Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    The Civic is a relatively poor seller in the UK (and rest of Europe) because of the many other fine hatchbacks offered by other European and Japanese makers that are not sold in the US. That's probably why the UK plant is under capacity.

    If Honda is only sending 10,000 units here, then it will probably have the same status as the S2000, each dealer will get a few and they will charge over sticker.

    As far as the price goes, I don't get it. $17,500 topping out at $20,000? The only option I believe is side-SRS which is $250 on the other Civics. Typically, Hondas have no options anyway except for automatic (not offered on Si) and dealer add-on things like fog lights. The $17,500 is probably without freight, so that may bring it to $18k, plus limited availability with add another $1k or $2k. So think of it as a $20k car. You might as well get the RSX.
  • novcenthusiastnovcenthusiast Member Posts: 80
    17.5 is expensive? What do you think it should cost?

    mdriver: how many US Honda Dealers do you think there are? If Honda imports 10-12k I'd imagine each dealer, on average, at least getting 6. Higher volume dealers would get more. And with other pocket rockets available they may not be able to add their markup. But I guess that will depend on where you live.
  • biker16biker16 Member Posts: 26
    the focus sold 945.000 units worldwide last year
    no the bestseller in europe the golf is
    best seller in UK

    focus was scheduled to pass the F150 as the best selling vehicle in the world but may not due to the US recession ; -). It still may happen in 2001 for the Focus to sell over 1million units.

    It is the best selling car in the world. won more awards than any car in history.

    The main reason the civic sells better here is because of Honda's image.

    the European Focus is still far superior to anything honda has done in that market, the US focus is less superior, but in 2003 new engines will arrive with 145 hp, 140lbs of torque and 40mpg. :-P V-TEC that.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    ...is expensive for a compact hatchback. The upcoming Sentra SE-R boasts 180hp and should cost the same, or even less. The last generation Si costed about the same---and I thought that too was expensive. If it weren't for the unique hot blue color and the badge that said "Si", there was nothing else that separated it from the tamed Civic coupes. Its only saving grace was the technologically advanced engine. To price it 2-3 grand more than a regular Civic just because it bumped out roughly 50 more horsepower (and nothing else to justify the increase in price) is corporate piracy. 2k for 50 extra horses, an 'Si' badge, chrome exhaust and everything else you could've had with an EX coupe? Too much.

    As mdriver said, if Honda plans to only send over a handful of the 2002 SI's, paying 17.5K for it is wishful thinking after you factor in the freight and delivery charge, taxes, and dealer markups.

    biker-The main reason why the Civic does so well here is because of Ford. Supposedly, Ford of Europe is completely different from Ford of the U.S. I cannot confirm this since I've never been to Europe, but this is what was said about Ford in other forums. The build quality of the Focus that's assembled in Europe is allegedly far superior to the ones assembled in the U.S.

    I personally like the Focus. All the reviews are good, the price is decent and you get at least some performance from it (as opposed to a Civic). I just don't like the styling, both exterior and interior.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Tis you, my friend that may be tasting the old bong water...there is nor has there been any low interest financing offered on 2001 civics!
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Doesn't Honda's End of Year clearance sale (which offers low APR financing) count? It just started about two weeks ago in my area. The sale is for every model from the Honda brand.
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    Diploid...no there is no APR for civic anywhere.
    ISELL: When the 2002 Civic coming in ? My friend is waiting for a 2002 model
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    What's so special about 2002? They just redesigned the thing...
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    If you are talking about the non-Si Civics, then the 2002s are very special. Maybe the radio ,fuel guage and ECM problems will be fixed. It's worth waiting for the 2002s vs. getting a leftover 2001.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I didn't even know about the Civic's ECM problems (could it be because I don't own one?). I was expecting slight increase in HP, or maybe leather option in the non-EX models.
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    My interest is completely economical...i.e. depreciation for 2001 vs 2002. My friend is buying a new civic lx. He is going to keep it for 2 years...would be better if he got 2002 !

    ISELL: Any information when 2002s are coming out ? I know there are 2002 Accord already on the lot !
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    We got our first load of 2002 Accords last week. don't expect any Civics until early next month.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    your friend is going to have a hard time selling his Civic. The last time I went car shopping, I had my mind on a used Honda. When the difference between a 2 year old Honda and a brand new one was roughly $3,000.00, I went for the brand new car. I think he'd get rid of the car faster by simply trading it in.
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    quite a few guys wanting to buy an used Civic from private party..! That saves atleast $800 in tax & atleast 500-800 dealer profit (kind of private party & Dealer price on edmunds) So this savings of $1300-1500 is good enough to go for !!
  • sunilbsunilb Member Posts: 407
    so the newest Si will have 130lb/ft of torque and 160hp, at a price of $17.5K... while looking like a Focus! It's performance is definitely an improvement over the last one, but the looks are a bummer and the competition is going to be fierce:

    I just read (C&D?) that the Sentra SE-R will be getting here sooner [Fall, as opposed to the Si's winter debut], cost the same, and have significantly better performance (I believed they mentioned that the V-Spec would even have LSD)!

