Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

abacomike

andres3 said:

imidazol97 said:

I was driving home from shopping earlier this morning on the circular drive that circumnavigates my condo community and as I was passing some utility work being done to my right traveling at about 25 mph, I heard an alert sound in my car and the car abruptly stopped.  It was so quick and abrupt that my body was thrust forward.  The car did not slowly brake to a stop - it clanked and just fully stopped the car from 25 mph to 0 mph in less than a second!  My right shoulder still hurts.

Obviously, the car sensed an imminent collision and went into autonomous mode.  But the road was clear - it was sensing a dirt mover way on my right moving toward the road.  I don’t think I like that maneuver or accident avoidance system.  I mean the car just abruptly locked brakes and stopped while sounding the alert.

Nasty!

Document your injury with a doctor visit and sue the manufacturer.

This was not a positive experience - there was no collision imminent.  This is an example of a safety feature improperly activating.  If there was a car tailing me, it would have collided with my rear end. Quite frankly, it shook me up pretty good - emotionally and physically.

This is why I don't want autonomous nanny features in any car I drive if I can be blamed for a blemish on my pristine driving record from it. I doubt you'd be able to convince anyone you were not at fault if your car caused an at-fault collision.

Andres, think about what you just said!  When an accident avoidance system is activated in a car, it is recorded as an event in the car’s computer data system.  All that would have to be done to prove you were not at fault is to have the codes downloaded from the event recorder.  The technician would only have to attest to the fact that the codes indicate that the car autonomously stopped the vehicle.  How do you think the Lexus inadvertent acceleration accidents were determined?

imidazol97

abacomike said:

This was not a positive experience - there was no collision imminent.  This is an example of a safety feature improperly activating.  If there was a car tailing me, it would have collided with my rear end.

My Malibu preps for hard braking as it gives an audible and visual warning in the heads up display. I occasionally get that at 25 mph on a curve to the left on a residential street when a car is parked ahead of me but I'm curving left. If I had auto-braking, it probably would apply the brakes to stop.

I also get a warning occasionally on I75 as I go on an overpass. The road curves up slightly and if I'm in the middle lane, I'll get the lights and beeping. Thank God it doesn't slam on the brakes in the middle of what's usually heavy truck traffic on I75.

I had thought I wanted auto braking at speed as well as low speed, which is available on 16 and later Malibus. But maybe I don't.

I do know that I have my danger detector on high sensitivity for earliest warning. I assume that a full braking system doesn't not have that adjustment. Or does yours have an adjustment for sensitivity.

andres3

tjc78 said:

@fintail
Its funny here we all have all cars we know really well

@roadburner is our BMW expert
@andres3; Audi
@explorerx4; Ford
@andre1969, Chrysler 

I am certainly the resident Panther expert... kind of a guilty pleasure.   Grew up with them and will always love all the varients.  

I'm not sure I'm in the same league in regards to Audi as those other guys are with their favored brands. Maybe from 2006 onward. I certainly don't really know all that much about the earlier models though. I know the B5 S4 is a cult favorite, but also drains bank accounts.

I know the V8 S4's have an extremely expensive timing belt/chain? service, which is made even more extremely expensive if you fail to do it, and end up paying for the consequences of that. Sort of like a ticking time bomb.

I do like the early coupe quattro's.

andres3

abacomike said:

andres3 said:

abacomike said:

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

I was driving home from shopping earlier this morning on the circular drive that circumnavigates my condo community and as I was passing some utility work being done to my right traveling at about 25 mph, I heard an alert sound in my car and the car abruptly stopped.  It was so quick and abrupt that my body was thrust forward.  The car did not slowly brake to a stop - it clanked and just fully stopped the car from 25 mph to 0 mph in less than a second!  My right shoulder still hurts.

Obviously, the car sensed an imminent collision and went into autonomous mode.  But the road was clear - it was sensing a dirt mover way on my right moving toward the road.  I don’t think I like that maneuver or accident avoidance system.  I mean the car just abruptly locked brakes and stopped while sounding the alert.

Nasty!

Document your injury with a doctor visit and sue the manufacturer.

This was not a positive experience - there was no collision imminent.  This is an example of a safety feature improperly activating.  If there was a car tailing me, it would have collided with my rear end. Quite frankly, it shook me up pretty good - emotionally and physically.

This is why I don't want autonomous nanny features in any car I drive if I can be blamed for a blemish on my pristine driving record from it. I doubt you'd be able to convince anyone you were not at fault if your car caused an at-fault collision.

