Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

pensfan83 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

My local Ford store still has a 15' Mustang on the lot. They had another one but finally sold it after almost 3 model years. They were listed as demos.

I've read that car companies encourage dealers to put many cars on the books as demos to boost reported sales numbers. I've seen the same thing at Dodge dealers where they are selling "used" trucks with 100 miles on them.

Don't know what devaluing a car/truck before selling it does for either party.

I didn't think demos/service loaners were considered used since they were never legally titled. Unless I misunderstood I'm almost certain the X1 demo I test drove awhile back qualified for new car lease terms, albeit with an adjusted residual/price to compensate for the mileage.

Demos and service loaners have not been titled, and are not "used" cars. They are, as noted, eligible for new car finance and lease rates.

Other manufacturers do encourage dealers to "buy" inventory, then sell as used, to inflate sales figures. In addition, there may be additional incentives made to the dealers to do this. "Final Inventory Payout" is a phrase I've seen used in the documents I have access to.

Michaell said:

pensfan83 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

My local Ford store still has a 15' Mustang on the lot. They had another one but finally sold it after almost 3 model years. They were listed as demos.

I've read that car companies encourage dealers to put many cars on the books as demos to boost reported sales numbers. I've seen the same thing at Dodge dealers where they are selling "used" trucks with 100 miles on them.

Don't know what devaluing a car/truck before selling it does for either party.

I didn't think demos/service loaners were considered used since they were never legally titled. Unless I misunderstood I'm almost certain the X1 demo I test drove awhile back qualified for new car lease terms, albeit with an adjusted residual/price to compensate for the mileage.

Demos and service loaners have not been titled, and are not "used" cars. They are, as noted, eligible for new car finance and lease rates.

Other manufacturers do encourage dealers to "buy" inventory, then sell as used, to inflate sales figures. In addition, there may be additional incentives made to the dealers to do this. "Final Inventory Payout" is a phrase I've seen used in the documents I have access to.

All I can say is that back in 2016 I was looking at the used inventory list of the dealer that snookered my BIL and saw quite a few 2016 Dodge pick ups listed as used with less than 1000 miles. They didn't call them demos or loaners.

But then again based on the sales tactics they used i wouldn't put anything past them.

sda

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Can't make up my mind, beauty or butchery? I can't imagine how much of the original car was left on the shop floor but I like the paint.



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/pro-street-camaro-street/6224008673.html

I would take an almost stock model over that overdone tacky looking model. A few updates are a nice addition:


It reminds me of this guy at tennis. If someone buys a new car, he always says, "Why did you buy such an ugly looking car?".

That's what I keep asking myself.

'15 Genny with Empire State Gray:

http://images.gtcarlot.com/pictures/95102797.jpg

'09 Genny with Cabernet Red Pearl:



Next time I'm going to get it right. :@

jmonroe

I like your Gray one.....looks more stately, and since the Genny is trying to copy a more stately car...it should look more stately!

I've always been partial to that color of 'garnet' red. It has been a while, here is a very similar red theme. My '84 Plymouth Horizon SE 2.2, a surprisingly good car, and dad's '95 Cutlass Cierra SL that he ended up giving to me after he could no longer drive because of eye issues.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

Canadian trees in Canadian dollars

Yeh, $10000 worth of trees Canadian is like $6000 USDs, so oldfarmer's trees are overpriced...he is gouging.

I hate to tell you this but years ago I hired one of those machines to move some trees from one end of the farm to the other and I paid $100 a tree.

To be fair, I owned the trees, they put the dug plug from one tree back in the last tree hole and I didn't have to replace any irrigation equipment.

As Isell says, if you were happy with the deal, that's all that matters. You can't put a price on not having to look at some guy with a hairy back run around in a Speedo.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

What do you guys think of this:

https://ssl.toyota.com/mirai/fcv.html?srchid=sem|GOOGLE|Mirai|Model_Mirai|Mirai_General_E|Mirai_Refresh_Rd3|Mirai_MLP&gclid=CNmuv9DWk9UCFRbZDQodf3AKPw&gclsrc=ds

I saw this in the Sunday paper. From the paper, it looks like you can only lease this car for now and that "Hydrogen will be expensive".

Only available in Cali for now.

jmonroe

Hummm, $50 a fill up, 9 sec. 0-60 and $57,000.....I'll pass for now. I like the concept though. Certainly would eliminate range anxiety on electrics. A Tesla with a 300-400 mile range and a 3 minute refueling time would be sweet.

abacomike

driver100 said:

driver100 said:

Ab gets away with it because Caddies all look the same too, but he got an ATS which looks like the higher price CTS. Smart, I can't even get back at him....but, one day I will - when he least expects it.

I hope I never get on your wrong side. LOL

I always get my revenge. ALWAYS! Remember my neighbor who cut down 6, 40 foot Spruce trees so he could put in his pool? Those trees were a buffer, between our kitchen window and his pool....and I don't particularly want to watch him swimming. I put in 5 trees to get the barrier back.....and it cost me about $10000. Then we tinted our windows so he couldn't see in.....$2000. I didn't talk to him for at least 3 years...not one word to him or his wife. Well, he had a a big computer job. He didn't complete a major project on time and he got canned. He sold his house and moved to Vancouver Island. The new neighbors are really nice. Most companies that fired me or didn't treat me well have either gone out of business or aren't doing too well. I always win! I am the easiest going, mildest person in the world, until someone crosses me. Don't lose sleep though ab, I still like you, and I know you were only having fun....and that is OK!

