo63 Member Posts: 16
    hello there:
    right now we have two cars; 98 ford escort 5 speed and 00 accord lx 5 speed. I paid for accord 17,400 plus fees an taxes. It was under 19,000 out the door. In 19 months we put 41k miles on accord without single problem. I use synthetic oil and change it myself. Escort has 38k miles and also no problems. It gave me a scare once at 5k when it started idling very rough but it was just a hickup. I just changed brakes on Escort; the result of my hard driving.
    I test drove sentra se 5 speed and protege5. Nice cars but not enough to trade in my escort. Sentra with performance package was a little loud, road noise, I also expected a little more power. It did felt a little cheap inside, just my opinion, and tranny is not as good as in accord. The front looks o.k. to me but I do not like rear end and spoiler. Protege5 had strong pull to the right. Probably a bad apple. I do like its look better then sentra. Both cars had excellent brakes, something that Honda could use on their vehicles. If I had bought protege I would go with sedan es version. Has more room in the back and floor area of trunk it's bigger.
    Since none of cars really impressed me I will wait for 02 civic si. So many people complain about power in civic and Edmunds tested ex in 7.9s 0 to 60. It's the same as sentra with better gas mileage, and probably will be better then protege 2.0. I used to own 95 civic lx 5 speed Canadian model and I liked it very much. Probably I'm pro honda but other cars don't seem to have the overall refinement of Honda. I will propoably decide between civic si and base acura rsx but since I have three kids I will end up more likely with si. I also like the look and performance of subaru wrx but it is a little expensive, parts only from the dealer, and what about resale value five years down the road? Will be many takers for hard driven turbo car with expensive parts? Engine compartment seemed to be very crowded to me. I live in South Texas so all wheel drive is not very important to me.
    BTW, blue wrx 5 speed sits on subaru lot since one month. Propably I could get it for not much over dealer cost.
    Does anybody knows if civic si engine will be the same as in base rsx? The specs show the torque is a little less.
    Tom
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    on the '02 Si? I thought the base RSX motor is supposed to be identical to the SI's, 141ft-lbs. Maybe they gave the RSX a little more torque since it will be heavier. I don't expect the '02 Si HB to be more than 2600lbs but do expect the RSX to be at least 2700lbs (current GSR is 2670).
    I hope the Si's torque is at least 135 because this may be my next daily driver. I hope it runs on regular gas and not premium.
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
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