Andres, think about what you just said!  When an accident avoidance system is activated in a car, it is recorded as an event in the car’s computer data system.  All that would have to be done to prove you were not at fault is to have the codes downloaded from the event recorder.  The technician would only have to attest to the fact that the codes indicate that the car autonomously stopped the vehicle.  How do you think the Lexus inadvertent acceleration accidents were determined?

Lexus Cases: All by settlement because from what I understand there was no concrete evidence of inadvertent acceleration other than when a the pedal was depressed by a foreign object (or floor mat).

I know in my Owner's manual it tells me I as the driver am ultimately responsible and liable for my systems. I don't have active safety systems though. Mine are passive, like the blind spot monitoring. If I make an unsafe lane change and sideswipe someone, I know the manual would work against my case if I tried to argue the car was at fault because the indicator wasn't lit!

andres3

abacomike said:

tjc78 said:

@fintail
Its funny here we all have all cars we know really well

@roadburner is our BMW expert
@andres3; Audi
@explorerx4; Ford
@andre1969, Chrysler 

I am certainly the resident Panther expert... kind of a guilty pleasure.   Grew up with them and will always love all the varients.  

After owning and leasing 15 Mercedes Benz vehicles over the past 30 years and 30+ GM vehicle’s over my lifetime, with a spattering of 6 BMW’s, 3 Audi’s, 1 Infiniti, and 5 Lexus’s, I have become a maven when it comes to cars I want to stay away from.  

I have have had two BMW lemons, two Audi lemons, one Mercedes lemon and four GM lemons during my lifetime but have noticed a general improvement in the quality of automobiles over the past 10 years - with Takata airbag defects not included.




I know you've bought a lot of cars, but that's a lot of lemons for one person to have suffered! Then again, if your only keeping them 1 year you don't suffer all that much!

abacomike

The Lexus that accelerated in California with the police officer behind the wheel that killed all passengers in the car including the driver had data pulled showing inadvertent sudden acceleration.  

Andres, I apologize for bringing this up - what the heck was I thinking about - I’m the idiot here. 

driver100

houdini1 said:

xwesx said:

iluvmysephia1 said:

Anyone seen or heard from our longtime friend stever?

Not a peep. I'm curious where he went!

I think he may have moved to Canada after President Trump got elected.

Lots of people said they were going to do that....they always do...not too many follow through....and it isn't as easy as it sounds.

andres3

houdini1 said:

fintail said:

That 240D was probably perfect back in the days of dopey 55 limits and malaise cars. Built like a vault, amazing mileage for the era, and high speeds weren't a big issue.

US west-coasters are somewhat lucky when it comes to MB dealers - lots of them out here, especially in CA, so there is competition. The Seattle metro area even has 4 now, which doesn't hurt.

houdini1 said:

I have owned 2 MB's over the years. A 1990 190E that primarily my wife drove. It was OK and drove like a much bigger car. My fav was a 1978 240D that was awesome. It would have felt under powered to most, but it was fine for the mostly hiway driving that I did. Would hit 90 with ease and cruise beautifully at 80, while getting over 30 mpg. Solid as a rock. Never a problem or a squeak or rattle. Miles ahead of other cars of that day. Nearly bought a 2011 E Class diesel a few years ago, really liked it, but dealer was trying to rob me on trade in so had to walk.

Thankfully, by the time of my 240D the double nickel speed limit was long gone. But I still remember around 74 or 75, took a business trip with my boss driving. Okla. City to Woodward Ok. and back. Probably around 300 miles round trip. My boss was in his 60's and drove at 55 the entire trip on almost deserted hiways. I was in agony. No laptops or smart phones in those days, you just had to sit and take it.

If you move your head up high and right up to the side window, and look as straight down as you can, the ground might actually appear to be moving fast, even at 55.

driver100

fintail said:

Hello there:



I like the 56 Chevy most out of the tri five years.

imidazol97 said:

Can't argue with that but the 57 Chev is not my ideal. A 58 or a 56/55 is better for me. I liked some of the Pontiacs a lot from that same era.

Let me throw flame on the gasoline (as if most things would stop me): compare the Buick and Oldsmobiles show here with some of the front ends of the supposed premium Toyotas like the Lexus model suv. Imagine if the toyota grill were all chrome and it was 1958 again... Hmmmmmm.