For all those years you didn't talk to your "beloved" neighbor, you sure knew a lot about him, his family and his financial difficulties - even where he moved!  You must enjoy your psychic abilities. 

What psychic abilities? My really nice neighbors across the road and other one at the end of the street know people who know him....they keep me up to date - they know I don't talk to him. Don't forget, we helped them out when they moved in, we took in their mail and checked on their house when they were away, and they told us the trees would be coming down at 7 a.m. the following day. My wife was in tears. I am not glad he lost his job or anything.......I would rather have the nice people we have who live next door.

So you weren't psychic after all, driver.  You had a web of spies around your neighborhood secretly reporting on all the dope on your "beloved" neighborhood.  Covert Black Ops in a small Canadian neighborhood- I'm impressed with your ingenuity, driver.  I'm jealous! 

driver100

suydam said:

WOW that's cold. I'd certainly notify my neighbors in advance. That's just courtesy. I wouldn't cut down a tree either unless there was no other choice. The trees might be on your property but the view affects everyone. And property values. Also, the neighbors might know something about the trees and their history that could affect a decision I guess Midwest nice has seeped into my bones.

I agree...they cut down the trees to put in their pool. They could have configured the pool so the trees could have stayed. The neighbors on the other side didn't like him because he put the noisy filter right next to their outdoor patio area......they couldn't sit outside and enjoy the patio. The filter could have been placed somewhere else.

It is his property, but, you can be considerate or be a jerk about it. Some things you just may not have a choice, but they had a choice. He can do what he wants on his property - though some municipalities would not have let him cut down those trees....I tried but in this area anything goes. He can cut them down, but that says to me, "this is a person I don't really care to talk to....not my kind of person.

jmonroe

sda said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Can't make up my mind, beauty or butchery? I can't imagine how much of the original car was left on the shop floor but I like the paint.



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/pro-street-camaro-street/6224008673.html

I would take an almost stock model over that overdone tacky looking model. A few updates are a nice addition:


It reminds me of this guy at tennis. If someone buys a new car, he always says, "Why did you buy such an ugly looking car?".

That's what I keep asking myself.

'15 Genny with Empire State Gray:

http://images.gtcarlot.com/pictures/95102797.jpg

'09 Genny with Cabernet Red Pearl:



Next time I'm going to get it right. :@

jmonroe

I like your Gray one.....looks more stately, and since the Genny is trying to copy a more stately car...it should look more stately!

I've always been partial to that color of 'garnet' red. It has been a while, here is a very similar red theme. My '84 Plymouth Horizon SE 2.2, a surprisingly good car, and dad's '95 Cutlass Cierra SL that he ended up giving to me after he could no longer drive because of eye issues.

OK, since we are back to colors again.

This was my '75 Pontiac Grand Prix. I bought it in 1977 via a private sale for $3800 IIRC with just under 23K miles. Nice burgundy with painted on from the factory pin stripes with a white landau top and nice wheels too. It had a V8 400 CID engine and 400 transmission. It ran a LOT better after I replaced the catalytic converter with a catalytic converter eliminator pipe test pipe that I purchased from J C Whitney for about $15 (nobody else had them back then).

I had this car well into the 80's. In fact, Son #1 learned to drive on this car. He also took out the front clip and passenger door due to spinning out on a metal bridge exiting a high school parking lot after a football game one night. His first time at doing panel replacements. His grocery store wages paid for all the parts and the farming out of the paint work.

He was a better driver after that and a better user of tools too.





jmonroe

driver100

imidazol97 said:

jmonroe said:

tjc78 said:

To make a long story short, I refused to pay for something I now liked so he had to foot the bill alone, which as I understand it was around $1300 including stump grinding. Hell, if I knew he'd pay that much I would have done it for $1100 and planted new smaller Blue Spruce trees 5 feet into my property.

Now he doesn't like me so much but I can live with that. He's a snowbird and is gone for 4 months. Too bad it ain't the Summer months. jmonroe

If the trees were planted by both property owners and if they truly were on the surveyed border, half on one and half on the other property as they grew, he owes you the value of your half of the large trees for cutting them down. Large trees are expensive to replant, as Driver's experience serves to stipulate. So the neighbor deprived you of the service of 1/2 a tree in each case. I assume a court would expect that he stand the total cost of the damaging process of cutting them down.

I love it. Sue him for half the value of the trees. They are worth over $1000 each to replace, I'd like to see his face when he gets the notice of his court date!

I am with your JM, why did this moron plant trees that would end up in the shade....and why not move them around. He would be another person I wouldn't need to talk to.

driver100

roadburner said:

jmonroe said:

tjc78 said:

In all honesty, it was your neighbor's choice to take down the trees.  They were on their property, correct?

I cut a tree down in my yard and certainly didn't ask my neighbors.   If they said anything I'd explain when they pay my mortgage and taxes they can have a say. 

I have a tree story too, really 4 trees.

