Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

gee35coupe

Both of them. After break in they stop burning it entirely.

todd48

It's now August 1st and the $750 has cash back has expired on the Si, so does anyone know what the new offer is? Higher incentive + the 1.9% financing??

mdriver

Hmmm. It seems as though a lot of people describe the Si as a good drive for "day to day" performance. Trouble is, there are many cars like that and the Si is supposed to be the sporty Civic. I've read numerous reports and comparisons including Edmunds' own who descibe the car as driving much like a regular Civic. Acceleration is anemic because the Si has about a 200lb weight gain over the EX. Also, for that anemic power, Si owners suffer from dismal highway mileage of 30. That's exactly the same as the 240 hp Accord V6! The tires are the other disappointment. Honda consistently under-sizes the wheels of their cars (just look at the new Acura TL for instance). It's a shame that you can get a Sentra Type R with awesome 17" wheels standard, but have to settle for pedestrian 15" all seasons on the Si. No wonder the 99-00 Si is still selling for the price it was when new. And don't forget, a low price on a new Si sounds great, but if you trade it in, you'll get none of that Honda resale value back.

rivertown

"No wonder the 99-00 Si is still selling for the price it was when new. And don't forget, a low price on a new Si sounds great, but if you trade it in, you'll get none of that Honda resale value back."

Got any proof?

My '99 Si (totaled after 3 1/2 years) retained value at 80+%, which was great but nowhere near "the price it was when new".
My '02 Si TMV retail used is higher than what I paid new in December.

anonymousposts

I received $13500 in trade for my 02 SI with a couple of scratches and 12,000 miles on it. I only paid $16,300. Not bad. Much better than the 01 Protege and the 00 Silverado we parted with in the past.

The SI is more substantial feeling than regular Civics, partly due to it's weight gain. It never felt uncomposed and was a blast to toss around corners thanks to its torque advantage over the 99-00 SI. The 99-00 was a blast to drive and throw around corners but so is the 02-03, just in a different way.

That Sentra also has a rear axle to go with it's 17" wheels. At least you can add 17" wheels to an SI, can't switch out the suspension in a Sentra. The Acura TL-S has 17" wheels ... what more do you need for a lux-sport sedan?

As for the gas mileage, it gets 4-5 more MPG than the Focus SVT while only giving up a couple of tenths to 60.

muffin_man

I've spent a lot of time behind the wheel of both the Si and the Ex, and there is a big difference in performance. 200 pounds doesn't make up for the very large difference in horsepower and torque. If you get the Si at a discounted price, the resale is fine. I paid $16,000 for mine, and at 10k, I was offered $15,000 on a trade in (I was just testing the waters). I have no problem with that. Car and Driver liked the Si better than the 180 hp GTI, it is more than just a good daily driver.

There are plenty of reasons why the Si doesn't sell well, but mostly because people wanted an Si with a super high redline. The 1/4 mile time is only a 10th of a second less than the 2000, but with a much more usable powerband, a nicer interior, better seats, better shifter, and hatchback versatility.

30 mpg isn't great, but it is as good or better than everything else in the class. Compare with the SE-R, GTI, SVT or whatever.

The Si's chief failing is that it is not the Type-R that people wanted. It is an excellent car.

anonymousposts

Those seats and that shifter were AWESOME. Probably the 2 things I miss most about the car. That and it's driving position.

mdriver

To the person who said he (or maybe she, but probably not) had driven both the EX (01 or newer) and the Si (02 or newer):

I have a 02 EX 5sp which has also benefitted from a torque "widening" over the old 1.6L engine. The single most annoying problem with the EX is the rear suspension. The damping control feels like it should have been made for a Buick Roadmaster. The rear is anything but contolled when driving over dips in the road with a floaty feel that is the polar opposite of sporty. My question: Since the Si has the same suspension (but probably more firmly sprung), does the rear of the Si show any of the same bad habits as the EX?

rivertown

is nice and tight.

LOL.

muffin_man

I know what you are referring to in the coupe/sedan, but I haven't noticed it in the rear end of the Si. I think that the floaty problem could be easily solved with different springs, but I haven't researched it very much.