I will never understand why someone would buy one of those 59 Plymouths when Fords and pontiacs and though the Chev wasn;t one of the best years...it looked better than those homely Plymouths.
I also wouldn't buy the Lexus based on it's looks, maybe its dependability and comfort. A guy I know traded in his 8 year old Lexus RX for a new one...but, he said, he liked the design of his old one more....and I would agree.

driver100

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

Going faster would have placed the Volvo past the point of this incident when it occurred. Sample of 1. It is just another example. My own collision with the Lexus was similar. I wasn't speeding, but had I been, perhaps (likely) I could have avoided it. It was just being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't believe this. In a previous post responding to imidazol97 you said "Still, I think if the Volvo was going 5 MPH less, the collision would have still taken place." So going slower would have still caused the accident but going faster would have avoided it?

Yes time and space, if going faster would put you past her when she crossed the street going slower would have put you far enough in front of her for her to cross before you got there. That is unless you think she would have stopped in the middle of the street to wait for you.

All this is is just an excuse to justify your speeding.

You are taking things out of context, and I think deliberately.

I mentioned it would take a slightly higher speed over a bit of time to ensure you were past the point of the collision at the time of the collision.

I'm saying 5 MPH less at just the instance of where the lady was noticed in the video camera would not have made a difference. Certainly 5 MPH less over a few seconds would make a difference. However, if the time was the same (all other things being equal), 5 MPH less would not have prevented this. I don't see how you can argue this, as it doesn't appear the autonomous programming nor the human back up driver made any steering or braking inputs until after impact anyway.

I am? you did say that going 5 MPH slower the crash would still have happened, that's it's context. But you in a different post claimed that an increase of 5 MPH would have avoided it. if going 5 MPH faster would put you past that point when the lady crossed then going 5 MPH slower would put you before that point at the same time.

I said 5 MPH faster over a period of time would have prevented it. Not an instantaneous 5 MPH increase just before impact. That's the context.

So when I say 5 MPH slower would not have prevented it, I do mean an instantaneous 5 MPH decrease. For sure, 5 MPH slower over a period of time would have also avoided the situation.

Say what!

andres3

abacomike said:

The Lexus that accelerated in California with the police officer behind the wheel that killed all passengers in the car including the driver had data pulled showing inadvertent sudden acceleration.  

Andres, I apologize for bringing this up - what the heck was I thinking about - I’m the idiot here. 

that particular case happened right near where I live. It was blamed on the off-brand floor mats in the car. I suppose that is inadvertent acceleration. Nothing putting it into neutral wouldn't have solved.

tbirdmarco

 Yes stick guy hopefully the new RDX will be at dealers next time you go for the next service on your current ride 

tbirdmarco

 Anyone going to the auto show who lives in the area think I’m going on Friday in the late afternoon 

driver100

houdini1 said:

ab348 said:

imidazol97 said:

I saw a good personalized license plate yesterday on a VA car traveling through on I70 here in the Heartland.

Subara WRX in the omnipresent dark blue: T WREX

I thought this story in Automotive News had a very clever headline:

Lexus' tyrannosaurus LX still roams the Earth

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180326/OEM03/180329809/lexus-tyrannosaurus-lx-still-roams-the-earth

I may be the only Neanderthal (yes, I know they didn't co-exist) here who owns one of these babies. It's our 3rd one and my wife and I think these dinos are great. My wife is the primary driver, and I think most people would be shocked at how well these things ride and handle. I think their dimensions are actually less than a Tahoe. If you ever get the chance, take one for a spin. For our model years the grill hadn't quite gone over the edge like they have now.

Houdini...I don't think they were criticizing the 2013 model. They are criticizing the 2018 model because it hasn't changed much. Yours looks better than the new one;

driver100

thebean said:

isellhondas said:

cdnpinhead said:

Markcincinnati was the hands-down Audi authority for many years around here, but he's gone the way of Richard, sadly. Another guy I miss had by far the best handle ever, BloV8er -- he was a Cadillac person. Shipo knew a lot about BMWs. There have been a lot of interesting people pass through here.

I was thinking about all of the posters who have come and gone. Many were frequent posters with a lot of quality input and a lot of knowledge...

And then there is @jmonroe.

He just keeps rolling along...........

driver100

explorerx4 said:

@driver100,
I can see why you like that truck posted by car naught. It does resemble a GLK.

Square and boxy...just like I like them.....and with big windows.

jmonroe

abacomike said:

The Lexus that accelerated in California with the police officer behind the wheel that killed all passengers in the car including the driver had data pulled showing inadvertent sudden acceleration.  