Before I bought the house we are in, as I'm in the back yard with Mrs. j and the realtor, the guy next door comes over and wants to know if I'm buying the house. I told we were just looking it over. About 6 weeks later we bought the house and Mrs. j and I are in the back yard again. Our new neighbor comes over and says the 4 large beautiful Blue Spruce trees, at least 25 feet tall, were planted by him and the first owner of my house and they were supposedly exactly on the property line. As best as I could tell, from the survey I got with the house, he was right. That didn't bother me at all because they were a good divider between our side yards. The guy goes on to tell me, if I didn't mind he would cut the grass around them on my side of the trees because he didn't want to lose the trees since he had gotten an attachment to them. I'm not a lover of cutting grass so I told him, "GREAT".

That only lasted for a couple years till he saw I knew how to cut grass and wouldn't harm the trees, so I now did what he wanted to do. Still no problem since that grass was really mine.

Fast forward to about 7 years ago and this tree lover realizes that these beloved trees are now shading sun light in the area where he planted some other shrubs and flowers. He wants to take them down but since they are pretty damn big he wants me to pay half of the cost. Now, Mrs. j and I have fallen in love with this beautiful divider we inherited when we bought the house. I tried to talk him out of it but his new plantings took precedence.

To make a long story short, I refused to pay for something I now liked so he had to foot the bill alone, which as I understand it was around $1300 including stump grinding. Hell, if I knew he'd pay that much I would have done it for $1100 and planted new smaller Blue Spruce trees 5 feet into my property.

Now he doesn't like me so much but I can live with that. He's a snowbird and is gone for 4 months. Too bad it ain't the Summer months.

jmonroe

Bears out my NNIB philosophy: No Neighbors Is Best.

I like neighbors...if they are normal decent people. We have lived out in the country and that isn't as ideal as it sounds either depending on what suits you.

tjc78

Would you want your neighbors telling you where to put your pool?  

As for the pump, how do you know it couldn't be placed elsewhere?  What if the wiring and piping dictated it needed to go where it was placed?

You have to understand that unless your neighbors are noisy or pigs there isn't much you can do.  

tjc78

@sda
My dad had a Horizon of similar vintage.   He always said it was a good car. His was a charcoal gray, 5 speed stick.  

His 86 Shelby Charger was a much nicer, but that was short lived.   He wrecked it on the New Jersey Turnpike.  It's replacement was an 87 Shadow ES turbo.  I always liked that car.  His was black over grey and loaded.  My uncle ran a Dodge dealer so that is pretty much what the family drove until the early 90s. 

driver100

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

Ab gets away with it because Caddies all look the same too, but he got an ATS which looks like the higher price CTS. Smart, I can't even get back at him....but, one day I will - when he least expects it.

I hope I never get on your wrong side. LOL

I always get my revenge. ALWAYS!
Remember my neighbor who cut down 6, 40 foot Spruce trees so he could put in his pool? Those trees were a buffer, between our kitchen window and his pool....and I don't particularly want to watch him swimming. I put in 5 trees to get the barrier back.....and it cost me about $10000. Then we tinted our windows so he couldn't see in.....$2000. I didn't talk to him for at least 3 years...not one word to him or his wife.

Well, he had a a big computer job. He didn't complete a major project on time and he got canned. He sold his house and moved to Vancouver Island. The new neighbors are really nice.

Most companies that fired me or didn't treat me well have either gone out of business or aren't doing too well.

I always win! I am the easiest going, mildest person in the world, until someone crosses me.

Don't lose sleep though ab, I still like you, and I know you were only having fun....and that is OK!

For all those years you didn't talk to your "beloved" neighbor, you sure knew a lot about him, his family and his financial difficulties - even where he moved!  You must enjoy your psychic abilities. 

What psychic abilities? My really nice neighbors across the road and other one at the end of the street know people who know him....they keep me up to date - they know I don't talk to him.

Don't forget, we helped them out when they moved in, we took in their mail and checked on their house when they were away, and they told us the trees would be coming down at 7 a.m. the following day. My wife was in tears. I am not glad he lost his job or anything.......I would rather have the nice people we have who live next door.

So you weren't psychic after all, driver.  You had a web of spies around your neighborhood secretly reporting on all the dope on your "beloved" neighborhood.  Covert Black Ops in a small Canadian neighborhood- I'm impressed with your ingenuity, driver.  I'm jealous! 

I got the Russians to do some snooping!

My neighbors knew how I felt about the neighbor, and since they didn't particularly like him - he wasn't the friendliest guy - they would tell me what they found out. He did have an older Corvette he took out about one Sunday a month. They had visitors about once or twice a year, and they only stay for about an hour. No friends, didn't go out much. He bought the noisiest power mower I have ever heard....I think he went to the store and asked for the noisiest mower they had....so he could antagonize me. He always seemed to start cutting his grass when we were just starting dinner....I think he did it on purpose. So glad he is gone. The new neighbors seem like really nice people.

driver100

sda said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Can't make up my mind, beauty or butchery? I can't imagine how much of the original car was left on the shop floor but I like the paint.



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/pro-street-camaro-street/6224008673.html

I would take an almost stock model over that overdone tacky looking model. A few updates are a nice addition:


It reminds me of this guy at tennis. If someone buys a new car, he always says, "Why did you buy such an ugly looking car?".

That's what I keep asking myself.

'15 Genny with Empire State Gray:

http://images.gtcarlot.com/pictures/95102797.jpg

'09 Genny with Cabernet Red Pearl:



Next time I'm going to get it right. :@

jmonroe

I like your Gray one.....looks more stately, and since the Genny is trying to copy a more stately car...it should look more stately!