As far as the Si handling goes, the stock tires are the biggest limiting factor.

jimc93si

Hi Gang.
I finally found a car that moved me enough to go through the hassle of buying it. It was a lease return 2000 Integra GSR with 37K miles on it. Pretty much in mint condition for 12.5K. It was in the Credit Union's repo lot and they didn't even know the difference between an LS and the 170hp GSR. After signing the papers a week later the lot guy said he re-appraised it at 16.5K, but it was too late for him They still made money.
 I couldn't get Acura to go below 19.5K on the base RSX and the 4 Honda dealers I went to wanted 17.5K for the Civic Si, no 02s left in the area.
 Maybe it was me, but the Honda salesmen kept trying to get me to buy an Accord EX or something in that price bracket, and when I'd show interest in the Si they treated it as a throw-away and didn't care if I bought one or not. Not enough commission, I guess. Besides, what would an old guy like me want with an Si?
My '93 Si is sitting in the driveway, feeling neglected.

dudka

congratualtions on your purchase, I can't believe you snatched a 2000 GSR for $12K. Now get a really good alarm and maybe a secret fuel pump switch. Credit Union may not have know what GSR was, but thieves do. It may also be advised to remove GSR emlems, and place an LS instead. It may fool rookies.

The reason dealers were pushing the accord EX, is probably they have a few 2003's left, they have to get rid of them to get the 2004 allotment. It is especially difficult to sell Accord EX with 5 spd, I heard there are some nice incentives for the dealer to sell those. We are talking about Accord EX with 5 spd, for $17K at 2.9% APR. I am tempted, but I did not like my first drive in it last year, it felt like my grandma's buick.

gee35coupe

Since they don't make manual transmisioned models. And I've never seen any Buick come in first in a test against other cars that supposedly "handle".

muffin_man

Congratulations, fantastic deal.

jimc93si

Thanks for the feedback. I loved my Civic Si, but after driving this GSR for a few days I can't believe the improved driving experience. The power is right there all the time. It's so smooth around corners and shifting around 4K.
 My son, who now has an MR2 turbo, wants me to take it to the track. I don't think so. This feels like a new car and I don't want to abuse it. What I want to do is take a nice leisurely cruise up to Va. this fall. Go up on 301 though all the little towns and then back along the coast.
 The black leather seats are a bit much in this Florida sun. I don't use the AC unless there's a female in the car, so I just cover the seat with a beach towel and that keeps my shirt pretty dry.
 Regardless of the great price, this is perfect car for my style of driving. I have to sell my old Civic and clear out the other half of the garage out so I can put this one in there too.
 I'm thinking of getting a lojack eventually, but maybe just one of those locking bars for the steering wheel for now. I live in one of those deed-restricted neighborhoods on a back street so I don't have to worry too much while at home. The first day home I lost the keys and 1/2 hour later found them hanging from the lock in the trunk. That was REALLY stupid.
 There might be a few of these lease returns available around the country. If you look really hard you might get lucky too. Definitely more fun than the Accord EX. Much lighter, sportier suspension and the power/weight ratio is probably better.

gee35coupe

I had one of those. Loved that car.

hondasellertx

Those steering wheel bars are a joke. They sell them the way a magician fools people, by redirection. Yes, the bar is case hardened, can't be cut with a hacksaw, yada yada yada. What they don't point out is the empty tube the bar slides out of, sort of like a drinking straw. That tube, once the bar has been slid out of it, can be defeated much more easily than the bar can. That's the part the thieves will work on and cut through. Get a good alarm at the least and the alarm along with a lojack at the most. Congrats on the cool car.

kauai215

Congratulations on your new car! I've never had the pleasure of driving one of those, but I understand they're outstanding cars.

Jim, why don't you use your AC? In muggy, hot, steamy Florida?