Andres, I apologize for bringing this up - what the heck was I thinking about - I’m the idiot here. 

Don't be so hard on yourself. See if our poster buddy @dino001 has any aspirin left in that bottle I suggested that he go fetch a day or two ago.

jmonroe

fintail

Probably a decent deal, assuming it had no issues. Those stickered north of 20K I believe, and MB had amazing resale.

houdini1 said:

It's been a few years ago, but I think I paid about $9,000./$10,000. for it from a private party.

fintail

61 Plymouth, and I swear Toyolex designers use it for inspiration. 1961 had a lot of odd one year only designs and trim styles in general, but Mopar was probably the wackiest, and by far.

For a smooth reliable cruiser, you probably can't go wrong with most Lexus, they also look better from the inside.

driver100 said:

I will never understand why someone would buy one of those 59 Plymouths when Fords and pontiacs and though the Chev wasn;t one of the best years...it looked better than those homely Plymouths.
I also wouldn't buy the Lexus based on it's looks, maybe its dependability and comfort. A guy I know traded in his 8 year old Lexus RX for a new one...but, he said, he liked the design of his old one more....and I would agree.

fintail

Easiest way, be rich . Virtually no questions asked, residency is for sale everywhere.

driver100 said:

Lots of people said they were going to do that....they always do...not too many follow through....and it isn't as easy as it sounds.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

I'll take the Plymouth as the styling winner here. I've seen this comparison before. Maybe it's the generation gap, but I recall the styling efforts Chrysler made using studios in Italy, e.g., to help their efforts. I remember the styling models that went down on the Andrea Doris.

With Chrysler's styling, the lines do something. The curved line over the top ends up horizontal pointing into the headlights. The pieces of the styling each serve a purpose. As Dr. Goldstein said to our group in Art Appreciation 101, the item should look like what it is. His prime example was the hula lamps: is it a lamp or is it an entertainment novelty--probably before the time of some here.



In the Toyota, the styling is just angry bird--it looks like a comic book cover for comics I never would read.
The toyota has all this black plastic grid. Cheap looking. Cheap to make.

Your experience may vary.

andres3

fintail said:

I think you hit on something in a way. I believe most drivers don't want to have to be attentive. They don't want to be forced to take it seriously, don't want to pay attention, don't want to put forth an effort, don't really enjoy driving. To a lot of people, driving is likely up there with scrubbing the toilet or folding laundry. They get upset when asked to do things properly.

I think part of that is why I can be irked driving here - I can be hyper attentive, and without so much to focus on due to artificially low limits and plodding traffic, the dopey little errors catch my eye. If I drive in a place where people are expected to take it seriously, are better trained, and drive with a little more purpose, I don't become nearly as annoyed. I find driving in Germany, where most take it seriously, most expect competency, and distracted driving a social faux pas as much as being illegal, to be more enjoyable than many places here. I think many locals would be eaten alive on the roads away from the US and Canada.

andres3 said:

Yes. And in my calculations, the increased risk of going faster pales in comparison to the decreased risk of less time-exposure to morons and acts of God on the roadway.

It works for Germany, it works for me.

4) Not for everyone, but for me, less stress. For some people, going faster is stressful. Going slower is stressful to me.
5) And of course, more time to enjoy your destination.

There is a lot to that. Might people be more content with rolling down the freeway at 5 to 10 MPH because they can have one eye in Facebook and one eye on the road ahead? Maybe a woman feels more comfortable putting on makeup while driving at 25-35 MPH down the freeway then at 75 MPH.

My recent favorite spotting. A woman clearly engaging in what appeared to be a lively and animated "FACE TIME" call while driving. Only it was OK because she put the phone in a position where it was like a HEADS UP DISPLAY. High up, and in front of the windshield. where she should be looking anyway Almost thought she was taking a selfie at first the way she was holding it at arm's outstretched length!

At least she's an HONEST cell phone driver! Most have eyes looking down with the phone out of LEO sight-lines

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PQd2eO-niNw

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=URQufIwB2lI

roadburner

abacomike said:

The Lexus that accelerated in California with the police officer behind the wheel that killed all passengers in the car including the driver had data pulled showing inadvertent sudden acceleration.  

Andres, I apologize for bringing this up - what the heck was I thinking about - I’m the idiot here. 

I still think that user error was involved in that situation. The car could have been turned off or put in neutral/

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

This was not a positive experience - there was no collision imminent.  This is an example of a safety feature improperly activating.  If there was a car tailing me, it would have collided with my rear end.