I've always been partial to that color of 'garnet' red. It has been a while, here is a very similar red theme. My '84 Plymouth Horizon SE 2.2, a surprisingly good car, and dad's '95 Cutlass Cierra SL that he ended up giving to me after he could no longer drive because of eye issues.

Is that a 95 or an 85 Cierra? I had an 86 that was in JMonroe Wall Street gray...same color as his wannabe Genny. I liked the dark gray on the Cierra, but the red looks good too. A car has to be not too big and look a bit sporty to carry off being red. The Cierra looks good in red, I think that is the first red one I have ever seen though.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

Canadian trees in Canadian dollars

Yeh, $10000 worth of trees Canadian is like $6000 USDs, so oldfarmer's trees are overpriced...he is gouging.

I hate to tell you this but years ago I hired one of those machines to move some trees from one end of the farm to the other and I paid $100 a tree.

To be fair, I owned the trees, they put the dug plug from one tree back in the last tree hole and I didn't have to replace any irrigation equipment.

As Isell says, if you were happy with the deal, that's all that matters. You can't put a price on not having to look at some guy with a hairy back run around in a Speedo.

The new trees took awhile to grow in. Yeh, I didn't want to watch him sit in a chair, have a bottle of beer, smoke a big cigar, and strut (and that is what he did, strut around like a peacock) around in his bathing suit. The trees made it so I didn't have to see that anymore, so in that sense, they were worth it!

driver100

Nice looking car JM. I wonder what thet would be worth in nice shape....today!

jmonroe

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

jmonroe said:

tjc78 said:

To make a long story short, I refused to pay for something I now liked so he had to foot the bill alone, which as I understand it was around $1300 including stump grinding. Hell, if I knew he'd pay that much I would have done it for $1100 and planted new smaller Blue Spruce trees 5 feet into my property.

Now he doesn't like me so much but I can live with that. He's a snowbird and is gone for 4 months. Too bad it ain't the Summer months. jmonroe

If the trees were planted by both property owners and if they truly were on the surveyed border, half on one and half on the other property as they grew, he owes you the value of your half of the large trees for cutting them down. Large trees are expensive to replant, as Driver's experience serves to stipulate. So the neighbor deprived you of the service of 1/2 a tree in each case. I assume a court would expect that he stand the total cost of the damaging process of cutting them down.

I love it. Sue him for half the value of the trees. They are worth over $1000 each to replace, I'd like to see his face when he gets the notice of his court date!

I am with your JM, why did this moron plant trees that would end up in the shade....and why not move them around. He would be another person I wouldn't need to talk to.

If I had to guess, I'd say he didn't account for how large certain trees grow, like a lot of homeowners don't.

This guy also had the same large Blue Spruce trees on each side of his driveway very close to the street. If you know anything about these trees, you know they really flare out at the bottom. I remember saying to Mrs. j, several times, "I don't know how he can see when pulling out of his driveway". Well, he really couldn't and got away with it for years. Then when his wife was almost T-boned he decided to cut down those trees.

IIRC he did this about 5 years after I moved in and years before the trees in the backyard.

jmonroe

fintail

My dad had a Horizon when I was a kid, it was medium blue on blue. He liked it, and had good luck with it. He drove it hard (I remember seeing some relatively high speeds in it back in the dark 55 days) , and it didn't complain, he also said it was the best snow car he ever had.

sda said:

I've always been partial to that color of 'garnet' red. It has been a while, here is a very similar red theme. My '84 Plymouth Horizon SE 2.2, a surprisingly good car, and dad's '95 Cutlass Cierra SL that he ended up giving to me after he could no longer drive because of eye issues.

fintail

We all have brands we have "learned" more than others, mine is MB. I can go look at cars on a lot and teach the salespeople about options and colors

Never been fond of the BMW E60 though. I dislike the interior design especially, and the Dame Edna headlights, no. Bangle years were not the heyday of BMW, notice they moved away from those themes pretty fast.

driver100 said:

Your knowlege about MBs is incredible fin. Did you get an PHD in Mercedes Studies. I love the facts you come up with. How they got that line and that it was controversial.

I hated the bustle back BMWs around 2008. Now I love that design.

driver100

tjc78 said:

Would you want your neighbors telling you where to put your pool?  

As for the pump, how do you know it couldn't be placed elsewhere?  What if the wiring and piping dictated it needed to go where it was placed?

You have to understand that unless your neighbors are noisy or pigs there isn't much you can do.  

I doubt very much I would put in a pool that would affect my neighbors. The people on the other side have a pool, but there are trees between us and it doesn't affect us. I am glad they have their grandchildren over and have a nice time.

The moron could have planned it so the trees could have stayed. There are a few things I believe in in Life;
*try to make the world a better place
*Be as honest and truthful as possible, it is the civilized way to be
*try to be as positive as possible
It is much better to try and stay on good terms with the neighbors, it makes it better for all of us.
If one person exerts his rights....because he can.......it has a ripple affect....and causes all kinds of problems and unhappiness.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

Nice looking car JM. I wonder what thet would be worth in nice shape....today!

This is the only one I found doing a quick search.