    The pros of the Si (hatchback, resale) don't really seem to outweigh the cons in this case.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Yes, but the Sentra's back end is hideous. If you're going to leave people in the dust, at least have a good showing for it.
  • civic_cx_92civic_cx_92 Member Posts: 87
    At auto shows and media previews this year, Nissan said the 4-cylinder engine in the upcoming 2002 Altima midsize sedan would produce 180 horsepower. Now, with the Altima weeks away from dealerships, Nissan has lowered that figure to a still-impressive 175 horsepower. In addition to the Altima, the 2002 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V will also use the 2.5-liter, 4-cylinder engine.

    http://www.auto.com/industry/nissan15_20010815.htm

    I like the big displacement four cylinder engine in Nissan, wished Honda'd put a 2 liter in '92 model civics. Maybe the '03 should get the 2.3 liter VTEC from '01 Accord (I like the 148 hp and 148 lb.-ft torque).

    I want a Honda, not a Nissan.
  • sunilbsunilb Member Posts: 407
    don't mean to change the topic, but...

    okay, I'm just curious: why do you prefer honda over nissan? both are japanese, both are excellent makes.

    hondas have better resale value, but i've never understood why.

    diploid: yes, the sentra has an ugly butt.... but one would really be purchasing the car for it's significantly superior price/performance ratio, and i think the ugly butt could be tolerated.
  • civic_cx_92civic_cx_92 Member Posts: 87
    My preference is because I like the high rpm engines... my first test drive was new 84 civic that was spun to 7200 rpm on test drive. I've owned 1985 Civic S, 1989 Prelude Si, and this is my third Honda. They've been affordable and fun to drive cars compared to any others I've driven (friends and family): 79 Fox GTI, 80 200SX, 82 280ZX, 82 Sentra, 85 MR2, 87 535i, 87 FX16, 90 929 S, 94LT1, 95 Avalon, 00 C5, 00 E320.
    I liked the FX-16 and MR2...Yamaha powerplants rocks.
    Maybe because hondas are reliable and fun they have loyal following.
    Maybe because of Hondas racing heritage.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    True, the car's engine and performance will significantly outweigh the aesthetic properties of the Nissan, but you could always wait for the Lancer EVO...
  • sunilbsunilb Member Posts: 407
    ah... true. But I suspect the EVO (as well as the STi) to cost about $10K more than the Nissan.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Yikes. I'm not sure if it's worth THAT much.
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    Lancer. Out of all possible names, why did they pick that one? The name reminds me of the Dodge Lancer. Bad reminder.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    For cars from different automotive companies to share a model name?
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    From what I've gathered on the internet, the quarter mile and 0-60 times aren't looking real good on the Corolla XRS either. I would have expected a little better with the lower weight and higher horsepower, relative to the SI. I think another factor at the time I drove the Corolla XRS was that I threw my back out that week. The XRS lumbar support felt real good at the time. Now, the comfort is secondary again.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    DCX own's roughly 40% of Mitsubishi so use of the Lancer name is likely permitted by Daimler.

    Anyone no exactly when the Si will be available?
  • sunilbsunilb Member Posts: 407
    I've heard early 2002. I'm guessing that means Feb. or March.

    So, this will basically be a variant [in terms of body style] of the base RSX (without some of the amenities), right? Not sure I see the point.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    Although the appearance will differ, it does make me wonder what kind of cross shopping there will be between the Si and the RSX. I'd guess that Honda will pitch the Si as more of a no frills (relatively speaking) performance car, with the RSX as being more luxury oriented. All depends on whether you want an "H" or an "A" on the nose of your car, I suppose...
  • novcenthusiastnovcenthusiast Member Posts: 80
    the diff. in price will include less torque for the Si, but more interior room. My guess is adults will be able to sit in the back of the Si. I do admit I am basing this on my knowledge of the Integra, but with the wheelbase unchanged I assume rear legroom is the same, however with more headroom as a consequence of the taller roof.

    off-topic gripe:
    Don't really understand 2+2's. I say chuck the back seats and give me more cargo space.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The point of the Civic Si vs. RSX and duplication is that Honda has a heck of a lot more Honda dealers than Acura dealers and they typically serve buyers of different incomes, ages, and etc..
    Just as hatchbacks have started to increase in popularity here is Honda without a hatchback.