My Malibu preps for hard braking as it gives an audible and visual warning in the heads up display. I occasionally get that at 25 mph on a curve to the left on a residential street when a car is parked ahead of me but I'm curving left. If I had auto-braking, it probably would apply the brakes to stop. I also get a warning occasionally on I75 as I go on an overpass. The road curves up slightly and if I'm in the middle lane, I'll get the lights and beeping. Thank God it doesn't slam on the brakes in the middle of what's usually heavy truck traffic on I75. I had thought I wanted auto braking at speed as well as low speed, which is available on 16 and later Malibus. But maybe I don't. I do know that I have my danger detector on high sensitivity for earliest warning. I assume that a full braking system doesn't not have that adjustment. Or does yours have an adjustment for sensitivity.

If it does, I have not had the opportunity to adjust the sensitivity.  One of these days, i’ll Have to check.  Some of the other safety tech features can be adjusted - lane departure and blind spot monitors have adjustments.  I also believe some of these features can be turned off - I doubt the accident prevention system can be turned off.

ab348

Two of our bigger idiots on city council today got up on their hind legs and started advocating for photo radar and red light cameras as the panacea to our traffic problems. Of course the only traffic problems we really have are people stuck in traffic because no road expansion of any meaningful sort has happened in about 50 years. They are making the usual arguments that it isn't a cash grab, and that if you obey the laws you have nothing to worry about. Even more concerning, a number of people seem to agree with them. These are the same two morons who have spearheaded a huge expansion of bike lanes here that takes away curbside parking and vehicle lanes despite no cyclists ever seeming to use them because our weather 8 months of the year is terrible for cycling.

I think perhaps I should move.

qbrozen

roadburner said:

The Lexus that accelerated in California with the police officer behind the wheel that killed all passengers in the car including the driver had data pulled showing inadvertent sudden acceleration.  

Andres, I apologize for bringing this up - what the heck was I thinking about - I’m the idiot here. 

I still think that user error was involved in that situation. The car could have been turned off or put in neutral/

Or stepped on the brake pedal!

fintail

Many people just don't want to drive. I think it is that simple. On the other hand, some of us look forward to it - I am like a little kid at Christmas when I am handed the keys to a car in a fun to drive area. Being a little nervous about it just adds to it - you have to work at it, but the reward is worth it. Cruising around in that Jag back in November, in a place with fewer red lights and faster traffic overall, was unforgettable. Then I come home and plod from red light to red light on roads that look like we just had a war.

I've seen a guy using an electric shaver while "driving", and a woman eating out of a salad or cereal bowl while "driving". Thoughts and prayers for no airbag deployment.

andres3 said:

There is a lot to that. Might people be more content with rolling down the freeway at 5 to 10 MPH because they can have one eye in Facebook and one eye on the road ahead? Maybe a woman feels more comfortable putting on makeup while driving at 25-35 MPH down the freeway then at 75 MPH.

My recent favorite spotting. A woman clearly engaging in what appeared to be a lively and animated "FACE TIME" call while driving. Only it was OK because she put the phone in a position where it was like a HEADS UP DISPLAY. High up, and in front of the windshield. where she should be looking anyway Almost thought she was taking a selfie at first the way she was holding it at arm's outstretched length!

At least she's an HONEST cell phone driver! Most have eyes looking down with the phone out of LEO sight-lines

fintail

Someone should stand up to them and demand in no uncertain terms that they put up or shut up about the limits - prove the limits are optimal, or drop the cash grab. Get in their face and don't let them chicken out, I wonder if any of them will profit directly or indirectly from the revenue stream. I mean safety, it is all about safety, think of the children!

ab348 said:

Two of our bigger idiots on city council today got up on their hind legs and started advocating for photo radar and red light cameras as the panacea to our traffic problems. Of course the only traffic problems we really have are people stuck in traffic because no road expansion of any meaningful sort has happened in about 50 years. They are making the usual arguments that it isn't a cash grab, and that if you obey the laws you have nothing to worry about. Even more concerning, a number of people seem to agree with them. These are the same two morons who have spearheaded a huge expansion of bike lanes here that takes away curbside parking and vehicle lanes despite no cyclists ever seeming to use them because our weather 8 months of the year is terrible for cycling.