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/807600/1975-pontiac-grand-prix-for-sale-in-winamac-indiana-46996

This looks like a premium price to me.

Maybe @oldfarmer50 can find one that is a hooptie for less.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

fintail said:

My dad had a Horizon when I was a kid, it was medium blue on blue. He liked it, and had good luck with it. He drove it hard (I remember seeing some relatively high speeds in it back in the dark 55 days) , and it didn't complain, he also said it was the best snow car he ever had.

sda said:

I've always been partial to that color of 'garnet' red. It has been a while, here is a very similar red theme. My '84 Plymouth Horizon SE 2.2, a surprisingly good car, and dad's '95 Cutlass Cierra SL that he ended up giving to me after he could no longer drive because of eye issues.

I agree on the snowmobiling qualities of the Horizon. I had the twin Dodge Omni and I never had to shovel the driveway unless the snow was over 2 feet.

I also liked those Cierra/Century twins. Same car from 86 to 96. Basic transportation and ran forever if you didn't drive in winter salt. They rusted like nobody's business. You still see some for sale on southern state CL.

stickguy

my wife's 84 Horizon was the best snow car I ever had too. Unstoppable.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Nice looking car JM. I wonder what thet would be worth in nice shape....today!

This is the only one I found doing a quick search.

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/807600/1975-pontiac-grand-prix-for-sale-in-winamac-indiana-46996

This looks like a premium price to me.

Maybe @oldfarmer50 can find one that is a hooptie for less.

jmonroe

Maybe Mike could swing over and get it for you.



https://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/cto/d/pontiac-grand-prix-sj/6220401813.html

sda

driver100 said:

sda said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Can't make up my mind, beauty or butchery? I can't imagine how much of the original car was left on the shop floor but I like the paint.



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/pro-street-camaro-street/6224008673.html

I would take an almost stock model over that overdone tacky looking model. A few updates are a nice addition:


It reminds me of this guy at tennis. If someone buys a new car, he always says, "Why did you buy such an ugly looking car?".

That's what I keep asking myself.

'15 Genny with Empire State Gray:

http://images.gtcarlot.com/pictures/95102797.jpg

'09 Genny with Cabernet Red Pearl:



Next time I'm going to get it right. :@

jmonroe

I like your Gray one.....looks more stately, and since the Genny is trying to copy a more stately car...it should look more stately!

I've always been partial to that color of 'garnet' red. It has been a while, here is a very similar red theme. My '84 Plymouth Horizon SE 2.2, a surprisingly good car, and dad's '95 Cutlass Cierra SL that he ended up giving to me after he could no longer drive because of eye issues.

Is that a 95 or an 85 Cierra? I had an 86 that was in JMonroe Wall Street gray...same color as his wannabe Genny. I liked the dark gray on the Cierra, but the red looks good too. A car has to be not too big and look a bit sporty to carry off being red. The Cierra looks good in red, I think that is the first red one I have ever seen though.

The Cierra was a '95 bought in Sept '94. It was the third and last new car that dad bought. He generally bought cars 2-3 years old. Compared to has previous Cadillacs and Grand Marquis, the Cierra was a practical purchase yet had the factory key fob remote locking/entry. It was also the most trouble free car they had owned to date. Yet if you ask dad, regardless of all the trouble he had with it, his favorite car is the '79 Eldorado diesel. He was smitten with the looks and comfort of that car. The Horizon was a 5 speed with a/c and was decently quick in 55 mph America. Funny story. Dad was not a Chrysler fan. When I bought the Horizon and brought it to him to see, he stood in the driveway and motioned me to park in the street. No Chrysler in his driveway. A couple of weeks later he meekly asked if he could borrow the Horizon as he had an important meeting to go to, his Eldorado wouldn't start and mom had gone out of town and had driven her car.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Nice looking car JM. I wonder what thet would be worth in nice shape....today!

This is the only one I found doing a quick search.

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/807600/1975-pontiac-grand-prix-for-sale-in-winamac-indiana-46996

This looks like a premium price to me.

Maybe @oldfarmer50 can find one that is a hooptie for less.

jmonroe

Maybe Mike could swing over and get it for you.



https://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/cto/d/pontiac-grand-prix-sj/6220401813.html

Thanks but I don't have room for one nor do I like that very red color on that car. I was just showing @driver100 what one might cost.

$6,900 is a lot less than the $20,000 asking price of the one I found. I will say this, it is hard to believe that it only has 30,358. Back in those days engines didn't last like they do today. Not even the V8, 455 CID engine that it now has. I had the 455 engine in the '68 Olds Delta 88 Custom that I bought new in '68. I didn't know that 455 engine was an offering on that car but maybe it was. Then maybe it wasn't the original engine. This I believe more.

Where is @isellhondas? He goes back to those days.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Nice looking car JM. I wonder what thet would be worth in nice shape....today!

This is the only one I found doing a quick search.

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/807600/1975-pontiac-grand-prix-for-sale-in-winamac-indiana-46996

This looks like a premium price to me.

Maybe @oldfarmer50 can find one that is a hooptie for less.

jmonroe

Maybe Mike could swing over and get it for you.



https://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/cto/d/pontiac-grand-prix-sj/6220401813.html

Thanks but I don't have room for one nor do I like that very red color on that car. I was just showing @driver100 what one might cost.