In any case, you do know that it's advisable to run the AC at least once a week for about ten minutes, or so, right? Apparently, the refrigerant has lubricant in it that needs to be circulated regularly by running the system. Failure to do so leads to the seals drying out and the refrigerant escaping in consequence. Then when you need it -- to cool off your females (no further comment!) -- you won't have it, and then what? You'll likely be subject to a lot of abuse, I expect! ;-)

Enjoy your new Honda.

rivertown

Abuse by hot females..... That's bad?

The Club.... Just inconvenient to use regularly. The other good defeat is to cut through the steering wheel.
Car alarms.... I hate 'em. They false so often that I think they aren't much of a deterrent, and the pro theives say they can defeat 'em in less than 60 secs.
Lojack.... Yuck! I may get my car back (after it's screwed up and before it's totalled) is my take.
If I weren't happy with the fuel pump immobilizer and blinking LED on my Si radio head unit (I am), I'd add a decoy blinker and some phoney alarm stickers. A hidden fuel pump cutoff switch is as far as I'd go if the car didn't have the immobilizer.

Congrats on your find, Jim!

crx1989

I'm really tempted to go for the good deal on a Civic Si, but I'll be bummed if Honda comes out with a US-spec Si-R in a couple of months.

Anyone heard any rumors? Is the Si-R going to be available here - or should I go for the good deal now?

mdriver

Yes, the "Si-R" is available right now. It's known as the Acura RSX Type S in this country. If Honda brought over the Civic "R", it would cost about the same as the Acura, so just get the RSX Type S.

The best protection against a car theif is to have good insurance. Alarms and steering locks (a thief can cut thru the steering wheel itself in seconds) don't work well. And the insurance companies know that because they offer virtually no discount if you have these "security" devices on your car.

jimc93si

Thanks everyone for the comments. After a major argument with my wife, I finally got to keep the new car in the garage next to the old Civic. I spent several hours polishing and cleaning it and then on a whim went and had an AEM cold air intake installed. Wow, what a difference. It took me 9 years to upgrade the Si and not even the first car payment for the GSR.
 I still look sadly at my Civic Si and miss driving and taking care of it.
 No changes on the alarm system. It already has the immobilizer with a blinking red LED so it is pretty safe as long as I don't leave the keys hanging out of the trunk, again.
 This is absolutely the most fun car I've ever owned and can't wait to get off work here and take off down a twisty road.

si2002owner

It's been a while, since I write here, but just wanted to let you know, that just under the year of me having my car, it got in a small/medium wreck, on the front passenger side, with damage to the bumper, headlight, hood, fender, passenger door, and wheel (both rim and alignment). Of course I took my SI to the dealer, same dealer I bought from, same dealer I trusted for maintenance and oil changes, expecting that my car was going to be fixed in such a way that you could'n tell that it had damages once. After 33 days of waiting and waiting, they finally had it "ready". To my surprise and horror, the "service" guy that took "care" of my car, wanted to give me my car with the steering wheel off center (by a good 60 degrees or 1/6 turn!) overspray on the black panel on the bottom of the bumper (the black ends where you can install the foglights were SILVER!!!) the passenger door with a good ding, drops of clear coat hanging like if they were water drops off the hood, rusted bolt on the wheel, and a very dirty and rough condition overall, so i couldn't notice how bad or good the rest of the car was. Of course i told him i wouldn't take the car like this and i pointed to him all the "flaws", ha made me wait for a couple of hours, and it was much better, but not really good. I agreed to take it back again to take care of the other problems. Once at home i washed it and waxed it, and then realized that the car was oversprayd all over. When i took the car back to the dealer told him that, and he didn't wanted to do any polishing or similar, affraid of doing damages to my pain, and suggested that I should take it to a detailing place!!!. Well, so by the time i went to pick it up, the door ding was "fixed" the centering of the wheel was finally (after 3 attempts) correct, the clear coat drops hanging were not there anymore, but the edges of the hood were rough, they just banged out those drops, the door's paint was VERY dull and the surface of it with "waves", the engine bay all spilled with polisher i guess, and still overspray all over the car. The reason i had to get my car back soon is that i had a long road trip planed (4000 miles round trip to california scheduled for next day) so i just took the car, and now that i'm back i'm taking the car back to the dealer, already talked to the general manager and hopefully i'll get them to change the door, and hood, and take care of the oversprayed paint. I'm taking the pictures of my car, when it was in the shop, when it was given to me the first and second time, and how bad quality work they have done on my car.
So long for my trust and expectations at having my car fixed at dealerships, over 2 times more expensive than ANYWHERE else, twice as long time to wait, and unacceptable quality of work and service.
I hope in a couple of weeks when i get my car back, i will be able to write here that my car is back in it's mint condition.