I think perhaps I should move.

fintail

It's the spindle grille. It almost looked like Toyolex cribbed it, in their initial overcompensating bid to make the cars look aggressive. Lexus was panned for some time for being beige and boring, and then over-compensated by putting 30 feet of styling on a 15 foot car. No doubt with the Plymouth, if that thing hit you, you'd be wearing an impression of it for life, where the Lexus grille would shatter like a plastic plate - I sincerely doubt it is metal.

Too many cars lately have faux-aggressive faces. Anthropomorphism in cars in general is dorky, IMO.

I know about hula lamps, I remember that from Mama's Family

imidazol97 said:

I'll take the Plymouth as the styling winner here. I've seen this comparison before. Maybe it's the generation gap, but I recall the styling efforts Chrysler made using studios in Italy, e.g., to help their efforts. I remember the styling models that went down on the Andrea Doris.

With Chrysler's styling, the lines do something. The curved line over the top ends up horizontal pointing into the headlights. The pieces of the styling each serve a purpose. As Dr. Goldstein said to our group in Art Appreciation 101, the item should look like what it is. His prime example was the hula lamps: is it a lamp or is it an entertainment novelty--probably before the time of some here.



In the Toyota, the styling is just angry bird--it looks like a comic book cover for comics I never would read.
The toyota has all this black plastic grid. Cheap looking. Cheap to make.

Your experience may vary.

stickguy

Fin, sounds like driving around here. Either interstates (in various states of disrepair), or local roads with too much traffic, and too many potholes and lights. rarely do I get off on something passing for a fun driving road where I can actually have fun. So a compliant suspension and comfy seats are pretty good things to shoot for.

The Elantra is a bit stiff (and sidewalls too skinny for comfort!) but around here, it has more handling and speed than I can usually use.

cdnpinhead

fintail said:

Lexus was panned for some time for being beige and boring, and then over-compensated by putting 30 feet of styling on a 15 foot car.

Well, you and I have had our moments of late, but that is an excellent turn of phrase. Well done!

driver100

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

I'll take the Plymouth as the styling winner here. I've seen this comparison before. Maybe it's the generation gap, but I recall the styling efforts Chrysler made using studios in Italy, e.g., to help their efforts. I remember the styling models that went down on the Andrea Doris.

With Chrysler's styling, the lines do something. The curved line over the top ends up horizontal pointing into the headlights. The pieces of the styling each serve a purpose. As Dr. Goldstein said to our group in Art Appreciation 101, the item should look like what it is. His prime example was the hula lamps: is it a lamp or is it an entertainment novelty--probably before the time of some here.

I love your analysis of the Plymouth and Lexus inid. I strongly believe things should look like what they are theory of art, and that Lexus looks like the shaving head of a new Braun electric shaver, or some kind of design from Star Wars. At least the Plymouth resembles a car.

Some of the Dodges from 61 had that reverse fin in the back;

driver100

ab348 said:

Two of our bigger idiots on city council today got up on their hind legs and started advocating for photo radar and red light cameras as the panacea to our traffic problems. Of course the only traffic problems we really have are people stuck in traffic because no road expansion of any meaningful sort has happened in about 50 years. They are making the usual arguments that it isn't a cash grab, and that if you obey the laws you have nothing to worry about. Even more concerning, a number of people seem to agree with them. These are the same two morons who have spearheaded a huge expansion of bike lanes here that takes away curbside parking and vehicle lanes despite no cyclists ever seeming to use them because our weather 8 months of the year is terrible for cycling.

I think perhaps I should move.

Lots of places are doing it. The revenue from red light cameras is big, and cities get used to it. The best way to prevent accidents at intersections with lights is to make long yellow lights, and a few second pause before cars get the green going across in the other direction.

Red light cameras have been shown to cause more rear end accidents.

abacomike

fintail said:

It's the spindle grille. It almost looked like Toyolex cribbed it, in their initial overcompensating bid to make the cars look aggressive. Lexus was panned for some time for being beige and boring, and then over-compensated by putting 30 feet of styling on a 15 foot car. No doubt with the Plymouth, if that thing hit you, you'd be wearing an impression of it for life, where the Lexus grille would shatter like a plastic plate - I sincerely doubt it is metal. Too many cars lately have faux-aggressive faces. Anthropomorphism in cars in general is dorky, IMO. I know about hula lamps, I remember that from Mama's Family

I'll take the Plymouth as the styling winner here. I've seen this comparison before. Maybe it's the generation gap, but I recall the styling efforts Chrysler made using studios in Italy, e.g., to help their efforts. I remember the styling models that went down on the Andrea Doris. With Chrysler's styling, the lines do something. The curved line over the top ends up horizontal pointing into the headlights. The pieces of the styling each serve a purpose. As Dr. Goldstein said to our group in Art Appreciation 101, the item should look like what it is. His prime example was the hula lamps: is it a lamp or is it an entertainment novelty--probably before the time of some here. In the Toyota, the styling is just angry bird--it looks like a comic book cover for comics I never would read. The toyota has all this black plastic grid. Cheap looking. Cheap to make. Your experience may vary.