$6,900 is a lot less than the $20,000 asking price of the one I found. I will say this, it is hard to believe that it only has 30,358. Back in those days engines didn't last like they do today. Not even the V8, 455 CID engine that it now has. I had the 455 engine in the '68 Olds Delta 88 Custom that I bought new in '68. I didn't know that 455 engine was an offering on that car but maybe it was. Then maybe it wasn't the original engine. This I believe more.

Where is @isellhondas? He goes back to those days.

jmonroe

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Nice looking car JM. I wonder what thet would be worth in nice shape....today!

This is the only one I found doing a quick search.

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/807600/1975-pontiac-grand-prix-for-sale-in-winamac-indiana-46996

This looks like a premium price to me.

Maybe @oldfarmer50 can find one that is a hooptie for less.

jmonroe

Maybe Mike could swing over and get it for you.



https://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/cto/d/pontiac-grand-prix-sj/6220401813.html

Thanks but I don't have room for one nor do I like that very red color on that car. I was just showing @driver100 what one might cost.

$6,900 is a lot less than the $20,000 asking price of the one I found. I will say this, it is hard to believe that it only has 30,358. Back in those days engines didn't last like they do today. Not even the V8, 455 CID engine that it now has. I had the 455 engine in the '68 Olds Delta 88 Custom that I bought new in '68. I didn't know that 455 engine was an offering on that car but maybe it was. Then maybe it wasn't the original engine. This I believe more.

Where is @isellhondas? He goes back to those days.

jmonroe

jmonroe said:

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Nice looking car JM. I wonder what thet would be worth in nice shape....today!

This is the only one I found doing a quick search.

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/807600/1975-pontiac-grand-prix-for-sale-in-winamac-indiana-46996

This looks like a premium price to me.

Maybe @oldfarmer50 can find one that is a hooptie for less.

jmonroe

Maybe Mike could swing over and get it for you.



https://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/cto/d/pontiac-grand-prix-sj/6220401813.html

Thanks but I don't have room for one nor do I like that very red color on that car. I was just showing @driver100 what one might cost.

$6,900 is a lot less than the $20,000 asking price of the one I found. I will say this, it is hard to believe that it only has 30,358. Back in those days engines didn't last like they do today. Not even the V8, 455 CID engine that it now has. I had the 455 engine in the '68 Olds Delta 88 Custom that I bought new in '68. I didn't know that 455 engine was an offering on that car but maybe it was. Then maybe it wasn't the original engine. This I believe more.

Where is @isellhondas? He goes back to those days.

jmonroe

Would the engine even matter? What did a 455 put out back then, a measly 175hp.?

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, the car has a "W" as the 5th digit in the VIN, so it's a stock 455. But before you get excited, that's 200 HP and a 7.6:1 compression ratio.

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yep, the car has a "W" as the 5th digit in the VIN, so it's a stock 455. But before you get excited, that's 200 HP and a 7.6:1 compression ratio.

Thanks for the explanation Shifty. Like I said I didn't know the 455 was an offering with the Grand Prix in that era, then again I didn't know the Grand Prix was offered with a 350 CID V8 and bench seats either in that era until this happened:

I worked with a guy that bought a '76 Grand Prix new in '76. It had a 400 CID V8 and of course bucket seats.

I bought my '75 Grand Prix used in '77. It also had a 400 CID V8 and of course bucket seats.

Then in '77 a friend of ours bought a '77 Grand Prix. His car had a 350 CID V8 and bench seats. When we told him it wasn't a real Grand Prix because of the 350 engine and bench seats he wouldn't talk to us for about 4 days.

Talk about buying a wannabe, that was a classic case of it.

jmonroe

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gszt9XZfxeI

tjc78

driver100 said:

tjc78 said:

Would you want your neighbors telling you where to put your pool?  

As for the pump, how do you know it couldn't be placed elsewhere?  What if the wiring and piping dictated it needed to go where it was placed?

You have to understand that unless your neighbors are noisy or pigs there isn't much you can do.  

I doubt very much I would put in a pool that would affect my neighbors. The people on the other side have a pool, but there are trees between us and it doesn't affect us. I am glad they have their grandchildren over and have a nice time.

The moron could have planned it so the trees could have stayed. There are a few things I believe in in Life;
*try to make the world a better place
*Be as honest and truthful as possible, it is the civilized way to be
*try to be as positive as possible
It is much better to try and stay on good terms with the neighbors, it makes it better for all of us.
If one person exerts his rights....because he can.......it has a ripple affect....and causes all kinds of problems and unhappiness.

I think you are missing the point. Your neighbor the same as you pays for his property/taxes etc. He wanted to make an improvement, and within the law put in a pool on his property in the place he wanted it.

In doing so he removed his trees on his property. Yeah, it sucks you lost your "free" natural fence he was providing you, but, again nothing you could of done.

A good buddy of mine is a total fanatic about his property. Golf course lawn, house pressure washed every few months. Deck stained every year, etc, etc. His home and property is a show piece.... guess what? His neighbor is a total and complete PIG! Lawn not kept up, house is crappy looking and not maintained. He used to stress over it and then thought.... this guy doesn't bother me at all. Isn't noisy, no kids. What can I really say?