    I tried in 94 to buy a Civic Si hatchback and could not get one. Dealers said they were not very popular. When I asked if they had received any they said yes, but they sold very quickly. How could a vehicle that was unavailable ever be popular I pondered?
    Honda, Toyota, VW and others are terrible in obtaining specific options on vehicles. You take what is on the lot, forget about ordering something.

    I hope there are a lot of Civic Si available so that anyone who wants one will be able to get one.
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    You have never been able to factory order a Honda. They come in a take-it-or-leave-it predefined model. Only the dealer adds on options like remote entry and CD player after the car is delivered.

    The new Si will be in limited supply (around 10K units/yr for the US). So that may push the price up to base RSX price, which it will be already close to without any mark up.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    With roughly 100 dealers in the country, that means an average of ten per dealer. Less than one a month to sell.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Sounds like anyone who is really interested should lay down a deposit and take a number.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    ... another golden opportunity to get reamed by your friendly neighborhood Honda dealer.
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    Ten X 100 = 1,000. I said there may only be 10,000 imported Si not 1,000. I'm sure there are more than 100 Honda dealers in the U.S. Anyway, there will not be nearly as many Sis to choose from as there will be EXs, LXs and DXs.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Of course I meant 1000 dealers.

    Silver bullet..."reamed"? Well, I'm sure the dealers will try to maximize their profits on these. Wouldn't you?

    Nobody makes anybody buy one either.
  • civic_cx_92civic_cx_92 Member Posts: 87
    Ford expects to sell about 7,500 SVT Focus hatchbacks per year. The vehicle is produced in Hermosillo, Mexico, and has a starting price of about $18,000.

    How many Ford dealers are there and will the dealers maximize their profits?

    check your Civic Si figures..."sales target of only 12,000 units"

    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/firstlook/articles/46560/article.html
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    If I were a dealer, I wouldn't be so short sighted by trying to hit a home run off every customer who walks in the door. By "reamed", I'm referring to selling cars over MSRP, or with unwanted mandatory add-ons. In the long run, the bad feelings created by these practices result in disgruntled customers and lost future sales.
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    2002 Civic WILL have a retunes stiffer suspesion (autonews.com article) which weas confirmed by my contact at the dealership! Also all civics except the DX will have rear antiroll bar standard! (Interior material quality will be up a bit also)
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Stiffer suspension, upgraded interior bits, rear stabilizer bar? Honda blinked!
  • hondavtechondavtec Member Posts: 2
    The Temple of VTEC (www.vtec.net) recently posted a news item stating that the magazine Grassroots Motorsports had a First Drive Report on the upcoming Si. Does anyone know if Grassroots Motorsports actually test drove the car or is simply regurgitating information that has been circulating around the net? (Or better yet, can someone find a copy of the magazine and post the article?)
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    Since the Si won't be available for at least half a year, I doubt if anyone has had a chance to drive a non-prototype. There have been a number of Euro tests about the Type R which is currently available there. That should give us a clue about the Si's performance. An even better prediction is to drive the current RSX. The 2002 Si's performance will probably be identical to the RSX.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    The Civic Si has 10 lbs less torque than the base RSX. hmm...$5,000 for 10 more lbs on the RSX. That's kinda expensive.
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    More like $2,000 more. Base RSX is just over $20k. Civic Si will probably be just over $18k.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    If Honda can bring the hatchback here in Si form, why not also sell a DX? Yeah, I know the CX and DX didn't do too well in the last body, but I think that has as much to do with availability as anything (i.e., if there are none on the lot, nobody can buy one). Also, hatchback popularity in general is going up. People are realizing their practicality compared to two-door coupes. Honda hatches have traditionally been among the most fuel-efficient 'regular' cars available (not hybrid or a 3-cylinder deathtrap), which certainly may come into play again if fuel prices increase. We are, after all, going to war in the middle east, this should affect fuel prices.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I'm sure you can get an Si for 17K.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Honda's too busy building CRV's for the US at the Swindon plant. Honda apparently considers ANY hatchback model too low-volume (in terms of sales) to warrant signifcant differences in trim levels, as last seen in the '92-'95 Civic. That generation's hatch even had a wheelbase that wasn't shared by either the coupe or sedan.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    that the 92-95 hatch sold relatively well, and the 96 on bombed (at least from the lack of them on roads here in Chicago). I thought the design of the last gen was much better, as the small clam shell and sloping roof made it impossible to utilitze the hatch to a great extent on the 92-95 models. One thing Honda ought to bring back are the collapsing outside mirrors.
    The 96 was simple and roomy. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens, maybe if the Si does well, the others will follow.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I've seen mirrors that fold inwards, but collapsing ones?
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    ........the ones that 'collapse' are the mirrors that DON'T fold in, especially if you live in the city on a narrow street.
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