When I was selling Lexus vehicles, there was one model that still has class and styling that is memorable - the LS430.  It was luxurious and rode and handled magnificently.  I admit it was a bit stoic looking, but I drove many of them and each one was as good as the first one I drove.

roadburner

ab348 said:

Two of our bigger idiots on city council today got up on their hind legs and started advocating for photo radar and red light cameras as the panacea to our traffic problems. Of course the only traffic problems we really have are people stuck in traffic because no road expansion of any meaningful sort has happened in about 50 years. They are making the usual arguments that it isn't a cash grab, and that if you obey the laws you have nothing to worry about. Even more concerning, a number of people seem to agree with them. These are the same two morons who have spearheaded a huge expansion of bike lanes here that takes away curbside parking and vehicle lanes despite no cyclists ever seeming to use them because our weather 8 months of the year is terrible for cycling.

I think perhaps I should move.

The Safety [non-permissible content removed] NEVER sleeps...

roadburner

qbrozen said:

roadburner said:

abacomike said:

The Lexus that accelerated in California with the police officer behind the wheel that killed all passengers in the car including the driver had data pulled showing inadvertent sudden acceleration.  

Andres, I apologize for bringing this up - what the heck was I thinking about - I’m the idiot here. 

I still think that user error was involved in that situation. The car could have been turned off or put in neutral/

Or stepped on the brake pedal!

I seem to remember that the "expert" driver burned the brakes up by trying to slow the car and not bring it to a stop.

fintail

The LS430 resembles the MB W140 (90s S-class), but will be easier to live with. A traditional barge, in a good way.

If I was (used) Lexus shopping, a LS or LX would be at the top of my list.

abacomike said:

When I was selling Lexus vehicles, there was one model that still has class and styling that is memorable - the LS430.  It was luxurious and rode and handled magnificently.  I admit it was a bit stoic looking, but I drove many of them and each one was as good as the first one I drove.

fintail

Tall sidewalls are more appealing with each new day. The less than first world quality roads here just aren't fun on large wheels and thin tires. I already dodge potholes and ruts and idiotically designed manholes/utility covers as it is - and I am in an area with a gentle climate. I see why people like trucks and SUVs.

I won't get started on the lights too much - my city actually tries most of the time, several surrounding cities just leave them on timers.

stickguy said:

Fin, sounds like driving around here. Either interstates (in various states of disrepair), or local roads with too much traffic, and too many potholes and lights. rarely do I get off on something passing for a fun driving road where I can actually have fun. So a compliant suspension and comfy seats are pretty good things to shoot for.

The Elantra is a bit stiff (and sidewalls too skinny for comfort!) but around here, it has more handling and speed than I can usually use.

fintail

Thanks, it just came to me

And no worries, I don't take anything personally here. People won't agree on everything 100% of the time.

cdnpinhead said:

fintail said:

Lexus was panned for some time for being beige and boring, and then over-compensated by putting 30 feet of styling on a 15 foot car.

Well, you and I have had our moments of late, but that is an excellent turn of phrase. Well done!

venture

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

This was not a positive experience - there was no collision imminent.  This is an example of a safety feature improperly activating.  If there was a car tailing me, it would have collided with my rear end.

My Malibu preps for hard braking as it gives an audible and visual warning in the heads up display. I occasionally get that at 25 mph on a curve to the left on a residential street when a car is parked ahead of me but I'm curving left. If I had auto-braking, it probably would apply the brakes to stop.

I also get a warning occasionally on I75 as I go on an overpass. The road curves up slightly and if I'm in the middle lane, I'll get the lights and beeping. Thank God it doesn't slam on the brakes in the middle of what's usually heavy truck traffic on I75.

I had thought I wanted auto braking at speed as well as low speed, which is available on 16 and later Malibus. But maybe I don't.

I do know that I have my danger detector on high sensitivity for earliest warning. I assume that a full braking system doesn't not have that adjustment. Or does yours have an adjustment for sensitivity.