I'm putting a large addition on my home, did I consult my neighbors for approval? Nope! Actually one of them doesn't even know its about to happen. I didn't change any set backs, contractor won't need access to their property, etc. It will change how my home looks especially to the neighbor on one side, but what should I do? Not do what works for us? There is only one place the addition could go and that is where it is going.

graphicguy

JM....I really like those big bodied coupe Grand Prix of the late '60s (and looks like into the '70s). I see them at car shows pretty regularly. The ones I've seen have either been fairly robust, or they've all been unusually well cared for.

Didn't know they were so anemic under the hood, though.

driver100

TJC Technically you are correct in every way. Unfortunately the builder did put the trees on his property and not on ours. He could have made his pool a little different, and kept the trees.

Putting an addition on your home is a little different. That is kind of a necessity or is very practical, and you can't try to configure it in a way that will make it disappear.

My neighbor built a pool which could have been made very similar, he could have saved 6 40 foot trees, but the big baby had to have his pool.....which he uses about 10 times a year, mostly to make his point that he didn't waste his $80000, and probably costs $5000 a year to maintain.

I am off for our yearly trip to Legendary Motors.

dino001

Did you guys hear that Mercedes has its own diesel-gate brewing? The allegations are getting more serious by a day. They already recalled 3 million (!) vehicles in Europe for "emissions fix". This time it seems it's centered in Europe, as the regulators started checking those "wonder diesels" much more closely that they used to.

This doesn't surprise me at all. I was quite certain that VW scandal was just a tip of the iceberg. The fact that the scam was going on for so long and nobody from the competition said anything, was a big tell. We all know, they take each others' products apart to see, so I'm sure other mfrs. caught VW's trick well before those environmentalists and EPA. They most likely didn't tell cause they probably all cheated (or still cheating) to various degrees. Perhaps not as egregiously as VW's did with 40 times the limit, but the emission standards were simply unrealistic vs. cost expectations. The European officials looked the other way, it was really a charade - they created stringent tests and regulations to keep people convinced it's all good, but didn't really want to know how the results were achieved. Too bad American regulators didn't get the memo - they actually thought that reducing inconvenient NOx reduction was serious business. Now Europeans can no longer pretend that diesel will "save the planet". Oh, those Americans... It was going so well for everybody... They had to make their standards matching those in Europe (in theory anyway) and dared to actually care to meet them not just in the lab. Would not surprise me if the whole diesel charade totally imploded at some point. The signs are already there.

I think the whole issue also vindicates Japanese makers, who went with hybrids as path to true low emissions. I don't own one yet, but it seems in a few years there may only be hybrids and electrics available. Although we will see that yet - I think there are still some serious technological and social barriers to all-electric vehicles. However, gas-electric hybrids seem to be entrenching bit by bit and to their credit, I think the hybrids are getting better, too. That Lexus CT200h was pretty dull (I was really disappointed how dull when I tested one), but I would not be surprised if those hybrid Volvos were better. The cost is still an issue, but it will go down over time, I think.

fintail

Those mid 70s GPs always make me think of Carrie Fisher's car in Blues Brothers:





Regarding diesels, I still wonder if there are ambient temperature issues, and lab vs real world issues, which were not properly set forth by regulators to begin with. Of course, hybrid and ev will be just as much of a charade - export that pollution to someone else's backyard, it's the greenie way, shrill German greenies included.

dino001

fintail said:

Of course, hybrid and ev will be just as much of a charade - export that pollution to someone else's backyard, it's the greenie way, shrill German greenies included.

That is certainly valid point. It's a different type of pollution and as long it is NIMB, who cares, right? We can still feel superior. All I can see is the cloud of smug in San Francisco and little town of Colorado.

fintail

I think the smug emissions in SF could block the sun, not to mention similar emissions in Portland and Seattle.

I'll just drive my fintail, which predates primitive smog pumps by several years, and the earliest catalytic converter by over a decade - it cancels out smug. Change the world with that hybrid/ev. Just don't look where the battery components and juice come from (or the virtual lack of regulation of commercial vehicles, both diesel and gasoline) - it goes in someone else's backyard.

dino001 said:

That is certainly valid point. It's a different type of pollution and as long it is NIMB, who cares, right? We can still feel superior. All I can see is the cloud of smug in San Francisco and little town of Colorado.

roadburner

The 1970 Grand Prix SJ was relatively quick for the time- I think it could run the quarter in the high 14 to low 15 second range. Pretty lackluster by today's standards.

bwia

Just couldn't resist sharing this taken from a church roadside sign:

"Honk if you love Jesus, text while driving, if you want to meet Him."

oldfarmer50

On the topic of 70s cars I can't imagine there are many of these left, particularly 2 doors. The styling is so bizarre that I can't decide if it would have any collector potential.

My father had a 71' 4 door which was pretty nice but didn't look like this.



https://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/cto/d/plymouth-fury/6209742518.html

abacomike

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Nice looking car JM. I wonder what thet would be worth in nice shape....today!

This is the only one I found doing a quick search.

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/807600/1975-pontiac-grand-prix-for-sale-in-winamac-indiana-46996

This looks like a premium price to me.