dudka

It is funny that you are having similar problems with Honda body shop. I just picked up my Si from Honda dealer that had it for a week after it was sideswiped in a parking lot at work. The damage was on the passenger side, which is flawless as far as i can say. But when the tech delivered the car, it was covered with body shop dust (assume that is bondo dust) I noticed a huge scratch ranning the length of the driver's side fender (I had them do 7500 miels service as well) Pointed it out to the tech, he called the service advisor, they took it to the body shop to buff it out. I as already upset, because they are professionals and they allegedly "did not" see/make the scratch. But they were willing to buff it out. I take delivery of the car, first thing I notice my steering wheel remote for the radio is GONE. Go back, speak with service advisor again, turns out they "erroneously" ripped it off the steering wheel and put it my glove box. Again, THEY ARE PROFESSIONALS supposedly.

Drive home, notice that the "i-VTEC/DOHC" sticker is missing on the side they did work on. Call the dealership again. They schedule an appointment for me to come in to have them put the decal on and they will pay to fix the remote.
So much for PROFFESIONALIZM.

I have had better luck with regular body shops. This time, I thought the car is only 8 months old and who knows it better than Honda dealer, WRONG!!!!

I understand that they sub-contract regular body shops to do their work, but come on. At least when the car comes back INSPECT IT before delivery.

si2002owner

You are absolutely right, they should have better inspections before even calling you, if it's not ready, it's not ready, but if they say it is, you expect just that. By the way, on my car they also "forgot" to connect the power wire from the batery for my subwoofer, but the "experts" not only disconected the wire, but just plain chopped it, so they had to replace the part from the battery to the fuse...

si2002owner

Ok, i've owned the car for 13 months, with 16k on it, and after traveling both east (miami beach, FL) and west coasts (San Diego, CA) here is my report as complete as i can:
consumed 630 gallons of premium gas, at an average of 26.06 miles per gallon. Best milleage so far, from Las Vegas, NV to Sun City, AZ at 33.48 mpg, worst: 16.7 mpg 100% in city (Houston, TX), rough driving
3 Oil changes, at 5k, 10.5k and 15k, done at dealer, having to add only 1 qt in a whole year.
Warranty issues: rubber seal on both passenger and driver window (the corner in front of the frame) will be replaced by dealer, after they teared.
Aftermarket subwoofer replaced once.
So far no stickers falling, or peeling, inside or out.
However twice (in the last 2 months) the car didn't wanted to start at first attempt, but after holding the key longer it did (and by longer i mean much longer than usual)
Windshield replaced after 4 months of owning the car, it was cracked (posting #1820).
As for the water inside the trunk (posting #1862) never saw any more water (???)
Front end fixed by dealer (see posting #2326)

hatch5

Did Honda USA import another 15k SIs this year ? If they did, they will dump all left over SIs at crazy price, probably from Nov, right ?
I had an opportunity to buy one for 14.5k last year, but I did not take it. If they do this fire sale again, I will buy this time.

I just do not understand why Honda does not want to put larger wheels. I am sure their sales will be much improved once they do it.

chibianh

What octane gasoline are you guys putting in your Si's? I live a mile above sea level.. The owner's manual says 86 octane or higher? We have 85,87, and 91 octane here. Would the 85 suffice cuz of the elevation? Or should I just go with 87 to get better performance?

-Anh
-2003 Civic Si

erickpl

Living in CA, I use Mid or Premium (87 or 91). I started with regular, but when I tried mid, I got better mileage and it negated the cost savings of the cheaper gas.