My Legacy will occasionally warn about an obstruction ahead and once actually started applying the brakes. The offending vehicle moved out of the way and the brakes were released before the hard stop. I have to say that I have not had any false positives. It is not adjustable as far as I know.

The reverse braking has to be turned off when backing down my driveway. The angle between my driveway and the road is enough to make it slam on the brakes.

driver100

venture said:

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:

This was not a positive experience - there was no collision imminent.  This is an example of a safety feature improperly activating.  If there was a car tailing me, it would have collided with my rear end.

My Malibu preps for hard braking as it gives an audible and visual warning in the heads up display. I occasionally get that at 25 mph on a curve to the left on a residential street when a car is parked ahead of me but I'm curving left. If I had auto-braking, it probably would apply the brakes to stop.

I also get a warning occasionally on I75 as I go on an overpass. The road curves up slightly and if I'm in the middle lane, I'll get the lights and beeping. Thank God it doesn't slam on the brakes in the middle of what's usually heavy truck traffic on I75.

I had thought I wanted auto braking at speed as well as low speed, which is available on 16 and later Malibus. But maybe I don't.

I do know that I have my danger detector on high sensitivity for earliest warning. I assume that a full braking system doesn't not have that adjustment. Or does yours have an adjustment for sensitivity.

My Legacy will occasionally warn about an obstruction ahead and once actually started applying the brakes. The offending vehicle moved out of the way and the brakes were released before the hard stop. I have to say that I have not had any false positives. It is not adjustable as far as I know.

The reverse braking has to be turned off when backing down my driveway. The angle between my driveway and the road is enough to make it slam on the brakes.

It sounds like it is more trouble than it is worth. I would get pretty frustrated having to put up with that.....car stopping because of a curved driveway it can't read.

driver100

About that runaway lexus....not as easy to stop as it sounds;

Cutting off the engine: the ES 350. has a push-button start system, activated by the combination of a wireless electronic fob carried by the driver and a button on the dashboard.

But once the vehicle is moving, the engine will not shut off unless the button is held down for a full three seconds -- a period of time in which Saylor's car would have traveled 528 feet. A driver may push the button repeatedly, not knowing it requires a three-second hold.

"When you are dealing with an emergency, you can't wait three seconds for the car to respond at 120 miles an hour," said Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the nonprofit Center for Auto Safety.

The ES 350 Saylor was driving that day was a loaner provided to him by Bob Baker Lexus when he took his family's Lexus in for servicing. It's unclear whether Saylor's own car had the same feature or whether he was aware of the shutdown procedure. Bob Baker Lexus did not return calls.

Now i know, but I didn't know you had to press the button for 3 seconds.

Applying the brakes: The ES 350 and most other modern vehicles are equipped with power-assisted brakes, which operate by drawing vacuum power from the engine. But when an engine opens to full throttle, the vacuum drops, and after one or two pumps of the brake pedal the power assist feature disappears.

As a result, a driver would have to apply enormous pressure to the brake pedal to stop the car, and if the throttle was wide open might not be able to stop it at all, safety experts say.

Putting the car in neutral The other common defense tactic advised by experts is to simply shift a runaway vehicle into neutral. But the ES 350 is equipped with an automatic transmission that can mimic manual shifting, and its shift lever on the console has a series of gates and detents that allow a driver to select any of at least four forward gears.

The arrangement of those gear selections could make it difficult to shift from a forward gear directly into neutral in a panic situation, Toyota spokesman Lyons acknowledged.

"I think it's possible to get the shifter confused, but I can't be sure that's what happened" in San Diego, Lyons said. "You'd be surprised how many people around here [Toyota] don't know what the neutral position is for."
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Conclusion: It is easy for us to say what we would do, but, it is harder to react if a car takes off and is going 120 mph than it would seem.

stickguy

Wouldn’t have these issues with a manual. Any stick driver would know what to do.

driver100

stickguy said:

Wouldn’t have these issues with a manual. Any stick driver would know what to do.

Yeh stick....that would apply to about 4% of the cars on the road in the USA.

pensfan83

Is the start/stop button located on the center console in the Lexus? If so, I'm guessing the 3 second hold is to prevent someone from inadvertently stabbing that while trying to bring up their nav or changing the radio station and turning the car off while driving.

tbirdmarco

Wow nice  cars above

tbirdmarco

 Crazy I’m dealing with the crazy lives in the city council what you have to deal with in your new job nuts 

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FctbtTNJZKs