Maybe @oldfarmer50 can find one that is a hooptie for less.

jmonroe

Maybe Mike could swing over and get it for you.



https://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/cto/d/pontiac-grand-prix-sj/6220401813.html

Palm Beach Gardens is about 45+ miles north of me. I saw the odometer - wonder if that's the first, second or third time around? If it's the first time around, the price is definitely there. If not, I wouldn't touch it. That paint chip could be a problem - down here with the humidity, rust could be starting to settle in. One would have to eye-ball it closely. Also would need a CARFAX on the car. If someone is interested in restoring that Pontiac to its original condition, it would be a gem of a find.

bwia

@driver said. I liked the dark gray on the Cierra, but the red looks good too. A car has to be not too big and look a bit sporty to carry off being red. The Cierra looks good in red, I think that is the first red one I have ever seen though.

I had a similar Cutlass Ciera but I exchanged it plus $500 cash for stain and paint for a deck rehab. @ab348 probably the best time to paint/stain the deck is during the fall.

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Nice looking car JM. I wonder what thet would be worth in nice shape....today!

This is the only one I found doing a quick search.

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/807600/1975-pontiac-grand-prix-for-sale-in-winamac-indiana-46996

This looks like a premium price to me.

Maybe @oldfarmer50 can find one that is a hooptie for less.

jmonroe

Maybe Mike could swing over and get it for you.



https://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/cto/d/pontiac-grand-prix-sj/6220401813.html

Palm Beach Gardens is about 45+ miles north of me. I saw the odometer - wonder if that's the first, second or third time around? If it's the first time around, the price is definitely there. If not, I wouldn't touch it. That paint chip could be a problem - down here with the humidity, rust could be starting to settle in. One would have to eye-ball it closely. Also would need a CARFAX on the car. If someone is interested in restoring that Pontiac to its original condition, it would be a gem of a find.

My first question would be if you could modify that big block 455 back to it's pre-emissions choked glory. I see some of the Power Block rebuilds on motors like that and they get them into the 500hp+ range. Could it be done under current pollution standards or would something that old be exempt?

abacomike

Has anyone heard from FF? The last time he posted he was in ICU and said that they had a diagnosis and that the antibiotics were beginning to work. I just hope he is recovering.

houdini1

driver100 said:

tjc78 said:

Would you want your neighbors telling you where to put your pool?  

As for the pump, how do you know it couldn't be placed elsewhere?  What if the wiring and piping dictated it needed to go where it was placed?

You have to understand that unless your neighbors are noisy or pigs there isn't much you can do.  

I doubt very much I would put in a pool that would affect my neighbors. The people on the other side have a pool, but there are trees between us and it doesn't affect us. I am glad they have their grandchildren over and have a nice time.

The moron could have planned it so the trees could have stayed. There are a few things I believe in in Life;
*try to make the world a better place
*Be as honest and truthful as possible, it is the civilized way to be
*try to be as positive as possible
It is much better to try and stay on good terms with the neighbors, it makes it better for all of us.
If one person exerts his rights....because he can.......it has a ripple affect....and causes all kinds of problems and unhappiness.

Hey, you left out, "Always, always get revenge !!

abacomike

I just got a call from my gastroenterologist. The blood tests I had done last Thursday came back. No virus was detectible once again. This is the 13th week I've been on this Epclusa medication - but as I mentioned before, the same thing happened with Harvoni - but on the 16th week (4 weeks after I completed the medication) the virus was detectible.

They want me to wait until the 20th week (4 weeks prior to completing the 24 week treatment) to have the next blood test. These pills make be very tired and weak and lots of headaches. I just hope it is worth these side effects and that on the 28th and 32nd weeks, they still report no virus detectible. That sure would be nice.

28firefighter

I'm still here. I've been discharged from the ICU and am on a regular med floor. The hope is to finish the IV course of medications tomorrow and be out of here by Friday or Saturday.  It's going to be about 4-6 weeks of recovery time to get me mostly back to normal and about a year of medication before I'm 100%. 

I am reading/watching everything - just too run down to post too much. 

houdini1

28firefighter said:

I'm still here. I've been discharged from the ICU and am on a regular med floor. The hope is to finish the IV course of medications tomorrow and be out of here by Friday or Saturday.  It's going to be about 4-6 weeks of recovery time to get me mostly back to normal and about a year of medication before I'm 100%. 

I am reading/watching everything - just too run down to post too much. 

Thanks for the update FF. We have all been waiting for one. Sounds great.

imidazol97

I'd guess I've seen one in years of car cruise-ins. Lots of the other MoPars of that body.
And I'm sure the one I saw didn't have 20-inch rubber bands. Ruins a good car.

imidazol97

28firefighter said:

I'm still here. I've been discharged from the ICU and am on a regular med floor. The hope is to finish the IV course of medications tomorrow and be out of here by Friday or Saturday.  It's going to be about 4-6 weeks of recovery time to get me mostly back to normal and about a year of medication before I'm 100%. 

I am reading/watching everything - just too run down to post too much. 

Again best wishes on the recovery. A year to get back to feeling normal? Wow.

abacomike

28firefighter said:

I'm still here. I've been discharged from the ICU and am on a regular med floor. The hope is to finish the IV course of medications tomorrow and be out of here by Friday or Saturday.  It's going to be about 4-6 weeks of recovery time to get me mostly back to normal and about a year of medication before I'm 100%. 

I am reading/watching everything - just too run down to post too much. 

Great news, FF.  Have they determined how you contracted this bug?  The research I did showed it can stem from bat feces or rodent feces.  Been out at night with the vampires, FF?