-Paul

('99 Si - sold today)

rivertown

I used premium in my '99; the manual called for 91. I use regular (86, here) in my '02; same as yours, the manual calls for 86.

I don't see how the lower o2 there would make the 85 okay; so I'd go with 87.

anonymousposts

Sometimes I REALLY miss my SI.

revka

Your insights and thoughts about the Civic Si are always welcome here. Happy motoring!

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

leoncivic2

I have a 2002 Honda civic an when i when to replace the air filter. The bolts turn and the nuts in lower housing broke lose from the housing has anyone had this problem and i hope honda will make it good.

mdriver

Yep, had exactly that problem. An utterly stupid design. I had the entire lower and upper housing replaced. All I did was go to replace my air filter by unscrewing the factory over tightened bolts. Although it was done under warranty, I would have screamed at Honda if they thought of charging me. Amazing how Honda can build terrific complex engines, but when it come to bolting two piesces of plastic together, they haven't got a clue.

rivertown

get you one. Unless they are selling better this year, hot deal season is just ahead.

anonymousposts

there will be no more 2 door coupes or 2 door hatchbacks in my future. Gee and I are having a little gee and we are now looking at more "practical" vehicles like the Element and Forester.

I just read in C&D that the SI is getting a face lift for 04 though. They had a picture of the new Civic coupe front but not the SI. But if it's anything like the new coupe front end it will be sweet.

Gee and I commented yesterday that we had both seen a couple of SI's with scratches on their front bumpers. Could it be the rolling car ghost that got the best of my SI twice?

rivertown

(My little one [grown now] grew up with coupes and HB's, but that's not for everyone.)

anonymousposts

Just tonight we saw someone struggling to get a car seat out of a 99-00 SI. Didn't look like too much fun. As much as I love my 2003 Accord it really doesn't serve a purpose now and we have been wanting a Element-ish vehicle for a few months now. We just didn't know what to get rid of for it because I wasn't going to part with my Accord, now I have a reason to.

steveketch

I had an electron blue pearl '99 Si that I absolutely loved, which some ******* stole. Apparently it is an epidemic for these cars. Anyway, I am looking to replace it now and I'm looking for opinions on the RSX Type S and the 20th Anniversary GTI.

gee35coupe

I had an Electron Blue Si too. AEM intake, buzz bomb muffler, ground control springs. She was gorgeous. I still wish I hadn't gotten rid of that car.

rivertown

Welcome to the club. My blue '99 disappeared in December, to turn up pro stripped (totaled) perched on 4 doughnut spares on a back road.

You gotta love their retained value. I hope you were insured.

I went with an '02 Si.

revka

You should also post (copy/paste) your message in our Best Hot Hatch discussion, which also covers the RSX and GTI. We don't want to go off topic too much in this discussion. Okay?

Also, free free to start up a new discussion (i.e., "Civic Si vs. RSX vs. GTI") on the Hatchbacks board if you'd like. Look for the Add Discussion button at the top the main Hatchbacks Message board. Good luck.

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

muffin_man

That was my last tank, and the best I've gotten so far. I've got about 16,300 miles.

chibianh

Well, here are honda's official pictures.. these are the European Civic hatchbacks, but I'm pretty sure the Si will be similar. Damn.. and i just bought an 03 Si. Oh well, I still love it to death.

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=136353

mrowens42

How does $15,500 sound for a 2003 SI with 7200 miles? Car appears straight. Please help.

anonymousposts

$15500 is reasonable. Is this a dealer or private owner? Always check carfax for any accident history.

dudka

I have a 2002 Si with 7000 miles, would anyone buy it for $15,000? lol

I paid less to buy it brand new.

erickpl

I sold my 99 Flamenco Black Si yesterday. Needed to since my daughter has a Jeep Wrangler I need to pay for (3 drivers - 4 cars).

-Paul

rivertown

Sell the durned Jeep!

civickidd

wow, you're a good father...my father can care less about my interests and forced me to buy an auto sedan which I told him i hated. Being a college student in nj, its hard saving up for a new car when insurance itself is $2600/year, even though i have no points..